WordWolf

*blink blink* I believe you may have something there.

karmicdebt has it! For those of you who saw the movie, the quote comes in the last 10 minutes. If you did NOT see the movie, when you do, you'll find yourself LAUGHING when it comes up, but I won't spoil the surprise by telling you WHY. I take it karmicdebt remembers it for that reason. (Or is really keen on this movie.)

"I Think I'm Turning Japanese" was the one hit from "the Vapors". If it's the right song, then Belle got it (see the previous post.)

I'm sure all the new people don't know about this....

I'm not done with how unconscionably callous this was. Here's what he said: ============ "Dr and LCM always fought for people to stay in the Corps. There was an incident of a guy in the Corps who all of a sudden went "gooney-bird". He started to babble and not make sense. LCM worked hard with the guy to help him but he was incoherent. Dr, when he met him, confronted him by asking- 'Son, how come you're letting your mind get all scrambled?' The guy answered unintelligibly and Dr told him that it would be best for him just to pack his bags and go home. The guy understood that. He left. LCM spent many hours and many long distance phone calls trying to make sure the guy had gotten home from his bus ride home safely. Not being able to verify his location, he was concerned. Dr told him to move on. There's nothing you can do, he'll show up at home soon enough. A week later the guy did show up at home." ====================== Now, this was not much different from an undiagnosed HEART problem in that it struck without warning and was biological. So, I rewrote this using a different example as follows, to shine another light on this.... ==== "Dr and LCM always fought for people to stay in the Corps. There was an incident of a guy in the Corps who all of a sudden collapsed. He started to gasp for breath, and seemed to pass out and come back, his heart hammering in his chest. LCM worked hard with the guy to help him but he wouldn't remain fully conscious. Dr, when he met him, confronted him by asking, 'Son, how come you're letting your heart race?' The guy murmured inaudibly and Dr told him it would be best for him just to pack his bags and go home. The guy understood that. He left. LCM spent many hours and many long-distance phone calls trying to make sure the guy had gotten home from his bus ride home safely. Not being able to verify his location, he was concerned. Dr told him to move on. 'There's nothing you can do, he'll show up at home soon enough. A week later, the guy did show up at home." ======= NOW can everyone see why I find this an outrage? Worse, it's hardly an isolated incident. The "my story" forum has other people who were shoved off grounds and on buses also, also barely functional. I don't know about the courts then, but if someone did this today, they could be charged with CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE.

Except those who ran out of money, of course... lcm got his Bachelor's Degree in PSYCHOLOGY. He was unable to explain better than this what happened. "Gooney-bird" is not a phrase found in the DSM-III, which was THE standard in use at the time. Sounds to me that this guy had an undiagnosed psychiatric problem. His chemistry or neurology was out of order and was preventing him from functioning at that moment with an acute attack of SOMETHING. That's not something you can DECIDE TO CHANGE by trying-you need medication or surgery to address that (although therapy WITH medication or surgery works better than the medication or surgery ALONE). ANY psychology undergrad student should know that- let alone one who got his BACHELORS. Was this aphasic, or did it resemble a schizophrenicepisode? Was he using actual words but jumbling them, or unable to form the syllables for English words? Either way, this was NOTHING the guy could control. Why "CONFRONT" someone having an OBVIOUS psychiatric episode? That's as sensible as "CONFRONTING" someone for having a broken leg! Further, the guy is INCOHERENT- why are you asking him questions? He may not understand them-and you definitely can't understand his ANSWERS. DDUUUUUUUHHHH Yeah, that sure demonstrates the love of God's people. Guy has a psychiatric episode. He needs to go to a hospital and be seen and diagnosed. So, we're kicking him off grounds and out of the program. A man has just had an acute psychiatric attack!We don't know if it was a seizure, an aneurysm, a stroke! The man may be bleeding in his brain and ready to DIE as soon as the next seizure hits, any moment now! He needs an EMERGENCY ROOM visit, and a Dr needs to make that distinction! Once that's been determined, it does make sense to get him back to his family's care as quickly as possible. That means you arrange for his family to meet him at the airport, you put him and a volunteer on a plane, meet the family, and the volunteer turns around and comes home. You DIDN'T give him a REFUND on his corps fees, so the money can come from there. If you MUST be a cheapskate, then put him in the backseat of a car, and put 2 drivers to drive him home. They alternate driving so you can keep going faster, and the other guy sits in the back and keeps an eye on the guy and makes sure he doesn't have a seizure or something. A man's LIFE is at stake here. He is not DISPOSABLE!!!! Why NOT able to verify his location? Because they took a man who was suffering from a psychatric attack, has an obvious, undiagnosed problem, kicked him off grounds, "threw him in the water and told him to swim." ANYTHING could happen to him! They shoved him on a bus-and not on a 1-hour nonstop, either! MY GOD!He really WAS "DISPOSABLE!" He's off grounds, forget about him. A WEEK LATER? It doesn't take a full week to cross from Ohio to any point in the lower 48. NYC to Los Angeles can be done by bus in a week. NYC to hq is 12 hours continuous, figure TRIPLE that at the slowest possible trip. That's less than 2 days. Double THAT for anyplace in the lower 48, and that's 4 days. This man has been wandering around for at least 3 days minimum. That's because he had an acute psychiatric attack, and the response was to shove him on a bus and forget about him. What a HEARTLESS, CALLOUS, INHUMAN response to have. "Oh, eventually, he turned up home, so no harm done."

