WordWolf

Are you sure that's NOT the reason she's pushing for him to show up?

Hello. A number of us also had relatively mild experiences in twi. Not everyone was publickly humiliated or assaulted or anything. The people who did those things were still wrong for doing them, even when it wasn't us they did them to. If all you're reading is posts in the "About the Way" forum, you're going to have a slanted view of people's posts here. If you think all we do in our lives is post here, you're going to have a slanted view of our lives. Even the regular posters here have lives outside this board, and those lives don't revolve around this board. We don't sit in dark corners dwelling on the evils done by twi. Perhaps reviewing the other forums in the board will give him a slightly better-balanced view. twi put forth that even THINKING criticism of twi was "thinking evil." We weren't even allowed to THINK for ourselves. Now that we can, honest, open criticism is refreshing, and vital. Not only that, but some people are eager to rewrite history, and pretend nothing bad ever happened. If we let them, they'd put forth a diet of lies that would leave more people to be hurt.

Can only go SO low. OPEC's planning on lowering production/supply, in order to increase the price/demand. Until we free ourselves of most of our need for foreign oil, this country will be at the mercy of OPEC.

I'm not sure. I've been following the thread since it began, whether or not I posted.

You did-except you dropped the "" at the end. Each change of the text needs a "[type of change]" at the beginning and a "[/type of change]" at the end. (Without quotation marks, of course.) So, I can manually add quotes by using the brackets and "quote". Please note that if I make the slightest error with the markers, the quotes, the boldface, whatever, won't format. If it's not closed perfectly, or not opened perfectly, the effect doesn't appear at all.

That, BTW, was common for both vpw AND lcm. Corps Week was when the Corps got together, and was when the Corps did the set-up and assembly of all the physical details needed for the ROA. (Setting up Registration, the tents, Family Tables, food stands...) So, these Corps did setup and met together, then went home. They worked for free for the week preceding ROA. Some people went back home as soon as it was over, and didn't stay a SECOND week to work for free again. "Dr heard about it and reproved everyone in the corps household for the problem, for not helping to put it on." Setting up all that stuff doesn't count as "helping to put it on"? That was a week's free labour! "Reproved" them? He should have THANKED them for the free labour! After all, there WAS an admission, we DID PAY for setup, so things COULD have been done with local workers, providing work for labourers locally. Of course, that would mean vpw would have to accept seeing money exit. What was his lame excuse? "He reminded everyone of the commitments that they had made regarding a lifetime of Christian service." They served a week of hard labour. What about that? Further, when did "a lifetime of Christian service" become synonymous with "involuntary servitude for life at the whims of twi"? I don't remember MANDATORY ROA attendance being required in the corps signups-did anyone sign such a document? "Every corps person needs to plan ahead one year or more so that they can be a part of these events. They need to be able to be a part of ROA and corps fellowship." It occasionally came as a surprise to those people who never actually WORKED for a living (vpw went straight from school into pastoring, lcm went straight from school into the way corps), but REAL jobs have REQUIREMENTS and RESPONSIBILITIES. All these people made arrangements for a VACATION WEEK from work (for some of them, this was their ONLY vacation, or was unpaid leave), paid to travel to hq on their own from all over the country, and WORKED for a week, unpaid. Now you have the nerve to say "Not good enough-work MORE for free!" NO! These people have families to support, jobs to perform, and lives to maintain. If they leave, it's because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to, simp! At the very least, you owed them profound thanks. To insult them after they worked for free is lacking in character, lacking in integrity, and lacking in Christian values. So, to you who said this, I say "F* you, AND the motorcycle you rode in on!!!!" Or, as Andy Kaufman once said, " You, sir, are a f*ing @$$h*, a F*ing @$$h*, a F*ING @$$H*!!!! "

Hm. Took me a while to get back in and post. Sluggish server on site. Oh, well. Now, the reason I posted that story.... So, someone might be deliberately or accidentally obtuse and say "Skippy was annoyed at how much money a pie costs!" but he was rather clear that wasn't the REAL issue.

