Ok...factor in the drugging that went on...you wake up in the middle of the night in bed with the mog...the next day damage control moves into congratulate you for your spiritual maturity, for having a special ministry....
How about the fact that these predators had birth to corpes papers...they knew who had been sexually abused, who had been raped who had been neglected...who had no clear example or boundaries....they knew which buttons to push.
Their indoctrination was finely tuned to appeal ...to offer that which was the most ardently desired by the targeted victim....peace...healing...acceptance...value....
They were chosen, they were groomed, and they were closely monitored afterwards.
Sometimes they messed up...miscalculated like with the person who related this story, and Dot, and a few others. People who stood up and said NO, and that they were wrong....
My point is that they were very very good at what they did. Many times, one would feel like they had no way out....
Whether it was concerning sexual servitude, physical abuse, leaders abusing ones children, forced abortions, families divided ... one felt powerless to resist.
It was all viewed as the obedience required by God.
Here is a question I have always had - if homosexuality was so wrong (it was Eve's original sin to suggest a threesome with the Devil and Adam, like it was taught/heavily implied in the foundational class) then WHY was a threesome OK for the mog??
I know, stupid question, right? But how was this sort of thing presented in a godly light - as if committing adultery wasn't enough.
I can`t answer because it all seems repugnant to me. I can only surmise that as with anything in twi...if the moggy liked it...it was ok.
All things lawfull to them which are in christ....blah blah...all parts of the body equal...not sin if both parties can handle it...
For some reason women together, (and I have noticed it with supporters of vp as well) were not as offensive as men.
I have seen the same guys who were not particularly bothered by women being required to submit sexually or getting raped...get highly indignant when asked what if the moggy had liked young teen aged boys and THEY had been bent over a chair and told that God required it.
That is a whole nother kettle of fish in their mind.
From what I was told when in, VP had no problem with women with women - if they could handle it of course. We also know the male's number 1 fantasy is girl-on-girl action. That's why 3some was no big deal. Plus, its not really talked about in the Bible. So, VP didn't really much care. Although, he would publically say he didn't like it, but he sure kept some very obvious ones and their girls around with no problem. There were several, what I considered female couples, but, in TWI, as long as you were discreet and no one caught you, thus, they couldn't "prove" anything, you could pretty much do anything you wanted.
Now, VP hated male homosexuals, NOT because of the act itself, but because it put one man of the couple in a "submissive" position. VP believed no man should ever be put in a "submissive" position like that - it feminized him. I have a feeling, for a male, as long as he was "dominant," VP didn't care what one did.
With VP, it was about power. His abuse of women was about domination and power, and her humiliation. He had no love for the particular woman per se. When he got tired of her, he just passed her on.
ok, then were the rumors of orgies true? If there was male on male interaction durring those was it accepted? It seems twi accepted gays to a certain extent before martindale got a bee under his bonnet and crucified them at some point in the '80's or '90's.
Some women, such as my DIL were just taught slowly and patiently. A little at a time. But you know the general "story"....all the women in the kingdom belong to the king.....the king has certain basic needs.....yadda yadda. That's how she was suckered in. "Of course you want to bless the MOG" don't you"
Then, after the first or second time....loy got word to her (my DIL) that she was particularly adept at this calling. Pretty soon, she had a ministry don'tcha know. At that point nobody needs any more convincing.
From what I was told when in, VP had no problem with women with women - if they could handle it of course. We also know the male's number 1 fantasy is girl-on-girl action.
Well, it was definitely a big one for vpw, we know that. He described a video of two women-
and a DOG- to students in the CFS class, and those he didn't describe it to, he SHOWED THE
VIDEO. I don't buy this "he had to show them a video of two women having sex with a dog
so they knew what was out there" excuse. Frankly, he said more than I needed to know just
when he DESCRIBED it. I know what women look like. I know what a dog looks like. I know
what sex looks like. Just tell me the components, I know enough about what's on the video,
thank you. And he was AMUSED describing it. My brain was screaming "WHY ARE YOU
TELLING ME THIS?" at the time. We had different attitudes towards this subject, it appears.
I don't know if vpw bought videos when he visited San Francisco, during his
"House of Acts"/Haight-Ashbury tour. J1m D**p said vpw visited "adult" video stores there
at the time. That's PROBABLY when he got the video I just mentioned, but I'm speculating.
