Well, I started a list on the other thread. Let's add to it. If you add to the list, copy and paste the previous list and add to it (so WordWolf doesn't do it) ;)
Geer groups:
1. No. Calif: Doug Seed
2. So. Calif: Dan Moran / about 100-150 a few years back
So. Calif: Andy Zitelli / about 40-50
3. San Diego: Bob Lindfelt
4. Ohio: Johnny Townsend (only one licensed; others run the local groups) - 50ish
5. Wisconsin: Howard Stein
6. Indiana: Rich Watkins / about 50-60 in No. & Central IN
7. Illinois: Naperville - Bob Cardin
8. Illinois: Former Joe Guarini group: Now Joe Jr.? - - approx. 150?
9. NJ: Jerry Carr
10. AZ: Dave Standage / approx. 50
11. Charlottesville, Virginia: Earl Burton
12.
CES/Spirit & Truth:
Anyone know approx. #s and states?
Christian Family Fellowship: John Shroyer & Wayne Clapp
States????
Vince Finnegan's group: don't know name
Atlanta Bible Fellowship: Bo & Stanley Reahard
Bibel Center: Wolfgang Schneider
Austin, TX: Dean Ellenwood
Columbus, Ohio: Tom Burke, et al
Washington State: a lot of the Strauhals
Washington, D.C. area: Bruce Mahone/ Tom Jenkinson / Ken McCaw
Tennessee: (whole bunch of folks down there; I forget the guy's name who does the family camp there every year, but know that Brian Bliss lives there and is involved)
Well, that's a start. The rest of you fill in what you know. States, local areas, numbers, names. Maybe we can get a comprehensive list.
we talk about how twi's numbers have dwindled, but is there any way of knowing how many people are being impacted by various versions of twi doctrine through the offshoots?
Me, too. John officiated our wedding. Visited their fellowship several years ago, big crowd, lots of fun, had a pot-luck after it. Teaching made me stop and think - just sounded off. Later found out was from the latest magazine from Geer (pretty sure that's who it was). Know it's the group that is never allowed to mention the name of vpw. Which group is that?
Scratch that as a spin off. Hasn't been active for over 5 years. They moved to Tampa and were attending an Episcopalian church near their beautiful home. But I think they got ousted for speaking up too much about corruption within and contradictory doctrine.
They are retired and travel a lot and stay in touch with friends all over. But no spin off. Very level headed.
.. splinter groups that are apparently flourishing all over the joint
Flourishing?
flourish
–verb (used without object) 1. to be in a vigorous state; thrive:
2. to be in its or in one's prime; be at the height of fame, excellence, influence, etc.
3. to be successful; prosper.
4. to grow luxuriantly, or thrive in growth, as a plant.
5. to make dramatic, sweeping gestures
I know that there may be quite a few splinter groups but Ive never heard of any that are 'flourishing',
The ones that I know of, and the ones I have seen are generally havens for anywhere from a handful to a few hundred or so ex wayfers who are actually regularly involved ( if that) in the bigger ones, with a lot of crossover on the mailing lists, tape subscriptions, books and seminars.
quote: johniam, i feel sorry for anyone involved with psycho bus driver.
Why? He runs things differently than TWI and every spinoff I've seen. He's not trying to be the MOG. He has classes and stuff but he totally lets his leaders deal with their people the way they want. He gets prayed for a lot, but I've never met him. Back in early June I attended a weekend fellowship in Tennessee done by John Hill. Never heard CGs name mentioned once. It was all about the word.
dmiller and mstar1, i've got a crazy idea. how about we try just responding to the question, huh?
Well the question made no sense to me. No offshoot is "flourishng" in my neck of the woods . None--.--or anywhere else as far as I can tell. So the question was ambiguous. I have never heard of any offshoot that is flourishing, let alone many -so I have no idea what you are asking
The two groups in my region have about 15 people apiece if that, the same people who have been going forever. One guy makes his living off of selling tapes and books to other small groups and the other guy has a fulltime job and sends money to the Geerites and the Lynnites and the Sidesites and just about everyone else with the pretense of a ministry who doesnt care to work a real job and has aprinter or a tape duplicater
So I know a total of about 30 who each 'belong' to most all of those groups named on the first page but about 2/3rds of them also go to a church. So how do you count them then 10 total?
Of those 10 they are each probably counted as 'members' in more than one os those 'flourishing' groups, but if they actually do more than sit home and listen to an occasional tape from them I'd be surprised
mstar--your response indicates you understood the question well enough, you just had an issue with the word "flourishing." if we're gonna be straining at gnats here, let's at least be accurate: i wrote "apparently flourishing." so there really should be no issue, unless you want one.
we know some of the names or the people we want to know how or what they are doing.