Here's a different story that has no connection to twi. ========================== his story is specifically why people I know thought I should keep writing stuff. It never made it to my list, because I never received any orders governing it. Early on in my military career, way back when I was a PFC, my Battalion would occasionally have “Fun Runs”. A Fun Run is just like running for several miles. Except that it’s fun. Because people that outrank you say so. This is pretty much the Army equivalent to declaring “Our office is so much fun! On Friday we get to wear Hawaiian shirts!” It’s awesome if you happen to love Hawaiian shirts, but just kinda sucks if you have taste. One of the features of the Fun Run was that afterward the Battalion would gather together and hold a pie auction. The point of the pie auction was that if you bought a pie, you could pick any soldier who was present, and hit them with the pie. So as you can imagine, an awful lot of repressed rage got transferred into pie kinetics after these runs. The important thing to know here is that by tradition, the first pie always got thrown at the Battalion Commander. This whole exercise was to raise money for the Battalion Family Support Group. In theory, this was an organization that would help the families of deployed soldiers manage during the long separations that military life often inflicts. But in reality, FSG was more like a cross between the homeowners association from a sit-com, and a social club for unemployable wives of military officers. And when I say social club, imagine the kind that gets taken down a peg by a scrappy band of misfits in an 80’s comedy movie. To sum this up: the Family Support Group was not very popular with most of the soldiers. The night before one of these delightful Fun Runs, I received special instructions. “Bring in a pie for the auction.” I’m not sure how much the pay has gone up, but back in those days if a Private First Class had a child he automatically qualified for food stamps. So I didn’t have much money. And most of what I did have was generally earmarked for important things, like strippers and alcohol, and more strippers. A pie doesn’t cost that much I guess. But it was the principle that bothered me. The Army has billions of dollars and I have barely any. And now they want me to buy stuff for them. Now technically, it wasn’t an order. It would be against regulations for my supervisor to *order* me to spend my own money on the Family Support Group. It was just, technically, a suggestion. And it’s just peachy to make suggestions. And if soldiers choose not to follow the suggestions, well, someone has to be assigned to that toilet cleaning detail. So that night, I went out and I bought a premade pie crust. And a tub of Cool Whip. And then I stopped by a Korean grocery store and purchased a whole, frozen squid. And sprinkles. I got back to the barracks, and started the preparations for the morning. Which pretty much just means I started thawing the squid in a shower stall. My roommate was a bit surprised when he got back. “Is that a squid in our shower?” “Yep.” “What’s it doing in there.” “Thawing.” “Goodnight.” The next morning I packed it all in a cooler, and set out for the Fun Run. After about three miles of fun the Battalion gathered for the auction. I quickly assembled the secret weapon, and added it to the pie table. I then notified the auctioneer about my special pie. Of course she selected my pie for the first auction. The bidding started fairly briskly, as many people wanted to hit our Commander with a pie. But soon enough bidding started to peter out, and that’s when the auctioneer let everyone in on the secret. “This is a special pie.” “What’s so special about it?” called someone in the crowd. “It’s a squid pie.” “I beg your pardon?” said the Commander “I said it’s a squid pie sir.” “There’s no such thing.” So she reached in, pulled out a tentacle, and waved at the Commander with it. “WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?” asked the Commander with, all things considered, a reasonable tone of voice. “It’s a tentacle sir.” “PIE DOESN’T HAVE TENTACLES!” “Normally you’d be correct. But this is a squid pie sir.” And the bidding immediately picked up again. My pie raised close to five hundred dollars, which was a new record for the pie auction. I didn’t get into any trouble because nobody wanted to look like a bad sport. And I got to watch my CO take a high velocity mollusk to the kisser, which is a good morning no matter what branch of the military you are in. ==================================

Actually, $200 was maybe a whole year. It went up from $100 to $200, then back to $100. The reason it was doubled- the claim was "it's worth thousands, so it's actually a deal at $200" but the unspoken reason was that the price was raised as long as people could be found to pay the higher price. $100 was outrageous, but $200 was a transparent grab for money. (No, the $200 class didn't offer any more books than the $100. The $85 class offered a few books that-retail- weren't worth the difference between the $45 class and the $85 class. At least that was a PRETENSE at justifying the increased pricetag. A lie, but at least an ATTEMPT to make it sound reasonable. Since $200 didn't work, the price came down to $100. And that came down eventually as all the suckers who were willing to pay $100 were already sold. See, Adam Smith's "invisible hand" determined the price of pfal. There's price, and demand. As the price went up, demand went down- fewer people were willing to pay $85 or $100 rather than $40 or $45. As the price came back down, demand went up- more people are willing to pay $45 for a Bible class than $85. Offering it at $40 and $45 were smarter in the long run-since it meant twi caught more pigeons they could then convince to give up 10% of their income.

