...By not allowing questions during the class, the "pfal experience" became a subjective one...there were no healthy question/answer exchanges between teacher and student...the experience was like sitting there watching television...where you do not participate, you merely sit there like a sponge soaking it up.
I believe that most forms of indoctrination operate this way.
Yes, and added to which, the class might well be run by WoWs who themselves only took the class last year and may not know much other stuff about the Bible and certainly weren't able to answer questions posed by Christians who had been around (in other churches) for many years.
My mum took PFAL and talked with the class coord privately thereafter with some queries. He threw her out. She was a disruptive influence or some such - she's never given me a blow by blow account of their conversation but she dislikes him immensely.
Making people wait was a great way of insuring most of the questions would get forgotten or that people would be too indoctrinated to bring them up in the end... And, of course, they told you not to take notes, so I actually saw folks get reamed over writing during a session, even though what they were writing was the questions they were told to write down and ask at the end...
In addition, I saw a couple of situations where a person actually did ask questions at the end, but weren't as receptive to the answers they got as the leadership wanted, and those folks were told they were just there trying to make trouble and were escorted from the room and told they had not officially graduated from the class and were not welcome to come back!
(((why didn't that wake me up at the time...????)))
I think the "hold the ketchup, hold the questions" strategy merely allowed one to wade through thrity six hours of mind numbing minutae which left one so numb that the poor person couldn't remember that they had questions, no less remembering what they really were..
Making people wait was a great way of insuring most of the questions would get forgotten or that people would be too indoctrinated to bring them up in the end... And, of course, they told you not to take notes, so I actually saw folks get reamed over writing during a session, even though what they were writing was the questions they were told to write down and ask at the end...
In addition, I saw a couple of situations where a person actually did ask questions at the end, but weren't as receptive to the answers they got as the leadership wanted, and those folks were told they were just there trying to make trouble and were escorted from the room and told they had not officially graduated from the class and were not welcome to come back!
(((why didn't that wake me up at the time...????)))
Depends on where and when the class was run.
I was a fulltime student when I took that class.
And I was an EXCELLENT note-taker. (Well, it was "my job.")
So, when Session I began, I had the syllabus, a large-print Bible, and a book to take notes in all on my lap, and I successfully juggled all three
until the first pause. At that point, the person running the class let me know I could take the notes in the syllabus.
(Which worked better for everyone.)
Taking notes was one way I kept awake through the whole thing.
In fact, I also got other people taking notes in later classes for the same reason. ("Professional student.")
Then again, in NYC, things didn't really conform so closely to the expected standard.
(That's why almost everyone IN NYC left when lcm drew his line in the sand in 1989.)
It wouldn't surprise me if the remainder started banning that practice in the 1990s.
I think the "hold the ketchup, hold the questions" strategy merely allowed one to wade through thrity six hours of mind numbing minutae which left one so numb that the poor person couldn't remember that they had questions, no less remembering what they really were..
Locally, we had it SO much better than in most of your areas.
One guy I know, his class, they were told to write down their questions before session 1 began-
questions they wanted answered.
After session 12, the questions were gone over, and most of them had been touched on during the class.
(His question: What about the dinosaurs? Session 6.)
Then again, when conforming corps were placed here, their efforts were a lot like kicking a bale of cotton-
the impression went away as soon as you moved your foot. :)
Well.. every single class I've had on the university level the instructor was HAPPY to answer questions along with the lecture. I go to a smaller, ACCREDITED university. Even with a class size as large as fifty.. the psychology professor would answer questions during lecture, and somehow *miraculously* stay on schedule. And that was psychology 100. Supposed to cover the "basic keys" and all.. basic vocabulary.
They include extra time for questions in their overall plan.
"Maximum learning, in a minimim of time" certainly would include answering questions.
"well, if you don't *get it* the first time through, just take it again.."
I wouldn't be exactly a happy customer if that were the case with math 472, math 402..
The other thing I think holding of questions to the end does.. one cannot address errors when they occur.
My complex analysis professor has a standing offer of one point for each error any student in the class can find in the lecture. I scored one point last night.. :)
The guy has a real, honest to God LEGITIMATE doctorate in mathmatics..
Been teaching for DECADES.. and from his demeanor, the only thing that would make one think he had the degree.. is that he really knows his stuff, and cares enough to make sure people "get it right" the first time around.
The other thing I think holding of questions to the end does.. one cannot address errors when they occur.
I had a high school history class where the teacher collected all our tests (once every two weeks) and told us the grade but never let us see the corrected papers until he handed them back right before the mid-term or finals. We complained, but we just couldn't get him to understand our point of view... looking at what you got wrong right after you took the test helped you remember it better. Looking at what you got wrong weeks later had so much less impact.
I think it's the same with not being able to ask a question during piffle. If you could ask when it was fresh on your mind, you could focus on why it was important and remember the details of the argument. But having to wait until the end, you kinda felt like, "oh, nevermind, it probably wasn't that important". At least, that's how I remember feeling when I looked at the handful of questions I had jotted down. I never bothered asking them.
When I first took the class, we wrote our questions down and they were answered at the end of the class. However, they were gathered after each night. This was to supposed to give the people running the class time to look up the answers or if they didn't know the answers find someone who did. Maybe not as quick as I wanted, but they did make an attempt to answer them.
I also remember being so excited about what I was learning that I finished all the books the first night. It was the first time anything religious had ever made any kind of sense to me. Of course, I never stopped asking questions either which made me kind of a pain. Left in '77 came back for about 6 months in around '90, still asking questions. W. C. now with CFF, was the only person durring that time that tried to work with me and give me any real answers during that time. Sometimes I wonder if some my questions might have helped him make the decision to leave later.
