During my time at Emporia and Rome City, it was my perception that if you wanted to climb the gnarly way tree you had to learn how to kick the guy in the face who was on the branch just below you...
Many, who were mild mannered and easy going were passed over in favor of those who were willing to emulate Vic and Loy in terms of getting in people's faces. A big ego, a big mouth and a mean spirit were the recipe to get promoted...that and the ability to make them money.
A haven for bullies?...YOU BET!
The bible verses encouraging Christians to be kindhearted, forgiving one another never made it into the practical world of twi...Eventually, this was the reason, I believe, that Walter was passed over in favor of the okie.
No wonder twi basicly folded its operation shortly after wierwille's death......and the bullies moved on, to run their own crystal-ball tent operations.
and essentially they are the same.. same authoritarianism.. same trivial logic and "research"..
same castrated intellect..
same verions of circular reasoning..
maybe it's all a bullies intellect can understand..
During my time at Emporia and Rome City, it was my perception that if you wanted to climb the gnarly way tree you had to learn how to kick the guy in the face who was on the branch just below you...
Many, who were mild mannered and easy going were passed over in favor of those who were willing to emulate Vic and Loy in terms of getting in people's faces. A big ego, a big mouth and a mean spirit were the recipe to get promoted...that and the ability to make them money.
A haven for bullies?...YOU BET!
The bible verses encouraging Christians to be kindhearted, forgiving one another never made it into the practical world of twi...Eventually, this was the reason, I believe, that Walter was passed over in favor of the okie.
(IN PFAL I think) I remember there was a huge emphasis on Jesus not being a wimp and getting in the faces of the pharisees and such.
That he was very confrontational. In my opinion they pushed this kind of mentality.
During my time at Emporia and Rome City, it was my perception that if you wanted to climb the gnarly way tree you had to learn how to kick the guy in the face who was on the branch just below you...
Many, who were mild mannered and easy going were passed over in favor of those who were willing to emulate Vic and Loy in terms of getting in people's faces. A big ego, a big mouth and a mean spirit were the recipe to get promoted...that and the ability to make them money.
A haven for bullies?...YOU BET!
The bible verses encouraging Christians to be kindhearted, forgiving one another never made it into the practical world of twi...Eventually, this was the reason, I believe, that Walter was passed over in favor of the okie.
Or they went in mild mannered and within 6 months turned into complete jerks. That happened too. People you really liked, changed right before your eyes. That is one of the reasons hubby left Emporia. . . well, that and of course ME. He said it was the begining of the end. Opened his eyes to alot of messed up things.
One minute they are your friend the next in your face. But, they were the ones who moved on up the chain of command, you are right.
Or they went in mild mannered and within 6 months turned into complete jerks. That happened too. People you really liked, changed right before your eyes. That is one of the reasons hubby left Emporia. . . well, that and of course ME. He said it was the begining of the end. Opened his eyes to alot of messed up things.
One minute they are your friend the next in your face. But, they were the ones who moved on up the chain of command, you are right.
On so many levels, the corps "training" was a "boot camp" of.......indoctrination, competitiveness, submission and servitude. That's why some of us don't get any warm fuzzies from our inrez daze.
And......some of us don't care to go to a 'corps only' website.
So, is the consensus that the bullies and monsters were created or that the people who became creepy, predisposed to become that way anyway, they just found fertile ground in twi?
I mean I used to know what I thought were some really nice folks that decades later ended up becoming other posters worst night mares.
Or they went in mild mannered and within 6 months turned into complete jerks. That happened too. People you really liked, changed right before your eyes.
This is one of the big reasons I never went into the Way Corps, and I had been getting "encouragement" to do so for a while. People I had known since I first was involved changed from being caring and happy-go-lucky regular folks into hardcases; cold and unfriendly, with the spiritual "thousand-yard-stare" and the weight of the battle/contest for the souls of men laying squarely on their shoulders.
That coupled with some of the stuff I was starting to hear about the Way Corps (attention to detail bordering on obsessive-compulsive behavior, sleep depravation, lousy food [my experience at the 1978 Advanced Class notwithstanding], expelling Corps participants for "unauthorized research", limiting the number of squares with which you could wipe your bum, etc.) made me realize the Way Corps was not for me.
Why this all didn't make me leave sooner, I'll never know.
Well, I do, kinda; I wasn't surrounded by Way Corps on a regular basis. Just regular people who loved God and wanted to know His will in their life. I guess I just sloughed off the crap in favor of good friends and fellowship.