Ultimately, the only PROFESSIONAL contribution that could come from anyone "on the field" was whatever they HAD to offer. The only thing vpw was willing to spend any money on to guarantee a PROFESSIONAL level (as opposed to just putting out the minimum amount of money to get something done) was DALE CARNEGIE SALES COURSES. That's right- the only PROFESSIONAL training the Corps ever got was DALE CARNEGIE SALES COURSES. Nothing on counseling, or any subject that was actually covered IN the Corps- only HOW TO SELL A PRODUCT. What is the reason someone's expenses prioritize HOW TO SELL A PRODUCT? Right- their primary interest is in SELLING A PRODUCT. What is the reason someone prioritizes SELLING A PRODUCT? Right-their primary interest is in MAKING MONEY. That makes sense for a business, but not a supposed "ministry", something to supposedly "serve God." "Freely have you received- freely give." I didn't see EITHER at twi- receiving cost $$ for each class, and each event. "Giving" was the same.

I'm confident you didn't mean it QUITE the way that sounded. Care to explain or rephrase that comment? I think that would certainly sit better with a lot of people. Certainly, when certain people *coughJALcough* communicate with us, it's generally both INDIRECT ("I imagine this will somehow find its way online") and an ADVERTISEMENT ("check out our website and buy our books and tapes"), and then he vanishes, communicating only when HE can control the venue- thus, the microphone and the rules. Communicating HERE (or, to the point, on "neutral ground" when he's not in charge and can't just insist something be closed, deleted, etc when he wants) is something he gave up on a long time ago. Certainly, continuing to post- without making each post a "buy my stuff" post- is a positive step. Continuing open dialogue is another positive step.

Of course, this applies generally to any number of problems. Therapists who lack experience with recovery from any problem will lack an understanding of it, and will be limited in what they can say-at least, what they say that can actually be of use. Often, word-of-mouth is the best way to find a therapist, when someone who needs help finds a therapist who helped someone else.

BTW, vpw himself taught this "practical error leads to doctrinal error." At least some of the time, he said it when covering the spread of the Church Epistles. He said that the "doctrinal" Epistles gave doctrine, and then the "reproof" Epistles addressed practical error for failing to adhere to the doctrine. Then, if people failed to heed the warnings, and continued to perform practical error, people then make a doctrine of it, and the "correction" Epistles address the correctional error for failing to heed the warnings and need correction. When I heard it, he was addressing the subject at the end of pfal.

Having looked at the information we've collected on both men, I think there's a HUGE difference between vpw's style and lcm's style. vpw, from the beginning, KNEW he was lying, KNEW he was a fraud. So, he deliberately started out using DECEPTION as his method to get people to listen to him, to pay him to teach, to think of him as "The Teacher" and other things. He knew when to back off and went to lay it on thick- since it was all illusion and deception. lcm started out actually wanting answers and wanting to do good. His time working under vpw was time vpw indoctrinated him with his own beliefs- the lockbox, the droit de seigneur, and so on. lcm originally WANTED to do the right thing, but years looking to vpw as the source of answers, of internalizing vpw's deceptions, warped his method of thinking. When lcm was in charge, he actually THOUGHT he was doing the right things, what God was ok with. lcm was completely in over his head when he actually TRIED to do the right thing. He had training in the WRONG thing, but thought it was the right thing. Small wonder, then, that he had some sort of breakdown, and his wife and Rivenbark ended up running everything and telling him it was all going to be all right. Did this work for him? Hardly. He got a neurotic complex about THAT, too. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...vagina-fix.html "......while at the same time sucking his thumb in a fetal position being told everything will be alright, just leave it to me. " lcm's own fears and neuroses writ large. This is right out of Sigmund Freud's silly "castration anxiety" ideas. No sensible Psychologist has considered it for the past CENTURY. As a student who had to hear it in college (he got his Bachelors in Psych), he heard this. As a major dipstick, he didn't dismiss it, but actually used it as some sort of answer for the feelings he had. (He did reformulate it a bit, since the classic version doesn't support his ridiculous ideas, but what else is new?) Besides, at the time he was saying this, he WAS effectively the puppet of women- Donna and Rosa-lie-- letting them make all the decisions, and arrange for him to get food and sex- not from either of THEM, of course, but they arranged for others to provide both. This was lcm's own neuroses and inadequacies, writ large and extrapolated to refer to ALL men and women-and not just the dysfunctional ones causing the problem. (All 3 of them were/are sick, just in different ways, IMHO.)

First, you have to be logged in. Second, look at the bottom of their post. The post ITSELF will have a "reply" button, just like the thread does. Click on the POST's "reply" button, and your new post will automatically have their entire post quoted and ready for you to type after that. If you don't want to use the entire post, you can delete part. When you do that, it's strongly recommended you indicate you cut part of the post by putting something like (snip) where the text was. This lets people know there's more text in the original, and they can follow the back arrow on the quote to read it. As for "highlighting" something, you can put it in boldface, or in italics, or underline it. Do do any of those, add brackets before and after what you want changed, and put the letter for it in each side. At the beginning, put [x] and at the end, put [/x], with "x" being whichever letter you want. With 'b' in the brackets, this sentence is boldfaced. With 'i' in the brackets, this sentence is in italics. With 'w' in the brackets, this sentence is underlined. of course, you can use any combination, or all three.

