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J.E. Stiles The Gift of the Holy Spirit book


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1 minute ago, rrobs said:

I am terribly sorry if I've misread or misunderstood you in any way. In general, the web is not the best place to really convey one's thoughts and feelings to another. Gotta take that into account. At least I do. 

I was mistaken about the bristle stuff. Good. But I think there are some who do hate the Bible because of VP. True? I really haven't figured it out yet. If I'm wrong, please tell me. I'll feel like an idiot for a second or two and then go on with a new perspective. Always liked new perspectives. I think they do a person good. Some people don't think that though.

I honestly forget the details on the context thing, but as I recall if the parts where I explicitly said I'm no better than anybody else, and giving a fairly detailed explanation of why I thought that had been included, the last paragraph would have been a different read. Now if I remember correctly, by not including more of my post in the quote, it implied I was holier than every body else. At least that was the exact conclusion you came to. Had you included the whole thing, it would be clear your conclusion was incorrect. That's the difference there.

Do you think I might be doing those things in Isaiah? I hope not. I think I'm OK with God. If I had been a Jew at the time of Isaiah, then I'd be afraid of that verse. Thank God I've been judged and found as righteous as him. Too bad the Jews didn't have that back then. But their day is coming, and a wonderful day it'll be!

Yeah.  the interwebs.   can only express things with emoticons.  :anim-smile:

As far as beliefs or attitudes towards the Bible, it widely varies around here.  Some have rejected Christianity completely post TWI, others have rejected fundamentalism (more extreme views of the Bible), others have ventured into many different areas, including pursuing degrees in Bible research from non-TWI related organizations.  Others have joined splinter groups.  Some splinter groups have their own translation / commentary of the Bible.  I don't think I could assume anything across the board with respect to people's beliefs or attitudes towards the scripture.

On the Isaiah verse, I think it is pretty clear regarding behavior (not people).  Why would it be there as such?  So that people can learn from it.  I really would not get too far off into the administration thinking where NONE of the OT statements apply to us currently.  I mean that verse communicates pretty clearly to me that I am not to cover for evil and call it good.  So it is a warning.  And the warning is there for born again Christians to see so that their behavior does not become worse than those in the OT that didn't have similar privileges.  Do I think you might be doing those things?  Dude, I don't know you at all.  So I think pretty much nothing about what you may or may not be doing in your life.   However, Isaiah can govern guiding us towards what we should be saying and avoiding if we have eyes and ears open.  And I'll guarantee whitewashing evil is not in there.

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4 minutes ago, rrobs said:

God has given us the healthiest dose of love we're ever going to get. Another wonderful part of the new birth. God in Christ (2 Cor 5:19) and Christ is in you (Col 1:27). I think it says somewhere that God is love. He IS love and he's in you. We have all we're ever going to get. What we need to do is learn all about the ramifications of God in Christ in you. All of that is in the Bible. If someone where so inclined to read the Bible and study it, they will learn about God's love. The more you learn the more you act. Learn about love, you begin to love. I understand your sentiment, but maybe you meant we could exhibit a health dose of that love of God that dwells within to our brothers and sisters.

P.S. To all: please feel free to opt out of any of the "we"s in this post. It's just a writing style. The "we" doesn't have to include every single individual who reads this.

Yes I meant exhibiting Christian love.  A display of the concept to indicate an individual has retained and lives the concept.  Figurative language from me.

And if I offended anyone including you in "we" needing more I Cor 13, please let me know.  And rrobs I understand it's a rhetorical "we" that you are intending in your writing style now that you explained it.

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2 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Yeah.  the interwebs.   can only express things with emoticons.  :anim-smile:

As far as beliefs or attitudes towards the Bible, it widely varies around here.  Some have rejected Christianity completely post TWI, others have rejected fundamentalism (more extreme views of the Bible), others have ventured into many different areas, including pursuing degrees in Bible research from non-TWI related organizations.  Others have joined splinter groups.  Some splinter groups have their own translation / commentary of the Bible.  I don't think I could assume anything across the board with respect to people's beliefs or attitudes towards the scripture.