So, is the consensus that the bullies and monsters were created or that the people who became creepy, predisposed to become that way anyway, they just found fertile ground in twi?
I mean I used to know what I thought were some really nice folks that decades later ended up becoming other posters worst night mares.
rascal......I saw some of both, bullies who forged ahead unhindered and, at times, praised for their "bold" stance and others who were reinforcd week after week to be mean-spirited. I am certainly no psychologist, but found it interesting to see other men emboldened by wierwille's narcisstic patterns......especially the 6th and 7th corps men (imo)......and trying to mimic his style.
Of course, in any group that numbers into the hundreds and thousands.......there were plenty of mild-mannered corps who never changed much at all. To their credit, these corps remained true to their principles, true to their values. Sure, there was more knowledge, more confidence, more exposure and awareness......but mean-spirited? No.
Like so many things in life, the bullying aspect of the corps was just another dimension. The problem arose because they emulated the ways of wierwille......and were promoted for it. Had wierwille been true to christian values and character, he would have wielded the sword of the spirit and put those smart-arses in their place. But no......that didn't happen.
Had wierwille been true to christian values and character, he would have wielded the sword of the spirit and put those smart-arses in their place. But no......that didn't happen.
Thanks Skyrider, I knew a lot of really nice corp people. I wondered why some remained kind and caring.
DO you think possibly that the people who were able to remain unaltered....DO you think that the difference between them and the bullies was that maybe they were christian before becoming involved?
...that in spite of our knowledge that we could still be spiritually empty...
I wonder if that is why some saw God work even in the midst of the worst that place offered.
I guess that I am saying it badly....It just seems like there were two kinds of people in twi.
So, is the consensus that the bullies and monsters were created or that the people who became creepy, predisposed to become that way anyway, they just found fertile ground in twi?
I mean I used to know what I thought were some really nice folks that decades later ended up becoming other posters worst night mares.
I think there was some of each...
Some folks were already that way and others decided to become that way...and of course there were many who refused to become bullies...much to their credit.
I don't know if TWI was a haven for bullies. What I do know is that some people perceived there was a spiritual "pecking order" and they felt compelled to peck at those who they believed were spiritually beneath them. I was never corp, but I experienced first hand that tendency to peck. And I was probably one of the few who got in a corp person's face and told him that levels of spirituality were not doled out on the basis of a name tag and whoever told him that was not reading his bible right.
From that point forward, I took leadership with a very large grain of salt and behaved accordingly.
Programing people to act like bullies is only half of the story.
The other half is that they programed others to be recipients.
They programed the latter to believe they were spiritually weak (whatever that really means) and wrong to ever question or doubt the former. [Refer to Eve's predicament, as "explained" in session 7 of PLAF (The Wonder Class).] They villafied those who objected and protested. They never could have succeeded in creating a class of bullies without creating a class of recipients. For some people, it takes years to recognize that such vulnerability can have disastrous consequences. So, in a sense, it's my opinion that instilling a naive sense of blind trust in the recipients was just as heinous as creating bullies.
Programing people to act like bullies is only half of the story.
The other half is that they programed others to be recipients.
They programed the latter to believe they were spiritually weak (whatever that really means) and wrong to ever question or doubt the former. [Refer to Eve's predicament, as "explained" in session 7 of PLAF (The Wonder Class).] They villafied those who objected and protested. They never could have succeeded in creating a class of bullies without creating a class of recipients. For some people, it takes years to recognize that such vulnerability can have disastrous consequences. So, in a sense, it's my opinion that instilling a naive sense of blind trust in the recipients was just as heinous as creating bullies.
Damned right... Peter and Jesus...obey your leader and seer a miracle...pay any attention to your 5 senses, you`d sink like a rock....don`t obey, don`t accept face meltings, you were stiff necked...and you know...I wonder if there in is part of why you have people who are still divided over twi today?? Maybe some liked feeling like spiritual heavies, the recipients are offended by the treatment and can maybe easier see that there were problems.
It was true, in TWI, the squeaky wheel got the grease. The loud-mouthed, egotistical men were chosen. In any organization, if you read a bit on organizational psychology, the people at the top, are not necessarily the best people, hardest workers, etc. They are people that those on the top personally like. They see that this guy will fit in nicely with the other guys at the top and so take him under their wing and nurture him. Yes, birds of a feather flocked together. You could literally see, in the first two weeks or so, the men they had picked out by the assignments they got.
