It's kinda like math. It's a proof by construction (all cases).
when is it NOT right to strike a woman..
1. In supposed self defense. Unless one does not "possess" legs, one can run, can't they?
2. When they are just plain ornery. what about YOU bub? what makes YOU such a bargain?
3. When they are trying to force you over the line.. one of the BEST reasons not to act in anger. They will then prove to the judge and jury that you deserve to lose the house, the boat, the car, the big TV, the big stereo, the tools, the Christmas tree.. custody of kids, etc. etc.
4. When they are trying just to connect with you. what the friggin world did you marry her for? intimacy for three minutes a couple times a week? "sorry darlin.. don't bother me. we did that for a whole whoppin three and a half minutes last night.."
Of all the human beings I've met in this life.. I haven't compared a single one to a fly buzzing around my head..
I haven't met a single solitary human being that I'd "clock" to shut their mouths.. even at mankind's worst..
Maybe the mindset depends on one's priorities in life..
Seriously, Goey, what do you do if confronted with that? You have posted a nice little stained glass window style condemnation of my thoughts, but what would YOU do?
Use some self-restraint and just walk away.
Mr. Olson was a spineless wimp and should have asserted himself by taking the lead. Violence is not Godly way to do this in a marriqage. If Mrs Olson couldn't handle him taking the lead, then he could have put her and the brat kid on the stage back to wherever they came from. Or he could have gone to live on a rooftop somewhere. Bashing his loudmouth, coniving wife's face in may have shut her up, but would it have really solved anything? Besides, I'd be afraid to got to sleep with her in the house after doing something like that. Also , I could argue that maybe his wimpiness was a major contributor to her behavior in the first place.
John, do you really think that God is "ok" with with what you said he was ok with? Come on man..... I think that you have become ok with it ... for whatever reasons you may have. But God ok with it? That just doesn't fit with any understanding of God that I have.
One of the temptations many people have (I include myself) is to adjust our concept of God to match our own way of thinking or our own actions that we can't or don't wish to change. It's easier than changing.
It's not ok with God to recompense evil with evil. Yes, we do it some times, but let's not justify it in that way. Physical violence is not necessary to defend ones self from a nagging loudmouth woman. There are things called doors.
Maybe you don't like my tactic. Maybe someone doesn't
like yours.
Are you going to tell the teacher on me?
Prov. 30:33 - surely the churning of milk bringeth forth butter, and the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood; so the forcing of wrath bringeth forth strife
I remember being taught in twi, that if my husband ever hit me ...it was my fault....that if it ever occured, I should have never pushed him that far.
I remember being taught that if he ever committed adultery, it would have been my fault for not being sexy enough, appealing enough, inventive enough to hold his attention.
I remember believing this stuff....that it was up to me to be sharp enough to ward this stuff off.
If there was alcohol or abuse issues, squandered money issues....it was up to me to love him more, to pray for him more, but other than that I had no say so, no recourse, was not permitted any input.
This was taught as standard marriage conduct. This was what I was taught was required of a virtuous woman.
I wanted to be a virtuous woman, so I accepted whatever mistreatment was administered by tc, spouse, anyone...meekly and with humility, no matter how unwarranted, how unfair with the determination that I would try my hardest to do better.
We were taught this in twi, and it became part of our thinking process, to the point that I never ever questioned it`s validity.
I was just wondering just when and where this was taught. I seem to have missed that class
I have no problem Danny...I learned that John is a foul mouthed jerk and that you are a sleazy low-life that baits people just to start verbal fights on forums. Cman is just a little twit and not worth my time.
For the record I said SOME people here act like 12 year olds. Cman obviously decided that the shoe fit.
Now if you and your little buddy cman think you can SAY something that is going to hurt me or make me mad, please continue this foolishness cause I'm just laughing at your stupidity in doing so.
Have a nice day kiddies! I have work and meetings again today so I won't be able to join the fun.
Couple days ago on the radio there was this black state senator who plans on introducing a bill in which the state of MO formally apologizes to black people for slavery. It was talk radio, so people called in. Some agreed, some disagreed, and the senator said he refused to "get over it" for the same idealistic reasons which can be seen here. It struck me then that if one refuses to get over something then they will surely "stay under it".