On the Isaiah verse, I think it is pretty clear regarding behavior (not people).  Why would it be there as such?  So that people can learn from it.  I really would not get too far off into the administration thinking where NONE of the OT statements apply to us currently.  I mean that verse communicates pretty clearly to me that I am not to cover for evil and call it good.  So it is a warning.  And the warning is there for born again Christians to see so that their behavior does not become worse than those in the OT that didn't have similar privileges.  Do I think you might be doing those things?  Dude, I don't know you at all.  So I think pretty much nothing about what you may or may not be doing in your life.   However, Isaiah can govern guiding us towards what we should be saying and avoiding if we have eyes and ears open.  And I'll guarantee whitewashing evil is not in there.

Good on Isaiah. I understand we can certainly learn from the OT. However, if we energized the love of God that dwells in us, we would go way beyond Isaiah. Isaiah, the law, was a schoolmaster. God said that not me. It doesn't degrade the law in any way whatsoever. It served it's purpose. But now we can walk in the love of God. To the degree someone walks in love their life will reflect the law, but it's the love that makes it possible. That love was not available until Jesus dies and rose from the dead. Isaiah didn't have it. But we do. I know the more we love God and study his word the more love we will naturally manifest and it will line up with the OT, but it's the love that makes it possible.

We don't even have to judge ourselves. God did and found us worthy. As righteous as he is himself. I might be getting off on a tangent here...

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2 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Yes I meant exhibiting Christian love.  A display of the concept to indicate an individual has retained and lives the concept.  Figurative language from me.

And if I offended anyone including you in "we" needing more I Cor 13, please let me know.  And rrobs I understand it's a rhetorical "we" that you are intending in your writing style now that you explained it.

Love is all we got, Wait a minute...is that Beatles speak? :rolleyes:

I didn't take anything personal. Everybody should lighten up a little about things like "we." Gets too complicated. Pretty soon, we'll be needing lawyers to put things the right way! Noooooooooooooo...............

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2 minutes ago, rrobs said:

Good on Isaiah. I understand we can certainly learn from the OT. However, if we energized the love of God that dwells in us, we would go way beyond Isaiah. Isaiah, the law, was a schoolmaster. God said that not me. It doesn't degrade the law in any way whatsoever. It served it's purpose. But now we can walk in the love of God. To the degree someone walks in love their life will reflect the law, but it's the love that makes it possible. That love was not available until Jesus dies and rose from the dead. Isaiah didn't have it. But we do. I know the more we love God and study his word the more love we will naturally manifest and it will line up with the OT, but it's the love that makes it possible.

We don't even have to judge ourselves. God did and found us worthy. As righteous as he is himself. I might be getting off on a tangent here...

So if in Isaiah I don't whitewash evil to avoid woe, then with the energized love of God dwelling in me in Christ, not only will I not whitewash evil but I will pressure wash the whitewash off of evil?

Sure, I can dig it.

:dance:

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11 minutes ago, waysider said:

rrobs

What methodology or system do you use when you read the Bible? Do you simply read it and take it at face value or do you use some sort of protocol?

For the most part I do what's in PFAL, which VP learned from E. W. Bullinger (at least that's where VP said he learned it). I still find that in the verse, context, used before, oriental isms, and a few other odds and ends works pretty well. Covers most things for me.  I've learned Greek so I use that some also.

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6 minutes ago, chockfull said:

So if in Isaiah I don't whitewash evil to avoid woe, then with the energized love of God dwelling in me in Christ, not only will I not whitewash evil but I will pressure wash the whitewash off of evil?

Sure, I can dig it.

:dance:

I gotta remember that! That's pretty good. I've worked pressure washers.

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12 minutes ago, rrobs said:

Love is all we got, Wait a minute...is that Beatles speak? :rolleyes:

I didn't take anything personal. Everybody should lighten up a little about things like "we." Gets too complicated. Pretty soon, we'll be needing lawyers to put things the right way! Noooooooooooooo...............

That's right.  We absolutely need "secular" references too.

Like Ziggy Marley

 

 

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17 minutes ago, rrobs said:

For the most part I do what's in PFAL, which VP learned from E. W. Bullinger (at least that's where VP said he learned it). I still find that in the verse, context, used before, oriental isms, and a few other odds and ends works pretty well. Covers most things for me.  I've learned Greek so I use that some also.