This also applied to women to. Many of VP's female revs were also sarcastic, bitchy loudmouths - some tough gals so to speak. Although there were exceptions to that rule.
I also think, there were many milder-mannered men who went in, who deep in their heart, wanted power and had always restrained themselves. Now, they were in a situation where it was ok to let loose the restraints and be what they really wanted to be - tough guys.
I think, people became what they wanted to be.
Those who didn't change, I think many were people who loved God, or had a great upbringing, whatever, but they could just never imagine themselves behaving that way.
I do not believe that everyone who went in TWI were born again. I think, kind of like Hitler's organization was - there was an opportunity to get in on the ground floor of something and get some power. It attracted certain people. I had been lucky enough on the field to be with wonderful people and was quite surprised to see some of the loud-mouthed bullies when I ended up in-residence. I just pretty much ignored them and never took them seriously. Those of us where weren't bullies made great friends with other "like" people and we relied on our little social networks to get through it.
Thanks Skyrider, I knew a lot of really nice corp people. I wondered why some remained kind and caring.
DO you think possibly that the people who were able to remain unaltered....DO you think that the difference between them and the bullies was that maybe they were christian before becoming involved?
...that in spite of our knowledge that we could still be spiritually empty...
I wonder if that is why some saw God work even in the midst of the worst that place offered.
I guess that I am saying it badly....It just seems like there were two kinds of people in twi.
The dynamics of the inresidence corps program varied from year to year, campus to campus, social connectivity, bullying branch leaders, age differences, physical limitations, stress levels, boot-camp routines, 18-hour gruelling days, fun runs, bless patrol nights, egg shells in scrambled eggs, wheat berries, brown-sack sundays, lunch announcements, never-ending meetings, sitting cross-legged for hours, daily confrontations, never good enough, jet-style packing class, mal-pack and conspiracy theories, no trust in earthly families, information overload, the best -- and yet, scum, the elite of twi -- and yet, the slave labor for all events, etc. etc. etc.
One of the interesting patterns of corps indoctrination.......was to always keep us off-balanced and unstable. In this regard, our dependence was on them. In retrospect, I see the devious workings of stripping the corps of all individuality.....and then, implanting subservient values and purpose to support twi.
Unless one experienced the rigorous regimentation and rituals of "righteousness" in the corps program.....it's hard to describe the enormous bombardment of constant information on a daily basis. We had twig meetings, sometimes branch meetings, branch responsibilities each month -- like wierwille library setup crew, dorm room meetings, 4-hour workshift,
ready for lunch - hungry after lunch, lunch announcements, class assignments, don't leave campus, etc. etc.
Sleeping in a room with some 30 guys was an experience in and of itself...........people moving in and out all hours of the night with bless patrol, prayer vigil, late-nighters..........drop-dead sleep, some sleep - some set alarms for 4am work shift in kitchen - some set alarms for 4:15am to go running - some set alarms for 4:30am to get hot showers - many set alarms for 4:45am to get up - a few set alarms at 5:05am and jumped out of bed and dashed to class (needed to be seated by 5:20am). One could easily say that the "inter-social" dynamics of this close inhabitation could fill a chapter of a book.
Of course......the family corps (and children) had another whole set of dynamics as well.
And......at times, the block change shipped many to another root locale....like out to camp gunnison, or rome city, or headquarters. Another whole set of variables......
But for some..........the corps experience was like water off a duck's back. Some went into the corps, graduated and left shortly thereafter having few regrets........back to college, back to a career, back to life. Others who invested heavily in time, effort, and loss of opportunity can substantiate the indoctrination and subtle approach. The agendas of control and exploiting the youth were in wierwille's domain. Then, there are those who were deeply and systematically abused..... sexually and/or psychologically. Many have told their stories.
Only in writing a book......could I convey the simple-hearted sweetness of many wonderful corps, the 18-hour days of rigorous regimentation, the darkening clouds of despair and dependency, the yearly assignments after corps graduation, the wierwille deception dismantled, and the glorious path of freedom, a newfound freedom.
It was true, in TWI, the squeaky wheel got the grease.
<snip>
how the heck did "the squeaky wheel" idiom become such a part of twi culture? reading this just now really rubbed me the wrong way, because I went to twi leadership for help with my marriage and I was told I was the problem in spite of the fact that my ex is a pathological liar.once I was divorced they accused me of not having asked for help.... when I pointed out that I did, they said I should have kept after it, because "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".
all I can say to that now is "SCREW THAT BS."
an ounce of prevention equals a pound of cure. once the wheel is squeaky, the repairs are gonna cost. and here I thought honesty was worth something!
why was it always about who made the most noise? the loudest people got the most praise. what a screwed up organization.
