WordWolf

It's not my speed, but if it's yours, more power to you.

"Caustic, critical, always looking for errors"pretty much describes lcm's despotic reign in the 1990s. Corps Week was when the Corps got together, and was when the Corps did the set-up and assembly of all the physical details needed for the ROA. (Setting up Registration, the tents, Family Tables, food stands...) So, these Corps did setup and met together, then went home. They worked for free for the week preceding ROA. Setting up all that stuff doesn't count as "helping to put it on"?That was a week's free labour! "Reproved" them? He should have THANKED them for the free labour! After all, there WAS an admission, we DID PAY for setup, so things COULD have been done with local workers, providing work for labourers locally. Of course, that would mean vpw would have to accept seeing money exit. They served a week of hard labour. What about that? Further, when did "a lifetime of Christian service" become synonymous with "involuntary servitude for life at the whims of twi"? I don't remember MANDATORY ROA attendance being required in the corps signups-did anyone sign such a document? It occasionally came as a surprise to those people who never actually WORKED for a living (vpw went straight from school into pastoring, lcm went straight from school into the way corps), but REAL jobs have REQUIREMENTS and RESPONSIBILITIES. All these people made arrangements for a VACATION WEEK from work (for some of them, this was their ONLY vacation, or was unpaid leave), paid to travel to hq on their own from all over the country, and WORKED for a week, unpaid. Now you have the nerve to say "Not good enough-work MORE for free!" NO! These people have families to support, jobs to perform, and lives to maintain. If they leave, it's because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to, simp! At the very least, you owed them profound thanks. To insult them after they worked for free is lacking in character, lacking in integrity, and lacking in Christian values. So, to you who said this, I say "F* you, AND the motorcycle you rode in on!!!!" Or, as Andy Kaufman once said, " You, sir, are a f*ing @$$h*, a F*ing @$$h*, a F*ING @$$H*!!!! " He probably had plans for an entire Ewok village in the trees, and a 4-star resort on grounds, as well. This is one of the reasons 'Uncle Harry' was important. He would tell vpw outright when something was unfeasable and stupid. Hm. "Private homes." Someone mentioned (on this thread or another?) that vpw had invited people to build their own private homes on the grounds, with their own money, and live in them, but with the proviso that the homes were twi property and reverted to twi ownership with their death. Seems most people were too savvy to agree to build $200,000 homes from the ground up, only to deed them over to someone else eventually. If slick vic could have talked them into this, he would have. I forget who lost their house in EXACTLY this way. (Actually, they lost "their" house when they left and got no money for it, so it's APPROXIMATELY this way.) I think that's the one thing lcm can rely on. His life's been a fraction of what vpw's life was to people. (the end) ============ Ok, thoughts, people? We're into the "casual ruminations and musings" portion of tonight's show....

I'm not up on news, but, last I heard, no actual divorce ever went thru. However, I REALLY thought your other comment bore repeating. :) I imagine it chafed him. Reynolds was prominently a BOT/BOD member who didn't insist on all the perks of office that Rozilla and Donna get (private house and staff, etc.) Hearing a non-BOD member was being catered to probably didn't sit so well.

"Change is good. You go FIRST!" Rescuing all the REAL Christians from twi, and putting them in HEALTHY relationships with other Christians IS "thinking in positive terms"! Imagining that this time it will be different, this time twi really can be changed and stop hurting people, is not "positive", it's FICTIONAL. It's the same type of thing an abused spouse says when they decide to take the abuser back "for one more chance"! The language of the abuser is NOT positive, it's DELUDED. But, hey, sitting around and THINKING about it, or telling someone ELSE to do it while you stay where you are, that's sure a lot EASIER, isn't it? vpw famously did that ALL thru twi's history....

So much for the "it wasn't slave labour" statements....

