Hey. I got involved a few months after vpw died--but didn't wise up and leave until several years after the lawsuits hit. I wanted to "stay faithful to the ministry that taught me the Word" ya know--so I stayed like a good little waybot. It wasn't until I finally realized that leadership no longer cared about God's kids that I left.
I just realized I didn't say what my situation was when I started this thing!
Sorry about that.
I was raised in twi from 12 or so on. I thought it was right and correct and everything else. First place I came to that actually read the Bible instead of talking around it. (Then again, I was 12, what the heck did I know?) My whole family became involved.
So, I thought this was the end all be all... And I continued to think this until a couple years back.
Nope, not the lawsuit - that didn't give me a clue (besides, I only thought it was a consenual affair and a "mistake" never knew it was a plural...)
Not so smart... Oh well...
Anyway... I think I started to realize what was happening when the teachings started to change in their style. Everything seemed to be read and forced... no individuality of the teacher involved. And everything was suddenly being taught straight out of the Blue Book. Seemed like if there had been such a sudden change, something was wrong.... it was either wrong previously, or it was wrong now.
<_<
So I started THINKING about stuff from before when LCM ran things and now... I compared the two and didn't just come to the conclusion that this was a "kinder, gentler" twi. I started seeing things that had been taught wrongly. The whole "all women belong to the king" crap was the start, because after the meeting we had to attend with the explanation of the lawsuit, that was the first thing one of the old timers said to justify LCM's actions. It didn't make sense to me at all... but then again, I thought I just needed to become more spiritual.
But later I really started to consider things and I saw a lot of holes. First, only in LCM's teachings - for instance the whole concept that you could become so strong in an area that the adversary would never be able to attack you there again. What a crock of poo! In that case, Jesus Christ never would have been attacked, right? And then I started thinking about Jesus Christ more and more and the things that were taught in twi and how they applied to him. And they didn't match logically. Like, if weakness always brings down strength, then how did Jesus Christ even begin to minister to ANYONE EVER?
As this train of thought kept going down its tracks, I started to examine other things we had been taught... One by one, it started to crumble, and I saw that the focus was not on God, Jesus Christ, or even on taking care of the believers. It all seemed to center around leadership, specifically the MOG.
The only conclusion I could come to was that something was definately not right... and then I started talking to people... and I started to realize that there had been more going on with the "MOG" that what we had been told.
And I started to get angry. I had sacrificed relationships and people to this IDOL that was twi. And twi didn't even have the balls to stand up and say what had really happened.
I got involved at around 23 years old during my first experience on my own. The first group I got involved with wasn't really with TWI but that's a long story. I first took "PFAL" "officially" in 1993 - got married in TWI - about 10 years later left TWI and so my husand left me. :(
I stayed with my ex for about five years after the lawsuits and tons of personal, internal questions started causing problems between the two of us. :/ I kept hoping he would end up seeing what a farce TWI is and leave WITH me, but alas.... he chose them over me. My story is at GSpot Radio and in the "My Story" section of the boards. So, I'll try to keep from boring others here.
After the lawsuits and them adamant about us not going on the internet, I went on the internet; found WayDale and it confirmed my worst fears and showed me that there was much more and much worse than I ever imagined. My ex would have nothing to do with hearing anything negative about TWI.... so I was on my own and that's ended up working out for the best.
The road to questioning and leaving was a long one I guess and perhaps my story changes a little everytime I think about it.
I remember going to art school was a big deal for me. I was confronted with new ideas and POVs. It wasn't long before there were people in twi trying to be my parents. There was fustration with never being able to "win" someone. There was my parents being M&Aed a couple of times and the first girl I thought I was going to marry leaving me and the ministry without explanation. But all of that didn't really get me thinking and questioning. Those things just caused self doubt from not being able to live up to the standard or thinking the inclings of doubt or hestitation in my mind were of the devil.
That first serious girl splitting did get me questioning a bit come to think of it. The journey of going from unbelief to absolute belief was a mystery to me, having grown up in twi and having been taught that faith was not neccessary.
LCM's WAP class got me scratching my head a bit. Other than the wacky stuff, what stuck out to me was why did we believe the Bible was the Word of God....the integrity of the Word teaching. It went something like "Is the Bible the Word of God...well lets look at the Word to see what it says about itself." :blink: For some reason after twenty years, give or take, it struck me. That was my whole reason for believing it, was because it said it was? Well, that started me on a slow road to infidelville.