That's why 3some was no big deal. Plus, its not really talked about in the Bible. So, VP didn't really much care. Although, he would publically say he didn't like it, but he sure kept some very obvious ones and their girls around with no problem. There were several, what I considered female couples, but, in TWI, as long as you were discreet and no one caught you, thus, they couldn't "prove" anything, you could pretty much do anything you wanted.
Now, VP hated male homosexuals, NOT because of the act itself, but because it put one man of the couple in a "submissive" position. VP believed no man should ever be put in a "submissive" position like that - it feminized him. I have a feeling, for a male, as long as he was "dominant," VP didn't care what one did.
With VP, it was about power. His abuse of women was about domination and power, and her humiliation. He had no love for the particular woman per se. When he got tired of her, he just passed her on.
Now that my head isn't screaming about vpw describing a video about 2 women and a dog,
I can actually ask myself what should have been some obvious questions.
Why was there no corresponding story about a video of two MEN and a dog?
Obviously, one fit what he wanted to say, but the other one didn't.
And either ONE is condemned by Scripture, or NEITHER is, logically.
But, yes, it was NOT about God or Scripture-
unless that "god" was "vpw's lusts" or that "scripture" was "vpw gets to do whatever he wants".
It indeed WAS about power, and the women were DISPOSABLE to him.
ok, then were the rumors of orgies true? If there was male on male interaction durring those was it accepted? It seems twi accepted gays to a certain extent before martindale got a bee under his bonnet and crucified them at some point in the '80's or '90's.
I know that-as early as the end of the 1960s, when he met D**p and H33fn3r, vpw had
rationalized that orgies were accepted by God, because D**p reported that vpw had offered
his rationalization for them to D**p, who wasn't buying it.
If there were orgies, I would have no idea-I wasn't where or when I could have found
out about it. All I know is that vpw was cool with them-according to vpw, and according to
vpw, God didn't think they were "BEST", but made them "AVAILABLE."
I don't know if vpw bought videos when he visited San Francisco, during his
"House of Acts"/Haight-Ashbury tour. J1m D**p said vpw visited "adult" video stores there
at the time.
WW
Video cassettes first became available in the early 1970's.
Prior to that, such material would have been on film.
They were known as "smokers".
Prior to the introduction of the video tape player, PLAF (The Wonder Class) was presented on reel-to-reel audio tape and on film.
It was cumbersome and frustrating trying to get some of that old equipment to function properly.
HQ was reluctant to foot any of the cost of maintaining equipment in the field.
Frequently, we had to buy our own bulbs and splicing supplies.
I even based my car buying decisions on whether or not the trunk could fit all the gear.
Then, in the early '70s, the Beta machine was introduced. They had "playback only" capabilities.
Wierwille jumped on the bandwagon. He put PLAF on Beta tapes and sent Beta machines to larger areas.
When Beta format was being quietly pushed aside in preparation for the introduction of VHS, Wierwille offered a special one time "deal" to select individuals in the field. If you went through him directly, you could buy your very own Beta machine for the incredibly low price of-------$800!!
Well, I guess that went off topic but if he bought anything when he was in San Francisco, it would have had to have been in the form of a "smoker". Of course, he could have replaced it with a cassette once they became available.
Just bumping this old thread. Mommas, make sure your daughters are warned as per Rascal's opening remarks. Not just in the church/ religious context - males anywhere.
I think young women are a bit more savvy nowadays - but predators still have their same seductive methods.
If you ever get a hold of this person tell her she was better off not to sell out to that jerk.
Tell her what great integrity she had. I have great respect for someone like this.
Bear, so do I. So many women came to TWI, after they had abused, and neglected in their childhoods. And so what happens they were abused, and sometimes neglected as Adults. Makes me want to upchuck
From what I was told when in, VP had no problem with women with women - if they could handle it of course. We also know the male's number 1 fantasy is girl-on-girl action. That's why 3some was no big deal. Plus, its not really talked about in the Bible. So, VP didn't really much care. Although, he would publically say he didn't like it, but he sure kept some very obvious ones and their girls around with no problem. There were several, what I considered female couples, but, in TWI, as long as you were discreet and no one caught you, thus, they couldn't "prove" anything, you could pretty much do anything you wanted.
Now, VP hated male homosexuals, NOT because of the act itself, but because it put one man of the couple in a "submissive" position. VP believed no man should ever be put in a "submissive" position like that - it feminized him. I have a feeling, for a male, as long as he was "dominant," VP didn't care what one did.