In a recorded class, holding the questions till the end makes some sense to me. If it had been a live class, I would expect that there would be a question and answer session at the end of each night.
Recommended Posts
GrouchoMarxJr
...By not allowing questions during the class, the "pfal experience" became a subjective one...there were no healthy question/answer exchanges between teacher and student...the experience was like sitting there watching television...where you do not participate, you merely sit there like a sponge soaking it up.
I believe that most forms of indoctrination operate this way.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Yes, and added to which, the class might well be run by WoWs who themselves only took the class last year and may not know much other stuff about the Bible and certainly weren't able to answer questions posed by Christians who had been around (in other churches) for many years.
My mum took PFAL and talked with the class coord privately thereafter with some queries. He threw her out. She was a disruptive influence or some such - she's never given me a blow by blow account of their conversation but she dislikes him immensely.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
Making people wait was a great way of insuring most of the questions would get forgotten or that people would be too indoctrinated to bring them up in the end... And, of course, they told you not to take notes, so I actually saw folks get reamed over writing during a session, even though what they were writing was the questions they were told to write down and ask at the end...
In addition, I saw a couple of situations where a person actually did ask questions at the end, but weren't as receptive to the answers they got as the leadership wanted, and those folks were told they were just there trying to make trouble and were escorted from the room and told they had not officially graduated from the class and were not welcome to come back!
(((why didn't that wake me up at the time...????)))
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i was holding all my questions, but by then i was so lovingly embraced, i didn't want to ask....
i don't even think i wrote
the teacher
box 328
new knoxville oh 45871
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Shellon
Heck I still have questions
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
then i suggest you write:
the teacher
box 328
new knoxville oh 45871
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
A question held 'til the end.
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
cheranne
don't ask.don't tell......
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
oops!
I edited before I saw your post.
Sorry.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I think the "hold the ketchup, hold the questions" strategy merely allowed one to wade through thrity six hours of mind numbing minutae which left one so numb that the poor person couldn't remember that they had questions, no less remembering what they really were..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jim
It was all I could do to hold my water until the end.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Depends on where and when the class was run.
I was a fulltime student when I took that class.
And I was an EXCELLENT note-taker. (Well, it was "my job.")
So, when Session I began, I had the syllabus, a large-print Bible, and a book to take notes in all on my lap, and I successfully juggled all three
until the first pause. At that point, the person running the class let me know I could take the notes in the syllabus.
(Which worked better for everyone.)
Taking notes was one way I kept awake through the whole thing.
In fact, I also got other people taking notes in later classes for the same reason. ("Professional student.")
Then again, in NYC, things didn't really conform so closely to the expected standard.
(That's why almost everyone IN NYC left when lcm drew his line in the sand in 1989.)
It wouldn't surprise me if the remainder started banning that practice in the 1990s.
Locally, we had it SO much better than in most of your areas.
One guy I know, his class, they were told to write down their questions before session 1 began-
questions they wanted answered.
After session 12, the questions were gone over, and most of them had been touched on during the class.
(His question: What about the dinosaurs? Session 6.)
Then again, when conforming corps were placed here, their efforts were a lot like kicking a bale of cotton-
the impression went away as soon as you moved your foot. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Interesting.
Well.. every single class I've had on the university level the instructor was HAPPY to answer questions along with the lecture. I go to a smaller, ACCREDITED university. Even with a class size as large as fifty.. the psychology professor would answer questions during lecture, and somehow *miraculously* stay on schedule. And that was psychology 100. Supposed to cover the "basic keys" and all.. basic vocabulary.
They include extra time for questions in their overall plan.
"Maximum learning, in a minimim of time" certainly would include answering questions.
"well, if you don't *get it* the first time through, just take it again.."
I wouldn't be exactly a happy customer if that were the case with math 472, math 402..
The other thing I think holding of questions to the end does.. one cannot address errors when they occur.
My complex analysis professor has a standing offer of one point for each error any student in the class can find in the lecture. I scored one point last night.. :)
The guy has a real, honest to God LEGITIMATE doctorate in mathmatics..
Been teaching for DECADES.. and from his demeanor, the only thing that would make one think he had the degree.. is that he really knows his stuff, and cares enough to make sure people "get it right" the first time around.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
I had a high school history class where the teacher collected all our tests (once every two weeks) and told us the grade but never let us see the corrected papers until he handed them back right before the mid-term or finals. We complained, but we just couldn't get him to understand our point of view... looking at what you got wrong right after you took the test helped you remember it better. Looking at what you got wrong weeks later had so much less impact.
I think it's the same with not being able to ask a question during piffle. If you could ask when it was fresh on your mind, you could focus on why it was important and remember the details of the argument. But having to wait until the end, you kinda felt like, "oh, nevermind, it probably wasn't that important". At least, that's how I remember feeling when I looked at the handful of questions I had jotted down. I never bothered asking them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Keith
When I first took the class, we wrote our questions down and they were answered at the end of the class. However, they were gathered after each night. This was to supposed to give the people running the class time to look up the answers or if they didn't know the answers find someone who did. Maybe not as quick as I wanted, but they did make an attempt to answer them.
I also remember being so excited about what I was learning that I finished all the books the first night. It was the first time anything religious had ever made any kind of sense to me. Of course, I never stopped asking questions either which made me kind of a pain. Left in '77 came back for about 6 months in around '90, still asking questions. W. C. now with CFF, was the only person durring that time that tried to work with me and give me any real answers during that time. Sometimes I wonder if some my questions might have helped him make the decision to leave later.
In a recorded class, holding the questions till the end makes some sense to me. If it had been a live class, I would expect that there would be a question and answer session at the end of each night.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.