And yet, this is the conclusion that fits the FACTS. The followers were USED. Ignoring this or mislabelling it doesn't change this. Gee, I'd PREFER to view it that way too- but it was a polite fiction at best, and a lie from the pit of hq at worst. The FACTS keep interfering with my ability to view it the way they advertised it. The same is true of their paid commercial. Just because Bradshaw read it on the air didn't make THAT true, either...

Oh, let them try! Many of you tried to fix it from within before you saved your own necks and escaped! They need to become fully-persuaded that the organization is irreparably corrupted. They best way to do that is- let them try to fix it and see how far they DON'T get. Eventually, they'll understand, and get tired of the constant grab a parachute, and hit the silk.

If I were to conjecture, I'd say his liver was badly weakened by alcoholism, as was his immune system. When he exposed his liver and other body parts to a known cancer-causing agent over long periods of time (chain-smoking), his weak liver and weak immune system were sitting ducks. ==== This "believe to stay alive stuff" failed miserably because it's ERROR, and the "he got tired of fighting" was a non-answer used as a smoke-screen for the truth- "his vices killed him."

Geez, no pressure, huh! === Okay, how about this one.... "If his unpleasant wounding has in some way enlightened the rest of you as to the grim finish beneath the glossy veneer of criminal life, then his injuries carry with it an inherent nobility, and a supreme glory. We should all be so fortunate. You say 'poor Toby'? I say 'poor us'. "

Jetc57 contrasted vpw's paranoia about assassins with his self-destructive addictions to alcohol and tobacco.

You didn't know? There's Drambuie references all over threads about him! :) One poster hosted him once, and said he accidently left Scotch bottles in sight. vpw studied them like he wanted to be offered some (it was early morning.) Someone said the reason he was always taking those mints and breaking them in his mouth was to hide the booze-smell. He smoked Kool shorties. People hosting him were given a 3-page list of preparations. Kool shorties were supposed to be on hand. The guy might well have turned into a pumpkin at midnight if he spent 24 hours without alcohol or tobacco.

No, I saw a miraculous snowstorm, and God said to click this thread to the top. That's nothing. Check the archives sometime- there's several more threads JUST on this subject.

Well, there's some things we DO know. We do know that Roza-lie had a lesbian couple living in her house at one point. (Check the photo archives off the main site.) This isn't proof of anything, in and of itself. We do know that Rozilla and Donna, when on trips, would not get separate rooms, nor a quad with 2 beds or whatever- they slept in the same bed. This, in and of itself, would have meant nothing in Abe Lincoln's time. Someone said they walked in on Donna and Rozycheeks just after "the crime was blazing". Then again, they MIGHT have been mistaken. ====== Given how contrived the "courtship" and marriage of lcm and Donna was (check the vp/wonderland thread), there's room for speculation. I can come up with LOTS of possibilities, but I won't. The BOT was the Board of Trustees, now known as the Board of Directors. The BOD is the Board of Directors. LMAO is internet slang-it's short for "laughing my aspirin off."