With VP, it was about power. His abuse of women was about domination and power, and her humiliation. He had no love for the particular woman per se. When he got tired of her, he just passed her on.
Sun, I wonder how his wife coped with his evil ways. I thought she was a sweet woman, and a good teacher. I can't imagine being married to a man like VPW-ever!
Some women, such as my DIL were just taught slowly and patiently. A little at a time. But you know the general "story"....all the women in the kingdom belong to the king.....the king has certain basic needs.....yadda yadda. That's how she was suckered in. "Of course you want to bless the MOG" don't you"
Then, after the first or second time....loy got word to her (my DIL) that she was particularly adept at this calling. Pretty soon, she had a ministry don'tcha know. At that point nobody needs any more convincing.
That poor woman!! I hope she has recovered from all she endured while in TWI.
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rascal
Ok...factor in the drugging that went on...you wake up in the middle of the night in bed with the mog...the next day damage control moves into congratulate you for your spiritual maturity, for having a special ministry....
How about the fact that these predators had birth to corpes papers...they knew who had been sexually abused, who had been raped who had been neglected...who had no clear example or boundaries....they knew which buttons to push.
Their indoctrination was finely tuned to appeal ...to offer that which was the most ardently desired by the targeted victim....peace...healing...acceptance...value....
They were chosen, they were groomed, and they were closely monitored afterwards.
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rascal
Sometimes they messed up...miscalculated like with the person who related this story, and Dot, and a few others. People who stood up and said NO, and that they were wrong....
My point is that they were very very good at what they did. Many times, one would feel like they had no way out....
Whether it was concerning sexual servitude, physical abuse, leaders abusing ones children, forced abortions, families divided ... one felt powerless to resist.
It was all viewed as the obedience required by God.
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JavaJane
Here is a question I have always had - if homosexuality was so wrong (it was Eve's original sin to suggest a threesome with the Devil and Adam, like it was taught/heavily implied in the foundational class) then WHY was a threesome OK for the mog??
I know, stupid question, right? But how was this sort of thing presented in a godly light - as if committing adultery wasn't enough.
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rascal
Not stupid...no
I can`t answer because it all seems repugnant to me. I can only surmise that as with anything in twi...if the moggy liked it...it was ok.
All things lawfull to them which are in christ....blah blah...all parts of the body equal...not sin if both parties can handle it...
For some reason women together, (and I have noticed it with supporters of vp as well) were not as offensive as men.
I have seen the same guys who were not particularly bothered by women being required to submit sexually or getting raped...get highly indignant when asked what if the moggy had liked young teen aged boys and THEY had been bent over a chair and told that God required it.
That is a whole nother kettle of fish in their mind.
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JeffSjo
Well said Rascal.
It is still always a pleasure.
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polar bear
If you ever get a hold of this person tell her she was better off not to sell out to that jerk.
Tell her what great integrity she had. I have great respect for someone like this.
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Sunesis
From what I was told when in, VP had no problem with women with women - if they could handle it of course. We also know the male's number 1 fantasy is girl-on-girl action. That's why 3some was no big deal. Plus, its not really talked about in the Bible. So, VP didn't really much care. Although, he would publically say he didn't like it, but he sure kept some very obvious ones and their girls around with no problem. There were several, what I considered female couples, but, in TWI, as long as you were discreet and no one caught you, thus, they couldn't "prove" anything, you could pretty much do anything you wanted.
Now, VP hated male homosexuals, NOT because of the act itself, but because it put one man of the couple in a "submissive" position. VP believed no man should ever be put in a "submissive" position like that - it feminized him. I have a feeling, for a male, as long as he was "dominant," VP didn't care what one did.
With VP, it was about power. His abuse of women was about domination and power, and her humiliation. He had no love for the particular woman per se. When he got tired of her, he just passed her on.
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now I see
ok, then were the rumors of orgies true? If there was male on male interaction durring those was it accepted? It seems twi accepted gays to a certain extent before martindale got a bee under his bonnet and crucified them at some point in the '80's or '90's.
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krys
Some women, such as my DIL were just taught slowly and patiently. A little at a time. But you know the general "story"....all the women in the kingdom belong to the king.....the king has certain basic needs.....yadda yadda. That's how she was suckered in. "Of course you want to bless the MOG" don't you"
Then, after the first or second time....loy got word to her (my DIL) that she was particularly adept at this calling. Pretty soon, she had a ministry don'tcha know. At that point nobody needs any more convincing.
