it's people like this that give true christians a bad name...
this guy's "teachings" are so over-simplistic (to the point of being infantile).. i wouldn't teach a 2nd grader this way... there is absolutely no substance to his "messages"... no wonder his doctrine is full of holes, and quite frankly, all over the place... it reminds me of an adhd puppy... just bumbling thru life, distracted by every wind of doctrine...
part of the problem may be this guy's obvious idolatry toward vpw...
another part may be that he is oblivious to the true nature of the emerging church movement (which he promotes)... yet he is totally unaware that the emerging church is laodicean in nature (and not even born again!)
this guy couldn't find his way out of a papersack...
it's people like this that give true christians a bad name...
so i am gonna judge (discern) the things that i see and hear in this life (whether folks like that or not)
so what if he was a wow in 1975? that doesn't tell me a thing about him!
but his website speaks volumes...
and from looking at it, i know the following things:
he idolizes vpw... (along with a couple of other guys that he calls "heroes")
he promotes the emerging church (and is clueless about its true nature)...
he is blown about with every wind of doctrine (prosperity gospel, social gospel, christian pop-psychology, diet fads (including the healing power of green smoothies), and a very self-centered, laodicean perspective in general)
he doesn't know how to teach... (possibly because he just rehashes what others say, or perhaps this stuff is all in his brain in a jumbled, disorganized fashion, or maybe because he really thinks in this baby-like (i would call it infantile) manner... and quite possibly all three)
oh, and i could add delusional... because he claims to have captured some secret biblical evidence on his dvd's that most people have never heard of... [if you believe that, i've got a bridge....]
whitedove, you may think that he is a "nice" guy; i think he is a lost soul...
OK --- so I was a WOW in 1978, and I try to be a nice guy.
Perhaps my opinion counts as well as his (given the qualifications)??
I clicked the link to the site and after reading a bit immediately thought --- >>>
"I just signed the green card AGAIN, and am hearing all the same old stuff all over."
I think I just suffered a *flashback*, and no --- I never did do drugs.
From my (short, cursory) look at his site I saw nothing but praise for docvic, and NO mention of any of the (COUGH!) discrepancies between docvic and the *Word* that he taught so *efficaciously*, as it hasn't been heard since the 1st Century. It's pretty da** obvious that this Rick guy is promoting all things docvic and twi. And ignoring all the CRAP. Meebe he *burned all that CRAP* on Uncle Harry day, eh??
I don't care if this bozo jumped from an airplane with no parachute, and landed safely on his feet.
Misguided is the kindest thing I can call him. He hasn't a clue, or if he does he's ignoring it.
Good Lord --- when will it ever end????
Just because you know him, and he was a WOW, and is a *nice guy*
in NO way validates his *teaching* on the website.
I've met more jerks online than I have in real life.
I scrolled down to the bottom of the Home page (from the link Seth provided).
As usual -- It's about money. The Nut doesn't fall far from the Tree.
Do you have a hunger for God's word, as Wierwille, E. W. Bullinger, E. W. Kenyon, and others did?
Then you will really enjoy seeing God's Word come alive on your television screen. We have begun filming our revolutionary new DVD series, Super Heart Living. And you can now purchase the first exciting episode, The Self-Esteem of Sonship, which is already being marketed worldwide.
After listening to RD's podcast, seeing the comment about being "out of fellowship" in another thread and now this...I may not sleep for a week.
It's like deja vu all over again (as ol' Yogi Berra used to say).
I think there's probably at least a hundred little websites like this one run by old denial ridden exway folks. I seem to run across one every time I try to google somebody I once knew. I'm not sure it'll ever end. I was in the chatroom a while back and someone mentioned the number of myspace users who revere the memory of the good doctor...mostly kids and twentysomethings. I went and looked and, sure enough, there they were.
It's truly scarey.
I used to say the main thing I learned in TWI was to never trust a preacher with a boner. Now I have to add to that, never underestimate one, either.
it's people like this that give true christians a bad name...
this guy's "teachings" are so over-simplistic (to the point of being infantile).. i wouldn't teach a 2nd grader this way... there is absolutely no substance to his "messages"... no wonder his doctrine is full of holes, and quite frankly, all over the place... it reminds me of an adhd puppy... just bumbling thru life, distracted by every wind of doctrine...
part of the problem may be this guy's obvious idolatry toward vpw...
another part may be that he is oblivious to the true nature of the emerging church movement (which he promotes)... yet he is totally unaware that the emerging church is laodicean in nature (and not even born again!)
this guy couldn't find his way out of a papersack...
it's people like this that give true christians a bad name...
and make me want to gag!