Well,her perception of SOMETHING, I believe, has been demonstrated. Bank-robber Willie Sutton was asked once why he robbed banks. His answer (supposedly) was "because that's where the MONEY is." As we saw in this thread, Donna and Craig barely knew each other before lcm decided to get married, then vpw found her for him, and told her that lcm's star was going to rise high in twi. After this conversation, she was willing to marry a man she barely knew. What wa$ the rea$on for thi$? It doe$n't make much $en$e from a $piritual, Biblical per$pective... After that, the entire run of the marriage seems to have looked artificial and contrived. Some people have criticized political figures for having marriages that have appeared that way at times-but they're supposed to be in politics, and that makes sense in a realpolitik way. For supposed leaders in Christian circles, they are supposed to be blameless, beyond reproach and set the example, not play political... oh, heck, is this news to anyone? It was a political decision on her part, and a superficial one on his part. (Moggie says marry her, ok, I marry her...) Her political acumen has served her well. With 95% of the ministry having left or been kicked out, she's managed to live in comfort and luxury. All it took was the choice to serve mammon over God, and the following of the political winds, and playing the game. Anyone wondering why she's not in the spotlight? You can do more manipulation and politicking from the shadows.... Took him long enough to make this claim. We were better than any Christians LIVING, and now we were better than any Christians who EVER lived. vpw thought of himself as greater than the Apostle Paul. You KNOW his criteria for greatness was "knowledge", after all. WHY?The only reason that makes sense is the famous "If you can teach until they have no questions, you did a good job", but that's not the answer. They may have a question that went in another direction than you taught. Me, whenever I was done teaching the Bible, I was FINE with questions. Still AM. Usually that's a GOOD time-especially when everything's fresh to mind for everyone. The only other reason I can see would be "I have made my speech, peasant. Trouble me not with your senseless prattle."

Got proof of this, or just pulled it out of the air? Don't blink. You just missed vpw admit he taught the holy spirit field without documenting it from the Word FIRST. That's because he just parroted from Leonard, Stiles, and so on. That's the only reason to be surprised someone ELSE did it. Furthermore, we've seen lcm in action. He didn't 'document' diddly about 'the spirit realm'. Well, there goes that bald statement made in pfal-which was NEVER followed up on-that the Book of Revelation wasn't difficult. Apparently, it was made just to make us think vpw was smart enough to understand it HIMSELF, but, as we see, he didnt understand it either, so he was lying thru his teeth. (Does this qualify as 'news'?) AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Rug. So much for "I have no friends when it comes to God's Word"...

As usual, one "standard" for most people,and another "standard" for the top. Which, of course, raises the question- 'Why was a day named after a person to begin with?'

Another good idea that would have been nice in practice. I'll buy that it was the first time he had to teach on his OWN and not just cut-and-paste someone else's book. So, he had worked harder than he ever had. The "5-6 hours" thing is no more true for that than it is for any other subject by any writer.

Bull. vpw did whatever he wanted and later labelled it with a spiritual name. lcm absorbed that lesson and used it without ever naming it. That's why HE would scream and vent when angry, and call it "spiritual anger." That was vpw distilled to his basic essence- I do what I want If I'm angry, I take it out on everyone I always label my actions correct and holy/spiritual As a major twit, he didn't know any better. Reporters can't be told how to dress by the people they visit- unless the dress code is a pre-requisite to entering the location. If vpw was holding a black-tie event, and issued RSVPs to the reporters, and they showed without jacket-and-tie (or equivalent for the female reporters), THAT would be a different story. Just because he felt like he was the US President didn't mean they had to TREAT him like he was. He should have been thankful they showed up at all. He was hardly the head of "a large corporation". He was a church leader (supposedly). And, since he started off by telling the reporters how to do their jobs (which he was not qualified to do), he further established himself as a 'major dipstick' in charge of a church. Do we have a reporter here who can explain-CORRECTLY- how these things are done? Ok, I can understand giving a place a field run/ shakedown, and finding what needs fixing. Makes sense. And all the years of promises to the corps and way builders were shown to be meaningless. vpw was not a gentleman, and did NOT live up to his promises AS a gentleman. He decided what he wanted, and others had to go along, and if he broke his word of honour in the process, what of it? He was neither faithful in that which was LEAST nor that which was MOST. "Honour is a mere escutcheon And so ends my catechism."- Falstaff (the rogue and thief of Shakespeare's books.) I wouldn't be willing to bet money on THAT one. He wasn't even willing to ARGUE with people. Obey or else! They needed to be TOLD this? We're missing something-they couldn't have been THAT stupid... I shall call you 'Rug', for you lie like one. Sure would have been nice if he'd LIVED it more and SAID it less... I thought he wasn't supposed to remember them all- that came up at his inauguration or something. Oh- that meant "remember vpw and forget everyone else." Silly of me. And its absence that set lcm up for a destruction and a fall. Yes- they demand oaths of allegiance and fire people who don't make them! "Free", of course, means "10% of your income, plus whatever else we can talk you into sharing, plus our tapes and magazines are priced RETAIL to earn a profit, plus our events are priced RETAIL to earn a profit, plus our classes are priced RETAIL to earn a profit." It sure cost a lot of money to "hear the Word for free." Some people in here paid over 10,000 in one year to "hear the Word for free."