The lawsuits just seemed so typical, it was never about the leaders for me, it was about the followers and about friends and family and that is what kept the arrogance and feeling of superiority somewhat grounded.
Hi JJ, according to der vey today I'm an oldtimer. I started hanging around wayfers and twigs in about '78. I took the class in '80. Went out WOW in '82 and stayed in Arkansas for a couple of years before going into the Corps in '85. All that is pretty generic. I was asked to depart the Corps in '87 and upon returning home I was asked to take over half of the state as an area coord. So I did. LCM never asked me to give him allegence even though we corresponded on a friend level for about 3 years after being kicked out of the Corps for being "possessed".
After POP in '85 I questioned everything concerning doctrine, and I was in trouble quite a bit while in residence. I managed to stay mostly below the radar while on the WOW field on my interum until my loving WOW sis decided that she did not want to keep her commitment so instead of just leaving she decided to mess up everyones year and get me canned from the Corps as well.
Anyway as I said I returned home in '87. Did the AC thing for a while, then when we got a new LC he abolished the AC positions cause "he could do it himself". So I ran a twig for a while until '90. My father, who was also in the ministry fell asleep and not one twigger (except from my twig) came to the eulogy or even called. I was done with their hypocrasy. It wasn't anything the ministry did as an organization that made me depart. It was the callous way that regular believers were treated by the local "leadership" that turned my back. My mom stayed in because she liked some of the folks and after dads passing she found that fellowship was a nice way to get out and still be a bit active, not so lonely feeling. But then my brother and his tc kicked mom out of fellowship because she would not disown me. (I know this order came from our LC, not from anyone higher) Well that just devestated mom and made me downright hostile. As I said it was the local leadership that made me walk away.
My parents joined, and I was probably 2 or 3 years old, so I was essentially raised in TWI.
I left after 1) I realized as a young adult that it was all a bunch of B.S., and 2) I could figure out a way to leave without being marked and avoided by my family that are still in TWI. What triggered my realization that they taught a bunch of B.S.? I tried to apply the keys to understanding the bible that VPW taught and took all of the PFAL classes. As a result, I realized that things LCM said didn't fit with what the bible said. Then I thought about it more, and realized that the bible wasn't that consistent and really didn't have all of the answers either, and just gave up the whole thing.
I got in at the age of 24 in 1975...stayed until 1987...left when the fog years were kicking in...
...and that's another reason why GreaseSpot is such an informative place...There are folks here from every era of twi and of all ages...when considered collectively, the various perspectives help to paint a complete picture...
How many of us here at GSC were people who were either raised in "the Word" or were people who only got involved during the reign of "He Who Shall Not Be Named But Has the Initials LCM"? And how about those who came in during the current administration?
I wasn't raised in TWI but got involved in 1988 - I was 17 years old. I was witenessed to by some WOWs in Sanford, Maine. If you do the math, I'm 36 years old.
Why did you leave in comparison to those who became involved during the reign of "He Who Drank Drambuie And Killed Coco"? (If you did.)
I left when I got tired of getting treated like a child. I got called on the carpet for some really silly, non-threatening stuff. The whole power-play that was going on with my local leadership was a big pain in the butt - people who really loved God and the Word were just getting stomped on by people who didn't care - all because they didn't drive the right car or have the right job or because their kids fidgeted in twig. The pettiness of it got to me and I hated how I was being treated and how I saw others treated. I left in January 2000.
When did you begin to question things, and why?
I questioned things for years but never took action on it. Some of the questions were the ones I never verbalized but rather more like "moments of clarity" where I felt something was really off the mark. I had some leadership who I could carefully question about things but they were company men/women and usually gave me the company line. There were a few - very few - who spoke candidly of their takes on situation - like the homo-purge - and how they detested how things were run. It wasn't until I was divorced and no longer had a husband to make decisions for me that I experienced how entwined in my life leadership wanted to be - they wanted to run the whole show. It was almost painful to deal with because there were some things - like a job change - that you should be allow to just go and do yourself - not with TWI, not then. Micromanagement at its finest!
I'm very curious to see if anyone else out there had similar experiences to me.