The bible calls it the Laodicean church, but the modern or post modern and who knows now what it is being called, would aptly label it as the SECULARIZED CHURCH.
Okay, I went out to the site, I jumped back at first glance of the pic....that was a real turn off for me! Ron, as far as boners...Here FIDO....C'mon....FIDO...gotz a treat for U!
OK --- so I was a WOW in 1978, and I try to be a nice guy.
Perhaps my opinion counts as well as his (given the qualifications)??
I clicked the link to the site and after reading a bit immediately thought --- >>>
"I just signed the green card AGAIN, and am hearing all the same old stuff all over."
I think I just suffered a *flashback*, and no --- I never did do drugs.
From my (short, cursory) look at his site I saw nothing but praise for docvic, and NO mention of any of the (COUGH!) discrepancies between docvic and the *Word* that he taught so *efficaciously*, as it hasn't been heard since the 1st Century. It's pretty da** obvious that this Rick guy is promoting all things docvic and twi. And ignoring all the CRAP. Meebe he *burned all that CRAP* on Uncle Harry day, eh??
I don't care if this bozo jumped from an airplane with no parachute, and landed safely on his feet.
Misguided is the kindest thing I can call him. He hasn't a clue, or if he does he's ignoring it.
Good Lord --- when will it ever end????
Just because you know him, and he was a WOW, and is a *nice guy*
in NO way validates his *teaching* on the website.
I've met more jerks online than I have in real life.
And I've met quite a few in real life.
David
I never said that being a WOW or a nice guy counted toward anything, everyone is entitled to an opinion. "I knew him as a WOW "was context for how I met him nothing more. never did I say those were qualifications for anything. Judging the website? Really? As we see it soon crosses into judging who he is and truthfully most don't really know. Does not agreeing with someone make him a bozo? a Jerk? So he likes VP ? maybe his life was greatly impacted in a positive way by his experience. So what? no one has to buy what he is selling. Is there some law that says he has to address what you consider discrepancies? It's not my cup of tea either but that hardly makes him a bozo now does it?
His VPW page in the Christian heroes section is so laden with inaccuracies and falsehoods, it's impossible to view this as anything other than misguided adoration for Wierwille.
Of course, one could buy the PFAL book and collaterals he is hawking at the bottom of the page and prove his claims for themself.
R1ck and M@^&h@ live about 6 miles from me in nearby Newton and has informal ties to M!%* and J@^* T0mB*rl!n here in Hickory(they haven't been to fellowship/church when I have attended) and M&J have moved beyond TWI and VPW with their independent house church. At least they will admit using other authors in spoken teachings.
I ran across this website some time ago. I started a thread called Wierwille Worshippers. I emailed them and got pat responses from them about how much they exalt Wierwille.
Here's what I emailed them:
I think your ministry would have so much more meaning if you didn't put Victor Paul Wierwille on such a pedestal.
I spent 20 years in The Way International. I don't regret it because I believe it was part of my spiritual journey, and I wouldn't be who I am today because of my experiences. However, I would NEVER encourage anyone to take Power for Abundant Living. There are so many churches out there who teach the love of Christ. Wierwille didn't focus on that. He wanted people to focus on how genius he was. He was an arrogant man who was in ministering for his own deceitful practices. He hurt a lot of women through the years.
God bless you,
Teresa
Here's their response to me:
Teresa,
Thanks for your input.
For clarification purposes, we do not put Wierwille on a pedestal at all. We are keenly aware of his shortcomings. We simply believe that he did make a contribution to the body of Christ (see article inset below) and believe in giving credit where credit is due.
Both Rick and I left The Way ministry after only a few short years because of the problems we saw. (Rick and I were involved with The Way from '74-80. At that time I was married to my late husband. You can read my story here: http://www.superheartliving.com/Marthas.html).
We take to heart Paul's admonition in Phil. 3:13,14 "...one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus." We have gone on to walk with God and serve him as he has called us to do.
Guess we should throw out all Bible references to David and Paul if we're to use the same standard some people have towards V.P. Wierwille. If you read the article carefully, you'll see that we mention that he was not perfect, as are none of us.
We have articles on other Christian leaders. And we're not finished adding them. We had to start somewhere. And we chose to start with our Way influence. Even you admit it had a big influence on your spiritual journey.
Here's the inset below (from our Wierwille page) what we believe to be the key of why we included Wierwille.