We would notice something that is part of our past easy right? we have feelings sometimes rather strong about the ordeal we lived in , so the offshoots and what they are doing is easy on the eye for us.
no one cares what is going on in the popes life. ha no offense met but ya know what I mean?
Yeah Johniam, maybe your buddy is a nice guy and runs nice fellowships....but that is what will suck people in (just like in twi) ...people who expect the same wholesom christian character in other members of geers group and will instead experience abuse and cruelty.
Your buddy recieves materials and teachings from a guy who`s doctrine didn`t prevent him from being a viscious, psycho freak.
It is guilt by association, so yeah it is a pity....the well meaning guy is promoting evil.
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sprawled out
gee, now i understand, tom. i didn't realize you were nobly defending a couple of nice guys. i thought you were just being an a**hole. thanks for clearing that up.
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TOMMYZ
I think it would be interesting to come up with a list of splinter groups so we could have an overall picture.
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jardinero
Well, I started a list on the other thread. Let's add to it. If you add to the list, copy and paste the previous list and add to it (so WordWolf doesn't do it) ;)
Geer groups:
1. No. Calif: Doug Seed
2. So. Calif: Dan Moran / about 100-150 a few years back
So. Calif: Andy Zitelli / about 40-50
3. San Diego: Bob Lindfelt
4. Ohio: Johnny Townsend (only one licensed; others run the local groups) - 50ish
5. Wisconsin: Howard Stein
6. Indiana: Rich Watkins / about 50-60 in No. & Central IN
7. Illinois: Naperville - Bob Cardin
8. Illinois: Former Joe Guarini group: Now Joe Jr.? - - approx. 150?
9. NJ: Jerry Carr
10. AZ: Dave Standage / approx. 50
11. Charlottesville, Virginia: Earl Burton
12.
CES/Spirit & Truth:
Anyone know approx. #s and states?
Christian Family Fellowship: John Shroyer & Wayne Clapp
States????
Vince Finnegan's group: don't know name
Atlanta Bible Fellowship: Bo & Stanley Reahard
Bibel Center: Wolfgang Schneider
Austin, TX: Dean Ellenwood
Columbus, Ohio: Tom Burke, et al
Washington State: a lot of the Strauhals
Washington, D.C. area: Bruce Mahone/ Tom Jenkinson / Ken McCaw
http://www.cabsf.org/Home%20Fellowships.htm
Tennessee: (whole bunch of folks down there; I forget the guy's name who does the family camp there every year, but know that Brian Bliss lives there and is involved)
Well, that's a start. The rest of you fill in what you know. States, local areas, numbers, names. Maybe we can get a comprehensive list.
J.
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excathedra
Geer groups:
1. No. Calif: Doug Seed
2. So. Calif: Dan Moran / about 100-150 a few years back
So. Calif: Andy Zitelli / about 40-50
3. San Diego: Bob Lindfelt
4. Ohio: Johnny Townsend (only one licensed; others run the local groups) - 50ish
5. Wisconsin: Howard Stein
6. Indiana: Rich Watkins / about 50-60 in No. & Central IN
7. Illinois: Naperville - Bob Cardin
8. Illinois: Former Joe Guarini group: Now Joe Jr.? - - approx. 150?
9. NJ: Jerry Carr
10. AZ: Dave Standage / approx. 50
11. Charlottesville, Virginia: Earl Burton
12. how disgusting (sowwy)
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dmiller
Who cares???
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Suda
TN Geer Group (I think), John and Holly Hill in Brentwood, TN
Also a Geer group in Boise, Idaho that Michael Lilley is a part of
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excathedra
i'm really saddened to hear about john and holly
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Suda
Me, too. John officiated our wedding. Visited their fellowship several years ago, big crowd, lots of fun, had a pot-luck after it. Teaching made me stop and think - just sounded off. Later found out was from the latest magazine from Geer (pretty sure that's who it was). Know it's the group that is never allowed to mention the name of vpw. Which group is that?
Suda
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johniam
You guys are pretty judgemental.
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Cynic
Metaphorically kicking myself for having been such a religious ignoramus and worthless heretic that I got John Hill involved with TWI.
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johniam
I know John Hill. He's a good guy. Is. Present tense. You talk about him like he's got cancer just cause he's with Geer. Ridiculous.