Chas, you and I got in about the same time (me a little earlier, but didn't take the class until much later - we didn't have enough people to run it) and at about the same age, too.
I began to question things about the time you got out. Guess you're smarter than me! I stuck around thinking maybe something would change...
Guess there's not that many Gen-Xers and beyond around here... Just bringing it to the top in hopes some more will post.
JavaJane...I know there are a lot more Gen-Xers around here than have posted thus far...give em a little more time to find this thread and gather their thoughts...
I enjoy reading the perspectives by you "younger kids"...
Personally, I can't even imagine being raised in twi from my youth...there is a lot to be said about your experiences and inquiring minds want to know...
Guess there's not that many Gen-Xers and beyond around here... Just bringing it to the top in hopes some more will post.
Sorry, JJ, I'm a *Boomer*.
I was already "Growed up" when I took the PFAL class in 1972.
I got in for all the usual reasons.
My exit was more of a fizzle that a bang.
I cruised along at twig level for about my last 10 years and finally stopped going in about 1990 when family commitments took priority. I knew almost nothing about what had happened at the upper levels and was amazed at what I found out here at GSC. When I left(faded away) no one bothered to follow up on me despite all the "we sure love ya" stuff I had heard for so long. That was a bit disheartening.
That's probably not what you were looking for.
I hope some others from your age group post so you can compare notes.
Chas, you and I got in about the same time (me a little earlier, but didn't take the class until much later - we didn't have enough people to run it) and at about the same age, too.
I began to question things about the time you got out. Guess you're smarter than me! I stuck around thinking maybe something would change...
Still wondering...
I did the same thing...
It will change = It can't get any worse
Then... there would be a new decree from King Rainbow Leotard and yep... it would get worse...
I officially took PFAL in the Spring of 1993. Was ready to go WOW in 1994, but decided against it when I got to the ROA in August of 1994. Certain Events occured with other "believers" at that time, who I made friends with , were severly chastised by the local leadership. As time got closer to the ROA in 1994, LCM seemed to get more and more off his rocker, and I started to question whether or not some of his teachings lined up with the word. I found out that some of the things taught by LCM were not even biblical, so I started to ignore him, and started to just read the Bible itself. I was also chastised by local leadership for not listening to LCM. When I showed the word to the local leadership, they said I was possessed and that I should always listen to LCM.
It didn't take me long to realize that the TWI was more intrested in swearing allegiance to their MOG, and only used the bible as a convienence, when it seeemed to fit in with their ideology of a Christian.
This came crystal clear at the ROA in 1994, when there were some teachings in the big tent.
Although some of the teachings I still believe in(amazingly, there are some accurate teachings), there were some glaring differences in how they dealt with some people.
EX: The Bible teaches us to forgive and to pray for others, even those who are our enemies
TWI's mark and avoid method of ex-followers is not forgiveness, I don't know of any current way followers that would admit or acutally have prayed for any ex-members
I officially lef the TWI in September of 1994, soon after the ROA
I am thankful that my daughter (who I had after I left the TWI) will not have to go through the same B.S. that I went through with the TWI.
I am also thankful that I only wasted about 1 1/2 years of my life with the TWI and not a second longer
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TheHighWay
I joined at the end of the drambui years, just as the jr-mog was taking the reins (early 80's).
survived the era of tights (the late 80's)
the era of the spittle inquisition (the 90's)
and finally saw the light and left at the begining of the lawsuit era (2000's)
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polar bear
I went through all the era's and left because I saw the "era" of their ways.
When I left they made Nazi's look like boy scouts.
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penguin
Hey. I got involved a few months after vpw died--but didn't wise up and leave until several years after the lawsuits hit. I wanted to "stay faithful to the ministry that taught me the Word" ya know--so I stayed like a good little waybot. It wasn't until I finally realized that leadership no longer cared about God's kids that I left.
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JavaJane
Sorry about that.
I was raised in twi from 12 or so on. I thought it was right and correct and everything else. First place I came to that actually read the Bible instead of talking around it. (Then again, I was 12, what the heck did I know?) My whole family became involved.
So, I thought this was the end all be all... And I continued to think this until a couple years back.
Nope, not the lawsuit - that didn't give me a clue (besides, I only thought it was a consenual affair and a "mistake" never knew it was a plural...)
Not so smart... Oh well...