More on the subject, in fact, more on it than lcm did...

Here's one thread about lcm's stupid, stupid teaching about Eve.

Here's a thread about lcm's insipid replacement for pfal.

If this isn't a transparent "I want you to imitate me" thing,I don't know what is... They can stay as long as their money holds! We MUST have their money-can't stay without it. What do we value most? "The people." But the people better have money or we don't value them so much. Smoking is expensive. vpw knew that-he chain-smoked and all the money came from your ABS. Of course, this would have been a GOLDEN time to illustrate it was possible to stop smoking by stopping HIMSELF. After all, a leader doesn't expect things from the followers that he HIMSELF doesn't do.... Moreso than from himself, but this is no longer news. The others were smart and learned that lying to leadership WORKS! So much for the "people are what matter most" stuff... I was serious about kicking you out! But I changed my mind-if you have all our money, that is....

I don't know how I missed it, Oakspear. Business as usual. vpw started with the "I want your loyalty to me" in writing. lcm picked it up and tried it in 1989, but it didn't work.

You left out "chronic alcohol drinking" along with the "chronic tobacco smoking". vpw, when not at the biggest events, regularly had EITHER a cigar OR a cup in his hand-and it wasn't plain COFFEE no matter what you thought. He'd show up at morning meetings drinking. He was addicted to tobacco and alcohol, and years of feeding both addictions eroded his internal organs and their ability to cleanse out his body. With alcohol beating down the filtration systems, when he got cancer from all the tobacco-a known carcinogen- his body had nothing to use to fight with. Small wonder he deteriorated fast. The man was about as "clean living" as Jerry Garcia. (Jerry made it to 53 and looked 73.)

That's not good enough. The police departments across the country know that police are responsible for people's lives. So, they don't leave things up to folks' decisions. They fingerprint applicants and give them psychological tests, and background checks BEFORE training BEGINS. WOWs and corps faced NO screening process, which guarantees that, sooner or later, things will blow up in everyone's faces. I heartily agree-that's one of SEVERAL steps I'd have mandated. That's an excuse. It's STILL wrong. Which works A) If nobody's twisting arms selling the program-"you'll grow 10 years!" B) if everyone is completely honest about their maturity C) people with psychological and psychatric problems are excluded That's why screening processes EXIST. EVERYBODY has a screening process. It at least eliminates the worst cases. That's no excuse for carelessness and NOT TRYING.Even a BAD screening process would have been of SOME use. I'm glad we can agree that was wrong and unconscionable and bad. (Sometimes I wondered if we both still agreed that.) However, I was asking about the programs and staff and so on. Not so much the "vpw committed a felony on me personally" stuff, but the organizational bad things. Can you point to even one of those? I gave a few examples, you might choose one of those if you're drawing a blank.

Unqualified man is now completely in charge, and told not to have a guilty conscience or analyze past mistakes. This is a bad sign... They were right. corps PAID to join, then were assigned manual labour. What a cold statement. Was that due to HINDSIGHT,or was that always a cold decision? Naturally-he can hardly think for himself at this point. vpw would handle this entire business-find the woman, convince her to marry lcm, etc. Oh, we're suddenly skipping so, so much... I'd LOVE to have a transcript of what she was told.He'll be a bigwig in this ministry, this man you will marry. Was there ever a drop of love in this? Was it all cold calculations? lcm decides he should marry, vpw picks the woman, lcm agrees, vpw tells her she's landing a rich, influential husband. This is about as deep and passionate as those mail-order brides. They decided to marry but didn't know each other well. Anyone else catch that? Also, nice double-standard. Nobody else gets ANY privileges, lcm and his fiancee have a free pass to do whatever. SHE was embarassed?I'll bet anything VPW was the instigator. "Protocol", of course, means "you kiss up to vpw and do whatever he wants." What rule of "protocol" was this supposed to be? What set of rules of "protocol" was used as a standard? Amazing the corps never were assigned this "protocol", but that's ok-it only applied when in vpw's presence....