The best of times for me in twi were the times like what you've described, danteh: coffee at Sambo's and Denny's; ice cream on hot summer nights at DQ--we would all (sometimes as many as 15 or so) walk up there in a group after twig or branch meetings (from 915 Western, Dove, to the DQ on 17th) and be all excited about the 'hot bible' we had just heard and be talking about it and how it applied to our lives--then we'd get to DQ and sometimes nearly have another twig meeting right there--we'd pray, pull out our bibles and look again at what we had just learned, witness, have healing sessions and sometimes even believer's meetings, and so often others at DQ would stand around and listen; going to Gage park to hang out with each other and so often end up doing the same thing as at DQ; going to Emporia (in a 'WOWmobile' full to nearly overflowing with all of us) to help out and for services and special meetings, praying the whole way that the car would make it and the gas would be enough to get us there and back, taking the back roads when we didn't have enough for toll; sitting around the branch home listening to BY sing while accompanying himself on his beautiful 12-string Ovation roundback (and I still long to hear him again); waiting for my boyfriend at the branch home and all of a sudden someone jumping down off the stair banister yelling something totally hilarious; the joyous, spontaneous, heartfelt laughter; the happy tears of seeing someone get deliverance--even in a 'small' way; the excitement of the bible opening up to our understanding.
These things were the best of times in twi for me.
White Dove, I haven't forgotten...and I never will. Love ya, dude.
Is there anything that you remember about TWI before they got into all the Legalistic 'BS' that was good???
The best of times, for me..........were the outdoorsy get-togethers.
Our branch (five twigs) had planned an afternoon and evening at a nearby park and lake area. Two believers had access to boats. The whole afternoon was planned with fun and games and fellowship. some of the games were beach volleyball, horseshoes, a water balloon fight, water fun for the kiddos, frisbees, and a few other things. Water skiing and tubing made for lots of fun and plenty of laughs.
We had a pot bless supper......baked beans, potatoe salad, chips & dip, munchies, veggies......and we grilled plenty of hot dogs and hamburgers. Also, we made sure that there was extra in case anyone witnessed to some people (I remember 3 new people joining in and sticking around).
After supper, the branch guy taught us some bible for about 20 minutes...manifestattions, prayer, a couple of songs....and sweet fellowship into the night. With an open campfire and s'mores and victory sharings.... the day was ONE FOR THE MEMORIES.
For two years, we had branch activities like this........a slice of heavenly fellowship.
For me, it was the first two years of involvement. I could not have asked to be with a better group (well, except for the woman in whose Way Home we were living burning it down for the insurance ).
This was a group from the San Fernando valley in L.A. We were together almost every night, because we liked each other. As Cool described, getting together after Twig for discussions were always very special. Otherwise, we would have lawn parties and invite the neighbors. We would go to the beach and have fires and singing. We'd go camping together. We'd put on special events for holidays. We'd go cruising up and down the main drag, sometimes for fun, sometimes to witness.
We laughed-all the time. We cried with each other as each was going through their own growing pains. We rejoiced at weddings and births. It really was a time of growth, with little outside interference. And when most finally went their own ways (WOW, Corps, instate programs), it ended much too soon.
Best of times was twig three times a week. almost daily fellowship and Word, singing, praying, and manifestations. Doing lots of fun stuff together with an occassional PFAL along the way. The best was on the Island of Guam. that fellowship I realized walking by the spirit and the love and fun.
The best of times was the spontaneous get-togethers and sitting around chatting after fellowships. That was my first year in TWI and those times became more rare after that first year.
The worst of times was when they started planning and forcing times like those spontaneous ones. I remember we would plan parties, game nights, etc. but nobody really wanted to be there and everyone was pretending to be having a good time. It just wasn't so much fun once it was required and you were expected to be there and to have fun - damnit!
I guess you mean well, and certainly seem like a nice-enough person, but PUHLEEZE!
We were in a farking CULT! How pleasant the conversation was from time to time, or how much fun it was mowing the Limb Home lawn with our friends, or other esoteric activities is meaningless.
The overall effect of the whole organization was to hem you in, put reins on you, stifle your individuality and DRAIN YOUR RESOURCES. There was no point where it was a "good" ministry. It was a twisted, pathological, HARMFUL, self-serving POS outfit from it's inception.