On this thread we've now got Oakspear admitting he feels entitled to bring up my posts as clout any time he feels like it, and cman wants me arrested for posting my opinion like he thinks it's red China or nazi Germany. Just the mere knowledge that I have certain opinions is justification for derailing any thread, making up any slander, lashing out at any other poster who disagrees with you...?????
Danny has posted that he was born in '55 and that he has a 36 year old daughter. That means he got someone pregnant when he was 15. Not really a big deal in and of itself, but how much soap opera material could I infer from that? How many lewd scenerios could I speculate just from that small window of info? This place isn't going to be much fun anymore if too many posters do what he did.
Bluzeman your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.
People who think they are "better" then others, have your attitude.
Talking down to others like they are less then you makes you nothing.
And no, not trying to hurt anyone but put a mirror in your FACE!
*Warning, Warning* VIXXXENS Seen in Area of Personal Attacks and WW Sarcasm. Time to take the red pill and grow up before the X-Mess season is over and your children read this thread!
Don't forget...
Corps Principles & WOW Objectives need to be posted!
Right, Another undocumented doctrine Of course how convenient, I should have known...........
the women's sessions at couples advances consisted of those types of teachings, invariably. they were usually subtle, but always soul-stealing. wow training was another place I heard it, from B. Gr**n himself, a special confrontation just for me, but in front of a small group of outgoing wows. and strangely enough, the wow field was the first place my ex raised his fist to me.
when I left my ex, it was because of lying and violence, and M@rk W@11@ce still tried to talk me into staying married because I'd "regret it".
I was taught this during different womens advances in different states. Some of this was covered during pre marriage counceling with our lc.
I do not know if the teachings were more intense because I was marrying corpes and was only app myself....that I took it more seriously because of that.
I know that my spouse was under tremendous pressure to *keep me in line* so to speak...because in marrying me...he was putting his reputation on the line.
Not that he cared....I was the one terrified of bringing him shame, of reflecting badly on his spirituality. I never wanted him to be sorry that he chose me instead of a corpes woman.\
Now Dove, think about it....you not being a woman, and not being corpes, is it really any suprise that you wouldn`t be aware of what was taught at womens advances or in one on one private marriage sessions between individual couples and lc`s....or when a woman was being groomed to be a corpes man`s wife....???
It would be tempting to dismiss my account as exaggerated or as an isolated instance....except there seems to be others here who were held to the same rediculous standard.
Please don`t close your ears and heart to the horror that this standard created for women who were required to submit to horrible abuse with no recourse because we were taught that God gave that man ultimate and total authority over every decision in our lives.
To leave....for any reason would be to lose God`s hand of protection and blessing over ourselves and our children. Most of us could not face life without God.
Funny enough....it was this teaching....it was this standard that kept me at mark`s side when exiting twi....I was bitterly disapointed and angry that he would leave the ministry that taught us God`s word, and had I thought that there was any way for me to leave him and remain in God`s will, I would have done it in a heart beat and stayed with the ministry.
I don't remember ever remember getting pamphlets or note pages handed to me about how to treat my husband. I think if anyone sent out an official document stating literally all of the junk they ever taught us there would be more eyebrows raised.
A few things I was taught:
Guys - treat your wives well and they'll be good for you. They didn't go into detail about what they should do to be nice. They said to listen to your wife - but you had the final say.
Chicks - God > Your Husband > Your kids > You. Be submissive to your husband. And I quote: "Some women never are submissive enough to be married. If you cannot submit to a husband, then you shouldn't get married ever." Yes... taught that. I was pretty blinded by twi - but that never jived with me. Which was why I never wanted to marry anyone who was taught such things. Ugh.
All - Don't get married to anyone outside TWI - it just makes things harder if you don't agree on everything.
They usually had informal sex/family classes were speakers would talk about their marriages or how to have a good marriage. No leaflets or anything. You must take notes. I have them buried around here somewhere.
Since you can't take our word for it. What kind of documentation do you need? Notes with a date in a sealed envelope? Or a laundry list of wifey doctrine with the TWI president's signature on it? I'm not MA so I might be able to get it. XP
Nero, I don`t think any documentation, or number of personal accounts or testimoney would ever be good enough because it distorts that which folks desire to believe.
