How do you think your kids were affected by your involvement with twi?

[happyheart]

I'm wondering what you all think about how your involvement in twi affected your kids. Are some of your kids still with twi? Is your relationship strained with them if they are? Were they mad at you about your involvement and have things healed between you? Or do they pretty much not care? If you were a kid raised in twi, are you angry with your parents for it or did you understand their intentions?

I hope it's not too personal a question to ask. I'm just wondering about the potential long term impact on the kids.

[Watered Garden]

Ruined my relationship with my adopted son, and probably any relationship he might have had with God. I diligently followed the teachings of the powers that be and disciplined him strictly. The leadership our last three years in treated him like dirt (he was 12) urged us to get rid of him, one way or another, called him possessed and gave us an ultimatum to either throw him out of the house or leave TWI. We left.

The church I go to now impressed me from the beginning with the tenderness and compassion with which they handle the children in their congregation of all ages. Had I heard one voice raised, seen one child thrashed, kicked, whipped, beaten or cursed, I would have never come back.

WG

[rascal]

You might check out the *child abuse in twi* thread. It was started by a kid who grew up in twi. There were a lot of contribution from now adult kids, and their parents.

[Ham]

Neither of my kids are involved with twi.. or an offshoot.

Maybe that's all I ought to say..

[Ron G.]

My oldest, the former mini WOW, is a devout atheist punk rocker today.

As far as I know, he despises the very mention of TWI, although he derived a great deal of enjoyment out of attending twig with a belly full of pinto beans and hard boiled eggs as a teenager.

[cman]

My oldest son was most involved in twig. Watching his father teach he picked up on teaching rather quickly and did a few while he was still quite young.

Unfortunately he got hung up in twi thought and rebellion.

Which he was delivered from about 3 years after we left.

We are still very close as well as our whole family.

twi teaches hatred within families.

They don't say it directly, usually, but it is practiced.

Nor do they understand what a family is.

I can say that twi's influence and hold on our family is over completely.

However some of our relatives frequent, or used to frequent an offshoot.

To which they tried to get him involved.

I closed that door and it will not open.

twi is over as far as their influence on our family.

And it will stay that way as long as I'm around.

I am thankful he learned some about singing and what god is not though.

And thankful we were delivered from it's enslaving fear.

[Bramble]

My kids were in gradeschool when we left, but for a couple years before leaving, even though we never spoke about it, hubby and I took them to fellowship as little as possible--week nights were easy because by the time we would return home it would be past their bedtimes. We also just quit using the spoon--no heart for it I guess. I think our instincts about caring for our children just kicked in at that time.

My oldest was an ultraperfectionist, to the point where if she got something wrong on a paper she would get a stomach ache. That smoothed out to some degree, but each one of my kids went through a rebellious testing type phaze in middle school where they got awful grades and a couple of detentions for a quarter--big deals for kids who got straight As and never pulled cards in gradeschool. I guess that was to see what we would do. .

We made them cut back on afterschool activities and made a big deal about any improvement, which seemed to be enough to reassure them we weren't going to turn into maniacs about grades. Soon enough they were all back on the honor rolls etc. Now all are engaged in school and school related activities like debate and band, which they enjoy. It is fun to see them trying out activities, finding their strengths aand what they enjoy.

I do have concerns about one child who seems to be easily lead by their peers more than our other two but kiddo seems to be picking up on those that are manipulative and hard to please...just hope it translates to the opposite sex.

Our kids know we were involved in a cult, that church leaders felt free to tell us how to live and that we choose to make our own decision in such matters. Since we are not church goers, my kids get invited to church youth groups all the time...there are a few, the high demand groups, that I've said no to, and explained why, because I don't want them to be pressured to join a church that will put church over family.

[cheranne]

it effected our entire family,,my children were not raised in twi,but i wanted them to know and believe in GOD

and we did the church thing when they were little and prayer was always important ,but i would never make them

feel outcast if they later wanted to be in a religon or not in anything.

i think if i had never been in twi,i would have just been a laid back catholic and woudn't have had so many freakin

questions .

The hand that rocks the cradle is extremely an influence on the child. We want the best for our children even when

we are not sure what s best for us.

We lost our first child and for the longest time i thought it was because we walked away from twi,lots of spiritual

warfare coming out of this cult,no exit counciling back then either just kinda fix yourself up the best you could and

move on but,this is something you just can't sweep under the carpet of your mind,not if you want true healing from

false teaching, the fact of the matter is God always knew my heart.