The fact that we were thrown a bone from time to time or managed to still have a laugh or two in between the BS is entirely irrelevant.
We DIDN'T learn any special, secret "truths" - unknown for ages. We didn't find any special entre unto the Almighty. And we sure as hell didn't have any "abundant life" if you compare us with our contemporaries.
Jeezus GAWD, we were scammed, played for fools, abused, used, and degraded. That we somehow managed to still chuckle every now and then doesn't mitigate the reality of that...
George, you're right and most of us know it. However, I'm beginning to look at things more like as a marriage gone terribly awry instead of a dark hole from the get-go.
The things I experienced during the love-bombing stage were genuine...the people (except for a small handful) were genuinely nice to me and I to them, we genuinely enjoyed one another's company, we genuinely were out to make our ideals happen, we genuinely had no clue how bad things were going to get for so many of us. None but a handful knew that the love-bombing was a tactic and was going to end abruptly once it was deemed that we were sufficiently hooked. We thought the love-bombing was the whole goal.
You know, I've had really bad jobs, but I can look back and remember some good things.
I had a horrible upbringing, but I can look back and remember some good things.
I've had really bad relationships, but I can look back and remember some good things.
I was in a cult-but I can look back and remember some good things.
Looking back at the good times doesn't mean that we don't NOW know what it was. It's part of our life history. I don't consider it "irrelevant". My memories of the times with my friends are something I cherish very much, and they saved my life when I was comtemplating sucide at the tender age of seventeen.
I appreciate the difficulties which were blended into the picture (believe me I do) but I remember the best of times for what they were, and no one will ever take that away.
But whenever this topic comes along (and it has several times), it always strikes me as being more than a little bit in denial. Yeah, we had some good times. Geeze, doesn't EVERYBODY? But to pick those elements out as if to indicate that there was indeed some real, basic goodness in the whole experience I think is unhealthy.
I'm sure the passengers on the Titanic had some wonderful moments during their cruise, but somehow I'll bet that that wasn't the focus of much of their conversations about their trip afterwards...
The things I remember that I loved best were the feelings of having a mission, an important job to do...that I was in an intense spiritual battle fighting Satan and doing my darndest to strike a blow or two for God.
I liked the feeling that somehow I was making a difference in the world.
I loved being with people who were living their lives unselfishly ...having a bigger picture than just their own daily existance.
Rascal pretty well said it for me too. I really loved being a part of what I believed was a clean, well-intended bunch of God's people who basically just wanted to live lives that pleased God and in doing so lived very well.
The community of people raising kids according to the Word was great support and wonderful company.
The worst was that last couple hours of my association with the way - that really sucked bad. (Most of the first 15 years was great, tho.)
I appreciate the comments and TRUE, TWI was a a cult under all of the legal terms.
BUT, the main reason i started the thread was to look back on some of the things that some of us "old timers" can remember. That there was such a thing as love and some good fellowship before headquarters started getting into more of a heavy hand and controlling the fine points of how fellowships were run.
I got in in 1974 while in the U.S. Navy Seabees in Puerto Rico. Littlehawk, Gary Matsuk, myself and about 2 other ppl were in the class i took. Back then we all had a great time. going into San Juan and fellowshipping with the brothers and sisters there. The 2 pople in charge at that time in San Juan were Charles Henry Rixs and Ian Murphy. They were to me pretty nice people to have as leaders.
I also know that as time went on that things went sour with TWI, with all of the legal mumbo jumbo.
But my name of the thread was for people here on GSC to remember all of the good times and not so much of the bad that came later. I know that for me to remember a lot of the bad times, and belive me that i could tell some stories that are almost as bad as some people have told already it would make a person want to sit down and cry.
thats why i thought that some would like to have a place to remember the good times and even better friends from a otherwise bad time in thier life.
Hope that i havent made anyone mad at me or anything but was hoping to have something to help people remember at least something good. :unsure: :unsure:
It was a mixed bag folks. Yes, there was good in the group, because there was good people endeavoring to do good for people, and for God. And even tho' I threw away religion and related views, I'm not going to deny that there were those who sincerely believed in their God, and tried to sincerely help people with what they thought/believed was true at the time. Even if a lot of it was found/determined not to be later on.