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WordWolf
Well, it was definitely a big one for vpw, we know that. He described a video of two women-
and a DOG- to students in the CFS class, and those he didn't describe it to, he SHOWED THE
VIDEO. I don't buy this "he had to show them a video of two women having sex with a dog
so they knew what was out there" excuse. Frankly, he said more than I needed to know just
when he DESCRIBED it. I know what women look like. I know what a dog looks like. I know
what sex looks like. Just tell me the components, I know enough about what's on the video,
thank you. And he was AMUSED describing it. My brain was screaming "WHY ARE YOU
TELLING ME THIS?" at the time. We had different attitudes towards this subject, it appears.
I don't know if vpw bought videos when he visited San Francisco, during his
"House of Acts"/Haight-Ashbury tour. J1m D**p said vpw visited "adult" video stores there
at the time. That's PROBABLY when he got the video I just mentioned, but I'm speculating.
Now that my head isn't screaming about vpw describing a video about 2 women and a dog,
I can actually ask myself what should have been some obvious questions.
Why was there no corresponding story about a video of two MEN and a dog?
Obviously, one fit what he wanted to say, but the other one didn't.
And either ONE is condemned by Scripture, or NEITHER is, logically.
But, yes, it was NOT about God or Scripture-
unless that "god" was "vpw's lusts" or that "scripture" was "vpw gets to do whatever he wants".
It indeed WAS about power, and the women were DISPOSABLE to him.
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WordWolf
I know that-as early as the end of the 1960s, when he met D**p and H33fn3r, vpw had
rationalized that orgies were accepted by God, because D**p reported that vpw had offered
his rationalization for them to D**p, who wasn't buying it.
If there were orgies, I would have no idea-I wasn't where or when I could have found
out about it. All I know is that vpw was cool with them-according to vpw, and according to
vpw, God didn't think they were "BEST", but made them "AVAILABLE."
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waysider
WW
Video cassettes first became available in the early 1970's.
Prior to that, such material would have been on film.
They were known as "smokers".
Prior to the introduction of the video tape player, PLAF (The Wonder Class) was presented on reel-to-reel audio tape and on film.
It was cumbersome and frustrating trying to get some of that old equipment to function properly.
HQ was reluctant to foot any of the cost of maintaining equipment in the field.
Frequently, we had to buy our own bulbs and splicing supplies.
I even based my car buying decisions on whether or not the trunk could fit all the gear.
Then, in the early '70s, the Beta machine was introduced. They had "playback only" capabilities.
Wierwille jumped on the bandwagon. He put PLAF on Beta tapes and sent Beta machines to larger areas.
When Beta format was being quietly pushed aside in preparation for the introduction of VHS, Wierwille offered a special one time "deal" to select individuals in the field. If you went through him directly, you could buy your very own Beta machine for the incredibly low price of-------$800!!
Well, I guess that went off topic but if he bought anything when he was in San Francisco, it would have had to have been in the form of a "smoker". Of course, he could have replaced it with a cassette once they became available.
He was a snake oil salesman.
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nandon
vpw met h33fn3r, as in mr. playboy?
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waysider
Nope.(Not that I know of.)
I believe you are thinking of H@gh H3fner, not Steve H33fner.
It gets confusing sometimes when characters are used instead of letters.
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bowtwi
Hmmm, I don't know, waysider - have you ever seen both Hef and Heef in the same room? Do we really know they're not one and the same?
<_< 
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Tzaia
You do realize that this video was shown to children as well under the same premise?
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WordWolf
I know that sometimes teenagers were shown it, under the age of 18.
I'm not aware of anyone pre-teen being shown it.
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Twinky
Just bumping this old thread. Mommas, make sure your daughters are warned as per Rascal's opening remarks. Not just in the church/ religious context - males anywhere.
I think young women are a bit more savvy nowadays - but predators still have their same seductive methods.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Bear, so do I. So many women came to TWI, after they had abused, and neglected in their childhoods. And so what happens they were abused, and sometimes neglected as Adults. Makes me want to upchuck
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sun, I wonder how his wife coped with his evil ways. I thought she was a sweet woman, and a good teacher. I can't imagine being married to a man like VPW-ever!
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Grace Valerie Claire
That poor woman!! I hope she has recovered from all she endured while in TWI.
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