For those of you who are unclear how basic this so-called "LAW" of believing is, I will document it a little. Right in pfal (and the accompanying orange book), we have this: "Orange Book, page 44. "What one fears will surely come to pass. It is a law. Have you ever heard about people who set the time of their death? When somebody says 'Well, this time next year I will not be here', if you are a betting man, bet your money, you are going to win. If a person makes up his mind that this time next year he is going to be dead, God would have to change the laws of the universe for the person not to be accomodated." In "The Bible Tells Me So" (the blue book), we have this: "Blue Book, page 43-44. "You may believe rightly or wrongly. Believing works both ways, and you bring to yourself whatever you believe." page 44. "Fear, worry and anxiety are types of believing. If you worry, have fear and are anxious you will receive the fruit of your negative believing which is defeat." Page 44. "The law of believing works equally effectively for both the sinner and the saint..." They say that your "believing" determines the things that happen to you, and can prevent bad things from happening to you. Of course, nobody in twi has been able to "believe" for winning a big lottery or anything....

Doesn't it strike anyone as mildly ironic that a man who taught a class about, and wrote a book about, membership in the Christian church and increasing numbers, is a man who oversaw a religious organization during a time when it lost over 80% of its members, reversing a steady trend of membership increases before he was in charge?

As much as I prefer Firefox, I have a problem with 3.0 slowing pc's when multiple tabs are open. The 2.x versions do NOT, and I happily use that.

I'm pretty sure it isn't. And if a guy wants to play baseball in his head, hey, it's ok. If he has access to a holodeck, and recordings and so on, he's "eccentric".

To a degree, I can see the sense in saying "people who paid SOMETHING will feel a personal stake in attending all sessions." To a degree, I can see the sense in recovering the costs of the textbooks. However, we were charged RETAIL for the textbooks, even at $40. Those of you with a few more books who were charged $100 or $200 were just shaken down for what money they could pry from you. It was all about pfal as a money-making venue. And the required reading? "Christians Should Be Prosperous", or Why I Should Give twi 10% of My Income. In my area, there was considerable compassion- but not from HQ. The rule was always "get them to sign up ASAP, and get their $40 ASAP." There were plenty of people who would help new students who were broke. One helped me-I didn't have a Bible of my own, and $40 was a LOT of money in high school. They gave me a new Bible at Session 1, out of their own pocket. (I returned the favor for students later. As they did, I never said "Oh, and I'll be giving you a new Bible", I just did it.) I know one person whose response to a virtual stranger was "You want to take pfal but don't have the money? I will pay the entire fee for you." And it wasn't out of personal motivation that I could find, since, AFAIK, they never met again after the offer, nor did they seem likely to. The generosity and compassion were always LOCAL, and UNOFFICIAL. The official story was always "get their money."

I always feel the need for this quote at this point... "First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me." - Hans Niemoller (translated)

vpw's been quoted, when asked why he picked lcm, as saying that the reason was that lcm always followed his orders, and never questioned him. I believe this was a true reason he did pick lcm.