Basically, it was the people in it trying to help that appealed to others, not VPW or LCM.
So spare us the "But it's a CULT!" routine to prove your point, ok? ... 'Cult' under legal terms? :blink: Got a flash for ya. There *IS* no 'legal' term for 'cult'.
Well, out of respect for Garth's delicate sensibilities, I'll refrain from using the "c" word, but...
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that reminiscing about the warm and fuzzy experiences we had in WayWorld often ends up deliberately overlooking what the organization really was.
Sure there were some wonderful people there and I'm sure lots of us had fun drinking malteds down at Wally's Sugar Shack while one or another of us sought out some chump with a willing ear to listen to our Way-flavored dogma. But doesn't the reality of what it was that we were involved with taint all of those experiences?
Do the good times one had while hawking Amway products still retain their lustre after you've finally figured out that Amway made a fool out of you? How about German soldiers sharing stories about the time they all got drunk and burned down the Jew's house on their street? Or maybe the UFO-logists remembering the great times they had waiting for the Mother Ship to come and rescue them?
I think the context of our experiences DOES matter. And the fact that we WASTED years of our lives, money, resources, and our life energy pursuing a fictional, twisted, neo-fascist dream is more than embarassing to me. It's downright shameful and depressing.
All I remember are the good times. I have to think to pick out the bad. Unto the pure all things are pure and to them that are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure. Ann Frank spoke of the good in us all. In the face of all the facts that poor little Jew Girl went to the showers & the ovens. So we love her diary for its blind faith. And yet it was this distortion of reality that allows evil to triumph. Why do we do this?
I can spell out the bad hurts and boo-boos. And yet what my mind wants to remember is that under TWI I worshipped in spirit for the first time. I fellowshiped and helped build up the body with those guys. I learned to study the scriptures and I learned to walk by the spirit. And yet there was bad. After TWI I know I lead at least three different people into worshipping in the spirit. but wait. maybe that's not real. I'm hindu now but I can still speak-in-tongues. My Wife wants to find a church for the sake of the children. She lets our kids watch the Siimpson's, SpongeBod, and Ren&Stimpy but is afraid of what they might learn in any given church. :blink:
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that reminiscing about the warm and fuzzy experiences we had in WayWorld often ends up deliberately overlooking what the organization really was.
How about seeing both points? 1) Our 'warm and fuzzy experiences', and 2) what VPW & Co. really turned out to be. Can't the human mind have the capacity to realize both here?
And ya know, there are a LOT of folks here that do exactly that. Realize and detail both the good AND the bad. Now maybe there are the few who just cannot see the bad for the good, or vice-versa (Smikeol anyone?), but they are in the minority here.
i think a lot of it has to do with how you choose to remember it. though what i went through in twi sometimes makes me angry, there are other times when the absurdity of it all--and my incredible stupidity--makes me laugh. even things that were unimaginably bad at the time.
when i was in residence at hq, for example, there was an incident between lcm and me that dragged on for days. (years, if you count my assignment after graduation, handpicked by craigsy to show me who was boss!) it was a total nightmare going through it, probably my single worst twi experience, but now it plays like a sitcom in my head.
does dwelling on the years wasted, etc., etc. do us any good? i've been there, and every so often i'll be reminded of the price i paid for postponing my life all those years. but the most miserable people i know are those who can't let go of the past. those who can't remember the good times among the bad. and life's too short to be miserable all the time.
for me, even the sh!ttiest of times weren't all sh!tty. there were always bright spots. and maybe i'm just lucky that they're the times i tend to remember.
I'm sure the passengers on the Titanic had some wonderful moments during their cruise, but somehow I'll bet that that wasn't the focus of much of their conversations about their trip afterwards...
But just like some of us, those passengers didn't know how the trip would end.........
I agree, it was the people that we were with that made it special.......I just don't see how you could not remember the sweet fellowship of others. My most fondest memories are my couple years in NC with Way Marketing - a part of my youth to remember - and yes, same here, if it hadn't been for the love-bombing, I may have committed suicide when I was 18......................but all of a sudden these people were there and life became worth living again.........I don't understand the logic of it, that is why I always feel that my participation in this cult, in the early years, was God-driven (even though that doesn't make any sense does it?)........(that God would introduce a yearing child to him thrugh a cult) that's what still makes it very confusing for me even now....when I read the threads....."Was it once good and not good just now" or has it always been "the bad cult".........