Back in the day, we called the ones who went in sweet and came out mean and hateful "Hard-Corps."
Other than my WOW year, my first encounter with a "Hard-Corps" was the woman who came to run the college town where we lived and Mr. Garden was enrolled. She took over everyone's life. She stayed with us until she could find her own place. I could hardly stand her from the get-go and she disrupted my life. Then, when we and another couple decided to share a rented house in the country together, and we got our first dog, everything went well until she decided to grant us the honor of moving in with us! Then, it was HER house and WE were allowed the honor of living with HER! Then, she decided MY dog needed to be an outside dog. Then, WC on lightbearers started showing up to stay at HER house for a few days, letting MY dog follow them five miles into town (because SHE had decided he was an outside dog).
Things got so bad that one girl on lightbearers tried to get Her Majesty into a discussion with me. I was spending most of the time crying my eyes out in our little bedroom (Mr. Garden worked nights at a restaurant to pay for college). Her majesty, who had taken over our large bedroom upstairs, calmly said she had done nothing that was wrong or improper, had nothing to apologize for, and I should be thankful she cared enough to try to straighten out my life for me. The lightbearer girl was one of the few nice ones who came through; most of them treated the non-WC who were living in HER house like servants, or better yet, acted as if we didn't exist. It was one of them who told me about the dog following them, and I urged her to make sure he was shut up in the house, in our room if need be, before they left.
This was the year there was a live-class whoop-de-do that lasted two weeks one summer. We moved out and rented a different house so she could have her family members and WC friends stay with her. I was miffed we were the ones who had to move, but I suspect it was because Mr. Garden was sick of hearing me complain; he was busy with school and didn't get too involved in the household dynamics. After that The Queen moved out and we moved back to the old house with an entirely different set of people and things were much for the better, especially since no one interfered with MY dog.
You might wonder if this woman ever changed. She did, in fact, marry a likable, happy-go-lucky fellow, who after several years was just like her, and she had become even more egotistically legalistic. (Because legalism, IMO, is not as much "Do it God's way or else" as it is "Do it my way or else").
I did also know sweet, wonderful, kind, honest, sincere folks who were WC, but they either left when LCM ascended to the throne, or changed into legalistic minions of his out of fear.
Mr. Potato, I use that phrase, because, in-residence, it was exactly the loud-mouthed, extroverted men who attracted the attention of the higher ups - corps coordinators, limb coordinators, etc. Also LCM was like that and he was their example. Although, sometimes the quiet ones were also chosen, and some even unwillingly. But, look at the leadership who were corps, you will see it in action. Most, not all though, top leadership were very arrogant.
DO you think possibly that the people who were able to remain unaltered....DO you think that the difference between them and the bullies was that maybe they were christian before becoming involved?
...that in spite of our knowledge that we could still be spiritually empty...
I wonder if that is why some saw God work even in the midst of the worst that place offered.
I guess that I am saying it badly....It just seems like there were two kinds of people in twi.
rascal......in realistic terms, no, there were NOT two kinds of people in twi or the corps. But your point is very thought-provoking in the sense of twi teachings and black/white mentality.
How often the spearhead of a teaching was driving the point of one or the other.......God vs. devil, truth or error, light or darkness, believing or not believing, genuine or counterfeit, corps or non-corps, etc. Could it be that countless teachings and examples brought us to the point of perceiving a leader or follower choice?
Isn't there a cliche?........."Lead, follow or get out of the way."
Like that scripture, what you LOOK AT, you become........I tend to think that wierwille/martindale and others were always in the spotlight and an imprint (tupos) that registered consciously or subconsciously. Either way, there was no mistake in perception. If you wanted to be "a leader in twi".......then you need to have those qualities. And, what were those "qualities?"..........out-spoken, aggressive, confrontational, adamant, demanding, forceful, etc.
And, that's where the rubber meets the road, sorta speak........a leader was MORE VALUABLE TO GOD than a follower. Maybe it was pushing buttons of ego, or whatever......but why would one "just" follow when God needed so many leaders in this world. Do you have "natural leadership ability?"
The fork in the road was there..........Lead or Follow.
The bride-builder built the bridge.......for others to follow.
The corps program was for leaders......not followers.
