From what I've picked up from the few innies who post here - yes, it's changed. From frantic hell-raising yell and outrageous outbursts from LCM, to dead boring lectures from Rosie's henchmen.
But what it's like to live there nowadays... to serve on staff... to be in rez... to be closeted away from "real life"... to be away from other Christians, other opinions, other input... (shrug) ?
No, the way has not changed. LCM follows the steps of VPW, but he just modernizes the teachings. After he draw the line in 1989 and dismiss the leadership that did not want to obey him, he changed all the classes, for example the class of dealing with the Adversary was changed for Defeating the Adversary by LCM. Later in 1995 he started filming the Way of Abundance and Power foundational, Intermediate and Advanced classes.
But the teachings are the same, Jesus Christ is not God, the dead are dead, abundantly sharing 10% minimum, fellowship and teaching three time a week.
Class materials that come with the fee include - a syllabus, a set of class retemories (memory verses), a one year subscription to The Way Magazine, and four books by V. P. Wierwille: Receiving the Holy Spirit Today, The Bible Tells Me So, The New Dynamic Church, and Christians Should be Prosperous. It does not include the book Power for Abundant Living, which is essentially a transcription of the first four sessions of the PFAL class, nor The Word's Way, which includes Wierwille's version of what came to be two segments of the WAP class on Job. Wierwille plagiarized almost all of Receiving the Holy Spirit Today from books by E. W. Bullinger and J. E. Stiles.
In TWI "moving the Word" means running these classes, not sharing the Gospel. Now as in the past, there is a lot of emphasis on "signing people up for the class" and pressure on the fellowship coordinators to run classes. Several other classes are scheduled throughout the year - the Intermediate Class (January/May), Dealing with the Adversary (as needed), and the new "Advanced Studies" classes including Keys to Biblical Research and a family class. Each class has a separate fee. The Foundational WAP class is a prerequisite for all other classes and for purchasing materials from TWI, so TWI sales and everything else in the calendar hinges on running the WAP.
I was kinda hoping to hear they were NOT using vpw stuff but NOT so huh? The same effects on the mind
this is a pretty accurate assessment of what it was like when I left.
leadership will lie about you once you're gone... I don't know what they said about me, I didn't try to find out. I just heard enough crap about other people who confronted leaders about lying to people, who walked away when it didn't change. leaders said the cop-outs loved money, or their marriage was a mess because the wife was running it.
even in the less confrontational, "more loving" twi, I was treated pretty badly during my divorce. people made veiled accusations, I was shunned when I asked for help taking care of my kids so I could work. the RC told me not to report physical abuse, but by law he was required to because a child was hurt. same guy who spread lies about people who confronted him about lying.
there's no love there.
I went to a different area and heard one of the leaders spouting off about why twi doesn't need the internet to reach people. same stuff that came out of lcm's mouth.
twi isn't even a cistern. it's a cesspool.
How is the twi different???
Good question I will answer from the view from an insider.
They do not get too involved in your personal business so much.
No more schedules for every day of the week. They do inquire
about abs and want to make sure, you have Gods protection.
No in your face yelling and screaming. Not in a fellowship or sts.
In fact, all Sts will put you to sleep, very boring.
There are no more let’s go to the back room after fellowship and have a chat.
I have not seen that in years. There have been meetings of reputation
Bashing when someone left.
Biggest changes are leaders do not expected to be served. They get
out and try to be seen so the folks that have been around forever can
talk of the old days while the new people can see a leader in person at there
own fellowship.
My personal favorite is the out reach program or lack of.
Always big pushes to go way disciple, but the numbers are pathetic.
They now have stay at home programs don’t leave the area and witness
10hrs a week. For your faithfulness, you get nothing,but praise.
They are shrinking and they know it. They just want your money.
I don't know what they said about me, I didn't try to find out. I just heard enough crap about other people who confronted leaders about lying to people, who walked away when it didn't change.
Better be careful, second hand information will get you censored here...
Biggest changes are leaders do not expected to be served. They get out and try to be seen so the folks that have been around forever can talk of the old days while the new people can see a leader in person at their own fellowship.
copenhagen
Do not expect to be served? Don't tell me that means that high-ups don't get Grounds to tend their gardens; Multi-Services to shift their furniture or redecorate or clean the pool; Food Services to prepare their food; Housekeeping to clean the bathroom, etc? No personal servants selected from the in rez Corps any more, or is the in rez Corps too small for that luxury?