Wierwille was all too human, just like the rest of us. The hero of the Way Ministry was not him, but God.
But for thirty years Wierwille researched God's Word and then with enthusiasm and conviction shared it with hungry people everywhere.
And his stand on God's Word is still touching thousands of lives all over the world. He shows us how to allow God's Word to interpret itself, in the context and the original wording of the text. He will show you how to identify the Bible's figures of speech and recognize the biblical mannerisms and customs. You will really get excited about God's Word!
Most of all, Wierwille challenges you to read and study God's Word for yourself. To look beyond your denominational upbringings and ask yourself...
"What does God's Word actually say about this?"
Today all around the world there are Christians obeying Jesus Christ's command: to live "by every Word that comes out of the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4).
I am very sorry that some women were hurt by V. P. Wierwille. I have heard such rumors but have yet to meet any of them. I hope these women have received healing and have moved on with their lives.
If RJ believes in his teaching fine. Actually I have all Bullinger's, Kenyon's, Lamsa's, Erricoo's, Cliffe's, Torrey's, Albert Benjamin Simpson's, Carnegie's, Peale's, Eli Stanley Jones', Schuller's, Smith Wigglesworth's, Lester Sumrall's, etc. works(more than most TWI and offshoots) including Joyce Myers, Joel Osteen, Dennis Benett, Sam Storms, David Ireland, Watchman Nee, 3books from Leonrd's widow and associates, Nicky Gumbel, Neil Anderson, Rick Warren/Thomas Holiday, and so forth that far exceeds any splinter group. However, this is for my own personal study because I have no desire to start my own ministry sharing any of this. This includes about a dozen books on mideastern culture. But I have no hidden agenda for public teaching on any of this. No anger, just sad sympathy, wishing them good "luck" and hope they are happy. I certainly do not have the finale answer to life's questions, leaving that to Jesus Christ and our God, Yahweh Eloiheim Adonai.
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jen-o
it's people like this that give true christians a bad name...
this guy's "teachings" are so over-simplistic (to the point of being infantile).. i wouldn't teach a 2nd grader this way... there is absolutely no substance to his "messages"... no wonder his doctrine is full of holes, and quite frankly, all over the place... it reminds me of an adhd puppy... just bumbling thru life, distracted by every wind of doctrine...
part of the problem may be this guy's obvious idolatry toward vpw...
another part may be that he is oblivious to the true nature of the emerging church movement (which he promotes)... yet he is totally unaware that the emerging church is laodicean in nature (and not even born again!)
this guy couldn't find his way out of a papersack...
it's people like this that give true christians a bad name...
and make me want to gag!
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WhiteDove
I know Rick he was a WOW in KS in 1975. He is a nice guy. I doubt one could make an accurate judgment of who he is from a website.
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waysider
I wouldn't begin to judge him.
I would,however, judge his web site.
This isn't the first time I've read through it.
It's a vehicle designed to worship an idol named V.P. Wierwille.
Even the biographical data is inaccurate and biased.
People need to accept the fact that the man was a huckster and a fraud.
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jen-o
whitedove,
i am not one to stick my head in the sand...
so i am gonna judge (discern) the things that i see and hear in this life (whether folks like that or not)
so what if he was a wow in 1975? that doesn't tell me a thing about him!
but his website speaks volumes...
and from looking at it, i know the following things:
he idolizes vpw... (along with a couple of other guys that he calls "heroes")
he promotes the emerging church (and is clueless about its true nature)...
he is blown about with every wind of doctrine (prosperity gospel, social gospel, christian pop-psychology, diet fads (including the healing power of green smoothies), and a very self-centered, laodicean perspective in general)
he doesn't know how to teach... (possibly because he just rehashes what others say, or perhaps this stuff is all in his brain in a jumbled, disorganized fashion, or maybe because he really thinks in this baby-like (i would call it infantile) manner... and quite possibly all three)
oh, and i could add delusional... because he claims to have captured some secret biblical evidence on his dvd's that most people have never heard of... [if you believe that, i've got a bridge....]
whitedove, you may think that he is a "nice" guy; i think he is a lost soul...
peace,
jen-o
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dmiller
OK --- so I was a WOW in 1978, and I try to be a nice guy.
Perhaps my opinion counts as well as his (given the qualifications)??
I clicked the link to the site and after reading a bit immediately thought --- >>>
"I just signed the green card AGAIN, and am hearing all the same old stuff all over."
I think I just suffered a *flashback*, and no --- I never did do drugs.