Time and time again, during my inresidence "training"..........I would go for quiet walks to get away from THE NOISE. And, in a prayerful way, I would commune with my thoughts and God....pondering the extremes of the "training" AND the lack of other truths that laid silent. Things like......the life and ministry of Jesus, compassion, long-suffering, prayer, adversity, uprightness, individuality, etc.......not just the chest-thumping "we've got the truth" spiel.
Of course, NOW.........I realize that my mind was fighting the INDOCTRINATION which, at given points in time, escalated to wierwille-idolatry. I never believed that wierwille was THE man of God on earth........it just didn't fit in my concept of the One Body where Christ was the head. In so many ways, the corps was railroaded on the tracks of wierwille's life to the undisclosed destination of work camps...........NOT ON THE TRACKS OF THE ONE WHO REDEEMED ME.
Mr. Potato, I use that phrase, because, in-residence, it was exactly the loud-mouthed, extroverted men who attracted the attention of the higher ups - corps coordinators, limb coordinators, etc. Also LCM was like that and he was their example. Although, sometimes the quiet ones were also chosen, and some even unwillingly. But, look at the leadership who were corps, you will see it in action. Most, not all though, top leadership were very arrogant.
I'm a female potato :)
you are right about the squeaky wheels. narcissists, the lot of them. my ex, too. he was "corps material" because of his attention-seeking behavior, until we actually made it into residence and he couldn't hold his stuff together. I'm so thankful we got kicked out.
I hate squeaky wheels, and I hated the expectation that I should be one to get listened to. I like living with people who can just dialogue, explaining and listening, you know? didn't happen in twi. we were taught to listen with the ulterior motive to get people BACK ON THE WORD, and usually make them feel like crap in the process.
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GrouchoMarxJr
During my time at Emporia and Rome City, it was my perception that if you wanted to climb the gnarly way tree you had to learn how to kick the guy in the face who was on the branch just below you...
Many, who were mild mannered and easy going were passed over in favor of those who were willing to emulate Vic and Loy in terms of getting in people's faces. A big ego, a big mouth and a mean spirit were the recipe to get promoted...that and the ability to make them money.
A haven for bullies?...YOU BET!
The bible verses encouraging Christians to be kindhearted, forgiving one another never made it into the practical world of twi...Eventually, this was the reason, I believe, that Walter was passed over in favor of the okie.
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Ham
and essentially they are the same.. same authoritarianism.. same trivial logic and "research"..
same castrated intellect..
same verions of circular reasoning..
maybe it's all a bullies intellect can understand..
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leafytwiglet
(IN PFAL I think) I remember there was a huge emphasis on Jesus not being a wimp and getting in the faces of the pharisees and such.
That he was very confrontational. In my opinion they pushed this kind of mentality.
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geisha779
Or they went in mild mannered and within 6 months turned into complete jerks. That happened too. People you really liked, changed right before your eyes. That is one of the reasons hubby left Emporia. . . well, that and of course ME. He said it was the begining of the end. Opened his eyes to alot of messed up things.
One minute they are your friend the next in your face. But, they were the ones who moved on up the chain of command, you are right.
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skyrider
On so many levels, the corps "training" was a "boot camp" of.......indoctrination, competitiveness, submission and servitude. That's why some of us don't get any warm fuzzies from our inrez daze.
And......some of us don't care to go to a 'corps only' website.
<_<
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rascal
So, is the consensus that the bullies and monsters were created or that the people who became creepy, predisposed to become that way anyway, they just found fertile ground in twi?
I mean I used to know what I thought were some really nice folks that decades later ended up becoming other posters worst night mares.
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Kevlar2000
This is one of the big reasons I never went into the Way Corps, and I had been getting "encouragement" to do so for a while. People I had known since I first was involved changed from being caring and happy-go-lucky regular folks into hardcases; cold and unfriendly, with the spiritual "thousand-yard-stare" and the weight of the battle/contest for the souls of men laying squarely on their shoulders.
That coupled with some of the stuff I was starting to hear about the Way Corps (attention to detail bordering on obsessive-compulsive behavior, sleep depravation, lousy food [my experience at the 1978 Advanced Class notwithstanding], expelling Corps participants for "unauthorized research", limiting the number of squares with which you could wipe your bum, etc.) made me realize the Way Corps was not for me.
Why this all didn't make me leave sooner, I'll never know.
Well, I do, kinda; I wasn't surrounded by Way Corps on a regular basis. Just regular people who loved God and wanted to know His will in their life. I guess I just sloughed off the crap in favor of good friends and fellowship.