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igotout
Atlanta Bible Fellowship: Bo & Stanley Reahard
Scratch that as a spin off. Hasn't been active for over 5 years. They moved to Tampa and were attending an Episcopalian church near their beautiful home. But I think they got ousted for speaking up too much about corruption within and contradictory doctrine.
They are retired and travel a lot and stay in touch with friends all over. But no spin off. Very level headed.
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WhiteDove
Are Steve and Kelly Munro stiull doing the atlanta fellowship maybe? they are listed also on the web page.
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mstar1
I know that there may be quite a few splinter groups but Ive never heard of any that are 'flourishing',
The ones that I know of, and the ones I have seen are generally havens for anywhere from a handful to a few hundred or so ex wayfers who are actually regularly involved ( if that) in the bigger ones, with a lot of crossover on the mailing lists, tape subscriptions, books and seminars.
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excathedra
cynic, were you going door-to-door ? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
johniam, i feel sorry for anyone involved with psycho bus driver. and i love john hill.
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skyrider
Other splinter groups/movements:
Larry Panarello.....teaching tapes / headed out of Columbus, OH
Dale Sides.....don't remember the name of it
Michael Ruud.....books, tapes, publication "The Ruud Awakening"
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WordWolf
*checks*
Dale Sides has LMCI.
http://www.lmci.org/founder.cfm
Michael Rood,
http://www.michaelrood.com/
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sprawled out
dmiller and mstar1, i've got a crazy idea. how about we try just responding to the question, huh?
yeah, i know. it's crazy.
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rascal
Rich Watkins was a real sh1t when he was in Alabama. He administered my first face melting ...shiver
It was so frightening to have that huge oaf screaming in my face that I never ever twitched a hair out of line of twi thought after that.
He was an idiot too...when jt heard what he had been teaching/requiring the next year in ks...he was livid
Figures that he would go with that psycho Geer <_< Gives him license to feel oh so superior and spiritual about the abuse that he inflicts on people.
Wish that I could run accross that pompous a$$ today...lol
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rascal
Guess there are those of us who want to hear and apreciate dave and mstars contributions even if you don`t sprawled.
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johniam
quote: johniam, i feel sorry for anyone involved with psycho bus driver.
Why? He runs things differently than TWI and every spinoff I've seen. He's not trying to be the MOG. He has classes and stuff but he totally lets his leaders deal with their people the way they want. He gets prayed for a lot, but I've never met him. Back in early June I attended a weekend fellowship in Tennessee done by John Hill. Never heard CGs name mentioned once. It was all about the word.
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mstar1
Well the question made no sense to me. No offshoot is "flourishng" in my neck of the woods . None--.--or anywhere else as far as I can tell. So the question was ambiguous. I have never heard of any offshoot that is flourishing, let alone many -so I have no idea what you are asking
The two groups in my region have about 15 people apiece if that, the same people who have been going forever. One guy makes his living off of selling tapes and books to other small groups and the other guy has a fulltime job and sends money to the Geerites and the Lynnites and the Sidesites and just about everyone else with the pretense of a ministry who doesnt care to work a real job and has aprinter or a tape duplicater
So I know a total of about 30 who each 'belong' to most all of those groups named on the first page but about 2/3rds of them also go to a church. So how do you count them then 10 total?
Of those 10 they are each probably counted as 'members' in more than one os those 'flourishing' groups, but if they actually do more than sit home and listen to an occasional tape from them I'd be surprised
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sprawled out
mstar--your response indicates you understood the question well enough, you just had an issue with the word "flourishing." if we're gonna be straining at gnats here, let's at least be accurate: i wrote "apparently flourishing." so there really should be no issue, unless you want one.
it can be so like the way around here, it sucks.
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pond
maybe we notice more.
we know some of the names or the people we want to know how or what they are doing.
We would notice something that is part of our past easy right? we have feelings sometimes rather strong about the ordeal we lived in , so the offshoots and what they are doing is easy on the eye for us.
no one cares what is going on in the popes life. ha no offense met but ya know what I mean?
like whe an ambulance goes by ya kinda look ..
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rascal
Yeah Johniam, maybe your buddy is a nice guy and runs nice fellowships....but that is what will suck people in (just like in twi) ...people who expect the same wholesom christian character in other members of geers group and will instead experience abuse and cruelty.
Your buddy recieves materials and teachings from a guy who`s doctrine didn`t prevent him from being a viscious, psycho freak.
It is guilt by association, so yeah it is a pity....the well meaning guy is promoting evil.
It is worse than a terminal disease.
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