What's a "literal"? I remember VPW giving his spin on a Bible verse by re-writting it like he liked and calling it something like a literal according to usasge something or another. Of course, he was just making it up but I didn't know there was a full book rewriting the Bible.
Or maybe you're talking about something else? I just haven't heard of "literals".
Ditto on what Sudo said, somewhere i might have Wierwilles bastardization of a few epistles which he called literal somethingsomethings but were literal junk, twisted to suit his ends, other than that Im not sure I know what you mean...
I can go check to see if they are lining the bird cages if you want, ....Or are you talking about the interlinear word for word translation?
either way I MIGHT have them if you are patient, thats about all I have neither of which I really would phrase as 'literal'
Thank you for your responses. I have just heard them termed Literals. I have the Acts and Romans which have blessed me alot. So, I was just wondering if someone out there had them laying around in their closet. You never know until you ask and I would like copies from anyone that still has them.
I believe so. I know there are some where the verse is literal according to usage and then with expanded translation. And then there are thick literals of Acts and Romans that go into detail explaining each verse with references to other verses. I don't know if they were teachings that were transcribed -- I have just always heard them called literals. I have heard that there are those teachings (literals) on Ephesians, Corinthians, etc. Thanks for your responses.
I don't know anything of a "Literals" publication coming from the Way, but I can recommend a couple of works that essentially accomplish the same thing, and which I think do better:
The Concordant Literal New Testament with Keyword Concordance, published by Concordant Publishing Concern, edited by A.E. Knoch - This is perhaps the most ultra-literal translation in circulation. In fact, I heard it rumored a few years ago that Wierwille had actually plagarized certain of his "literals according to usage" from this particular work.
And of no small interest, A.E. Knock was a friend and correspondant to Bullinger.
Another ultra literal translation that you may find interesting: The Emphasized Bible edited by J.B. Rotherham, first published in the latter half of the 19th century, and which was very instrumental in inspiring the translator of the above work cited. You will find of especial interest the way the translator rendered Gen.1:1 and 1:2.
Both works present ultra-literal translations in English, and both utilize a series of symbols throughout their translation to indicate various grammatical nuances of the Greek, the Concordant Literal NT being a bit more elaborate (there is also a version compiled by Newberry which employs a system of marking in an attempt to convey the finer points of Greek to English readers).
To this I would also recommend adding an "expanded" translation of the NT to the Literal arsenal - versions which go the other direction, which take liberty to employ as many English words as is needed to convey the original Greek meanings - of which The Amplified Bible is a well known example.
I like Kenneth Wuest's expanded translation, which is oft included in the 4 volume set Word Studies in the Greek New Testament
Find the translations of Knock and Wuest and you'll essentially have what the Way's "Literals" attempted to achieve.
You should have little problem locating a copy of these works via Amazon or the Alibris used & rare book search engines.
I have VPW's "literals according to usage" of most (if not all) the Epistles. Don't even remember where they came from... University of Life? Way Corps training? Who knows. But I have them scanned into PDF form, just send me a PM and tell me where to send them.
I think Hooner is refering to the literals from Corps nights generally at the end of each chapter of notes is a literal derived from working the verses line by line. The only other set of literals that were as such ,a set that I remember were the Pastorial Epistles An English int'erlinear to the Pesh itta Version of the Aramaic New Testament. Which covered Timothy Titus and Philemon They were given out at Corps Week 85
Thanks for all responses. I was not affiliated with the Way directly when VPW was alive so that's why I may be foggy on terminolgy. The literals just bless me alot when I'm studying scripture. And, I recently found out they were available (1st key of PFAL -- ahah) so, I stepped forth and asked.
The literals I have - are Acts which is about 200 pages and Romans which is the same. I have some University of Life courses -- the ACts literals are different than UOF that LCM did (or maybe they were connected but I don't realize because I wasn't in the Way).
Anyhow, thanks everyone for replying!!! And, God bless you, he's a good God regardless of what humans do.