If my personal experience is contrary to how one wishes to percieve twi, I must be a liar....or exaggerated...or misunderstood, or deserved it.....etc
Sorry guys, life in twi really sucked for a lot of people....women and kids definately had no recourse.
Nero, I don`t think any documentation, or number of personal accounts or testimoney would ever be good enough because it distorts that which folks desire to believe.
If my personal experience is contrary to how one wishes to percieve twi, I must be a liar....or exaggerated...or misunderstood, or deserved it.....etc
Sorry guys, life in twi really sucked for a lot of people....women and kids definately had no recourse.
Okay, Okay, but you haven't told us...How was the SEX!!
This is life we are talking about...life made heartbreakingly difficult by having to adhere to these assinine teachings and rediculous standards....These burdens and abuse laid on our shoulders to bear silently and without protest if we desired to be in the center of God`s will.
This stuff was real, it was painfull and you want to minimalize it with flippant remarks about how was the sex??? Fella, I don`t understand you.
God and the scriptures were the tools used to place us into bondage. They were the tools utilized to ensure compliance against ones will and better judgement.
I think this was an outrage ....certainly not a joking matter.
Rascal - you are probably right. Some people don't listen - or do and just simply will not believe you no matter how many times you or other people say it. =( Some of my friends and family have been like that unfortunately. I'm lucky enough to have a cousin who has went through similar stuff - so it's been nice talking to her.
Okay, Okay, but you haven't told us...How was the SEX!!
You are such a dork Bumpy! XP
Bumpy,
This is life we are talking about...life made heartbreakingly difficult by having to adhere to these assinine teachings and rediculous standards....These burdens and abuse laid on our shoulders to bear silently and without protest if we desired to be in the center of God`s will.
This stuff was real, it was painfull and you want to minimalize it with flippant remarks about how was the sex??? Fella, I don`t understand why you are deliberately creepy to people.
God and the scriptures were the tools used to place us into bondage. They were the tools utilized to ensure compliance against ones will and better judgement.
I think this was an outrage ....certainly not a joking matter.
I wouldn't take Bumpy too seriously - he says that kind of stuff to everyone about anything.
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Ham
It's kinda like math. It's a proof by construction (all cases).
when is it NOT right to strike a woman..
1. In supposed self defense. Unless one does not "possess" legs, one can run, can't they?
2. When they are just plain ornery. what about YOU bub? what makes YOU such a bargain?
3. When they are trying to force you over the line.. one of the BEST reasons not to act in anger. They will then prove to the judge and jury that you deserve to lose the house, the boat, the car, the big TV, the big stereo, the tools, the Christmas tree.. custody of kids, etc. etc.
4. When they are trying just to connect with you. what the friggin world did you marry her for? intimacy for three minutes a couple times a week? "sorry darlin.. don't bother me. we did that for a whole whoppin three and a half minutes last night.."
Of all the human beings I've met in this life.. I haven't compared a single one to a fly buzzing around my head..
I haven't met a single solitary human being that I'd "clock" to shut their mouths.. even at mankind's worst..
Maybe the mindset depends on one's priorities in life..
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Danny
Hey Rick
You are dead wrong I"m 14.
And can see by your superior knowledge you post
went over well.
The bait was for a spade to show his true colors.
He did. Did you get caught up in it also?
Maybe you don't like my tactic. Maybe someone doesn't
like yours.
Are you going to tell the teacher on me?
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Goey
Use some self-restraint and just walk away.
Mr. Olson was a spineless wimp and should have asserted himself by taking the lead. Violence is not Godly way to do this in a marriqage. If Mrs Olson couldn't handle him taking the lead, then he could have put her and the brat kid on the stage back to wherever they came from. Or he could have gone to live on a rooftop somewhere. Bashing his loudmouth, coniving wife's face in may have shut her up, but would it have really solved anything? Besides, I'd be afraid to got to sleep with her in the house after doing something like that. Also , I could argue that maybe his wimpiness was a major contributor to her behavior in the first place.
John, do you really think that God is "ok" with with what you said he was ok with? Come on man..... I think that you have become ok with it ... for whatever reasons you may have. But God ok with it? That just doesn't fit with any understanding of God that I have.
One of the temptations many people have (I include myself) is to adjust our concept of God to match our own way of thinking or our own actions that we can't or don't wish to change. It's easier than changing.