From my (short, cursory) look at his site I saw nothing but praise for docvic, and NO mention of any of the (COUGH!) discrepancies between docvic and the *Word* that he taught so *efficaciously*, as it hasn't been heard since the 1st Century. It's pretty da** obvious that this Rick guy is promoting all things docvic and twi. And ignoring all the CRAP. Meebe he *burned all that CRAP* on Uncle Harry day, eh??
I don't care if this bozo jumped from an airplane with no parachute, and landed safely on his feet.
Misguided is the kindest thing I can call him. He hasn't a clue, or if he does he's ignoring it.
Good Lord --- when will it ever end????
Just because you know him, and he was a WOW, and is a *nice guy*
in NO way validates his *teaching* on the website.
I've met more jerks online than I have in real life.
And I've met quite a few in real life.
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jen-o
heheheheh...
i was a wow in 1981, and i'm nice (well, sometimes) LOLOL...
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dmiller
Ha!! Good girls go to heaven.
Bad girls go everywhere!
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polar bear
That's gotta be one of the creepiest things I ever did see.
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Brushstroke
That's what I said when I Googled 'Victor Paul Wierwille' and went to the site one time. :blink:
And look at the picture of all the people on the top of the page. Is it just me or is the guy wearing the turban a little out of place? lol
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dmiller
I scrolled down to the bottom of the Home page (from the link Seth provided).
As usual -- It's about money. The Nut doesn't fall far from the Tree.
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Ron G.
After listening to RD's podcast, seeing the comment about being "out of fellowship" in another thread and now this...I may not sleep for a week.
It's like deja vu all over again (as ol' Yogi Berra used to say).
I think there's probably at least a hundred little websites like this one run by old denial ridden exway folks. I seem to run across one every time I try to google somebody I once knew. I'm not sure it'll ever end. I was in the chatroom a while back and someone mentioned the number of myspace users who revere the memory of the good doctor...mostly kids and twentysomethings. I went and looked and, sure enough, there they were.
It's truly scarey.
I used to say the main thing I learned in TWI was to never trust a preacher with a boner. Now I have to add to that, never underestimate one, either.
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mstar1
damn I had to clean off my screen after spewing my coffee
after reading :
Ron why dont you start your own website
http://www.nevertrustapreacherwithaboner.com ?
Its perfect
google tag it to Wierwille
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Steveo
I am thinking that this person is consciuosly ignoring all thats happenned in the Way.
I clicked on the link that said "contact us" and wrote him a long message with a link http://www.swiftlynx.com/beyondTheWayInternational/
I told him I was curious about his response and if he does Ill post it here...
Im just hoping that hes not an adulterer too after the type that VPW was!
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brideofjc
The bible calls it the Laodicean church, but the modern or post modern and who knows now what it is being called, would aptly label it as the SECULARIZED CHURCH.
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brideofjc
Okay, I went out to the site, I jumped back at first glance of the pic....that was a real turn off for me! Ron, as far as boners...Here FIDO....C'mon....FIDO...gotz a treat for U!
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Belle
Well, Dove thinks vee pee was a nice guy, too.
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WhiteDove
David
I never said that being a WOW or a nice guy counted toward anything, everyone is entitled to an opinion. "I knew him as a WOW "was context for how I met him nothing more. never did I say those were qualifications for anything. Judging the website? Really? As we see it soon crosses into judging who he is and truthfully most don't really know. Does not agreeing with someone make him a bozo? a Jerk? So he likes VP ? maybe his life was greatly impacted in a positive way by his experience. So what? no one has to buy what he is selling. Is there some law that says he has to address what you consider discrepancies? It's not my cup of tea either but that hardly makes him a bozo now does it?
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WhiteDove
I'll do a search for where I said that........
Unfortunately your search didn't return any results.
Try broadening the search parameters by searching by different keywords or altering the format of your search.
Remember to use the wildcard '*' to increase the number of matches. Apple* will match 'apple' and 'apples'.
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waysider
His VPW page in the Christian heroes section is so laden with inaccuracies and falsehoods, it's impossible to view this as anything other than misguided adoration for Wierwille.
Of course, one could buy the PFAL book and collaterals he is hawking at the bottom of the page and prove his claims for themself.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
R1ck and M@^&h@ live about 6 miles from me in nearby Newton and has informal ties to M!%* and J@^* T0mB*rl!n here in Hickory(they haven't been to fellowship/church when I have attended) and M&J have moved beyond TWI and VPW with their independent house church. At least they will admit using other authors in spoken teachings.