[I appreciate you're honest that your approach IS PFAL.  That's the biggest problem people are having here-primarily because that approach is limiting and has errors built into it based on taking vpw's word for all sorts of things.  The result is that there's plenty of errors we all should have caught back when we were in twi but never actually looked at closely because we really thought vpw was a godly man whose godly approach to God gave him, personally, a clearer insight into things, and THAT, not plagiarism, is how we got all the twi teachings, pfal materials, and so on.[/b]

Actually, vpw stole the first version of the pfal class ENTIRELY from BG Leonard. This is really old news in the ex-twi community. In fact, he considered those who had taken Leonard's class to be graduates of "his" class as well, without them needing to sit through the material all over again. Later, he added material from JE Stiles' book, and that became material of the last 4 sessions, as well as the major contents of  "Receiving The Holy Spirit Today" (which was what the 1.0 class of pfal was called.)  Later, he added Bulllinger and had material to fill out the middle 4 sessions, and split the class into "Foundational" and "Intermediate" (aka "the TIP class".) ]

 

[The sad part is this: if you take the techniques you mentioned (and the others you referred to), and ruthlessly applied them to the materials you were taught, you'd have a rude awakening of how many things you were taught, and how they had NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER with what the Bible says.  The so-called "Law" of Believing ALONE is enough to make the point clear-the supposed 5 steps are never demonstrated in Scripture or anywhere else. ("Needs and wants Parallel" was explained with this imaginary woman who wanted red drapes.  "She had a need, and the need was, she might as well have red drapes, that's what she wanted."  That was so blatantly illogical that it remained in the taped classes, but the people who edited the books left it out because it made NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.)  Another example is the "Standing vs State" thing, and there's others, of course.]

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1 hour ago, rrobs said:

For the most part I do what's in PFAL, which VP learned from E. W. Bullinger (at least that's where VP said he learned it). I still find that in the verse, context, used before, oriental isms, and a few other odds and ends works pretty well. Covers most things for me.  I've learned Greek so I use that some also.

Aren't you the same guy who questioned why VPW and The Way seem to so often find their way into these discussions? Have you ever questioned whether using those *keys* in PFAL is even a valid approach to understanding the Bible?

 

Hint: It's not.

 

Edit: Sorry, WW. I didn't see you had posted. You said it better than I could.

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9 hours ago, rrobs said:

What in the world does VP have to do with the Bible? He's dead and gone, the Bible is still here.

 

1 hour ago, rrobs said:

For the most part I do what's in PFAL, which VP learned from E. W. Bullinger (at least that's where VP said he learned it). I still find that in the verse, context, used before, oriental isms, and a few other odds and ends works pretty well. Covers most things for me.  I've learned Greek so I use that some also.

 

Little confused here.

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10 hours ago, rrobs said:

With all due respect, you choose to hide your feelings. Nobody held a gun to your head. There might have been pressure to hold your tongue, but it didn't come from the word. It came from people. I think many held VP and twi above the word. It became a cult of VP. The word took back seat. I noticed that when I worked on staff there. I even mentioned it to several people at the time. I saw lot's of forced piety and such. No wonder we are here now.

The leadership should have seen that and corrected it instead of taking advantage of it.

I'm glad you feel free to express them now. Better late than never.

Who do you suppose was responsible for that? Of course, "not" the guy who put his name on other people's work. :rolleyes:

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10 hours ago, rrobs said:

I learned it from the Bible. The only source for truth. Where did your knowledge of the Bible come from?

 

That appears to be either disingenuous or (again) lacking self-awareness. #sad

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10 hours ago, rrobs said:

I really couldn't say everybody else is wrong. I have no real idea what anybody here thinks of the actual Bible. Everybody talks about me way more than the Bible, so no, I don't necessarily think everybody here is wrong. The word of God is "right" not me, you, or anybody else. We are right only to the degree that we align with the word. But I suppose it'll come up, "whose version of the word is right?" I'll tell you right now, not for me to answer.

Sad that you don't even get it when it's set so plainly in front of you.