Oh, people, if you only knew the sacrifices that were made, how hard the trustees relaxed for you, it would make you cry. They had to drag themselves to beautiful vacation spots and FORCE themselves to relax-all for you. They would have preferred day-trips locally, but for you, they endured packing, transit, unpacking, tourist traps, gourmet dining, and countless of mammon's attractions. Great as a slogan. Excellent as a rule of practice. And, naturally, ignored by lcm once he was done with "writing" this book. "Reprove", in this instance, means "scream at them because they displeased you." They spoke of the incident years later. vpw was a show-off that insisted that HIS usages of words was the SOLE correct one. If one wanted to be picky, 'create' might be dispensed with, but his insistence that the word "possess" was inappropriate for anything other than cases of demonic possession was silly and ignores how we got the term 'demonic possession' in the first place. The guy spoke of resources they were in command and authority over, and he said they 'possessed' them. vpw "corrected" him for using the term correctly. It's as smart as "correcting" someone for referring to someone stingy and miserly as acting "niggardly" because they don't like the term "nigger". But the 2 terms have NOTHING to do with each other. Objecting based on the sounds of words and whether you LIKE them is not a valid objection-to most people who communicate intelligently and have a standard, at any rate. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! *begins playing violin music in the background* WHAT pressure? He was doing the work he SUPPOSEDLY loved, which we loved- studying and teaching the Bible! He was being paid HANDSOMELY for it! He set his own work-schedule and hours! He had EVERY luxury he wanted! He had a wife who loved him, and the respect and adoration of thousands, if not TENS of thousands! Anytime he wanted, he could have travelled-in style- anywhere in the US and had locals treat him like a visitor of state! WHAT pressure? The pressure to STOP sinning when no one was looking? The pressure to STOP feeding his vices of drink and tobacco? The pressure to conform to the image he manufactured for himself? The pressure to-just once- act like the man he knew himself to be? I say to this man, "F* you, AND the motorcycle you rode in on!!!!!" And didn't he live to regret THOSE words....

That was at least partly true. vpw had an interesting definition of "truth", there. Which means what, exactly? I disagree. It as a better book than most, since it wasn't just vpw and his xerox machine. Also, a hardness of attitude at hq? Who would have guessed? And one of the more outrageous claims from a man notorious for outrageous claims.lcm was competent, but strictly AVERAGE at hq. The one thing the trustees excelled at was these annual meetings in resorts. How hard they worked to enjoy themselves for us! And the stone of which that heart is constructed.

The concern NEVER was for the individual. As we saw, the individuals were DISPOSABLE. With MORE people, they're MORE disposable. As the next story illustrates. I focus better taking notes. Many people do. Many people do NOT. That's why many sitting of pfal, people were told "you don't have to take notes"-some people focus better NOT taking notes. If the concern was for the INDIVIDUAL, you'd know it was just as likely. Unforgiveable sin-not taking notes on vpw's utterances. He didn't handle this privately, "of course". The corps requirements never state notetaking for all teachings is REQUIRED. Therefore, vpw broke the committment he made with this man when he so casually kicked him out. He might well have been FULLY focusing and making sure he caught every word. But, the concern was NEVER for the individual- individuals were DISPOSABLE. He wants lcm to see this, and he makes lcm the errand-boy for this. This is going to be another drama. The guy, who, like most people, completed a normal number of things, was feeling miserable, having been callously discarded by a man he so respected. Of COURSE he FEELS like he never finished anything. However, knowing only that he was in the corps, we already know he completed 1) Foundational class 2) Intermediate class 3) Home studies 4) Advanced class Now, already, as the ministry is concerned, he's progressed nicely. He made it thru the Advanced class plus its requirements. Depending on his status, he may also have completed the wow program. This guy finished lots of stuff, but vpw made him feel lower than the grass. vpw, obviously, knows this is true for the same reasons you and I do... vpw covered his own error-the casual, tyrranical dismissal-and gave an excuse All that just so vpw doesn't have to admit that he himself doesn't know how to LEAD or MANAGE people- only tyrranize. The man can't admit he's wrong. BWAHAHAHAHA!!!! vpw warmed himself at many fires he did not build, and hid the names of the men he owed great debts to. He instructs lcm to follow his lead. lcm wasn't even to thank them privately-apparently, he just had to forget them.