I have a Univ. of Life (UOF) class on Acts which I purchased with this statement:
University of Life ACTS "The Eight Great Statements"
Taught by LCM at VPW's request and recorded for distribution in this class format. Dr was present at every recording session, as his manner was with encouragement and instruction.
"Son, you are seeing many things in the Word that I've just been doing for years by inspiration. I'm so thankful you are documenting it." VPW
This audio class comes complete with 89 page syllabus.
Here is the text of the cover letter sent along with the literals I have:
Dear Way Corps:
God bless you in the wonderful name of Jesus Christ.
We are very blessed to make these literal translations according to usage of II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I/II Timothy, Titus, and Philemon available to you. As a Board of Trustees, we want you, The Way Corps, to have the most current and accurate Biblical research study aids, so that you can grow in God's Word and hold it forth more effectually.
A "literal translation according to usage" is a "translation which reproduces the thoughts and meanings of the original, based on the words in the original in relation to the verse, context, remote context, and to whom it is written." An "expanded translation" is a "translation which reporduces the original with many alterante or alternative means and explanatory renderings." Our ministry is unique in that we strive to communicate the heart of the original God-breathed Word to the best of our ability.
Our literal translations according to usage reflect the best research and understandnig of the verses to date. They may change as further research is done and greater insight gained. Study and make the material your own before you teach it to others. These translations will be most profitable when you can teach the how and why of the verses, not merely read them.
We trust these literal translations according to usage will bless and benefit your life. We love you and stand committed with you in the outreach of God's Word over the World.
In His service,
(signed L. Craig Martindale, Donald E. Wierwille, Howard R. Allen)
Your Board of Trustees
This cover letter has no date, but the date on the literals is 1986. This means they are probably still mostly Doc Vic's literals, with maybe some tweaks by Martindale. They run 70-some pages long.
As for the content of the letter itself, there is more there I could comment on than I have the energy or desire to deal with... let me just say "holy crap!"
[Q] Study and make the material your own before you teach it to others.[/Q]
Hey Highway,
I would love a copy. Check your PM cause I sent you one with my e-mail address.
I know alot of stuff happened in the Way but the statement that stood out to me was "make the material your own." And that's what I do. I don't read them as truth but alot of times I'm studying in KJV Bible (because that's the best version) and it doesn't make sense to me, so to read the literals I have at the moment and -- I work them. The man that taught and teaches me the Word studied under VPW as did his wife and they tell me the same. Use them as a tool, but make them your own. So, I would love the PDF copy you mentioned you had Highway. It would really help me grow just by working it myself with a little help. God Bless.
I don't read them as truth but alot of times I'm studying in KJV Bible (because that's the best version) and it doesn't make sense to me, so to read the literals I have at the moment and -- I work them.
(snip)
The man that taught and teaches me the Word studied under VPW as did his wife and they tell me the same.
(snip)
You're free to study-or not study-anything you want.
You're free to build a 40-foot bronze statue to someone and bow to it when the music plays
if you want.
However,
I feel the need to make corrections when FACTUAL errors are given.
(That happens a lot on the internet.)
You said the King James Version is "THE BEST VERSION."
Now, if your standard for best relies solely on "vpw used it so it's the best", then, yes, under that definition,
it is the best.
The KJV has advantages and disadvantages.
The intent King James had in authorizing a version was in making one version that was
academically superior to the other versions present.
He succeeded- in 1611, it was "cutting edge."
The advantages of the KJV at this time are:
-it is easy to find
-it offers the italics for words the translator added
-its language has that "old-time" feel
-it offers word-for-word translation rather than concept-for-concept paraphrases.
The disadvantages of the KJV at this time are:
-its language is stilted and outmoded
-despite some updates, it is far behind textual research of the past 50-100 years
Now, the NIV lacks the italics, but is a fair word-for-word, & has incorporated many improvements.
The NRSV has much the same advantages.
However, if you want a Bible that offers all the strengths of the KJV with fewer weaknesses,
and none added to the KJV, you want a New American Standard Bible.