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On 4/7/2017 at 1:48 AM, WordWolf said:

Rrobs, presuming everything you posted was serious, you're running into some very elementary and very obvious problems.

1) You do not know where you are.  The GSC exists specifically to "tell the other side of the story" with twi, and sometimes with its offspring, the offshoots.  That means that, not only is it NOT a vpw admiration society, it is the opposite of that, and people have told about the many felonies for which vpw would have gone to prison if he had been caught, and if he hadn't been as thorough as he had been in covering his @$$ when raping women and making sure they wouldn't tell on him.   So, posts extolling his brilliance, or ignorant of the rather fundamental flaws of pfal and twi materials, will reflect poorly in this crowd. (vpw plagiarized and often didn't really understand what he plagiarized, so he reproduced correctable errors entirely, and sometimes quoted incorrectly and contradicted himself, and sometimes added a few things to make himself sound like he was walking around getting revelation when he was using hidden sources for his (often wrong) claims, and occasionally adding a bit of charlatan showmanship to make it look more convincing.) 

2) Furthermore, posts which reflect a vocabulary centered around twi-speak that also include claims that the poster examined vpw's work independently and thoroughly expose a rather marked lack of thoroughness in that department.

3) The GSC exists to "tell the other side of the story." It is not a Christian messageboard, nor does it need to be.  There's no universal consensus on doctrine among posters that represent a variety of Christian positions, Jewish, atheist, agnostic, wiccan, etc.   So, expecting everyone here to agree on the Bible as THE standard is not effective, even if it's not as volatile as trying to get them to agree on twi materials as THE standard. 

4) Because there's such a variety of posters, there's no one official consensus.  However, you'll notice that nearly all the posters agree about vpw's plagiarism having been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and about his rapes and molestations having been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  That's because they're so well-documented and tracked after the fact that people from greatly-differing perspectives agree on them.

5) If what you're looking for is "the cheerful posts", the GSC is not the best forum for you. It's here to INFORM.  Do you look to the evening news for your daily dose of sunshine?  Furthermore, there's threads that are fairly cheerful. They're NOT in the forum where we discuss vpw's felonies.

6) Much of the time, we don't need to rehash the same felonies here-  except when someone arrives and announces they didn't happen or that they were exaggerated or that it's fine that vpw was a plagiarist and rapist or whatever. THEN we have to get into the same old horse manure all over again.

7) The fact that we've informed people about vpw's felonies and so on does not mean we spend all our free time being depressed, negative people. We all have lives, and they're not on this board.  The blithe dismissal of people with fantasies that this is how they spend their off-time is trite, and one defense mechanism of those who desperately want to imagine vpw was half the man he claimed he was.

8) If you really want to get into Doctrine, post in Doctrinal. If you want some light-hearted fun, we have gaming threads. in the Movies/Music forum.  If you just want to repeat how wonderful vpw was and twi was without finding out why we disagree so strongly, this is the wrong messageboard for you. There's closed communities online that do little else but that very thing. They welcome another poster parroting the party line and would love to have you.  If that's NOT what you want, then pay a little attention and consider changing your approach here.  All the wayspeak, posted here, is a lot like someone showing up to a Holocaust Survivor panel in a Nazi uniform and playing the jackboot.

 

 

 

 

 

Somehow, this was overlooked..

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6 hours ago, waysider said:

For the most part I do what's in PFAL, which VP learned from E. W. Bullinger (at least that's where VP said he learned it). I still find that in the verse, context, used before, oriental isms, and a few other odds and ends works pretty well. Covers most things for me.  I've learned Greek so I use that some also.

"I find it interesting that everybody here attacks me personally. Nobody address the things I say about the word. You keep wanting to make it about VP. Nobody here really knows my thinking on VP or the twi because I've said next to nothing about either. Go back and look. My interest is in the word. I started this post by saying I don't care how I got the word, VP, Stiles, Buillinger, or whatever or whoever doesn't matter. I'm pro word and seldom think about VP, twi, or any splinter group. I'm involved with NO group whatsoever. I've not been to one fellowship with the Way or any splinter group. My thoughts are my own. True, some line up with what VP says, but that doesn't mean VP channels through me when I speak."

