You will find that there are 2-3 people on this board who are publically Catholic. You will (probably not) find that there are a couple of others who are "in the closet" about it (as there are a lot who are vehemently against anything Catholic).
follows:
What's the difference between a Catholic and a Baptist? Catholics say "hi" to each other in the liquor store.
What's another difference: You can go fishing with just one Catholic. However, you must always go fishing with more than one Baptist. If you go with just one, he will drink all of your beer.
A man went to heaven and was being shown around by St. Peter.
As they went from cloud to cloud they came to various doors which St. Peter would open. One showed a large group rolling on the floor and talking in tongues. "Our Pentecostals" he said..
Next was a serious ritual. "Our Jewish persuasion" he replied.
Then another ritualistic service. "Our Catholics".
At the next cloud, he didn't open the door but instead put his forefinger to his lips in the hush motion and they both tip toed past.. Once past, the man asked what that was all about !? "Those are the Baptists", he explained. "They think they are the only one's here".
A man walks into the woman's section of a department store and tells the sales clerk he wants to buy a bra for his wife. "What type of bra?" asked the clerk. "Type?" inquires the man, "there's more than one type?" "There are three types," replies the clerk, "The Catholic type, the Salvation Army type, and the Baptist type. Which one do you need?" Still confused the man asked, "What is the difference in them?" The clerk responds, "It is really very easy. The Catholic type supports the masses, the Salvation Army type lifts up the fallen and the Baptist type makes mountain's out of mole hills."
Oh, and just to be fair:
In North Ireland a Protestant man married a Catholic woman. After their marriage he decided to covert to the Catholic church. So he went to the preist and took instructions and was later baptized Catholic.
He had one problem however. He couldn't get it into his skull that he was a Catholic man, and no longer a Protestant. This became such a problem that he returned to the priest and asked for some advice. The priest told him that if he was to repeat the phrase "I'm a Catholic, not a Protestant" enough times the idea might penetrate his thick skull. The man left mumbling to himself, "I'm a Catholic, not a Protestant. I'm a Catholic, not a Protestant."
The next Friday the priest decided to visit the newlyweds. He knocked on the door and was greeted by the wife. When he stepped in, he smelled something that should not be in a Catholic's home on a Friday. He asked the wife where her husband was, and she replied that he was in the kitchen. The priest walked into the kitchen and saw the man pouring thick brown gravy on a thick hunk of roast beef. Agast, the priest was about to explode when he heard the man mumble, "You're a trout, not a cow. You're a trout, not a cow."
I was raised Catholic but drifted away in my teen years. I suspect a lot of folks went that route. Of late, I've been considering going back.
I'm not sure why that is, but I'm at the point where I want to give some more of my time and energy to charitable causes. Its hard to argue with the array of charitable causes started and supported by the Catholic church. The opportunity is definitely there.
In the end, Catholics aren't doing anything different than any other Christian group. I've heard some astounding teachings over the past year or so on EWTN radio and have found some interesting historical reading related to the RCC, church fathers and some of the communities they have established through the centuries. Its hard to imagine an organization with more cultural impact than the RCC.
Try reading some of Mark O'Malley's posts here on Greasespot. You might not agree with him, but you can't deny his discussions are pointed, well argued and interesting. And surprise, surprise, they have a biblical basis! Who woulda thunk it from one of them there Catholics? :)
I was brought up RC. I learned Latin and Greek in high school. I was even participating in the campus RC church choir while running a twig. Do I have any desire to go back? No. My wife does, but that's more for the music than anything else. I've been to several masses over the last few years (weddings, funerals). I find it amazing (and a little distrubing) that I can still remember essentially the whole Consecration prayer.
I was brought up RC. I learned Latin and Greek in high school. I was even participating in the campus RC church choir while running a twig. Do I have any desire to go back? No. My wife does, but that's more for the music than anything else. I've been to several masses over the last few years (weddings, funerals). I find it amazing (and a little distrubing) that I can still remember essentially the whole Consecration prayer.
George
Isn't that the truth,all my family is catholic and when i visit them in texas it comes back,my kids don't know anything they just follow the kneel,sit,stand and try to not upset great grandma,my sister is wiccan,i am not active in any organization,but accept all parts of the body of christ as the family of God.