Getting out to fellowships sounds unpleasantly controlling. If my local leader had turned up at my fellowship, I would have been delighted. If higher-up leadership had turned up - to begin with, once I'd've felt honored - but later, I'd've wondered what I'd done wrong and how hard I was going to be kicked.
And to boot, do they expect a "gift" by way of thanking them for visiting? Or is, I think you said some time ago, that sort of gift is now banned?
Better be careful, second hand information will get you censored here...
I heard the lies first hand, and in many cases, the "other side" of the story directly from the person who left. the particular case where the RC lied about a couple who left, I did hear about their reason from a mutual friend, but I witnessed their reason for leaving directly, because the RC told a lot of lies and is pretty much a back-biting bastard.
I heard the lies first hand, and in many cases, the "other side" of the story directly from the person who left. the particular case where the RC lied about a couple who left, I did hear about their reason from a mutual friend, but I witnessed their reason for leaving directly, because the RC told a lot of lies and is pretty much a back-biting bastard.
hmmm not very "christian like" for a biblilcal paint by the numbers club!
I don't think so.. they "recycle" the old classes.. and it translates to more money, more "activity".. more useless review of what one paid for long long ago..
again, and again and again..
and the classes are not free to grads of the old classes..
but they consist of the same "prevailing" "junk".. just repackaged..
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dmiller
If you want pfal, it's *available* from various sources. I haven't a clue what BS they are teaching today,
but I'm willing to bet it's not *the original* docvic stuff. Newer/ better/ *present truth*/ don't cha know. :unsure:
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cheranne
I wonder if any new folks can tell me how it is differant now if they are still teaching the same message
(by vpw)and....the class.
Did they just flip the dirty mattress over and think it wouldn't stink? Are they still lying(lie)in the waste?
If not...why don't they change the name of TWI?
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Twinky
From what I've picked up from the few innies who post here - yes, it's changed. From frantic hell-raising yell and outrageous outbursts from LCM, to dead boring lectures from Rosie's henchmen.
But what it's like to live there nowadays... to serve on staff... to be in rez... to be closeted away from "real life"... to be away from other Christians, other opinions, other input... (shrug) ?
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themex
No, the way has not changed. LCM follows the steps of VPW, but he just modernizes the teachings. After he draw the line in 1989 and dismiss the leadership that did not want to obey him, he changed all the classes, for example the class of dealing with the Adversary was changed for Defeating the Adversary by LCM. Later in 1995 he started filming the Way of Abundance and Power foundational, Intermediate and Advanced classes.
But the teachings are the same, Jesus Christ is not God, the dead are dead, abundantly sharing 10% minimum, fellowship and teaching three time a week.
The Law of Believing. Speaking in Tongues.
http://www.pfo.org/waypurge.htm
http://empirenet.com/~messiah7/rsr_newWap.htm
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cheranne
so... basically it is STILL the same.
Class materials that come with the fee include - a syllabus, a set of class retemories (memory verses), a one year subscription to The Way Magazine, and four books by V. P. Wierwille: Receiving the Holy Spirit Today, The Bible Tells Me So, The New Dynamic Church, and Christians Should be Prosperous. It does not include the book Power for Abundant Living, which is essentially a transcription of the first four sessions of the PFAL class, nor The Word's Way, which includes Wierwille's version of what came to be two segments of the WAP class on Job. Wierwille plagiarized almost all of Receiving the Holy Spirit Today from books by E. W. Bullinger and J. E. Stiles.
In TWI "moving the Word" means running these classes, not sharing the Gospel. Now as in the past, there is a lot of emphasis on "signing people up for the class" and pressure on the fellowship coordinators to run classes. Several other classes are scheduled throughout the year - the Intermediate Class (January/May), Dealing with the Adversary (as needed), and the new "Advanced Studies" classes including Keys to Biblical Research and a family class. Each class has a separate fee. The Foundational WAP class is a prerequisite for all other classes and for purchasing materials from TWI, so TWI sales and everything else in the calendar hinges on running the WAP.
I was kinda hoping to hear they were NOT using vpw stuff but NOT so huh? The same effects on the mind
of the student exist.
Very sad.
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copenhagen
How is the twi different???
Good question I will answer from the view from an insider.
They do not get too involved in your personal business so much.
No more schedules for every day of the week. They do inquire
about abs and want to make sure, you have Gods protection.
No in your face yelling and screaming. Not in a fellowship or sts.
In fact, all Sts will put you to sleep, very boring.
There are no more let’s go to the back room after fellowship and have a chat.
I have not seen that in years. There have been meetings of reputation
Bashing when someone left.