The NASB uses a word-for-word translation, is direct, uses modern language much clearer
than the KJV, incorporates modern improvements based on texts discovered in the past
several hundred years, AND USES THE ITALICS.
Anyone who likes to use the KJV because of its word-for-word approach or its italics
(or both) should switch to a NASB the next chance they get.
They're not on every streetcorner, but any bookstore or Christian bookstore either can
order it or has it in stock.
Many times-and we've discussed many of them here- the archaic, awkward phrasing of
things in the KJV were taken BY VPW and whole doctrines were formed around them-
when a version like the NASB doesn't make the mistake in the first place.
Let me know if you need examples of this; we've discussed one in the past week alone.
======
Relying on vpw- or people who rely on vpw- produces the same problem as relying on
ANY one teacher for your education- you take on their WEAKNESSES as well as their
strengths (and vpw's education lacked many things.)
That's why men learning a craft down the centuries entered a stage called "journeyman".
A Journeyman travelled (thus the name), practiced what he learned, and also learned
from other master-craftsmen besides who he started with. That way, he can correct errors
he began with, and add additional skills to his repertoire.
Nowadays, it is VERY easy to learn from many different Christians from many different
groups. You don't even need to leave your desk-if you have the internet.
However,
if you're determined to ONLY learn the vpw style, and ONLY learn from vpw-endorsers,
that is entirely your privilege. Me, I didn't limit myself to that even before the internet,
Watchman Nee, in discussing studying the Bible recommended as a study tool to write your own "literal" translation: Using your own heart and life with the Holy Spirit -- setting yourself to communicate with Bible dictionaries, concordances, different versions, what you know of scripture, other people/authors you admire, etc.
Gene Petersen did something like this and produced "The Message" version of the Bible, which started with his efforts to make the Bible understandable to the kids he was working with.
Basically I guess I'm suggesting/recommending moving out of Egypt and into the Promised Land, where the Lord longs to teach you for Himself how to unlock the treasures of His Word.
I, also really enjoy The Message along with other versions of the Bible. It has really helped to deepen my understanding and to make me think beyond just the doctrines taught to me. If I have questions regarding something, I keep looking. Sometimes I find the answer, sometimes I don't, but it has been a great exercise in thinking.
WordWolf has some great points about the internet and Biblical research. It's very easy to find lots of information online that will help you to understand some of those difficult scriptures.
To me, the literals according to usage were very burdensome to read. They seemed to be filled with twi jargon - and no one in the real world really talks like twi does or did. They attach certain definitions to words that may or may not be true according to the generally accepted definition.
"Making it your own" is a good example. By looking at that phrase, I would think that it meant that I should study the material so that I could understand it for myself using my own experiences, thought processes, and logic. I might even do my own research so that I could understand the context or the people involved... But that is not the definition attached to it by twi...
LCM used to say that we were to go to all of twi's materials and look at them with the heart that we wanted to be "as convinced of the truth as our teachers." That does not allow for questioning, additional research, additional anything. We were to make their doctrine our doctrine without question. We were to line our thinking up with theirs no matter if they said something as ridiculous as the "all women belong to the King" doctrine that stated that David as the man of God had not sinned by committing adultury with Bathsheba. There was to be no questioning that, even if it was downright stupid and against all common sense.
Just make sure you think for yourself and read the Bible with THOUGHT behind it and trust your own thoughts - God made you and He made you able to think.
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Sudo
Hooner,
What's a "literal"? I remember VPW giving his spin on a Bible verse by re-writting it like he liked and calling it something like a literal according to usasge something or another. Of course, he was just making it up but I didn't know there was a full book rewriting the Bible.
Or maybe you're talking about something else? I just haven't heard of "literals".
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mstar1
Ditto on what Sudo said, somewhere i might have Wierwilles bastardization of a few epistles which he called literal somethingsomethings but were literal junk, twisted to suit his ends, other than that Im not sure I know what you mean...