Outofdafog...I wrestle with these very same issues.....The only thing I can reconcile is that there are a whole LOT of scriptures describing snares, false prophets, wolves in sheeps clothing....I think that the reason that it is so emphasised is because that the counterfit is so difficult to distinguish from the genuine.
It has to look really really good in order to lure people into the snare.
I think that there were some VERY good people that got lured into that snare for a time, people who were a blessing, who ministered to people.
I think that there were many genuine Christians involved in twi....but not at the top.
I think that the badness was always there, but managed to hide behind the wholesom faces of the genuine christians that became ensnared in their trap....thus becoming the bait or lure if you will for the next victims...
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CoolWaters
White Dove, this one's for you...
The best of times for me in twi were the times like what you've described, danteh: coffee at Sambo's and Denny's; ice cream on hot summer nights at DQ--we would all (sometimes as many as 15 or so) walk up there in a group after twig or branch meetings (from 915 Western, Dove, to the DQ on 17th) and be all excited about the 'hot bible' we had just heard and be talking about it and how it applied to our lives--then we'd get to DQ and sometimes nearly have another twig meeting right there--we'd pray, pull out our bibles and look again at what we had just learned, witness, have healing sessions and sometimes even believer's meetings, and so often others at DQ would stand around and listen; going to Gage park to hang out with each other and so often end up doing the same thing as at DQ; going to Emporia (in a 'WOWmobile' full to nearly overflowing with all of us) to help out and for services and special meetings, praying the whole way that the car would make it and the gas would be enough to get us there and back, taking the back roads when we didn't have enough for toll; sitting around the branch home listening to BY sing while accompanying himself on his beautiful 12-string Ovation roundback (and I still long to hear him again); waiting for my boyfriend at the branch home and all of a sudden someone jumping down off the stair banister yelling something totally hilarious; the joyous, spontaneous, heartfelt laughter; the happy tears of seeing someone get deliverance--even in a 'small' way; the excitement of the bible opening up to our understanding.
These things were the best of times in twi for me.
White Dove, I haven't forgotten...and I never will. Love ya, dude.
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skyrider
The best of times, for me..........were the outdoorsy get-togethers.
Our branch (five twigs) had planned an afternoon and evening at a nearby park and lake area. Two believers had access to boats. The whole afternoon was planned with fun and games and fellowship. some of the games were beach volleyball, horseshoes, a water balloon fight, water fun for the kiddos, frisbees, and a few other things. Water skiing and tubing made for lots of fun and plenty of laughs.
We had a pot bless supper......baked beans, potatoe salad, chips & dip, munchies, veggies......and we grilled plenty of hot dogs and hamburgers. Also, we made sure that there was extra in case anyone witnessed to some people (I remember 3 new people joining in and sticking around).
After supper, the branch guy taught us some bible for about 20 minutes...manifestattions, prayer, a couple of songs....and sweet fellowship into the night. With an open campfire and s'mores and victory sharings.... the day was ONE FOR THE MEMORIES.
For two years, we had branch activities like this........a slice of heavenly fellowship.
:) :)
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topoftheworld
For me, it was the first two years of involvement. I could not have asked to be with a better group (well, except for the woman in whose Way Home we were living burning it down for the insurance
).
This was a group from the San Fernando valley in L.A. We were together almost every night, because we liked each other. As Cool described, getting together after Twig for discussions were always very special. Otherwise, we would have lawn parties and invite the neighbors. We would go to the beach and have fires and singing. We'd go camping together. We'd put on special events for holidays. We'd go cruising up and down the main drag, sometimes for fun, sometimes to witness.
We laughed-all the time. We cried with each other as each was going through their own growing pains. We rejoiced at weddings and births. It really was a time of growth, with little outside interference. And when most finally went their own ways (WOW, Corps, instate programs), it ended much too soon.
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TheHighWay
Great memories:
My first Rock of Ages.
My first PFAL class.
My first time visiting Emporia.