Biggest changes are leaders do not expected to be served. They get
out and try to be seen so the folks that have been around forever can
talk of the old days while the new people can see a leader in person at there
own fellowship.
My personal favorite is the out reach program or lack of.
Always big pushes to go way disciple, but the numbers are pathetic.
They now have stay at home programs don’t leave the area and witness
10hrs a week. For your faithfulness, you get nothing,but praise.
They are shrinking and they know it. They just want your money.
copenhagen
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waysider
It's an Elephant Graveyard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant%27s_graveyard
Elephants, by the way, live in matriarchal societies.
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RumRunner
Now that line is a keeper!
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potato
this is a pretty accurate assessment of what it was like when I left.
leadership will lie about you once you're gone... I don't know what they said about me, I didn't try to find out. I just heard enough crap about other people who confronted leaders about lying to people, who walked away when it didn't change. leaders said the cop-outs loved money, or their marriage was a mess because the wife was running it.
even in the less confrontational, "more loving" twi, I was treated pretty badly during my divorce. people made veiled accusations, I was shunned when I asked for help taking care of my kids so I could work. the RC told me not to report physical abuse, but by law he was required to because a child was hurt. same guy who spread lies about people who confronted him about lying.
there's no love there.
I went to a different area and heard one of the leaders spouting off about why twi doesn't need the internet to reach people. same stuff that came out of lcm's mouth.
twi isn't even a cistern. it's a cesspool.
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Ham
I'd say it hasn"t changed, just changed the decor..
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GrouchoMarxJr
Better be careful, second hand information will get you censored here...
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waysider
As long as they still have red drapes, things will probably be OK
(I'm believing for it.)
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Bolshevik
So will telling the truth.
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Twinky
Do not expect to be served? Don't tell me that means that high-ups don't get Grounds to tend their gardens; Multi-Services to shift their furniture or redecorate or clean the pool; Food Services to prepare their food; Housekeeping to clean the bathroom, etc? No personal servants selected from the in rez Corps any more, or is the in rez Corps too small for that luxury?
Getting out to fellowships sounds unpleasantly controlling. If my local leader had turned up at my fellowship, I would have been delighted. If higher-up leadership had turned up - to begin with, once I'd've felt honored - but later, I'd've wondered what I'd done wrong and how hard I was going to be kicked.
And to boot, do they expect a "gift" by way of thanking them for visiting? Or is, I think you said some time ago, that sort of gift is now banned?
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skyrider
It sits there like a diamond !!
ALL sunday teaching services will put you to sleep, very boring.
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waysider
It might sit there like a diamond but you'll sit there like a duck.
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potato
I heard the lies first hand, and in many cases, the "other side" of the story directly from the person who left. the particular case where the RC lied about a couple who left, I did hear about their reason from a mutual friend, but I witnessed their reason for leaving directly, because the RC told a lot of lies and is pretty much a back-biting bastard.
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cheranne
hmmm not very "christian like" for a biblilcal paint by the numbers club!
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Bolshevik
twi has not changed. Just look at Way Prod. They're wearing the same outfits they did 30 years ago.
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cheranne
I just wonder how knowing that this is wrong teaching ,false doctrine etc...why they (TWI) continue to sell
it?
Why do people continue to buy it? There is no freedom in it? Are they that spell bound ? Help me to understand it
because I can see how "new' people would get lost in the smokescreeen but...the old people should have wised up
long ago.
So I guess the can't change the name TWI because it is still the same thing.
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Ham
Has herr vey.. or classes actually changed?
I don't think so.. they "recycle" the old classes.. and it translates to more money, more "activity".. more useless review of what one paid for long long ago..
again, and again and again..
and the classes are not free to grads of the old classes..
but they consist of the same "prevailing" "junk".. just repackaged..
only way they can sell it I guess..
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Ham
and they run the classes in the same rooms.. the same people.. everything is practically the same..
same "students"..
fifty and sixty some year olds, who have had the same teaching in a more primitive package.. over thirty years ago..
it must be hard to act "excited" to hear the same junk repackaged fifty different ways..
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Ham
Even the offshoots repackage it..
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Ham
the ONLY SINGLE friggin difference..
is the technology..
so they put "pfal" on streaming audio on the internet or something..
it's the SAME STINKING STUFF..
the only "exciting" thing is they have some new media to record it with..
nicer looking syllabi.. prettier looking fonts..
da way oughter get a clue..
put "legitimate" copies of pfal up on Ebay..
"oooh, oooh... I can download and put it on an Ipod.."
OK. I think I'm done, for the moment..
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