I can go check to see if they are lining the bird cages if you want, ....Or are you talking about the interlinear word for word translation?
either way I MIGHT have them if you are patient, thats about all I have neither of which I really would phrase as 'literal'
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Hooner
Thank you for your responses. I have just heard them termed Literals. I have the Acts and Romans which have blessed me alot. So, I was just wondering if someone out there had them laying around in their closet. You never know until you ask and I would like copies from anyone that still has them.
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likeaneagle
Literal according to usuage??
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Hooner
I believe so. I know there are some where the verse is literal according to usage and then with expanded translation. And then there are thick literals of Acts and Romans that go into detail explaining each verse with references to other verses. I don't know if they were teachings that were transcribed -- I have just always heard them called literals. I have heard that there are those teachings (literals) on Ephesians, Corinthians, etc. Thanks for your responses.
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likeaneagle
Sorry Hooner-
I thru all my materials from the 90's..I still have PFAl and other books and collection from 75-83.
I only remember this you speak of from the ADV CL and a few others.
I dont remember a seperate collection from the epistles.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Almost sounds like University of Life courses.
George
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likeaneagle
thats what I was thinking too George
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TheInvisibleDan
Hooner,
I don't know anything of a "Literals" publication coming from the Way, but I can recommend a couple of works that essentially accomplish the same thing, and which I think do better:
The Concordant Literal New Testament with Keyword Concordance, published by Concordant Publishing Concern, edited by A.E. Knoch - This is perhaps the most ultra-literal translation in circulation. In fact, I heard it rumored a few years ago that Wierwille had actually plagarized certain of his "literals according to usage" from this particular work.
And of no small interest, A.E. Knock was a friend and correspondant to Bullinger.
Another ultra literal translation that you may find interesting: The Emphasized Bible edited by J.B. Rotherham, first published in the latter half of the 19th century, and which was very instrumental in inspiring the translator of the above work cited. You will find of especial interest the way the translator rendered Gen.1:1 and 1:2.
Both works present ultra-literal translations in English, and both utilize a series of symbols throughout their translation to indicate various grammatical nuances of the Greek, the Concordant Literal NT being a bit more elaborate (there is also a version compiled by Newberry which employs a system of marking in an attempt to convey the finer points of Greek to English readers).
To this I would also recommend adding an "expanded" translation of the NT to the Literal arsenal - versions which go the other direction, which take liberty to employ as many English words as is needed to convey the original Greek meanings - of which The Amplified Bible is a well known example.
I like Kenneth Wuest's expanded translation, which is oft included in the 4 volume set Word Studies in the Greek New Testament
Find the translations of Knock and Wuest and you'll essentially have what the Way's "Literals" attempted to achieve.
You should have little problem locating a copy of these works via Amazon or the Alibris used & rare book search engines.
Danny
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TheHighWay
I have VPW's "literals according to usage" of most (if not all) the Epistles. Don't even remember where they came from... University of Life? Way Corps training? Who knows. But I have them scanned into PDF form, just send me a PM and tell me where to send them.
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WhiteDove
I think Hooner is refering to the literals from Corps nights generally at the end of each chapter of notes is a literal derived from working the verses line by line. The only other set of literals that were as such ,a set that I remember were the Pastorial Epistles An English int'erlinear to the Pesh itta Version of the Aramaic New Testament. Which covered Timothy Titus and Philemon They were given out at Corps Week 85
edited for nasty word filter.............
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GeorgeStGeorge
Don't you just love the naughty-word filter?
George
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tFloat
I remember some of the wierwill books referred to as literals in the late 80s, think I bought 'em all.
Those books hit the trash can the day after I walked out to freedom.
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Hooner
Thanks for all responses. I was not affiliated with the Way directly when VPW was alive so that's why I may be foggy on terminolgy. The literals just bless me alot when I'm studying scripture. And, I recently found out they were available (1st key of PFAL -- ahah) so, I stepped forth and asked.
The literals I have - are Acts which is about 200 pages and Romans which is the same. I have some University of Life courses -- the ACts literals are different than UOF that LCM did (or maybe they were connected but I don't realize because I wasn't in the Way).