"Okay Rich. So what's the Julian Bible Institute that your e-mail address blabs about?? Not a group???? YOU LIE! Typical of brainwashed personality cultists. Congratulations! You have proven yourself once again! LMAO!"

YO! Rich! You never answered my question until you posted what I quoted at the opening of this post. EVERY ONE OF THOSE WHO HAVE RESPONDED TO YOUR ORIGINAL POST AND THOSE FOLLOWING, HAVE KNOWN THIS SINCE THAT FIRST POST. LOL! And you have the idiocy to repeatedly tell us we're busy "attack(ing) you personally" because YOU love da woid, you live da woid, and you do da woid "all 9 all the time". YOU are "pro-woid". LMAO!

Your qualifications?? A first time, one-cult intro to Moses David's version of Cheezus which caused you to double over in terrible pain but created a new life for you immediately from that point on. "Saved, reborn, converted whatchya call it now". Wonderful!

Then a second-cult wonder, Dictor Paul Wierwille, taught you that da woid was above every thing! Even God's name and that PIA "absent Christ"! He plagiarized Bullinger, Leonard, and Stiles (among numerous others) VERBATIM and told you it was his greatness and "in-depth spiritual perception and awareness" that put them all together so da woid "fit like a hand in a glove!", and gave him all the revelation daily, necessary to keep on "putting it all together", to "bless mah peep-ull". LOL! Then, he plagiarized Bullinger's "How To Enjoy The Bible" which YOU still use as if it too was "God-breathed". And then, he plagiarized J.E. Stiles and "led you into tongues" so you'd "know that you know that you know that you're going to heaven and all hell can't stop you!" Then, because of your own "in-depth spiritual perception and awareness, YOU were able to see through all the "bullshit sins of Vic's 'dead flesh', and "wind up" right back with COG in THEIR living room doing whatever the hell it is they do. Hope you enjoyed the sex. LOL!

Now, 31 years after you returned to COG from TWIt, you show up here as if you are some great new "nothing-but-the-rightly-divided word teacher" that is in the position to tell the whole world how much YOU know about the Bible that you never learned from dictor paul or from attending ANY TWIt or offshoot "fellowship" since 1986. Great credentials for the Julian Bible Institute to base itself on. A two-cult bible education. LOL!

NOBODY "attacks you personally" here. That's a bullshit "playing-the-victim" card you try to pawn off as if we who have been here for 17 years plus WayDale, have never seen this stoopeed dog and pony show before here at the GSC. You envy the GSC. That's why you troll here. There are thousands of members here with almost a million posts. YOU'D love for the Julian Bible Institute to have a following like that wouldn't you?? Oh no! Because ALL YOU care about is "da woid". All you think about is "da woid". All you wanna talk about is "da woid". Why? Because that's YOUR OWN LITTLE SAFE SPACE. YOU can say whatever you want. You can believe whatever you want. You can judge whomever you choose to. You can lecture and condemn all those who disagree with your regurgitated horseshit. You can again be "captain of ambassador one" and take your woid over da woild! LOL! You can't handle life outside your false Bible bubble.

You're a pimp Rich! You serve no Jesus Christ, the Son of God. You never knew Him! You knew Moses David and dictor paul wierwille, and their versions of a Jesus who did not, never did, and does not exist in their interpretations of "da woid". He exists only in the self-contained cult theologies of churchianity and personality, but nowhere in the Bible. When you get to your non-existent "bema" you won't get rewards or gold medals as an "athlete of the Spirit", but you'll be hearing "I never knew you" many times before "they let you in"!

Rich, if you really want to "Minister da woid" to the thousands of well-educated Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews , atheists, agnostics, and good old regular human beings here at the GSC, I suggest you dismount your self-righteous, self-serving cult-speak, high horse, get real, realize YOU don't know the Bible like it hasn't been known since the first century, or that you're some prophet in the wilderness of sin yelling at every one who disagrees with your personally twisted interpretations of The Bible, and get HONEST! Admit you're trolling for New Julian Bible Institute sycophants YOU can teach da woid to, and get tithes from. Good night, gawd bless, you're the best!!

 

Edited by DontWorryBeHappy
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