Anyway... I think I started to realize what was happening when the teachings started to change in their style. Everything seemed to be read and forced... no individuality of the teacher involved. And everything was suddenly being taught straight out of the Blue Book. Seemed like if there had been such a sudden change, something was wrong.... it was either wrong previously, or it was wrong now.
<_<
So I started THINKING about stuff from before when LCM ran things and now... I compared the two and didn't just come to the conclusion that this was a "kinder, gentler" twi. I started seeing things that had been taught wrongly. The whole "all women belong to the king" crap was the start, because after the meeting we had to attend with the explanation of the lawsuit, that was the first thing one of the old timers said to justify LCM's actions. It didn't make sense to me at all... but then again, I thought I just needed to become more spiritual.
But later I really started to consider things and I saw a lot of holes. First, only in LCM's teachings - for instance the whole concept that you could become so strong in an area that the adversary would never be able to attack you there again. What a crock of poo! In that case, Jesus Christ never would have been attacked, right? And then I started thinking about Jesus Christ more and more and the things that were taught in twi and how they applied to him. And they didn't match logically. Like, if weakness always brings down strength, then how did Jesus Christ even begin to minister to ANYONE EVER?
As this train of thought kept going down its tracks, I started to examine other things we had been taught... One by one, it started to crumble, and I saw that the focus was not on God, Jesus Christ, or even on taking care of the believers. It all seemed to center around leadership, specifically the MOG.
The only conclusion I could come to was that something was definately not right... and then I started talking to people... and I started to realize that there had been more going on with the "MOG" that what we had been told.
And I started to get angry. I had sacrificed relationships and people to this IDOL that was twi. And twi didn't even have the balls to stand up and say what had really happened.
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Belle
I got involved at around 23 years old during my first experience on my own. The first group I got involved with wasn't really with TWI but that's a long story. I first took "PFAL" "officially" in 1993 - got married in TWI - about 10 years later left TWI and so my husand left me. :(
I stayed with my ex for about five years after the lawsuits and tons of personal, internal questions started causing problems between the two of us. :/ I kept hoping he would end up seeing what a farce TWI is and leave WITH me, but alas.... he chose them over me. My story is at GSpot Radio and in the "My Story" section of the boards. So, I'll try to keep from boring others here.
After the lawsuits and them adamant about us not going on the internet, I went on the internet; found WayDale and it confirmed my worst fears and showed me that there was much more and much worse than I ever imagined. My ex would have nothing to do with hearing anything negative about TWI.... so I was on my own and that's ended up working out for the best.
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JavaJane
I totally LOVE your story, Belle. You're the BOMB!
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WordWolf
I started right after vpw left also.
I left right after lcm demanded his oath of loyalty.
I knew there were problems, but I grossly underestimated them, and figured that private
conversations among the top echelon (Regional Directors, Limb Coordinators, etc)
would be enough to fix lcm. (I missed the "fog" entirely during the fog years.)
Right after I actually said that to someone,
lcm sent out a letter.
It said, in effect, "We're firing all the staff in your state because they've turned
from serving God to serving their own lusts."
Now, I may not have been the sharpest tool in the shed, but I could vouch for people
I'd spent a lot of time with, and seen when the masks come off,
and I'd seen some of the other people on the list, and at least one had achieved the
status of a local legend. I knew THEY weren't anything like the letter said,
and most of the people I had heard in leadership positions and respected were all
placed in the same category.
I found it difficult to accept that they were SECRETLY evil, only on the word of a man
who didn't interact with them regularly, and was having trouble tracking properly.
So, I went off to ROA '89, after a lot of people walked. 1/5 the attendance of ROA '88
were there. Most of the people who'd made THAT one rock were not at ROA '89.
Many of those who WERE at ROA '89 were making their goodbyes- at least among
those I'd met and interacted with. Many were like myself- there to look at things
for myself so I could form an informed opinion.
(And attempt to buy out the bookstore, foolishly ignorant of how much of its
contents were available commercially.)
By the end of the week, it was obvious that A) most of the talent had either walked
or been fired
B) the thought police were monitoring conversations- and one jumped into a
conversation and confirmed that minutes after I claimed that the upcoming conversation
would be monitored- inadvertently confirming my claims to a total stranger who now
realized things were worse than he's imagined
C) events were orchestrated to SIMULATE the things I valued, while missing the mark
of SUBSTANCE. The only exception was the Afternoon (nee Teen) Stage-
which, naturally, lcm ended soon after, eliminating the last substance the ROAs had left.