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skyrider
rascal......I saw some of both, bullies who forged ahead unhindered and, at times, praised for their "bold" stance and others who were reinforcd week after week to be mean-spirited. I am certainly no psychologist, but found it interesting to see other men emboldened by wierwille's narcisstic patterns......especially the 6th and 7th corps men (imo)......and trying to mimic his style.
Of course, in any group that numbers into the hundreds and thousands.......there were plenty of mild-mannered corps who never changed much at all. To their credit, these corps remained true to their principles, true to their values. Sure, there was more knowledge, more confidence, more exposure and awareness......but mean-spirited? No.
Like so many things in life, the bullying aspect of the corps was just another dimension. The problem arose because they emulated the ways of wierwille......and were promoted for it. Had wierwille been true to christian values and character, he would have wielded the sword of the spirit and put those smart-arses in their place. But no......that didn't happen.
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waysider
Maybe his scabbard was empty.
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rascal
Thanks Skyrider, I knew a lot of really nice corp people. I wondered why some remained kind and caring.
DO you think possibly that the people who were able to remain unaltered....DO you think that the difference between them and the bullies was that maybe they were christian before becoming involved?
...that in spite of our knowledge that we could still be spiritually empty...
I wonder if that is why some saw God work even in the midst of the worst that place offered.
I guess that I am saying it badly....It just seems like there were two kinds of people in twi.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I think there was some of each...
Some folks were already that way and others decided to become that way...and of course there were many who refused to become bullies...much to their credit.
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Tzaia
I don't know if TWI was a haven for bullies. What I do know is that some people perceived there was a spiritual "pecking order" and they felt compelled to peck at those who they believed were spiritually beneath them. I was never corp, but I experienced first hand that tendency to peck. And I was probably one of the few who got in a corp person's face and told him that levels of spirituality were not doled out on the basis of a name tag and whoever told him that was not reading his bible right.
From that point forward, I took leadership with a very large grain of salt and behaved accordingly.
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waysider
Programing people to act like bullies is only half of the story.
The other half is that they programed others to be recipients.
They programed the latter to believe they were spiritually weak (whatever that really means) and wrong to ever question or doubt the former. [Refer to Eve's predicament, as "explained" in session 7 of PLAF (The Wonder Class).] They villafied those who objected and protested. They never could have succeeded in creating a class of bullies without creating a class of recipients. For some people, it takes years to recognize that such vulnerability can have disastrous consequences. So, in a sense, it's my opinion that instilling a naive sense of blind trust in the recipients was just as heinous as creating bullies.
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rascal
Damned right... Peter and Jesus...obey your leader and seer a miracle...pay any attention to your 5 senses, you`d sink like a rock....don`t obey, don`t accept face meltings, you were stiff necked...and you know...I wonder if there in is part of why you have people who are still divided over twi today?? Maybe some liked feeling like spiritual heavies, the recipients are offended by the treatment and can maybe easier see that there were problems.
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Sunesis
It was true, in TWI, the squeaky wheel got the grease. The loud-mouthed, egotistical men were chosen. In any organization, if you read a bit on organizational psychology, the people at the top, are not necessarily the best people, hardest workers, etc. They are people that those on the top personally like. They see that this guy will fit in nicely with the other guys at the top and so take him under their wing and nurture him. Yes, birds of a feather flocked together. You could literally see, in the first two weeks or so, the men they had picked out by the assignments they got.
This also applied to women to. Many of VP's female revs were also sarcastic, bitchy loudmouths - some tough gals so to speak. Although there were exceptions to that rule.
I also think, there were many milder-mannered men who went in, who deep in their heart, wanted power and had always restrained themselves. Now, they were in a situation where it was ok to let loose the restraints and be what they really wanted to be - tough guys.
I think, people became what they wanted to be.
Those who didn't change, I think many were people who loved God, or had a great upbringing, whatever, but they could just never imagine themselves behaving that way.
I do not believe that everyone who went in TWI were born again. I think, kind of like Hitler's organization was - there was an opportunity to get in on the ground floor of something and get some power. It attracted certain people. I had been lucky enough on the field to be with wonderful people and was quite surprised to see some of the loud-mouthed bullies when I ended up in-residence. I just pretty much ignored them and never took them seriously. Those of us where weren't bullies made great friends with other "like" people and we relied on our little social networks to get through it.