It's not ok with God to recompense evil with evil. Yes, we do it some times, but let's not justify it in that way. Physical violence is not necessary to defend ones self from a nagging loudmouth woman. There are things called doors.
Please reconsider
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excathedra
i never saw that tv show
goey i'm so happy to see you
--
as far as violence slapping the crap out of anyone, trust me, i grew up with it, and it's never ever good
take it from the word of a 2 year old
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excathedra
never mind
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socks
If the psalmist had played a Strat, this song would have been in the bible.
Be a lover, not a fighter, and live. :)
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johniam
quote:
The bait was for a spade to show his true colors.
He did. Did you get caught up in it also?
Maybe you don't like my tactic. Maybe someone doesn't
like yours.
Are you going to tell the teacher on me?
Prov. 30:33 - surely the churning of milk bringeth forth butter, and the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood; so the forcing of wrath bringeth forth strife
Satisfied, Danny?
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WhiteDove
I was just wondering just when and where this was taught. I seem to have missed that class
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Bluzeman
I have no problem Danny...I learned that John is a foul mouthed jerk and that you are a sleazy low-life that baits people just to start verbal fights on forums. Cman is just a little twit and not worth my time.
For the record I said SOME people here act like 12 year olds. Cman obviously decided that the shoe fit.
Now if you and your little buddy cman think you can SAY something that is going to hurt me or make me mad, please continue this foolishness cause I'm just laughing at your stupidity in doing so.
Have a nice day kiddies! I have work and meetings again today so I won't be able to join the fun.
Rick
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WordWolf
A number of places, this came up here and there, usually NOT during the teachings, but during other activities and "down-time."
Usually, it came up TO A WOMAN, since it was about what they expected HER to do. Since you're a guy, it's less likely you
would get this lecture. The lecture you would get would be about making sure your wife knew who was boss, and about
making all the decisions.
Oh, that's right, I forgot....
if it wasn't in a class or in print, it never happened in twi, how silly of me.... <_<
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johniam
Couple days ago on the radio there was this black state senator who plans on introducing a bill in which the state of MO formally apologizes to black people for slavery. It was talk radio, so people called in. Some agreed, some disagreed, and the senator said he refused to "get over it" for the same idealistic reasons which can be seen here. It struck me then that if one refuses to get over something then they will surely "stay under it".
On this thread we've now got Oakspear admitting he feels entitled to bring up my posts as clout any time he feels like it, and cman wants me arrested for posting my opinion like he thinks it's red China or nazi Germany. Just the mere knowledge that I have certain opinions is justification for derailing any thread, making up any slander, lashing out at any other poster who disagrees with you...?????
Danny has posted that he was born in '55 and that he has a 36 year old daughter. That means he got someone pregnant when he was 15. Not really a big deal in and of itself, but how much soap opera material could I infer from that? How many lewd scenerios could I speculate just from that small window of info? This place isn't going to be much fun anymore if too many posters do what he did.
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cman
Bluzeman your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.
People who think they are "better" then others, have your attitude.
Talking down to others like they are less then you makes you nothing.
And no, not trying to hurt anyone but put a mirror in your FACE!
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WhiteDove
Right, Another undocumented doctrine Of course how convenient, I should have known...........
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Bumpy
*Warning, Warning* VIXXXENS Seen in Area of Personal Attacks and WW Sarcasm. Time to take the red pill and grow up before the X-Mess season is over and your children read this thread!
Don't forget...
Corps Principles & WOW Objectives need to be posted!
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potato
the women's sessions at couples advances consisted of those types of teachings, invariably. they were usually subtle, but always soul-stealing. wow training was another place I heard it, from B. Gr**n himself, a special confrontation just for me, but in front of a small group of outgoing wows. and strangely enough, the wow field was the first place my ex raised his fist to me.
when I left my ex, it was because of lying and violence, and M@rk W@11@ce still tried to talk me into staying married because I'd "regret it".
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rascal
Dove, that was kind of ugly.
I was taught this during different womens advances in different states. Some of this was covered during pre marriage counceling with our lc.
I do not know if the teachings were more intense because I was marrying corpes and was only app myself....that I took it more seriously because of that.