I'm against ANYONE who molests anyone.... and it's not forgetting as much as having to make it go away to bear what they do to you and being helpless to stop it. some of them spoke up and were called liars. if something that bad happens to a kid and they are told they're the ones doing evil, it warps their mind.
I was raised athiest and A.T.W.I. (after the way international) I married a catholic boy.
I think I "got over it"- the way bashing of catholics, priests.. when I finally figured they didn't do anything to ME, at least personally.. no real problem here. But then I have to deal with what some of the priests did to others.
Having been raised Catholic, I am not a big fan of the Catholic Church. Just because an organization or any organization for that matter, does good works, that does not excuse the huge doctrinal error they support through their deliberate distortion of the scriptures.
For instance:
1) Confession of sin through a priest in order to have your sins forgiven.
2) Priest and nuns cannot marry. Deliberate hiding of sexual misconduct of priests with young children for years (By the way, what activity of a religious organization could be worse than the sexual abuse of children or for that matter, included in the definition of a cult).
3) Saint and statute worship
4) That what the pope says can be infallible (meaning without error). I thought the Bible says Jesus Christ is the only perfect man?
5) Mortal and venial sins
6) Limbo and Purgatory
7) Praying to Mary and praying the rosary
8) Mary assumed into heaven just like Jesus Christ
9) Holy water and communion ( that is, that they turn it into the ACTUAL body and blood of Jesus Christ).
10) If you die without going to church on Sunday it is a mortal sin and you are going to hell.
11) I know of someone recently who was married for several years and got his marriage ANNULED because he wanted to marry someone else and having a marriage annuled is ok but divorce is not. Of course, it did not hurt in convincing the local Bishop or whoever was responsible because he donated a lot of money to the church.
When I mentioned these beliefs that could not be proven with bible scripture to my grandmother she said " I am a good Catholic, I DO NOT CARE THAT IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE, I believe what the Catholic Church teaches."
I would like any present Catholics reading this to explain how the "good works" the Catholics presently do somehow makes up for not being accountable to God to change their present beliefs to line up with what the Bible actually says. And to admit that the millions of murders (ie: the Crusades, this is not speculation but historical fact) that they were responsible for were wrong and NOT JUSTIFIED BECAUSE OF THE TIME PERIOD THEY WERE DONE.
We talk about various organizations being cults, including the Way. The truth is, the Catholic Church is by far the largest cult in the world and it has held the number one position for centuries. Just because someone does good works they do not get saved (Ephesians 2:8-10) and just because an organization does good works, any organization including the Catholic Church, does not mean that organization is not a cult.
I went to mass with a friend recently, just to go, and to affirm my support for her faith. It had been a while (other than a few weddings/funerals). I was a nominal Catholic growing up, a free bird in my teens. I got born again in my early twenties, and then made the mistake of trying to learn and live the Word in TWI, which I did for many years. Not that things haven't worked out. The foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
What's central to the mass is communion, and I love that about it. What was central to a TWI worship service was, ostensively, "the Word" (really, it was PFAL, or DrW's interpretation of the word.)
While I agree with most of the doctrinal arguments listed above against the RCC, the Reformation introduced some of its own error. The Catholics, though reprehensible in many ways throughout history, were at times the preservers of the faith and the Word. Man has a way of messing up perfection. The Pharisees did it with Judaism, and all denominations have done it with Christianity. But in the midst of the theological foolishness of the wise guys in the first century, there were people like Mary and Simeon and the shepherds, who waited for the Consolation of Israel. And today there are true saints in the denominations. The Way Ministry was no exception. I've thought at times of starting a thread called "Many Ways," a nod to Ted Ferrel's great song. Sometimes it is clear that "The Way" that someone else experienced is not "The Way" in which I was involved. Some of it is because "TWI2" (under LCM) was indeed different from earlier times, and some of it was different because of local differences, just as it is with Baptist Churches or Toastmasters International. And some of it is just in our perceptions.
I can think of no more reprehensible act than child molestation by someone who should be trustworthy, whether it be a priest or a childcare worker or teacher. I believe that doctrinal issues in the RCC, including some mentioned above, is partly the cause of the sensational incidents that have been brought to light, whether they are under-reported or over-reported. (I expect that Ex is correct -- that they are under-reported.)