[Shifra]

I've written volumes on Greasespot about the damaging effects of TWI on my family. I'm not going to say much more about that. It's so sad. We have survived, but with great scars.

Both Watered Garden and Bramble were dear friends of mine in the Way, interestingly in two separate communities, as the Corps moved us around a lot (another damaging aspect of Way life). I can testify that both of these sets of parents were outstanding in their tenderness toward their children. I believe in the long run their kids will recognize this.

As I read the opening replies to this thread, I am wondering ... Were there any fully functional healthy families in the Way? I can't think of any. The wooden spoon and the wife-ly obedience laws seemed to cripple even the best of kinships.

[lindyhopper]

Of course it affects you. "How" will be about as unique of an answer as the person. Same as 6th grade gym class. Some people will have something happen in 6th grade gym that messes them up through high school. Another person will be over it by the next day. Another person will let it affect them the rest of their life and maybe is looking for you for what you did to them right now! :blink:

I think I came out of 20 or so years of wayfer childhood/young adulthood relatively unscathed (compared to what I have heard others indured or to what could have happened.) On the other hand there are lingering effects I notice every now and again.

It has directly affected my professional life. I left college after my second year because of the debt teachings. Went back years later after I left TWI. Didn't figure out what I wanted to do with my life professionally untill a few years after that. Can't complain though. I got a late start, but I figured out what makes me happy and what I want t do with my professional life in the end. All those experiences went into the process of making that decision as all the ones up to now will affect the next big one. I am in Grenada now with my family, as my wife goes to Med school here. Life is crazy. If you go with the flow it usually works out. If you go against the current, you fight the change in life's flow, or hold on to something (the past) it will tire you and eventually bring you down. (I'm not talking about conformity here, just life.) Who knows what the future holds for me at this point.

Everyone will react differently and everyone not only has the variables of TWI but every other family, interpersonal, and genetic variable or other variables of self that uniquely shape our reactions and actions.

I would say that depending on your kid's experiences and their age, it will impact them to a degree for a year or three, and then they will get over it and move on. Memories don't go away. Experiences don't change once they've happened. We are the artists, clumsy, foolish, shortsighted visionaries wielding, flinging, what we have at life. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but it all helps us with the next challenge that comes along.

I am not angery with my parents. They are still involved and are still good people. I wish they were not involved still and it does affect us to a degree, IMO, but not to the end that any of us are upset with another. I took a couple years to get to that point. They like many people here probably think that something, someone in TWI has affected me negatively because I no longer consider myself a Christian. I am now agnostic, but I am still the same person I was when you get to my heart.

So, yes I have moved on, it has had it's effects on me, and I care about somethings and don't care about others.

It is like what I told my mom the night we had a little sit down after I stopped "fellowshipping" with TWI. She was upset because she felt she had done here best to keep me and my brothers out of harms way and the confusion and hurt of life, by raising us in "the Word." There I was throwing it all away and walking out from under His protection of the household. Her worries- genuine, not divisive, unfounded but genuine. I told her, "you try, most people do that and yet sh!t still happens to everyone and what it comes down to is what do you do with it. How do you react. That is what's important."

[J0nny Ling0]

My children are pretty happy with the knowledge of God's Word that we have shared with them over the years. Neither of our two older kids are involved with any church or fellowship, but they do believe in God and our Lord Jesus, and are thankful to know things like; They can absolutely trust God to answer their prayers, to know that they are righteous through JC our Lord and that they "can do all things through Christ which strengthens them". Oh, there are lots an lots of things that they have incorporated into their lives which my wife and I have taught them, and things that they learned in "Chil Fel" (children's fellowship), and etc. They have lots of wonderful memories of those days.

And, now that they are older, and have asked that question; "How come we aren't part of The Way anymore?", I just told them flat out that The Way, like countless other well meaning organizations, became corrupt to the point of hurting people rather than helping them. The love of money, power, sex, greed, and all of that stuff that seems to be so common to Mankind became more important than God's Word, and so, it was time for us to go, but Craig kicked us out before we left. And they have been happy with that explanation. They are great kids and doing very well.