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Nottawayfer
I ran across this website some time ago. I started a thread called Wierwille Worshippers. I emailed them and got pat responses from them about how much they exalt Wierwille.
Here's what I emailed them:
I think your ministry would have so much more meaning if you didn't put Victor Paul Wierwille on such a pedestal.
I spent 20 years in The Way International. I don't regret it because I believe it was part of my spiritual journey, and I wouldn't be who I am today because of my experiences. However, I would NEVER encourage anyone to take Power for Abundant Living. There are so many churches out there who teach the love of Christ. Wierwille didn't focus on that. He wanted people to focus on how genius he was. He was an arrogant man who was in ministering for his own deceitful practices. He hurt a lot of women through the years.
God bless you,
Teresa
Here's their response to me:
Teresa,
Thanks for your input.
For clarification purposes, we do not put Wierwille on a pedestal at all. We are keenly aware of his shortcomings. We simply believe that he did make a contribution to the body of Christ (see article inset below) and believe in giving credit where credit is due.
Both Rick and I left The Way ministry after only a few short years because of the problems we saw. (Rick and I were involved with The Way from '74-80. At that time I was married to my late husband. You can read my story here: http://www.superheartliving.com/Marthas.html).
We take to heart Paul's admonition in Phil. 3:13,14 "...one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus." We have gone on to walk with God and serve him as he has called us to do.
Guess we should throw out all Bible references to David and Paul if we're to use the same standard some people have towards V.P. Wierwille. If you read the article carefully, you'll see that we mention that he was not perfect, as are none of us.
We have articles on other Christian leaders. And we're not finished adding them. We had to start somewhere. And we chose to start with our Way influence. Even you admit it had a big influence on your spiritual journey.
Here's the inset below (from our Wierwille page) what we believe to be the key of why we included Wierwille.
Wierwille was all too human, just like the rest of us. The hero of the Way Ministry was not him, but God.
But for thirty years Wierwille researched God's Word and then with enthusiasm and conviction shared it with hungry people everywhere.
And his stand on God's Word is still touching thousands of lives all over the world. He shows us how to allow God's Word to interpret itself, in the context and the original wording of the text. He will show you how to identify the Bible's figures of speech and recognize the biblical mannerisms and customs. You will really get excited about God's Word!
Most of all, Wierwille challenges you to read and study God's Word for yourself. To look beyond your denominational upbringings and ask yourself...
"What does God's Word actually say about this?"
Today all around the world there are Christians obeying Jesus Christ's command: to live "by every Word that comes out of the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4).
If you have not read our "about us" page and our individual pages, you may want to in order to get a feel for where our hearts are: http://www.superheartliving.com/About_Us.html; http://www.superheartliving.com/Ricks.html; and my page was listed above.
I am very sorry that some women were hurt by V. P. Wierwille. I have heard such rumors but have yet to meet any of them. I hope these women have received healing and have moved on with their lives.
Thanks again for writing us, Teresa.
God bless you,
Martha
www.superheartliving.com
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waysider
Same old same old.
"Nah. We don't put him on a pedestal, we we just deny the inaccuracies we present as evidence of what a swell guy he was."
Wierwille's so-called contributions that they cite are grossly misrepresented to the point of being flat out false.
Maybe they are nice people, I don't know.
The two old ladies in Arsenic And Old Lace were nice, too.
That's how they managed to keep the window seat occupied.
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Dot Matrix
Same sheet
Different day
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
If RJ believes in his teaching fine. Actually I have all Bullinger's, Kenyon's, Lamsa's, Erricoo's, Cliffe's, Torrey's, Albert Benjamin Simpson's, Carnegie's, Peale's, Eli Stanley Jones', Schuller's, Smith Wigglesworth's, Lester Sumrall's, etc. works(more than most TWI and offshoots) including Joyce Myers, Joel Osteen, Dennis Benett, Sam Storms, David Ireland, Watchman Nee, 3books from Leonrd's widow and associates, Nicky Gumbel, Neil Anderson, Rick Warren/Thomas Holiday, and so forth that far exceeds any splinter group. However, this is for my own personal study because I have no desire to start my own ministry sharing any of this. This includes about a dozen books on mideastern culture. But I have no hidden agenda for public teaching on any of this. No anger, just sad sympathy, wishing them good "luck" and hope they are happy. I certainly do not have the finale answer to life's questions, leaving that to Jesus Christ and our God, Yahweh Eloiheim Adonai.
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