The Catholic Way is not my Way. My view is that Catholics blithely ignore whatever it is they don't want to believe, and that for me is not authentic, and I want to be authentic. But some of the Catholics I know are some of the finest people on earth, and some of the Catholic writers and scholars that I have read are among the best in authentically addressing issues of faith and practice. The Catholic Church is evolving. Vatican Council 2 was a huge step in the right direction.
I've given up looking for a perfect church. I often hang out with "independent" little churches, but I can appreciate larger denominational churches, too. Ain't none of them perfect. That's part of why, I guess, Ephesians 4:1ff was written. If I have the forbearance and humility that Paul writes about there, I may possibly be a contributer, a builder (one who edifies) in whatever congregation I may be a part of.
as mark will tell you,many,many things have changed over the years and imo to the good
i can't remember who posted about church members going to midnite mass a little buzzed but how about ole barnyard vic teaching the word totally buzzed!!
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markomalley
You will find that there are 2-3 people on this board who are publically Catholic. You will (probably not) find that there are a couple of others who are "in the closet" about it (as there are a lot who are vehemently against anything Catholic).
What's the difference between a Catholic and a Baptist? Catholics say "hi" to each other in the liquor store.
What's another difference: You can go fishing with just one Catholic. However, you must always go fishing with more than one Baptist. If you go with just one, he will drink all of your beer.
A man went to heaven and was being shown around by St. Peter.
As they went from cloud to cloud they came to various doors which St. Peter would open. One showed a large group rolling on the floor and talking in tongues. "Our Pentecostals" he said..
Next was a serious ritual. "Our Jewish persuasion" he replied.
Then another ritualistic service. "Our Catholics".
At the next cloud, he didn't open the door but instead put his forefinger to his lips in the hush motion and they both tip toed past.. Once past, the man asked what that was all about !? "Those are the Baptists", he explained. "They think they are the only one's here".
A man walks into the woman's section of a department store and tells the sales clerk he wants to buy a bra for his wife. "What type of bra?" asked the clerk. "Type?" inquires the man, "there's more than one type?" "There are three types," replies the clerk, "The Catholic type, the Salvation Army type, and the Baptist type. Which one do you need?" Still confused the man asked, "What is the difference in them?" The clerk responds, "It is really very easy. The Catholic type supports the masses, the Salvation Army type lifts up the fallen and the Baptist type makes mountain's out of mole hills."
Oh, and just to be fair:
In North Ireland a Protestant man married a Catholic woman. After their marriage he decided to covert to the Catholic church. So he went to the preist and took instructions and was later baptized Catholic.
He had one problem however. He couldn't get it into his skull that he was a Catholic man, and no longer a Protestant. This became such a problem that he returned to the priest and asked for some advice. The priest told him that if he was to repeat the phrase "I'm a Catholic, not a Protestant" enough times the idea might penetrate his thick skull. The man left mumbling to himself, "I'm a Catholic, not a Protestant. I'm a Catholic, not a Protestant."
The next Friday the priest decided to visit the newlyweds. He knocked on the door and was greeted by the wife. When he stepped in, he smelled something that should not be in a Catholic's home on a Friday. He asked the wife where her husband was, and she replied that he was in the kitchen. The priest walked into the kitchen and saw the man pouring thick brown gravy on a thick hunk of roast beef. Agast, the priest was about to explode when he heard the man mumble, "You're a trout, not a cow. You're a trout, not a cow."
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coolchef
i was raised in the rcc
for years i did not go back,when my mom got sick she asked me to go to mass with her every week
i did for the last year of her life and i still do,though not every week
it has changed alot from when i was a kid,much to the better imo
and the wine is great!!!
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JumpinJive
I was raised Catholic but drifted away in my teen years. I suspect a lot of folks went that route. Of late, I've been considering going back.
I'm not sure why that is, but I'm at the point where I want to give some more of my time and energy to charitable causes. Its hard to argue with the array of charitable causes started and supported by the Catholic church. The opportunity is definitely there.
In the end, Catholics aren't doing anything different than any other Christian group. I've heard some astounding teachings over the past year or so on EWTN radio and have found some interesting historical reading related to the RCC, church fathers and some of the communities they have established through the centuries. Its hard to imagine an organization with more cultural impact than the RCC.