I have to say though, I am certainly thankful that our kids never experienced The Way after 1989, which seems to be a whole different story all together! Gawd!!All of that screaming, shouting and witch hunting and judgmental condemnation would have been very horrible for them to see. And the micro-management that I have read about by those who endured TWI II? My kids may well have witnessed their dear Daddy going to jail decking some punk FC for being rude to my wife, or something. But, since we could see that all of that was coming, we got ourselves kicked out and have been having fun trusting God as we have re-adjusted our lives to living "not within The Way". It's been a fine time, with all of life's usual frustrations and challenges, as well as victories and successes. Certainly there were unique "post Way" adjustments to make at the age of 33 y.o., but I just figured that things certainly could have been worse for my wife and two young kids. At least we had good health and enough youth left to get things rolling again in the realm of working and earning money and such. Life has been a fine time for we "Lingos" so far, and we are thankful for the good things we have learned, and for the great things God has done for us. Our Tribe did in fact increase with the birth of two more sons who are now 11 and 15 years old, and they are fine also, thanks be to God...

P.S.

Why is there a "heart" icon to the left of the thread title on the main "About The Way" page? Wassup wit dat? Jes curious....

Edited February 18, 2008 by Jonny Lingo

[socks]

Overall, not negatively at all. They were kidlets - I think our son was 9, daughter 7 when we left. They'd enjoyed the stuff we did at home, with Children's Fellowship. They started school at a local Baptist Elementary school and that was a great experience for them, the principal and teachers, everyone were great there.

Over those years we knew some great people in the Way. Our kids remember a lot of them, we've had some contact with some over the years since leaving. I can't think of anyone we weren't happy to have our kids around or exposed to. They were young all that time and we never encountered or instigated some of the things I've read about here, a few tighly wound minds here and there but nothing worth stewing over.

We'd moved from Florida back home to California that year, and took a long 11 days of travel across I-10, and that was a blast. My plan was simple, see what we wanted to do when we got out here.

As we got through the first year and got settled, my wife and I decided together to not join or start a local ex-Way fellowship. I was definitely not interested in doing that, and she was mildly interested in the possibility so I did make the decision for us to process cautiously. There was a lot going on that year and neither one of us wanted to get tangled up in the whole Wayfer affair as everything got sorted out. I'd only had a couple harsh encounters with people over various issues, but that was enough. I had what I considered a pretty good bead on what I felt was going to happen in the Way. It did, and so we ended up 5-6 years down the line confident we'd done the right thing. Nothing against anyone, it was just what we needed to do.

So our kids never really were exposed to any of the "stuff", other than what they heard us talking about and they didn't understand that anyway. I had never planned on bringing them up in a completely Way-centered lifestyle, so their attitude about their faith at that young age was based mostly on real life, having friends, going to school, doin' the stuff kids do. They'd gotten a good foundation from the start I feel. They were my responsibility so I tried to make sure we "kept it real".

Edited February 18, 2008 by socks

[Bramble]

You were a bright spot on a dark time, Shifra.

I worry less about my kids now than I did when they were younger. I see the type of friends they make, how they choose activities etc and am not so concerned. They are not so conditioned to obey obey, or perhaps it is that they evaluate what authority an individual has over their lives.

I think mostly I was afraid that they would be too easily lead by others, peers OR religious types, that they would be dependant...which seemed to be the goal of TWI child rearing. That someone witha strong personality would glom onto them and run them.

[happyheart]

Ruined my relationship with my adopted son, and probably any relationship he might have had with God. WG

Hi Watered Garden. I have found your previous posts very insightful. But do you mean that your relationship with him is ruined now? I thought from a previous post, all was forgiven between you. I hope that's the case. You seem like such a wonderful parent to me, and he a wonderful son.

I like that your son fought against them while you were in the family corps. I think he did you all a favor by acting out. It sounds like he could see through all the bs that was going on.

He is a treasure that you found. Those leaders in the family Corps were so inept to deal with a child that they tried to cover up their stupidity by telling you to get rid of him. What a bunch of cowards and idiots. I'm glad you adopted him and stuck by him.

Do you ever wish you could tell those morons off?

God bless you WG.

As I read the opening replies to this thread, I am wondering ... Were there any fully functional healthy families in the Way? I can't think of any.

I think the Qualtieri family had it all together. I still think of things I learned from them. But from a post from Peter's daughter-he was treated terribly on his death bed. He didn't deserve that.

[happyheart]

P.S.

Why is there a "heart" icon to the left of the thread title on the main "About The Way" page? Wassup wit dat? Jes curious....

I tend to click on the heart icon whenever I post. I like hearts. I may have inadvertantly put one in the wrong place.

Jonny, I think I may have met you. Were you the Rev. with a really funny sense of humour?

[happyheart]

twi teaches hatred within families.

They don't say it directly, usually, but it is practiced.

Nor do they understand what a family is.