Anyhow, thanks everyone for replying!!! And, God bless you, he's a good God regardless of what humans do.
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likeaneagle
Im lost again..
collaterals..sylubus
LCM didnt do the UOL...They closed that class in early 90's
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Hooner
I have a Univ. of Life (UOF) class on Acts which I purchased with this statement:
University of Life ACTS "The Eight Great Statements"
Taught by LCM at VPW's request and recorded for distribution in this class format. Dr was present at every recording session, as his manner was with encouragement and instruction.
"Son, you are seeing many things in the Word that I've just been doing for years by inspiration. I'm so thankful you are documenting it." VPW
This audio class comes complete with 89 page syllabus.
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TheHighWay
Here is the text of the cover letter sent along with the literals I have:
Dear Way Corps:
God bless you in the wonderful name of Jesus Christ.
We are very blessed to make these literal translations according to usage of II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I/II Timothy, Titus, and Philemon available to you. As a Board of Trustees, we want you, The Way Corps, to have the most current and accurate Biblical research study aids, so that you can grow in God's Word and hold it forth more effectually.
A "literal translation according to usage" is a "translation which reproduces the thoughts and meanings of the original, based on the words in the original in relation to the verse, context, remote context, and to whom it is written." An "expanded translation" is a "translation which reporduces the original with many alterante or alternative means and explanatory renderings." Our ministry is unique in that we strive to communicate the heart of the original God-breathed Word to the best of our ability.
Our literal translations according to usage reflect the best research and understandnig of the verses to date. They may change as further research is done and greater insight gained. Study and make the material your own before you teach it to others. These translations will be most profitable when you can teach the how and why of the verses, not merely read them.
We trust these literal translations according to usage will bless and benefit your life. We love you and stand committed with you in the outreach of God's Word over the World.
In His service,
(signed L. Craig Martindale, Donald E. Wierwille, Howard R. Allen)
Your Board of Trustees
This cover letter has no date, but the date on the literals is 1986. This means they are probably still mostly Doc Vic's literals, with maybe some tweaks by Martindale. They run 70-some pages long.
As for the content of the letter itself, there is more there I could comment on than I have the energy or desire to deal with... let me just say "holy crap!"
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WhiteDove
Craig did teach a U of L course The courses mostly consisted of edited Corps night presentations.
The University of Life Courses are
Thessalonians, Ephesians ,Romans pt1, Romans pt2, Timothy - Taught by VPW
Figures of speech - Thomas M Reahard
The Renewed Mind - Walter Cummins
One God - John Lynn
Acts Eight Great Statements - L Craig Martindale
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Hooner
Hey Highway,
I would love a copy. Check your PM cause I sent you one with my e-mail address.
I know alot of stuff happened in the Way but the statement that stood out to me was "make the material your own." And that's what I do. I don't read them as truth but alot of times I'm studying in KJV Bible (because that's the best version) and it doesn't make sense to me, so to read the literals I have at the moment and -- I work them. The man that taught and teaches me the Word studied under VPW as did his wife and they tell me the same. Use them as a tool, but make them your own. So, I would love the PDF copy you mentioned you had Highway. It would really help me grow just by working it myself with a little help. God Bless.
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WordWolf
You're free to study-or not study-anything you want.
You're free to build a 40-foot bronze statue to someone and bow to it when the music plays
if you want.
However,
I feel the need to make corrections when FACTUAL errors are given.
(That happens a lot on the internet.)
You said the King James Version is "THE BEST VERSION."
Now, if your standard for best relies solely on "vpw used it so it's the best", then, yes, under that definition,
it is the best.
The KJV has advantages and disadvantages.
The intent King James had in authorizing a version was in making one version that was
academically superior to the other versions present.
He succeeded- in 1611, it was "cutting edge."
The advantages of the KJV at this time are:
-it is easy to find
-it offers the italics for words the translator added
-its language has that "old-time" feel
-it offers word-for-word translation rather than concept-for-concept paraphrases.