I know that my spouse was under tremendous pressure to *keep me in line* so to speak...because in marrying me...he was putting his reputation on the line.
Not that he cared....I was the one terrified of bringing him shame, of reflecting badly on his spirituality. I never wanted him to be sorry that he chose me instead of a corpes woman.\
Now Dove, think about it....you not being a woman, and not being corpes, is it really any suprise that you wouldn`t be aware of what was taught at womens advances or in one on one private marriage sessions between individual couples and lc`s....or when a woman was being groomed to be a corpes man`s wife....???
It would be tempting to dismiss my account as exaggerated or as an isolated instance....except there seems to be others here who were held to the same rediculous standard.
Please don`t close your ears and heart to the horror that this standard created for women who were required to submit to horrible abuse with no recourse because we were taught that God gave that man ultimate and total authority over every decision in our lives.
To leave....for any reason would be to lose God`s hand of protection and blessing over ourselves and our children. Most of us could not face life without God.
Funny enough....it was this teaching....it was this standard that kept me at mark`s side when exiting twi....I was bitterly disapointed and angry that he would leave the ministry that taught us God`s word, and had I thought that there was any way for me to leave him and remain in God`s will, I would have done it in a heart beat and stayed with the ministry.
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Nero
I don't remember ever remember getting pamphlets or note pages handed to me about how to treat my husband. I think if anyone sent out an official document stating literally all of the junk they ever taught us there would be more eyebrows raised.
A few things I was taught:
Guys - treat your wives well and they'll be good for you. They didn't go into detail about what they should do to be nice. They said to listen to your wife - but you had the final say.
Chicks - God > Your Husband > Your kids > You. Be submissive to your husband. And I quote: "Some women never are submissive enough to be married. If you cannot submit to a husband, then you shouldn't get married ever." Yes... taught that. I was pretty blinded by twi - but that never jived with me. Which was why I never wanted to marry anyone who was taught such things. Ugh.
All - Don't get married to anyone outside TWI - it just makes things harder if you don't agree on everything.
They usually had informal sex/family classes were speakers would talk about their marriages or how to have a good marriage. No leaflets or anything. You must take notes. I have them buried around here somewhere.
Since you can't take our word for it. What kind of documentation do you need? Notes with a date in a sealed envelope? Or a laundry list of wifey doctrine with the TWI president's signature on it? I'm not MA so I might be able to get it. XP
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rascal
Nero, I don`t think any documentation, or number of personal accounts or testimoney would ever be good enough because it distorts that which folks desire to believe.
If my personal experience is contrary to how one wishes to percieve twi, I must be a liar....or exaggerated...or misunderstood, or deserved it.....etc
Sorry guys, life in twi really sucked for a lot of people....women and kids definately had no recourse.
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Bumpy
Okay, Okay, but you haven't told us...How was the SEX!!
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rascal
Bumpy,
This is life we are talking about...life made heartbreakingly difficult by having to adhere to these assinine teachings and rediculous standards....These burdens and abuse laid on our shoulders to bear silently and without protest if we desired to be in the center of God`s will.
This stuff was real, it was painfull and you want to minimalize it with flippant remarks about how was the sex??? Fella, I don`t understand you.
God and the scriptures were the tools used to place us into bondage. They were the tools utilized to ensure compliance against ones will and better judgement.
I think this was an outrage ....certainly not a joking matter.
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Nero
Rascal - you are probably right. Some people don't listen - or do and just simply will not believe you no matter how many times you or other people say it. =( Some of my friends and family have been like that unfortunately. I'm lucky enough to have a cousin who has went through similar stuff - so it's been nice talking to her.
You are such a dork Bumpy! XP
I wouldn't take Bumpy too seriously - he says that kind of stuff to everyone about anything.
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Ham
Oh yeah.. and the "counselling" advice given to some people..
"take your kid out in the wilderness, where no one can hear his/her screams as you beat the *^#@ out of them.."
No, "they" won't give you an autographed copy of their book of "sound advice" either.
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potato
I like your sigline, Hammy. it made some obnoxious things run through my head but I stopped myself from typing them.
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Ham
well, I tried to say it as delicately as possible.
Thought of this after looking over stuff on the CES threads..
if someone just had the gumption to spay/neuter twi, we wouldn't be confronted with this nonsense, would we?
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