WordWolf

I beg to differ. Granted, he received it graciously, sent a very polite thank-you note, and, apparently, thought fairly highly of what we sent. I think it took a certain amount of maturity to do that. (He could have just lit a match and pretended we never sent it.) On the other hand, considering yourself a seasoned professional (like a PhD with a decade or more under his belt) and seeing some relative youngster unknowns (like undergrad college students) put together a refutation of one of your publications that exceeded the quality OF that publication can be quite a blow. It's human, and fallible, and I'd really be surprised if that didn't happen. I mean, he's not the ONLY experienced person who thought we couldn't have had the right of it at the time..... I'm thinking of the catchphrases we were presented with when we asked questions before sending it. (On the other hand, there were a few who knew we had something of substance from early on, and our ages did NOT refute that...)

Still got the draft version handy, and the more final one is around here SOMEWHERE. The substance was about the same in both. I might imagine 40 pages of refutation, covering ALL points, implications, and things that were muttered behind closed doors and later claimed by others (like the "Sarah" thing), I think, WOULD get someone's attention. I think the hit-and-a-half was not that it was so comprehensive, not that it answered EVERYTHING, not that it included the conclusions he SHOULD have drawn, not that it showed where the mistake was.... but that a couple of relative ciphers, guys with NO titles, whom he would view as relatively low on the scale with way corps 20-year longtimers around, produced that where HE did not. That HAD to sting, no matter HOW we tried to soften the blow. ============ Repeat after me: The phrase "What the Bible says God knows, He knows; what the Bible says God doesn't know, He doesn't know" conveys NO information, is an evasion, and is a NON-ANSWER meant to PREVENT discussion.

Also, please note that the ASKING price for books is not necessarily a price that people will EVER pay. Adam Smith's "invisible hand" dictates that supply and price determine DEMAND, which means that lower supplies will raise demand, if more people want copies than there are copies to be had. It also means that, if nobody wants to pay the price, the price should drop until a price is found that someone is willing to pay. (If I want to sell a copy of Harry Potter Book 6 for $1000, no one will buy it. So I drop the price to what they'll pay, which is something reasonable.) However, for some reason, rare books seem to be UNAFFECTED by Adam Smith's invisible hand. I was looking for a set of books. Books 1-20 were released in the US, and I have them. 21-28 had all been released in the UK, and were NEVER released in the US, AND are out-of-print. These are all PAPERBACKS released in the 90s. I put in an inquiry with a bookseller site. I figured they might ask something like 20 bucks or something for a paperback, maybe a little more. They wanted prices ranging between 120 and 200. POUNDS STERLING. That would translate to over $200 for the CHEAP one. And they were not "mint", "fresh-from-the-printers" copies. I laughed and deleted the e-mails. I figure if I ever need the cash, I can offer my set, if THAT's the kinds of offers floating around.... I think the name of the site was "Bartleby's".

There WERE more than a few people that bought his new thesis JUST because he said it. My first exposure to his new thesis was the direct result of someone who had a "duh, of course God's understanding isn't infinite!" view of things, which surprised me more than a bit. The documentation of his thesis was easy to refute, and showed that he didn't expose major stuff to others to see if it wasn't just the way he's seeing things now, as opposed to accurate and true. (This is where "peer review" comes in VERY handy.) By "easy to refute", I mean that the exact DOCTRINE was easy to refute from Scripture, and how he GOT there was easy to refute from Scripture. Hey, Raf, what do you think about the idea that you and I were the penultimate straw that broke the camel's back? (Which was NOT the idea at ALL at the time, but still.)

Every once in a while, I've seen someone drop a side-comment that vpw's dad (whom I call Old Man Wierwille for convenience) was abusive to vpw, all his brothers and all his sisters. What's the story here? (Those of you who know SOMETHING here, please chime in.)

Paw, I think, doesn't get enough recognition for what he's done. This place has made a HUGE difference in the lives of people, and has been a continual thorn in the side (the messenger of God) to buffet twi. Exposing the truth is worth the effort.