Makes me wonder if LCM's kids mark and avoid him, if he is getting a taste of his own medicine. They were so harsh against families-as if twi were going to take care of us in our old age.

You might check out the *child abuse in twi* thread. It was started by a kid who grew up in twi. There were a lot of contribution from now adult kids, and their parents.

Thanks Rascal.

[waysider]

I believe there is an indirect aspect to this as well.

For example, I drifted away in 1991 when my son was born, so he was never exposed directly to TWI.

We have had various philosophical and religious discussions that were influenced by my experiences while I was involved with The Way.

I try to instill upon him that he must think freely and not blindly accept doctrine without investigating it for himself.

That advise, I believe, comes as a result of my involvement with TWI.

Long story made short: I don't see how our kids could NOT be affected, either directly or indirectly, by our involvement with The Way.

[Watered Garden]

Well, HappyHeart, yes and no. As Waysider mentioned, there are direct and indirect effects. The direct effects are mostly taken care of. Some of the indirect effects still surface from time to time. Since son was 8 when we got him, it's hard for me to determine what is TWI-influenced and what is a result of his 6 1/2 years in foster care, which were pretty awful. He still has major issues with trust and honesty that could have resulted from either situation, or both.

The important thing is that he knows I love him and I know he loves me. And, as Peter wrote, love covers a multitude of sins.

WG

[tonto]

This is something I wonder about quite often. I'll never know how our son would have turned out without TWI's influence on our lives...both good and bad. Our daughter was born post-twi (thank God almighty...there's more to that story, but another time...).

On the plus side, our son seems to have a "nose" for finding good-hearted friends. I find it funny that in his group of friends there are at least two who had charismatic religious backgrounds, but no longer attend their churches. He has visited many different churches but hasn't found a good fit...seems to have inherited a distrust of organized religion, and I don't necessarily believe that's a bad thing.

Most of the folks in our pre-corps twigs were good, decent people who were nothing but kind to our family. Even in the family corps, he had mostly good experiences...in part because he was only 4 to 6 years old at the time, and also thanks to Linda-something who was on staff in children's fellowship during our stay. She took a liking to our son and watched over him as much as she could.

What I wonder about most is his being raised so frugally. When we left twi, so soon after being in-resident corps, we had no money. No money, no degrees, had never held very good jobs (how could we when we had to take off work so much because of this class and that seminar and whatever event HQ dreamed up?).

Crap...when we moved back to Texas, that first year or two we qualified for him to get free lunches. Don't get me wrong, he was clean and dressed nice and had decent toys (I was a good garage sale shopper and his paternal grandparents helped out financially for awhile), but it was a struggle. I know lots of people have struggled much harder...but the simple fact is that had we not bought into the whole "Word Over the World-snow on the gaspumps-you're corps, dam nit" shineola, we could have provided him with more opportunity. By the time T-Bone and I were able to advance in our careers, he was pretty much grown.

OK, the thing is that he's not very ambitious, and that's fine if it's because that's just him. I can't help but wonder if somewhere in his mind he doesn't think he deserves it, because of the frugality of his early years. He's a college graduate and works, but just enough to get by and travel. That doesn't sound too bad, actually, because he's doing what he wants to do. I just wonder how much of it is because of our dumb-a$$ mistakes.

Hey, at least he's not wasting his time in a cult, so I know...I should quit my beetchin'.

Sorry for the long rambling post...slow morning at work.

[happyheart]

This is something I wonder about quite often. I'll never know how our son would have turned out without TWI's influence on our lives...both good and bad. Our daughter was born post-twi (thank God almighty...there's more to that story, but another time...).

On the plus side, our son seems to have a "nose" for finding good-hearted friends. I find it funny that in his group of friends there are at least two who had charismatic religious backgrounds, but no longer attend their churches. He has visited many different churches but hasn't found a good fit...seems to have inherited a distrust of organized religion, and I don't necessarily believe that's a bad thing.

Most of the folks in our pre-corps twigs were good, decent people who were nothing but kind to our family. Even in the family corps, he had mostly good experiences...in part because he was only 4 to 6 years old at the time, and also thanks to Linda-something who was on staff in children's fellowship during our stay. She took a liking to our son and watched over him as much as she could.

What I wonder about most is his being raised so frugally. When we left twi, so soon after being in-resident corps, we had no money. No money, no degrees, had never held very good jobs (how could we when we had to take off work so much because of this class and that seminar and whatever event HQ dreamed up?).