Try reading some of Mark O'Malley's posts here on Greasespot. You might not agree with him, but you can't deny his discussions are pointed, well argued and interesting. And surprise, surprise, they have a biblical basis! Who woulda thunk it from one of them there Catholics? :)
-JJ
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GeorgeStGeorge
I was brought up RC. I learned Latin and Greek in high school. I was even participating in the campus RC church choir while running a twig. Do I have any desire to go back? No. My wife does, but that's more for the music than anything else. I've been to several masses over the last few years (weddings, funerals). I find it amazing (and a little distrubing) that I can still remember essentially the whole Consecration prayer.
George
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coolchef
st geo.
i know, scarey how it all comes back!
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cheranne
Isn't that the truth,all my family is catholic and when i visit them in texas it comes back,my kids don't know anything they just follow the kneel,sit,stand and try to not upset great grandma,my sister is wiccan,i am not active in any organization,but accept all parts of the body of christ as the family of God.
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excathedra
i'm only against priests who molest little boys
and those who think it's okay
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coolchef
ex i agree
but i don't think it was done as much as the media carries,i.e.
"a priest fondled me 20 yrs ago ,i forgot ,now i am 55 and want 50 million.
sure it happened but alot of these charletans are just that
imo
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waysider
i'm only against priests who molest anybody.
and those who think it's okay
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excathedra
agreed waysider
dear cool, i think it has been "underreported" is that a word ?
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potato
I'm against ANYONE who molests anyone.... and it's not forgetting as much as having to make it go away to bear what they do to you and being helpless to stop it. some of them spoke up and were called liars. if something that bad happens to a kid and they are told they're the ones doing evil, it warps their mind.
I was raised athiest and A.T.W.I. (after the way international) I married a catholic boy.
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excathedra
and
very very very :(
--
ps. mark your jokes were fantastic even though i didn't get through them all
but they do take away from real tragedy
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markomalley
And the bishops who don't enforce Church law...enabling this to happen.
Thanks!
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cheranne
sorry...i didn't think of that,i was just thinking of the laid back catholics that go to midnight mass buzzed!
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Ham
I dunno..
I think I "got over it"- the way bashing of catholics, priests.. when I finally figured they didn't do anything to ME, at least personally.. no real problem here. But then I have to deal with what some of the priests did to others.
It's like.. a whole different set of problems..
at least on a personal level.
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Paradiseden
Having been raised Catholic, I am not a big fan of the Catholic Church. Just because an organization or any organization for that matter, does good works, that does not excuse the huge doctrinal error they support through their deliberate distortion of the scriptures.
For instance:
1) Confession of sin through a priest in order to have your sins forgiven.
2) Priest and nuns cannot marry. Deliberate hiding of sexual misconduct of priests with young children for years (By the way, what activity of a religious organization could be worse than the sexual abuse of children or for that matter, included in the definition of a cult).
3) Saint and statute worship
4) That what the pope says can be infallible (meaning without error). I thought the Bible says Jesus Christ is the only perfect man?
5) Mortal and venial sins
6) Limbo and Purgatory
7) Praying to Mary and praying the rosary
8) Mary assumed into heaven just like Jesus Christ
9) Holy water and communion ( that is, that they turn it into the ACTUAL body and blood of Jesus Christ).
10) If you die without going to church on Sunday it is a mortal sin and you are going to hell.
11) I know of someone recently who was married for several years and got his marriage ANNULED because he wanted to marry someone else and having a marriage annuled is ok but divorce is not. Of course, it did not hurt in convincing the local Bishop or whoever was responsible because he donated a lot of money to the church.
When I mentioned these beliefs that could not be proven with bible scripture to my grandmother she said " I am a good Catholic, I DO NOT CARE THAT IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE, I believe what the Catholic Church teaches."
I would like any present Catholics reading this to explain how the "good works" the Catholics presently do somehow makes up for not being accountable to God to change their present beliefs to line up with what the Bible actually says. And to admit that the millions of murders (ie: the Crusades, this is not speculation but historical fact) that they were responsible for were wrong and NOT JUSTIFIED BECAUSE OF THE TIME PERIOD THEY WERE DONE.
We talk about various organizations being cults, including the Way. The truth is, the Catholic Church is by far the largest cult in the world and it has held the number one position for centuries. Just because someone does good works they do not get saved (Ephesians 2:8-10) and just because an organization does good works, any organization including the Catholic Church, does not mean that organization is not a cult.