We saw the "ferret". We did not see "the amazing BOUNCING ferret." Plus, Ron right after that, concentrating to himself. "I want to fix that in my memory forever...the amazing bouncing ferret..." Divination class was also lots of fun.. Harry (doing his birth horoscope): "I've got two Neptunes here. That can't be right, can it?" Ron (imitating Sybill Trelawney): "Aaaaah...when two Neptunes appear in the sky, it is a sure sign that a midget in glasses is being born, Harry..." We missed Archie the wizard, who refused a Muggle suit.... And the scene I would have loved- picking up Harry by the Floo Network- when the Dursleys have BRICKED UP their fireplace... Or Percy explaining about how important his ministry job was, and why he had to keep checking his mail. "Yeah, someone might slip dragon dung in it again, eh, Perce?" said Fred. "That was a sample of fertilizer from Norway! It was nothing personal!" ("It was," Fred whispered to Harry. "We sent it.")

Here's a little of what I found so far: "..a Way 'inner-sanctum' initiation ceremony. Anybody ever go through that? I did. Wierwille conducted it as 'the grand wizard'. Yes, that's what he called himself. Various unidentified Corps in the black-hooded robes assisted. The proceedings were ostensibly tongue-in-cheek."

You "got sick and tired of being sick and tired". That's not uncommon around here. Your profile is showing the added stuff.A "sticky" is a topic on a messageboard that has been "stuck" to the top. Normally, threads/topics that are posted on most recently get bumped to the top. A "sticky" remains stuck on top so it's not lost. Usually, they're reserved for important instructions or announcements. One important piece of advice for messageboards is: "read the stickys BEFORE posting". That's why they're there. *looks* On this board, the official label is that the topic/thread was "pinned", which may make more sense to you. Here's a direct link to that thread. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=7913

In order, 1) trick question, they've discussed it, and it's your delusion, not ours 2) I wear Permanent Press, t-shirts, denim and flannel specifically to avoid ironing. 3) No, and trick question again. 4) No, and trick question again. 5) No, and this answer has been "no" for over 2 years now. We've been thru this before, many times. All things cyclical imply futility.

Every once in a while, someone posts about some sort of "secret initiation" or "secret ceremony" or something that some old-timers went thru. To those of us who never saw it, please explain it.

Greetings, "I Love Bagpipes." You must tell us if there's something you'd prefer we call you. For someone who's never posted anywhere, you're off to a good start. Your profile is nicely anonymous. Anyone trying to track you down would have to work hard to get ANYTHING, and sit and sit and try to piece together all your posts. :) I posted some introductory information that has been placed as a "sticky" at the top of this forum. I can't really improve on the advice there. *restrains himself from retyping the sticky* Enjoy your stay.

Man, he was RUTHLESS about making everyone money only go ONE-WAY, wasn't he? (I've always wondered what the "way" in the name referred to- now I know. The money only went ONE WAY- to HIM.) Any REAL Christian ministry would have covered gas at LEAST for themselves, and ASKED about room. (Unless it was truly BROKE, they would have paid for their own room and board.) The corps travelled in TRUCKS- not even a refurbished BUS or whatever. (VERY unsafe by modern standards, since there were no CHAIRS.) El Jodong Grande travels in TOWNCARS-that's towncarS, plural. What does God need with a TOWNCAR? I have one of vpw's newspaper articles that he wrote and PAID to have printed, where he explains WHY he's a cheap tipper, and gives a SPECIFIC EXAMPLE. (It's in the whole set.) Well, when it's SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY, then he's a generous tipper. When it's "his" money- which, no matter what he thought, was not HIS money, but rather the MINISTRY's MONEY- he was incredibly cheap. He didnt want to spend money if it meant he had less money in his hands... I'd never heard of the stuff, really, before reading here myself. SEVERAL BOTTLES? How many weeks was he staying? Was it really only a few DAYS? That sounds like MORE THAN ONE BOTTLE PER DAY. THAT practice sure changed eventually.

Out of curiousity, what was the "here Howard-take my jacket" thing? I've never heard of it.