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skyrider
The dynamics of the inresidence corps program varied from year to year, campus to campus, social connectivity, bullying branch leaders, age differences, physical limitations, stress levels, boot-camp routines, 18-hour gruelling days, fun runs, bless patrol nights, egg shells in scrambled eggs, wheat berries, brown-sack sundays, lunch announcements, never-ending meetings, sitting cross-legged for hours, daily confrontations, never good enough, jet-style packing class, mal-pack and conspiracy theories, no trust in earthly families, information overload, the best -- and yet, scum, the elite of twi -- and yet, the slave labor for all events, etc. etc. etc.
One of the interesting patterns of corps indoctrination.......was to always keep us off-balanced and unstable. In this regard, our dependence was on them. In retrospect, I see the devious workings of stripping the corps of all individuality.....and then, implanting subservient values and purpose to support twi.
Unless one experienced the rigorous regimentation and rituals of "righteousness" in the corps program.....it's hard to describe the enormous bombardment of constant information on a daily basis. We had twig meetings, sometimes branch meetings, branch responsibilities each month -- like wierwille library setup crew, dorm room meetings, 4-hour workshift,
ready for lunch - hungry after lunch, lunch announcements, class assignments, don't leave campus, etc. etc.
Sleeping in a room with some 30 guys was an experience in and of itself...........people moving in and out all hours of the night with bless patrol, prayer vigil, late-nighters..........drop-dead sleep, some sleep - some set alarms for 4am work shift in kitchen - some set alarms for 4:15am to go running - some set alarms for 4:30am to get hot showers - many set alarms for 4:45am to get up - a few set alarms at 5:05am and jumped out of bed and dashed to class (needed to be seated by 5:20am). One could easily say that the "inter-social" dynamics of this close inhabitation could fill a chapter of a book.
Of course......the family corps (and children) had another whole set of dynamics as well.
And......at times, the block change shipped many to another root locale....like out to camp gunnison, or rome city, or headquarters. Another whole set of variables......
But for some..........the corps experience was like water off a duck's back. Some went into the corps, graduated and left shortly thereafter having few regrets........back to college, back to a career, back to life. Others who invested heavily in time, effort, and loss of opportunity can substantiate the indoctrination and subtle approach. The agendas of control and exploiting the youth were in wierwille's domain. Then, there are those who were deeply and systematically abused..... sexually and/or psychologically. Many have told their stories.
Only in writing a book......could I convey the simple-hearted sweetness of many wonderful corps, the 18-hour days of rigorous regimentation, the darkening clouds of despair and dependency, the yearly assignments after corps graduation, the wierwille deception dismantled, and the glorious path of freedom, a newfound freedom.
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leafytwiglet
Being a spouse corps you got hints of what went on but never the whole picture.
For me coming to GSC has been part understanding the dynamics for me
but also part understanding where my Husband is coming from and why he does some of the things he does.
Recognizing it all for what it is.
And hopefully maybe finding a way to change some of the leftover TWI behaviors.
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potato
how the heck did "the squeaky wheel" idiom become such a part of twi culture? reading this just now really rubbed me the wrong way, because I went to twi leadership for help with my marriage and I was told I was the problem in spite of the fact that my ex is a pathological liar.once I was divorced they accused me of not having asked for help.... when I pointed out that I did, they said I should have kept after it, because "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".
all I can say to that now is "SCREW THAT BS."
an ounce of prevention equals a pound of cure. once the wheel is squeaky, the repairs are gonna cost. and here I thought honesty was worth something!
why was it always about who made the most noise? the loudest people got the most praise. what a screwed up organization.
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WordWolf
Because otherwise they'd actually have to PAY ATTENTION.
This way, they could PRETEND to care, and only look up when there's NOISE.
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Watered Garden
Back in the day, we called the ones who went in sweet and came out mean and hateful "Hard-Corps."
Other than my WOW year, my first encounter with a "Hard-Corps" was the woman who came to run the college town where we lived and Mr. Garden was enrolled. She took over everyone's life. She stayed with us until she could find her own place. I could hardly stand her from the get-go and she disrupted my life. Then, when we and another couple decided to share a rented house in the country together, and we got our first dog, everything went well until she decided to grant us the honor of moving in with us! Then, it was HER house and WE were allowed the honor of living with HER! Then, she decided MY dog needed to be an outside dog. Then, WC on lightbearers started showing up to stay at HER house for a few days, letting MY dog follow them five miles into town (because SHE had decided he was an outside dog).