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Ham
I dunno. If they aren't, maybe that's the "problem".
I had lessee.. four catholics, one *kinda* ex catholic, and one catholic "potential" in my house tonight.
Me? I'm a Druid.. a Christian.. a Pagan.. a.. whatever label a person would want to put on me... Spiritualist..
An Atheist, a Pantheist.. gawd.. I'm screwed up.. heheh
but these particular Catholics didn't ask me where my loyalty lied when they chose to share their lives with me.
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Ham
I dunno..
from what I understand.. they take "works" very very seriously..
maybe not the priests and cardinals who sin.. but the "normal".. day to day "believer". Maybe.. kinda like us here.. or at least most of us.
my other dear friend.. claims the Kaballah only authorizes.. not miracles, not utterances of the names of God.. but acts of loving kindness..
isn't this the same thing?
just a thought..
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anotherDan
I went to mass with a friend recently, just to go, and to affirm my support for her faith. It had been a while (other than a few weddings/funerals). I was a nominal Catholic growing up, a free bird in my teens. I got born again in my early twenties, and then made the mistake of trying to learn and live the Word in TWI, which I did for many years. Not that things haven't worked out. The foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
What's central to the mass is communion, and I love that about it. What was central to a TWI worship service was, ostensively, "the Word" (really, it was PFAL, or DrW's interpretation of the word.)
While I agree with most of the doctrinal arguments listed above against the RCC, the Reformation introduced some of its own error. The Catholics, though reprehensible in many ways throughout history, were at times the preservers of the faith and the Word. Man has a way of messing up perfection. The Pharisees did it with Judaism, and all denominations have done it with Christianity. But in the midst of the theological foolishness of the wise guys in the first century, there were people like Mary and Simeon and the shepherds, who waited for the Consolation of Israel. And today there are true saints in the denominations. The Way Ministry was no exception. I've thought at times of starting a thread called "Many Ways," a nod to Ted Ferrel's great song. Sometimes it is clear that "The Way" that someone else experienced is not "The Way" in which I was involved. Some of it is because "TWI2" (under LCM) was indeed different from earlier times, and some of it was different because of local differences, just as it is with Baptist Churches or Toastmasters International. And some of it is just in our perceptions.
I can think of no more reprehensible act than child molestation by someone who should be trustworthy, whether it be a priest or a childcare worker or teacher. I believe that doctrinal issues in the RCC, including some mentioned above, is partly the cause of the sensational incidents that have been brought to light, whether they are under-reported or over-reported. (I expect that Ex is correct -- that they are under-reported.)
The Catholic Way is not my Way. My view is that Catholics blithely ignore whatever it is they don't want to believe, and that for me is not authentic, and I want to be authentic. But some of the Catholics I know are some of the finest people on earth, and some of the Catholic writers and scholars that I have read are among the best in authentically addressing issues of faith and practice. The Catholic Church is evolving. Vatican Council 2 was a huge step in the right direction.
I've given up looking for a perfect church. I often hang out with "independent" little churches, but I can appreciate larger denominational churches, too. Ain't none of them perfect. That's part of why, I guess, Ephesians 4:1ff was written. If I have the forbearance and humility that Paul writes about there, I may possibly be a contributer, a builder (one who edifies) in whatever congregation I may be a part of.
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markomalley
**************ADVERTISEMENT*************
IF ANYBODY WISHES TO DEBATE A POINT OF
CATHOLIC DOCTRINE THAT THEY DON'T AGREE
WITH, I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ADDRESS
THOSE POINTS IN THE DOCTRINAL BASEMENT.
I DON'T VISIT THERE EVERY DAY, BUT AM THERE
ON A VERY REGULAR BASIS. THERE IS NO CHARGE
FOR THIS SERVICE.
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Thank you for your attention.
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brideofjc
Mark...
I have never asked you...are you a priest? Or just a well informed adherent?
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markomalley
I am a Lector and a catechist.
I like doing apologetics in my spare time (but don't worry, I'm not quitting my day job!)
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coolchef
as mark will tell you,many,many things have changed over the years and imo to the good
i can't remember who posted about church members going to midnite mass a little buzzed but how about ole barnyard vic teaching the word totally buzzed!!
and as i said the wine is good!
peace
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excathedra
that's the only way i still get through midnight mass
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