Crap...when we moved back to Texas, that first year or two we qualified for him to get free lunches. Don't get me wrong, he was clean and dressed nice and had decent toys (I was a good garage sale shopper and his paternal grandparents helped out financially for awhile), but it was a struggle. I know lots of people have struggled much harder...but the simple fact is that had we not bought into the whole "Word Over the World-snow on the gaspumps-you're corps, dam nit" shineola, we could have provided him with more opportunity. By the time T-Bone and I were able to advance in our careers, he was pretty much grown.

OK, the thing is that he's not very ambitious, and that's fine if it's because that's just him. I can't help but wonder if somewhere in his mind he doesn't think he deserves it, because of the frugality of his early years. He's a college graduate and works, but just enough to get by and travel. That doesn't sound too bad, actually, because he's doing what he wants to do. I just wonder how much of it is because of our dumb-a$$ mistakes.

Hey, at least he's not wasting his time in a cult, so I know...I should quit my beetchin'.

Sorry for the long rambling post...slow morning at work.

I thought this was a very good post. I have wondered the same things, because even though we are doing OK now, financially we are years and years behind our peers. I worry about the opportunities my kids may have missed also. Thanks for sharing, well put.

[happyheart]

Since son was 8 when we got him, it's hard for me to determine what is TWI-influenced and what is a result of his 6 1/2 years in foster care, which were pretty awful. He still has major issues with trust and honesty that could have resulted from either situation, or both.

The important thing is that he knows I love him and I know he loves me. And, as Peter wrote, love covers a multitude of sins.

WG

I can see where that would be difficult to determine at times. Or if some of it was just every day kid stuff that most people go through. Issue's can sure get clouded when inept busy bodies interfere with a family. But you're right, love covers all of that and the sin of leaders who abused the trust of faithful believers and their children.

Seems like your son knew the Nazi Way Corps were nuts. Probably smarter than most adults running the show at the time. Good for him.

[Watered Garden]

Exactly how he described FWC! "They were the Nazis and we were the Jews. Put your hand on a wall and someone was right there to smack you with a spoon." he told me once.

He fought back with the only tools he knew, stole food, peed in the sanitary napkin receptacle in the unisex bathroom, threw eggs across Adam's Alley, and got us kicked out of FWC. I think he did us a huge favor and I can never thank him enough. I despised the FWC. Talk about dehumanization! How dare you have the unmitigated audacity to have any original thought?

Example: Some 19th WC guy, a close friend M***ael F**t, actually REPROVED me for saying "Jumpin' Jehoshaphat," because there is no Biblical proof whatsoever that Jehoshaphat ever jumped! Talk about seeking an occasion! I can just imagine his train of thought: Lessee, I'm a great man of God, friend of an even greater man of God, and I need to start kicking the butts of these lowly 20th FWC folks. Now, what can I do to make this woman feel stupid, useless, and worthless? AHA!!! She said "Jumpin' Jehoshaphat!" Great! I can put on my portentous MOG voice and Nazi storm trooper boots and kick away! That'll put her in her place, with my boot firmly on her neck and her ugly little face ground into the dirt where it belongs!

I personally don't see any Biblical evidence that believers should treat each other that way! And people don't treat others like that because of their devotion to God and the Bible, but rather to their own self-aggrandizement.

WG

[Shifra]

Exactly. Watered Garden, you hit the nail on the head. When you've got so-called "leaders" who are looking for faults and weaknesses (in order to feel superior themselves) ...

And you've got CHILDREN !!! who by nature are going to have many many faults and weaknesses, just because they haven't lived long enough to polish up their lifestyles ...

Then what better target is there?

We all remember the absurd situations that we were confronted for - and we were adults!

The kids didn't stand a chance. I can honestly say I do not remember ANY edification for our children. The rebellious kids in Family Corps took the worst abuse of course. These were the ones who actually took a stand in their young years. Good for them. But bad for them too, because they got hurt the worst.

My third child was in high school when we were in Family Corps. Those are tough years for any teenager, a time to define one's self, a time to claim an identity. But his identity was shot down and belittled and stomped on, with accusations and lies that would have crushed any adult. He is 29 now, a good man, but still aches for self esteem or confidence. I hate the Way Ministry.

[Watered Garden]

Shifra,

I always really, really LIKED your kids!

WG

[tonto]

Wow...as much as twi could suck in the earlier years, it never ceases to amaze me the level of insanity it reached in the 90's.

WG and Shifra and all...I'm glad you made it out and sorry for all the crap you and especially your kids had to endure.