The best was pretty much the first few years, when all I saw was the surface of twi and the depth of God's Word.
After that, it flipped.
I saw the more and more of the underbelly of twi, and more of the just the surface of the Word.
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excathedra
best of times, going against the "system" with friends in emporia in that program ;)
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Carl Smuda
Best of times was twig three times a week. almost daily fellowship and Word, singing, praying, and manifestations. Doing lots of fun stuff together with an occassional PFAL along the way. The best was on the Island of Guam. that fellowship I realized walking by the spirit and the love and fun.
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Belle
The best of times was the spontaneous get-togethers and sitting around chatting after fellowships. That was my first year in TWI and those times became more rare after that first year.
The worst of times was when they started planning and forcing times like those spontaneous ones. I remember we would plan parties, game nights, etc. but nobody really wanted to be there and everyone was pretending to be having a good time. It just wasn't so much fun once it was required and you were expected to be there and to have fun - damnit!
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George Aar
I'm sorry Danteh,
I guess you mean well, and certainly seem like a nice-enough person, but PUHLEEZE!
We were in a farking CULT! How pleasant the conversation was from time to time, or how much fun it was mowing the Limb Home lawn with our friends, or other esoteric activities is meaningless.
The overall effect of the whole organization was to hem you in, put reins on you, stifle your individuality and DRAIN YOUR RESOURCES. There was no point where it was a "good" ministry. It was a twisted, pathological, HARMFUL, self-serving POS outfit from it's inception.
The fact that we were thrown a bone from time to time or managed to still have a laugh or two in between the BS is entirely irrelevant.
We DIDN'T learn any special, secret "truths" - unknown for ages. We didn't find any special entre unto the Almighty. And we sure as hell didn't have any "abundant life" if you compare us with our contemporaries.
Jeezus GAWD, we were scammed, played for fools, abused, used, and degraded. That we somehow managed to still chuckle every now and then doesn't mitigate the reality of that...
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skyrider
George..........appreciate your words and the cold splash of REALITY.
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CoolWaters
George, you're right and most of us know it. However, I'm beginning to look at things more like as a marriage gone terribly awry instead of a dark hole from the get-go.
The things I experienced during the love-bombing stage were genuine...the people (except for a small handful) were genuinely nice to me and I to them, we genuinely enjoyed one another's company, we genuinely were out to make our ideals happen, we genuinely had no clue how bad things were going to get for so many of us. None but a handful knew that the love-bombing was a tactic and was going to end abruptly once it was deemed that we were sufficiently hooked. We thought the love-bombing was the whole goal.
That's the joy and the folly of youth, imo.
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topoftheworld
You know, I've had really bad jobs, but I can look back and remember some good things.
I had a horrible upbringing, but I can look back and remember some good things.
I've had really bad relationships, but I can look back and remember some good things.
I was in a cult-but I can look back and remember some good things.
Looking back at the good times doesn't mean that we don't NOW know what it was. It's part of our life history. I don't consider it "irrelevant". My memories of the times with my friends are something I cherish very much, and they saved my life when I was comtemplating sucide at the tender age of seventeen.
I appreciate the difficulties which were blended into the picture (believe me I do) but I remember the best of times for what they were, and no one will ever take that away.
So thanks, Danteh, for making me smile.
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George Aar
I understand what you're saying Topper,
But whenever this topic comes along (and it has several times), it always strikes me as being more than a little bit in denial. Yeah, we had some good times. Geeze, doesn't EVERYBODY? But to pick those elements out as if to indicate that there was indeed some real, basic goodness in the whole experience I think is unhealthy.
I'm sure the passengers on the Titanic had some wonderful moments during their cruise, but somehow I'll bet that that wasn't the focus of much of their conversations about their trip afterwards...
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WordWolf
From what I've seen,
"the best of times"
was either (or both):
A) when I was new, didn't know the "behind the curtain" details,
and before it got a lot more legalistic
or
B) when a bunch of us just went off and did stuff because we enjoyed
each other's company, before that became mandatory
Seems everybody has the same answers on that.
(Except for a few who say it was always the best of times.)
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rascal
The things I remember that I loved best were the feelings of having a mission, an important job to do...that I was in an intense spiritual battle fighting Satan and doing my darndest to strike a blow or two for God.