Bingo. "the Die is Cast." The Cardassian Obsidian Order and the Romulan Tal Shiar teamed up to perform a "black ops" operation- a cloaked ship blitz to destroy the Founders' homeworld. The Founders found out early on, faked the homeworld, and encouraged the operation- only to have Jem'haddar fighters in the hundreds swarm the combined fleet. This ended them as a threat to the Founders. Odo was prevented from changing form, thus slowly dying as Garak tried to interrogate him. Odo said something at the end about wanting to return to the Great Link, then collapsed. Garak reported that he never broke. (Both Taim and the Romulans expected his interrogation.) Here's how the quotes came down... "Sounds like Wolf 359 all over again." The Defiant's crew, watching the Founders' force massacre the fleet the way the Borg massacred the Fed's fleet at Wolf 359. "Home, I want to go home!" "And you will, as soon as this is over I promise I will take you back to Deep Space 9." "No, not the station." Odo, dying, confessing a desire to return to the Great Link, to Garak. "Why are you helping us?" "Because no Changeling has ever harmed another." The "Romulan" (Changeling) who saved Odo's life. "He was literally speechless -- a rare event." "I remember wanting to invent charges of treason against him just so I didn't have to hear his voice again." "You would've done it, too, if I hadn't held you back. You had quite a vicious streak in those days." "I learned from the best." "No, no. You had a gift. I never met anyone else who relished a good interrogation as much as you did. Do you remember getting that confession out of Doctor Parmak?" "I never even touched him." "That was the beauty of it. You just sat there for -- what, three hours?" "Four." "And after four hours of watching you stare at him... he confessed." "I was good, wasn't I?" "You were brilliant. Afterwards, he just kept saying...'His eyes... his eyes...' " Taim and Garak, reminiscing. "No wonder the Romulans haven't conquered the galaxy. No one can stomach their cuisine." Taim, complaining about having to eat Romulan food while on one of their capital ships. "We can still defend ourselves. I didn't damage any of the ship's weapon systems or the engines. But without the cloak, we'll have to return to DS Nine." Eddington (did ANY of you ever trust him? I didn't), after he sabotaged the Defiant so it supposedly couldn't be used to defy orders and look for Odo. "This has nothing to do with my "friends" or my "feelings." I simply don't believe he has the information you want." Garak, saying further interrogation of Odo would be a waste of time. "Talk to me, Odo... tell me something -- anything! Lie if you have to! But say it -- now. Please." Garak, trying to find some pretext to end Odo's torture. "I want to take Odo back to Romulus for further study." The "Romulan", planning on getting Odo away. "Open fire." "The first barrage has hit the surface..." "Effect?" "Thirty percent of the planetary crust destroyed on opening volley... No change in lifeform readings." "What? That's impossible. Some of them had to be killed." The first clue the whole thing was a trap. "I'm afraid the fault, dear Tain, is not in our stars... but in ourselves." "What?" "Just something I learned from Doctor Bashir." Garak and Taim, realizing they'd been royally "had".

Here's what I got off the program's wikipedia page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pretender_(TV_series) "Series After the series was cancelled, it was picked up in syndication by Turner Network Television. Two telemovies – The Pretender 2001 and Island of the Haunted – were aired on TNT in 2001; in response to an outpouring of emails from fans, which prompted negotiations involving the show's creators and both NBC and TNT. Both movies ended with an unresolved cliffhanger. The creators of the show, Steven Long Mitchell and Craig W. Van Sickle stated in an interview on the French DVD of the telemovies that they have already written an ending and all they need is financing to produce the final Pretender telemovie.[citation needed] On February 27, 2007 a representative from the Turner Network Television announced they have no intention of financing any more Pretender movies Reruns of The Pretender have aired and still air in many countries worldwide." "Possible closure for the Pretender story On September 7th 2007 in an interview for their new miniseries Tin Man, creators Steven Long Mitchell and Craig W. Van Sickle stated "Our fans still clabber for the answers because we never closed The Pretender out. We will just say to them please be patient, it’s going to happen, hopefully soon." They also referred to it happening in relationship to "Strange Highway" Entertainment and that the story line would continue digitally on the web."

"Sounds like Wolf 359 all over again." "Home, I want to go home!" "And you will, as soon as this is over I promise I will take you back to Deep Space 9." "No, not the station." "Why are you helping us?" "Because no Changeling has ever harmed another." "He was literally speechless -- a rare event." "I remember wanting to invent charges of treason against him just so I didn't have to hear his voice again." "You would've done it, too, if I hadn't held you back. You had quite a vicious streak in those days." "I learned from the best." "No, no. You had a gift. I never met anyone else who relished a good interrogation as much as you did. Do you remember getting that confession out of Doctor Parmak?" "I never even touched him." "That was the beauty of it. You just sat there for -- what, three hours?" "Four." "And after four hours of watching you stare at him... he confessed." "I was good, wasn't I?" "You were brilliant. Afterwards, he just kept saying...'His eyes... his eyes...' " "No wonder the Romulans haven't conquered the galaxy. No one can stomach their cuisine." "We can still defend ourselves. I didn't damage any of the ship's weapon systems or the engines. But without the cloak, we'll have to return to DS Nine." "This has nothing to do with my "friends" or my "feelings." I simply don't believe he has the information you want." "Talk to me, Odo... tell me something -- anything! Lie if you have to! But say it -- now. Please." "I want to take Odo back to Romulus for further study." "Open fire." "The first barrage has hit the surface..." "Effect?" "Thirty percent of the planetary crust destroyed on opening volley... No change in lifeform readings." "What? That's impossible. Some of them had to be killed." "I'm afraid the fault, dear Tain, is not in our stars... but in ourselves." "What?" "Just something I learned from Doctor Bashir."