Thanks guys, for picking up on Tesla. Tesla had substance and character, and was an absolute genius with electricity. I kept getting stuck on whether Edison was the Direct Current guy and Tesla was the Alternating Current guy, or vice versa. Edison DID invent the electric chair execution device- which used AC. He did this to try to connect AC with murder in the minds of the public. (Interesting try.) At advanced age, it appears Alzheimers or a similar problem overtook Nikola Tesla, so at THAT time he became somewhat obsessive-compulsive (in the "count your food" way.) Before that, he was very clear and focused. In fact, his illness only made him "hyper-focused". Of course, you can't blame him for lack of perfection due to illness. (vpw and lcm would, though. I suppose they'd say he eventually went "gooney-bird.")

As someone pointed out, that means vpw didn't spend as much time in Acts as he should have. And if it wasn't "chapter and verse", how did he really "know" it? He might just have been incorrect. Was it an "INVITATION" (thus optional) or a "REQUIREMENT" (thus compulsory)? Not a problem if it was an "INVITATION", but if it was, lcm should have known it would be expected of him specifically. A little public humiliation is standard operating procedure for vpw. (As it was later for lcm.) So much for "He handled it in private of course." Who wants to bet money vpw failed to set the example and write out HIS? Or, he got over himself. vpw, master of the name-drop.What did that concern have to do with Rufus Mosely? Lots of ministry people would have said the exact same thing! As if they split off from an established congregation because they wanted to do EVERYTHING their way and keep the loot and boink the females? If they did, they'd just be following in vpw's footsteps....

Hm. Very thought-provoking.

God forbid the leader should have to THINK.....lcm, apparently, is a stranger to "brainstorming"... That was a good idea. Why did they need this to be pointed out to them? And what happened to this with lcm in the 80s and 90s? As has already been pointed out, that wasn't "a door to witness", that was a lecherous older man, drunk with power, trying to impress a woman sitting next to him. What a shame. It would have been a HUGE improvement all around. That's not what the research team said the team was ABOUT... As was pointed out, vpw didn't teach by example. He would have told others to move the chairs. Plus, they needed him to explain that? Weren't they stringing the chairs already? Is this a part of "nobody knew anything unless vpw taught it to them"? He needed to be told that he had to be rested and at his best when teaching live? He had to be told to delegate some rather than try to micromanage everything? He must have learned to micromanage SOMEWHERE. Any guesses who taught him to do it?

People whose actual concerns are HEALTH and WELL-BEING will FIRSTaddress the most immediate, pressing DANGERS to health and well-being. If a chronic drinker and chain-smoker has the most comfortable sleeping area in the world, and gets 10 hours of uninterrupted sleep, and always eats from all 4 of the basic food groups, it's still expected he'd going to drop dead at a young age because the most PRESSING dangers to his life are still there, damaging organs and introducing carcinogens. Therefore, vpw was either a moron (which is possible) or the coach thing was for a DIFFERENT reason. Since he used the coach primarily to allow him his creature comforts (easy access to smokes and drinks) and to have a convient platform to rape women, I'd go so far as to say the coach thing wasn't about HEALTH at all. And that came from vpw and lcm. You can laugh now. Well, to start with, he claimed they left because they felt that they knew better, and thus that they had no LEGITIMATE reasons to leave, and only CARNAL reasons to leave. Those we've heard from who left seem to have had legitimate reasons when we've heard from them. Is it "demonstrating great love" to make up stories about people to trash their reputation when they leave? At least we know where lcm learned that trick....