Things got so bad that one girl on lightbearers tried to get Her Majesty into a discussion with me. I was spending most of the time crying my eyes out in our little bedroom (Mr. Garden worked nights at a restaurant to pay for college). Her majesty, who had taken over our large bedroom upstairs, calmly said she had done nothing that was wrong or improper, had nothing to apologize for, and I should be thankful she cared enough to try to straighten out my life for me. The lightbearer girl was one of the few nice ones who came through; most of them treated the non-WC who were living in HER house like servants, or better yet, acted as if we didn't exist. It was one of them who told me about the dog following them, and I urged her to make sure he was shut up in the house, in our room if need be, before they left.
This was the year there was a live-class whoop-de-do that lasted two weeks one summer. We moved out and rented a different house so she could have her family members and WC friends stay with her. I was miffed we were the ones who had to move, but I suspect it was because Mr. Garden was sick of hearing me complain; he was busy with school and didn't get too involved in the household dynamics. After that The Queen moved out and we moved back to the old house with an entirely different set of people and things were much for the better, especially since no one interfered with MY dog.
You might wonder if this woman ever changed. She did, in fact, marry a likable, happy-go-lucky fellow, who after several years was just like her, and she had become even more egotistically legalistic. (Because legalism, IMO, is not as much "Do it God's way or else" as it is "Do it my way or else").
I did also know sweet, wonderful, kind, honest, sincere folks who were WC, but they either left when LCM ascended to the throne, or changed into legalistic minions of his out of fear.
WG
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Sunesis
Mr. Potato, I use that phrase, because, in-residence, it was exactly the loud-mouthed, extroverted men who attracted the attention of the higher ups - corps coordinators, limb coordinators, etc. Also LCM was like that and he was their example. Although, sometimes the quiet ones were also chosen, and some even unwillingly. But, look at the leadership who were corps, you will see it in action. Most, not all though, top leadership were very arrogant.
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skyrider
rascal......in realistic terms, no, there were NOT two kinds of people in twi or the corps. But your point is very thought-provoking in the sense of twi teachings and black/white mentality.
How often the spearhead of a teaching was driving the point of one or the other.......God vs. devil, truth or error, light or darkness, believing or not believing, genuine or counterfeit, corps or non-corps, etc. Could it be that countless teachings and examples brought us to the point of perceiving a leader or follower choice?
Isn't there a cliche?........."Lead, follow or get out of the way."
Like that scripture, what you LOOK AT, you become........I tend to think that wierwille/martindale and others were always in the spotlight and an imprint (tupos) that registered consciously or subconsciously. Either way, there was no mistake in perception. If you wanted to be "a leader in twi".......then you need to have those qualities. And, what were those "qualities?"..........out-spoken, aggressive, confrontational, adamant, demanding, forceful, etc.
And, that's where the rubber meets the road, sorta speak........a leader was MORE VALUABLE TO GOD than a follower. Maybe it was pushing buttons of ego, or whatever......but why would one "just" follow when God needed so many leaders in this world. Do you have "natural leadership ability?"
The fork in the road was there..........Lead or Follow.
The bride-builder built the bridge.......for others to follow.
The corps program was for leaders......not followers.
Time and time again, during my inresidence "training"..........I would go for quiet walks to get away from THE NOISE. And, in a prayerful way, I would commune with my thoughts and God....pondering the extremes of the "training" AND the lack of other truths that laid silent. Things like......the life and ministry of Jesus, compassion, long-suffering, prayer, adversity, uprightness, individuality, etc.......not just the chest-thumping "we've got the truth" spiel.
Of course, NOW.........I realize that my mind was fighting the INDOCTRINATION which, at given points in time, escalated to wierwille-idolatry. I never believed that wierwille was THE man of God on earth........it just didn't fit in my concept of the One Body where Christ was the head. In so many ways, the corps was railroaded on the tracks of wierwille's life to the undisclosed destination of work camps...........NOT ON THE TRACKS OF THE ONE WHO REDEEMED ME.
<_<
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potato
I'm a female potato :)
you are right about the squeaky wheels. narcissists, the lot of them. my ex, too. he was "corps material" because of his attention-seeking behavior, until we actually made it into residence and he couldn't hold his stuff together. I'm so thankful we got kicked out.
I hate squeaky wheels, and I hated the expectation that I should be one to get listened to. I like living with people who can just dialogue, explaining and listening, you know? didn't happen in twi. we were taught to listen with the ulterior motive to get people BACK ON THE WORD, and usually make them feel like crap in the process.
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