Actually, it's an FOS thing. Well, General Grievous, we'll all take our chances. If I'm snout-to-nose with Jesus Christ himself, and he wants to discuss a particular class I took or a set of books I read, I'll probably be interested in what the opposition wants to discuss that week. God is well aware of this, too. He hasn't gotten around to destroying me for it yet, so you'll have to wait for it.

Oldies is OBVIOUSLY NOT an "innie". If Oldies was an innie, he'd be facing all the evidence of crap every day. From his comfy chair, Oldies is distant enough in time and space to speculate and weave a tale of events a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away... ...in those days, there was joy throughout the kingdom. Men were men, women were women, and bottles of Drambuie were bottles of Drambuie.

Guys, unless they fall off the face of the earth, whoever last correctly guessed a song is the next person to POST a song. So, if you want to post one, read, think hard, and try to guess. And no fair looking them up anywhere. Which means it's SHARON's turn, since she got the last one. My comment about inviting me in was about the end of the song... "Wolves are gathering 'round your door? Ask them in..." Go, Sharon!

But it was an improvement over the third movie losing the entire Marauders subplot when 60 seconds of exposition would have explained a lot... (Second challenge) "That sounded a bit like Percy singing. Maybe you have to attack him while he's in the shower, Harry." "Winky is seeing no one!" And, apparently, no one is seeing Winky. Both were trimmed out. Dobby should have been left in, even if only for a moment before the second challenge. Trimming out the match, mascots and weighing of the wands cut about 10 minutes or more fromthe film. This also cut out John Hurt reappearing as Ollivander, which was a disappointment to lose. No "spew", no Krum mangling Hermoninny's name. We also missed the "amazing bouncing ferret." We did get a few laughs with Snape during the asking-out stuff. We can hope, but I wouldn't put money on that one. I like sleuthing the series, so I have the WWP fan books, plus the actual series, and the companions- "Quidditch Through the Ages" and "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find them" which JKR wrote for charity. I'm a big enough fan to get a "S.P.E.W" button next chance I get, but not a big enough one to buy robes and a wand from Alivan's, either. But I'm guessing I know what's on your wish-list... :)

The least you can do is invite me in...

The title, as such, does not actually appear in the song. However, one word of it appears in the chorus, and the chorus may remind you of the rest of the title... A little practice, and I'm sure you'll tune up your missing memory.....

I'm sure they can supply the 10-foot pole if that's what you want, but it would cost you extra....

If what I learned in cultural anthropology was correct back in college, Levi Strauss was the guy with the company that sold the denim pants, and Jacob Davis was the guy who patented the rivets on the pocket-corners. The Davis story as I read it was: Davis knew this miner (as in miner '49er) who was always shoving his tools in his pockets and ripping them open. So, he'd complain to Davis every time he came back to town, and paid Davis to repair them. Finally, Davis riveted them in sheer frustration. When the guy came back NEXT TIME, the pockets all survived. Davis stopped laughing and took out a patent. :) As I understand it, Levi Strauss had a catalog with a lot of items, like the old Sears catalog (or the new one). Item 501 was the pants. So, they retained the name "501" all this time out of continuity. 501's are the button-fly jeans. I once read-from an unverified source- that 501 was the number of rivets used on a pair of the pants. I never believed that because I know that 100 rivets on a pair of pants would make them needlessly heavy and impractical, and 501 of them would just be silly.

If you can hear the chorus, that may remind you of the title....