Of course. He handled it privately. Unless he felt like handling it publicly, in which case you were humiliated in public. Of course. As we've seen from the same book, lots of times. He wasn't ready before getting on the flight?I was working on a teaching just because it was on my mind, and someone asked me the next day if I had a teaching ready. I was able to close that one up inside of five minutes, and I was not scheduled to teach ANYWHERE. If I'd been scheduled to, I would have been ready sooner. Why wasn't vpw just as ready for SCHEDULED ones? I mean, light tweaks on a flight are one thing, STARTING the thing is another.... George Mueller had NOTHING to do with twi. His attitude towards praying was VERY different from twi. twi acted like they could DEMAND from God. Mueller came boldly, but humbly with his requests. vpw wasn't fit to lace the shoelaces of George Mueller. Ironic, since much of the failure can be traced directly to HIM... Obviously, vpw is using some definition of "fail" I'm not familiar with. If Wesley's ministry FAILED, the number of people would have dwindled. A quick web search shows that a United Methodist set of conferences in South Africa (Wesleyan conferences) recently had a combined attendance of 425,513. That's greater than the total number of people who have ever taken pfal Foundational and wap Foundational put together- and that's counting many people TWICE. In 1970, the United Methodist Church in the US had a membership of 10,671,744. Dwindling membership numbers place them in 1995 as 9,105,046. Again, that's only the US. That's also more than TEN TIMES in excess of people who ever took any of twi's classes. That's something approaching 100 times the number of people GLOBALLY who've taken pfal. Then again, perhaps "fail" is meant to refer to moral standards and corruption. I STILL have not heard of scandals rocking the UMC. On the other hand, vpw-who made the statement- and lcm-who reported it- were chronic sinners better suited to selling drugs or pimping than to ministry. So, he must not have meant that kind of failure.

Oops. Oh, well, nothing major, right? vpw didn't "reprove" them since there's no Bible chapter and verse that requires one to say a goodbye. He was genuinely hurt. 100% true. Mainly because he didn't get his formal "salaam" before they left. Dr "always thought of his people" when they forgot to kiss his as-inine self-image. Interesting how they're "HIS PEOPLE" when they want him to do something, or when they are obeying him, but when they need urgent help, it's platitudes and bus rides home. Nothing but the quickest, cheapest solutions, for the disposable people known as "his people." Of course it was very emotional.It was STAGED to be emotional. He was right in the middle of the teaching, she's brought right up to the stage to him, he makes a compassionate gesture. (Of course, if she has a mental breakdown next month, it's off on a bus like the rest of them...) And it was a fantastic "photo op", and re-inforced her loyalty. And was a nice visible illustration. "Look how much he cares for his people!" Of course, we don't even know her name, because she really WASN'T a part of his life. When the photo-op was done, it's the bus and obscurity for you. You're being wished away into a cornfield. DUH. Unless what they need is expensive, in which case, base them on saving money or what you feel.... Most microphones WERE muffled behind cloth-a baffle placed over them!Whoever he was getting this information from was ill-informed, and, apparently, hadn't seen many microphones. I'm sure it was done a LOT in the secular world. You didn't notice, because you didn't see the microphone, BECAUSE IT WAS BEHIND THE TIE! Most speakers are more interested that you hear the CONTENT than in the props that put them onstage. What's so masterful or holy about someone tossing out a compliment? You'd think it was the first public usage of that phrase...

Well, Belle actually got the song. Plus, we heard from me already recently, so, if she'll be so kind..?

Interesting how he told THEM to do it, and he hadn't done it.In hindsight, the reasons are obvious. He rarely did his own work... It was vpw's idea, and lcm's work. Which is the business of the 2 people, who weren't even in a program at the time. Why? It was none of his business! So much for vpw claiming reprood is done in PRIVATE... Because we all know how long-term relationships can be repaired and revitalized by a third party spouting platitudes at the couple rather than, say, marriage counselling of some kind..... ...but that's so much more expensive than platitudes... And when it comes to marriage counselling, does anyone here think vpw is the kind of person you want to give you marriage counselling? It's like that tv show where Jennifer Lopez was giving a toast at a wedding. "And I'd like you to know, the key to a successful marriage is-- oh, who am I kidding?" (Yes, it was a comedy.)