I liked the feeling that somehow I was making a difference in the world.
I loved being with people who were living their lives unselfishly ...having a bigger picture than just their own daily existance.
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bowtwi
Rascal pretty well said it for me too. I really loved being a part of what I believed was a clean, well-intended bunch of God's people who basically just wanted to live lives that pleased God and in doing so lived very well.
The community of people raising kids according to the Word was great support and wonderful company.
The worst was that last couple hours of my association with the way - that really sucked bad. (Most of the first 15 years was great, tho.)
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danteh1
Hi George
I appreciate the comments and TRUE, TWI was a a cult under all of the legal terms.
BUT, the main reason i started the thread was to look back on some of the things that some of us "old timers" can remember. That there was such a thing as love and some good fellowship before headquarters started getting into more of a heavy hand and controlling the fine points of how fellowships were run.
I got in in 1974 while in the U.S. Navy Seabees in Puerto Rico. Littlehawk, Gary Matsuk, myself and about 2 other ppl were in the class i took. Back then we all had a great time. going into San Juan and fellowshipping with the brothers and sisters there. The 2 pople in charge at that time in San Juan were Charles Henry Rixs and Ian Murphy. They were to me pretty nice people to have as leaders.
I also know that as time went on that things went sour with TWI, with all of the legal mumbo jumbo.
But my name of the thread was for people here on GSC to remember all of the good times and not so much of the bad that came later. I know that for me to remember a lot of the bad times, and belive me that i could tell some stories that are almost as bad as some people have told already it would make a person want to sit down and cry.
thats why i thought that some would like to have a place to remember the good times and even better friends from a otherwise bad time in thier life.
Hope that i havent made anyone mad at me or anything but was hoping to have something to help people remember at least something good. :unsure: :unsure:
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GarthP2000
At the risk of giving my own Oldies-impersonation, I'm going to disagree with the "There was NO good in TWI, because it was a God Damn CULT ©, and that's all there is to it!" goosestepp--err opinion. ... Now stop and think of how 'cultish' that opinion would come off as, hmmmm?
((Ohh noo! He's going thru denial! He's going thru denial! ..... Whatever!
))
It was a mixed bag folks. Yes, there was good in the group, because there was good people endeavoring to do good for people, and for God. And even tho' I threw away religion and related views, I'm not going to deny that there were those who sincerely believed in their God, and tried to sincerely help people with what they thought/believed was true at the time. Even if a lot of it was found/determined not to be later on.
Basically, it was the people in it trying to help that appealed to others, not VPW or LCM.
So spare us the "But it's a CULT!" routine to prove your point, ok? ... 'Cult' under legal terms? :blink: Got a flash for ya. There *IS* no 'legal' term for 'cult'.
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George Aar
Well, out of respect for Garth's delicate sensibilities, I'll refrain from using the "c" word, but...
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that reminiscing about the warm and fuzzy experiences we had in WayWorld often ends up deliberately overlooking what the organization really was.
Sure there were some wonderful people there and I'm sure lots of us had fun drinking malteds down at Wally's Sugar Shack while one or another of us sought out some chump with a willing ear to listen to our Way-flavored dogma. But doesn't the reality of what it was that we were involved with taint all of those experiences?
Do the good times one had while hawking Amway products still retain their lustre after you've finally figured out that Amway made a fool out of you? How about German soldiers sharing stories about the time they all got drunk and burned down the Jew's house on their street? Or maybe the UFO-logists remembering the great times they had waiting for the Mother Ship to come and rescue them?
I think the context of our experiences DOES matter. And the fact that we WASTED years of our lives, money, resources, and our life energy pursuing a fictional, twisted, neo-fascist dream is more than embarassing to me. It's downright shameful and depressing.
Sorry, that's how I feel about it...
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Carl Smuda
All I remember are the good times. I have to think to pick out the bad. Unto the pure all things are pure and to them that are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure. Ann Frank spoke of the good in us all. In the face of all the facts that poor little Jew Girl went to the showers & the ovens. So we love her diary for its blind faith. And yet it was this distortion of reality that allows evil to triumph. Why do we do this?