In short, just going from lcm's statements and direct observation at the ROA,
I was able to prove to my own satisfaction that the situation on-grounds was
wrong and unable to be fixed.
That's independent of the positive examples I'd seen from the people who were
canned because they wouldn't swear allegiance to lcm.
And when I scrutinized THEM in detail, I wasn't able to find problems like I could
find with lcm- and I looked VERY HARD.
Were they without problems? No- but they were a LOT harder to find, and I was
unable to find them when I was looking.
Mind you, if I found THEM just as damaged, I would have walked away from ALL
of them and seen what other Christians had to offer.
(A few years earlier than I did, I mean.)
The availability of what I perceived to be competent Christians at my local area
made it a lot easier for me to leave.
Basically, almost the entire structure of "the ministry" in my area was still intact-
just not working for lcm anymore.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
JJ, I was a babyboomer and became involved with TWI in early 70's and left in December 79.
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lindyhopper
I think I am a gen X'er...
Raised in "da Word" from age 5.
The road to questioning and leaving was a long one I guess and perhaps my story changes a little everytime I think about it.
I remember going to art school was a big deal for me. I was confronted with new ideas and POVs. It wasn't long before there were people in twi trying to be my parents. There was fustration with never being able to "win" someone. There was my parents being M&Aed a couple of times and the first girl I thought I was going to marry leaving me and the ministry without explanation. But all of that didn't really get me thinking and questioning. Those things just caused self doubt from not being able to live up to the standard or thinking the inclings of doubt or hestitation in my mind were of the devil.
That first serious girl splitting did get me questioning a bit come to think of it. The journey of going from unbelief to absolute belief was a mystery to me, having grown up in twi and having been taught that faith was not neccessary.
LCM's WAP class got me scratching my head a bit. Other than the wacky stuff, what stuck out to me was why did we believe the Bible was the Word of God....the integrity of the Word teaching. It went something like "Is the Bible the Word of God...well lets look at the Word to see what it says about itself." :blink: For some reason after twenty years, give or take, it struck me. That was my whole reason for believing it, was because it said it was? Well, that started me on a slow road to infidelville.
The lawsuits just seemed so typical, it was never about the leaders for me, it was about the followers and about friends and family and that is what kept the arrogance and feeling of superiority somewhat grounded.
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Eyesopen
Hi JJ, according to der vey today I'm an oldtimer. I started hanging around wayfers and twigs in about '78. I took the class in '80. Went out WOW in '82 and stayed in Arkansas for a couple of years before going into the Corps in '85. All that is pretty generic. I was asked to depart the Corps in '87 and upon returning home I was asked to take over half of the state as an area coord. So I did. LCM never asked me to give him allegence even though we corresponded on a friend level for about 3 years after being kicked out of the Corps for being "possessed".
After POP in '85 I questioned everything concerning doctrine, and I was in trouble quite a bit while in residence. I managed to stay mostly below the radar while on the WOW field on my interum until my loving WOW sis decided that she did not want to keep her commitment so instead of just leaving she decided to mess up everyones year and get me canned from the Corps as well.
Anyway as I said I returned home in '87. Did the AC thing for a while, then when we got a new LC he abolished the AC positions cause "he could do it himself". So I ran a twig for a while until '90. My father, who was also in the ministry fell asleep and not one twigger (except from my twig) came to the eulogy or even called. I was done with their hypocrasy. It wasn't anything the ministry did as an organization that made me depart. It was the callous way that regular believers were treated by the local "leadership" that turned my back. My mom stayed in because she liked some of the folks and after dads passing she found that fellowship was a nice way to get out and still be a bit active, not so lonely feeling. But then my brother and his tc kicked mom out of fellowship because she would not disown me. (I know this order came from our LC, not from anyone higher) Well that just devestated mom and made me downright hostile. As I said it was the local leadership that made me walk away.
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Mister P-Mosh
My parents joined, and I was probably 2 or 3 years old, so I was essentially raised in TWI.