Fine, I did this before, but I'm game.... My answers will be based primarily on Acts. (And supplemented from the Epistles and Gospels.) Trick question, since you tacked on "and how was that applied in twi?" It was NOT applied in twi. It was not applied in the "Christian" KKK, either, or the "Christian" Spanish Inquisition. True Christianity is based on the action and direction of GOD ALMIGHTY, not the dictates of LORDS OVER GOD'S HERITAGE, nor the yoke of bondage of rules and regulations. Jesus himself said it would not be that way, and I'm inclined to consider him an "expert witness" on the stand. They continued work-and Paul made sure he set the example as a tentmaker/saddlemaker/ chicken inspector so they would continue to do so. They made sure the widders and orphans were take care of. (They appointed overseers for that very thing.) Seems they were "CONCERNED" with their "careers" and families. Paul pointed out that if a leader didn't take care of his FAMILY FIRST, he wasn't qualified to be a CANDIDATE for leadership, much less a leader. So, they did do their jobs-and those who were slaves were told to be good slaves, even. They did make sure they had decent habitation and their families were tended to. This included their extended family-taking care of their parents was specifically mentioned. Using the loaded terms "career" for job, "home ownership" for "house", and "earthly families" for families is an attempt to prejudice the answer- in a sense, push-polling. This is especially true of the phrase "PRIMARILY". Nobody is speaking about "primarily", either of the 1st century, the 20th or 21st century. There's that leading phrase again... As TheEvan pointed out, this wayspeak term has no real meaning, and basically was invoked as "whatever twi says to do"... Well, they and everyone in the history of humanity can be said to have "fellowshipped" with "people of like minds" or "people of like beliefs", including all the pagan nations, oppressors, and so on. This hardly narrows the focus of discuss ion. I mean, the people in the fuzzy animal suits fellowship with like-minded believers. sports fans fellowship with like-minded believers. Black Militants fellowship with like-minded believers. White Supremacists fellowship with like-minded believers. REPEATING a contentless phrase adds no content to it, but this WAS an old twi trick to head off logical discussion... Well, EVERY group of Christians-and groups claiming to BE Christians, and groups with any sort of tie to Christianity, and groups relating to Islam, and political activists, and PETA members, and the John Birch Society, they "witness" also. Some of them even have ORGANIZED PROGRAMS to do so, like twi does. Funny, the Book of Acts mentions NO SUCH PROGRAM..... How much time, on the average, does it take to hold a belief? I've clocked it as "negligible", using my stopwatch.... Keep repeating the buzzword, and it takes on a religious special meaning despite meaning nothing initially.... One more time ought to do it.... This is a function of MILLIONS of Christians in the US alone, alive now. This is HARDLY a "distinguishing mark" for twi. In fact, a keeper of the Eleusinian mysteries or the historical "assassins" or other groups would claim to have been "born again" as well. "What is truth?" -Pontius Pilate. twi's "truths" included things like "all the women in the kingdom belonged to the king", "thoroughly and throughly mean different things", and "Christian was a term of derision referring to the new birth", all of which are patently false. The 1st century Christian church had a better track record than that..... You've repeated it enough to bypass our conscious minds! You may now shave our heads and collect 15% of our income! Or, maybe not. You made assumptions and jumped to your conclusions. See, we're not "in your church" and you can't tell us what to think. You have to "make a case" and use REASON and LOGIC. You can't declare victory by divine fiat. (Actually, you CAN, but then we'll just feel pity for you.) Making zero preparations is bad stewardship. Nobody making war just heads out- he checks his supplies and forces while still at headquarters, and calculates victory or defeat before moving. A fool will move forward with no planning. That's in the Epistles AND in Sun Tzu's "the Art of War". Making a point of being committed to God is good, but taking a figure of speech literally when it is meant to be figurative is foolish. Saying "what shall we eat?" and concluding we're not supposed to worry about that, and therefore not shopping for food and getting snowed in for the winter will mean that either you'll need a food miracle, or they'll recover your body in the spring. Who decided that these were their "PRIMARY CONCERNS", and not just solid planning? (I know, Oldiesman, but other than him?) Naming them "PRIMARY CONCERNS", however, helps maintain the ILLUSION that twi has sound practices and doctrine... Actually, you're suggesting they're making God of secondary importance in your life, so, you are claiming that these are "GOOD" things but not "BEST". See, I can still play "twi-speak" too, when I want.... Actually, you like to reming yourself that some slogans and twispeak SOUNDS pious and holy. It's like listening to Knute Rockne recordings. It may be a BETTER thing for folks to step aside from the sloganeering for a bit and look COLDLY at what "leadership" DEMANDED they do in the guise of "moving the Word". Nor does it necessarily mean you DON'T, but God forbid you DO and stay involved in twi.....