I can spell out the bad hurts and boo-boos. And yet what my mind wants to remember is that under TWI I worshipped in spirit for the first time. I fellowshiped and helped build up the body with those guys. I learned to study the scriptures and I learned to walk by the spirit. And yet there was bad. After TWI I know I lead at least three different people into worshipping in the spirit. but wait. maybe that's not real. I'm hindu now but I can still speak-in-tongues. My Wife wants to find a church for the sake of the children. She lets our kids watch the Siimpson's, SpongeBod, and Ren&Stimpy but is afraid of what they might learn in any given church. :blink:
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coolchef
we got witnessed to by kerry holstear and greg hones who were wow from michigan who were sent to maine
there were 3 of us couples who had friends for years
we bit into it and a twig was formed. it was wonderful.
we 3 couples witnessed to other of our friends and family and for 7 or 8 years it was sweet.
i still love kerry and greg to this day.
as a matter of fact greg married one of our local believers and have raised a wonderful family.
we all helped each other through marrages new births and deaths
we all babysat each others kids etc etc etc
we were really family
the gathering place seemed to be my house all year round and aroun the pool in the summer
it was sweet
and then it fell apart but
the most important thing is
most of us are still friend and family
we have seen our kid grow and have kids of their own
were there good times?
imo the answer is a resounding yes
by the way i hated limb,branch,and root functions
it was so verry plastic
peace
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GarthP2000
Hey George,
How about seeing both points? 1) Our 'warm and fuzzy experiences', and 2) what VPW & Co. really turned out to be. Can't the human mind have the capacity to realize both here?
And ya know, there are a LOT of folks here that do exactly that. Realize and detail both the good AND the bad. Now maybe there are the few who just cannot see the bad for the good, or vice-versa (Smikeol anyone?), but they are in the minority here.
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sprawled out
i think a lot of it has to do with how you choose to remember it. though what i went through in twi sometimes makes me angry, there are other times when the absurdity of it all--and my incredible stupidity--makes me laugh. even things that were unimaginably bad at the time.
when i was in residence at hq, for example, there was an incident between lcm and me that dragged on for days. (years, if you count my assignment after graduation, handpicked by craigsy to show me who was boss!) it was a total nightmare going through it, probably my single worst twi experience, but now it plays like a sitcom in my head.
does dwelling on the years wasted, etc., etc. do us any good? i've been there, and every so often i'll be reminded of the price i paid for postponing my life all those years. but the most miserable people i know are those who can't let go of the past. those who can't remember the good times among the bad. and life's too short to be miserable all the time.
for me, even the sh!ttiest of times weren't all sh!tty. there were always bright spots. and maybe i'm just lucky that they're the times i tend to remember.
so sue me! :P
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outofdafog
I'm sure the passengers on the Titanic had some wonderful moments during their cruise, but somehow I'll bet that that wasn't the focus of much of their conversations about their trip afterwards...
But just like some of us, those passengers didn't know how the trip would end.........
I agree, it was the people that we were with that made it special.......I just don't see how you could not remember the sweet fellowship of others. My most fondest memories are my couple years in NC with Way Marketing - a part of my youth to remember - and yes, same here, if it hadn't been for the love-bombing, I may have committed suicide when I was 18......................but all of a sudden these people were there and life became worth living again.........I don't understand the logic of it, that is why I always feel that my participation in this cult, in the early years, was God-driven (even though that doesn't make any sense does it?)........(that God would introduce a yearing child to him thrugh a cult) that's what still makes it very confusing for me even now....when I read the threads....."Was it once good and not good just now" or has it always been "the bad cult".........
Because I do have good memories too.......
These are things I am still trying to unravel
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rascal
Outofdafog...I wrestle with these very same issues.....The only thing I can reconcile is that there are a whole LOT of scriptures describing snares, false prophets, wolves in sheeps clothing....I think that the reason that it is so emphasised is because that the counterfit is so difficult to distinguish from the genuine.
It has to look really really good in order to lure people into the snare.
I think that there were some VERY good people that got lured into that snare for a time, people who were a blessing, who ministered to people.
I think that there were many genuine Christians involved in twi....but not at the top.
I think that the badness was always there, but managed to hide behind the wholesom faces of the genuine christians that became ensnared in their trap....thus becoming the bait or lure if you will for the next victims...
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