I left after 1) I realized as a young adult that it was all a bunch of B.S., and 2) I could figure out a way to leave without being marked and avoided by my family that are still in TWI. What triggered my realization that they taught a bunch of B.S.? I tried to apply the keys to understanding the bible that VPW taught and took all of the PFAL classes. As a result, I realized that things LCM said didn't fit with what the bible said. Then I thought about it more, and realized that the bible wasn't that consistent and really didn't have all of the answers either, and just gave up the whole thing.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I got in at the age of 24 in 1975...stayed until 1987...left when the fog years were kicking in...
...and that's another reason why GreaseSpot is such an informative place...There are folks here from every era of twi and of all ages...when considered collectively, the various perspectives help to paint a complete picture...
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Ham
I got in in 1975. Took pfal, didn't see the big deal but stuck around to see what the other people were talking about.
I left because of insanity in 1996. Not my own..
If I was corps, I would imagine I would have left around the time of the demand for loyalty fiasco.
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JavaJane
Guess there's not that many Gen-Xers and beyond around here... Just bringing it to the top in hopes some more will post.
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ChasUFarley
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JavaJane
Chas, you and I got in about the same time (me a little earlier, but didn't take the class until much later - we didn't have enough people to run it) and at about the same age, too.
I began to question things about the time you got out. Guess you're smarter than me! I stuck around thinking maybe something would change...
Still wondering...
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GrouchoMarxJr
JavaJane...I know there are a lot more Gen-Xers around here than have posted thus far...give em a little more time to find this thread and gather their thoughts...
I enjoy reading the perspectives by you "younger kids"...
Personally, I can't even imagine being raised in twi from my youth...there is a lot to be said about your experiences and inquiring minds want to know...
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waysider
Sorry, JJ, I'm a *Boomer*.
I was already "Growed up" when I took the PFAL class in 1972.
I got in for all the usual reasons.
My exit was more of a fizzle that a bang.
I cruised along at twig level for about my last 10 years and finally stopped going in about 1990 when family commitments took priority. I knew almost nothing about what had happened at the upper levels and was amazed at what I found out here at GSC. When I left(faded away) no one bothered to follow up on me despite all the "we sure love ya" stuff I had heard for so long. That was a bit disheartening.
That's probably not what you were looking for.
I hope some others from your age group post so you can compare notes.
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ChasUFarley
I did the same thing...
It will change = It can't get any worse
Then... there would be a new decree from King Rainbow Leotard and yep... it would get worse...
...and you'd think...
It will change = It can't get any worse
Then, you realize that...
"It will change = It can't get any worse"
Is synonymous with "status quo"
And you know you're frucked...
THEN
you will find the door
and the air will be fresh
but with a slight smell of grease...
Greasespot Cafe!
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cdonkers
I officially took PFAL in the Spring of 1993. Was ready to go WOW in 1994, but decided against it when I got to the ROA in August of 1994. Certain Events occured with other "believers" at that time, who I made friends with , were severly chastised by the local leadership. As time got closer to the ROA in 1994, LCM seemed to get more and more off his rocker, and I started to question whether or not some of his teachings lined up with the word. I found out that some of the things taught by LCM were not even biblical, so I started to ignore him, and started to just read the Bible itself. I was also chastised by local leadership for not listening to LCM. When I showed the word to the local leadership, they said I was possessed and that I should always listen to LCM.
It didn't take me long to realize that the TWI was more intrested in swearing allegiance to their MOG, and only used the bible as a convienence, when it seeemed to fit in with their ideology of a Christian.
This came crystal clear at the ROA in 1994, when there were some teachings in the big tent.
Although some of the teachings I still believe in(amazingly, there are some accurate teachings), there were some glaring differences in how they dealt with some people.
EX: The Bible teaches us to forgive and to pray for others, even those who are our enemies
TWI's mark and avoid method of ex-followers is not forgiveness, I don't know of any current way followers that would admit or acutally have prayed for any ex-members
I officially lef the TWI in September of 1994, soon after the ROA
I am thankful that my daughter (who I had after I left the TWI) will not have to go through the same B.S. that I went through with the TWI.
I am also thankful that I only wasted about 1 1/2 years of my life with the TWI and not a second longer
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ChasUFarley
cdonkers - WELCOME!
I was at that ROA that year, as a returning WOW....
Sounds like you were smarter than a lot of us... :) (I mean that sincerely... not snidely...)
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JavaJane
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