The disadvantages of the KJV at this time are:
-its language is stilted and outmoded
-despite some updates, it is far behind textual research of the past 50-100 years
Now, the NIV lacks the italics, but is a fair word-for-word, & has incorporated many improvements.
The NRSV has much the same advantages.
However, if you want a Bible that offers all the strengths of the KJV with fewer weaknesses,
and none added to the KJV, you want a New American Standard Bible.
The NASB uses a word-for-word translation, is direct, uses modern language much clearer
than the KJV, incorporates modern improvements based on texts discovered in the past
several hundred years, AND USES THE ITALICS.
Anyone who likes to use the KJV because of its word-for-word approach or its italics
(or both) should switch to a NASB the next chance they get.
They're not on every streetcorner, but any bookstore or Christian bookstore either can
order it or has it in stock.
Many times-and we've discussed many of them here- the archaic, awkward phrasing of
things in the KJV were taken BY VPW and whole doctrines were formed around them-
when a version like the NASB doesn't make the mistake in the first place.
Let me know if you need examples of this; we've discussed one in the past week alone.
======
Relying on vpw- or people who rely on vpw- produces the same problem as relying on
ANY one teacher for your education- you take on their WEAKNESSES as well as their
strengths (and vpw's education lacked many things.)
That's why men learning a craft down the centuries entered a stage called "journeyman".
A Journeyman travelled (thus the name), practiced what he learned, and also learned
from other master-craftsmen besides who he started with. That way, he can correct errors
he began with, and add additional skills to his repertoire.
Nowadays, it is VERY easy to learn from many different Christians from many different
groups. You don't even need to leave your desk-if you have the internet.
However,
if you're determined to ONLY learn the vpw style, and ONLY learn from vpw-endorsers,
that is entirely your privilege. Me, I didn't limit myself to that even before the internet,
and when I thought vpw was the best.
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Kit Sober
Watchman Nee, in discussing studying the Bible recommended as a study tool to write your own "literal" translation: Using your own heart and life with the Holy Spirit -- setting yourself to communicate with Bible dictionaries, concordances, different versions, what you know of scripture, other people/authors you admire, etc.
Gene Petersen did something like this and produced "The Message" version of the Bible, which started with his efforts to make the Bible understandable to the kids he was working with.
Basically I guess I'm suggesting/recommending moving out of Egypt and into the Promised Land, where the Lord longs to teach you for Himself how to unlock the treasures of His Word.
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JavaJane
I, also really enjoy The Message along with other versions of the Bible. It has really helped to deepen my understanding and to make me think beyond just the doctrines taught to me. If I have questions regarding something, I keep looking. Sometimes I find the answer, sometimes I don't, but it has been a great exercise in thinking.
WordWolf has some great points about the internet and Biblical research. It's very easy to find lots of information online that will help you to understand some of those difficult scriptures.
To me, the literals according to usage were very burdensome to read. They seemed to be filled with twi jargon - and no one in the real world really talks like twi does or did. They attach certain definitions to words that may or may not be true according to the generally accepted definition.
"Making it your own" is a good example. By looking at that phrase, I would think that it meant that I should study the material so that I could understand it for myself using my own experiences, thought processes, and logic. I might even do my own research so that I could understand the context or the people involved... But that is not the definition attached to it by twi...
LCM used to say that we were to go to all of twi's materials and look at them with the heart that we wanted to be "as convinced of the truth as our teachers." That does not allow for questioning, additional research, additional anything. We were to make their doctrine our doctrine without question. We were to line our thinking up with theirs no matter if they said something as ridiculous as the "all women belong to the King" doctrine that stated that David as the man of God had not sinned by committing adultury with Bathsheba. There was to be no questioning that, even if it was downright stupid and against all common sense.
Just make sure you think for yourself and read the Bible with THOUGHT behind it and trust your own thoughts - God made you and He made you able to think.
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doojable
The phrase, "working the Word" has become distasteful to me.
I mean, if you "work the system" or "work a person", that's not necessarily a good thing. It speaks of manipulation.
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waysider
And then, of course, there's "working the crowd". Lots of that went on, too.
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