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OldSkool

It's spirits man....lol

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Ok, I love music of all sorts. Cajun Zydeco to Metal to Jazz. Everything except way productions....anyways...

In 1991, in support of their very successful album, Empire, Queensryche performed their epic concept album Operation Mindcrime in it's entirety. I saw this performance live and it remains to this day the absolute best concert I have ever attended. O.K., they perform a song titled Suite Sister Mary where the lead singer for Queensryche (who is a real marvel) let's loose with Pamela Moore who compliments him perfectly. If this 1991 performance wasn't enough, fast forward to 2007 and the two are at it again. This time in a much smaller venue but absolutely incredible nonetheless. Ok...

so I am going on and on, raving to my wife (who shares an office with me) about what a "freak of nature" the two are...and how hardly anyone can still sing as good as they did when 20 years ago and blah, blah, blah...

she laughed and said in sarcastic inflection "It's spirits....that ain't natural....gotta be spirits..." Of course I laughed so hard I had to pause my musical ecstasy long enough to bounce over here and fully share.

1991 ( fast forward to 2:45 and let it play to the guitar solo and again to 6:40 )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQU2JPmH7NE&feature=related

2007 ( fast forward to 2:45 and let it play to the guitar solo and again to 6:45 )

See if you can see when the spirits jump in and out... :anim-smile:

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I remember time, and time, and time (did I mention "Time"?) again, when docvic/ or lcm/ or (insert local "leader" here) picked apart a musical riff/ scale/ arpeggio/ etc., that was so fast and precise that they were CONVINCED that the only way it could be done, was by spirit. Evil spirit (of course). And evil - - - because the performer hadn't taken the class. Their heads were so far up their @** all they could hear was a Bb. If you play music, and think that one through, you'll get it. :)

I remember being at ROA/ other functions (they've all faded into a "oneness" these days)

where docvic played an exceptionally fine piece of guitar work (by whomever),

and then when it was done, he declared the guy "possessed",

complete with a TA DAAAAAAA look on his face, as he gestured toward the screen where the "offending possessed person" was picking.

Docvic wouldn't have known a good guitar lick if it hit him upside the head, NOR did he understand that "practice makes perfect" either.

Well - - - at least not musically speaking. He got the "practice makes perfect" part down in other areas of his life.

I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that if the artist in question had taken the class, that person would've been hailed as "God's chosen".

Those "leaders", and their smardastic comments/ observations thereof (there at Hdqtrs), didn't have a clue (musically speaking).

Edited by dmiller

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I like you and your wife's sense of humor oldskool.

It seems like whenever there is someone with more talent than a wayfer the talented individual is said to be evil and have spirits.

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There were basically two varieties of this.

The first one deals with success and maintained that people like The Beatles, The Stones, etc. were born-again of "the wrong seed". VP said, in the A.C., that in order to achieve that level of success, you have to "sell out' to one God or the other.

The second one deals with individual performances of musical virtuosity. This one was explained with the idea that devil spirits were actually controlling the performer's fingers, hands, voice and so on.

He also said that no one is born with "natural talent" because that would make God a respecter of persons.

Edited by waysider

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It is not so much the artists themselves...but, the guys in the suits behind the scenes. . . . or something like that.

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I like you and your wife's sense of humor oldskool.

It seems like whenever there is someone with more talent than a wayfer the talented individual is said to be evil and have spirits.

Thanks! Really, she caught me off guard with that one. And I laughed till my sides hurt. And I remember the same with talent and spirits. I dunno, to me it's just ignorance on their part and the sad part is it puts people in bondage to not be able to appreciate the hard work that other put in to hone their skills.

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He also said that no one is born with "natural talent" because that would make God a respecter of persons.

But God made us all look different, made some of us shorter than others, made other people physically stronger... Never mind. I'm trying to apply logic again. Silly me. Let me drink some more koolaid and I'll get back to you on this one.

smilie_kool_aid.gif

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There were basically two varieties of this.

The first one deals with success and maintained that people like The Beatles, The Stones, etc. were born-again of "the wrong seed". VP said, in the A.C., that in order to achieve that level of success, you have to "sell out' to one God or the other.

The second one deals with individual performances of musical virtuosity. This one was explained with the idea that devil spirits were actually controlling the performer's fingers, hands, voice and so on.

He also said that no one is born with "natural talent" because that would make God a respecter of persons.

I remember both types vividly. I could never figure out what the angle would be for The Beatles, Stones, etc. were working against the masses. I guess we could sit around and parse their lyrics, or maybe they are repeating some evil not that is hidden amongst their songs that is causing those w/o a healthy backlog of retemories to become possessed over time.... :anim-smile: The Way International has really worked the negative comparisons down to a science in order to SELL, SELL, SELL!!

The spirits controlling body parts is just about the dumbest thing I HAVE ever heard and I heard it much. I can remember telling one of my fellowship coordinators about talented people I admired and he told me in sort of a low breathy voice that they were possessed because it just wasn't natural for them to be able to do such things. It crushed me and I did believe that for a very short time. Then I started thinking for myself. And no place did I ever see such non sense in the scriptures. So I basically began excluding other wayfers from those areas of my life. Entertainment was a big no-no. They were not allowed into my wayfer free sanctum. Hell now I am wayfer free!

But God made us all look different, made some of us shorter than others, made other people physically stronger...

Oh, well those things are a result of the fall of man. Or at least some good ole devil spirit manipulation of the gene pool or something. :smilie_kool_aid: :smilie_kool_aid: :smilie_kool_aid:

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Still thinking, so the koolaid hasn't set in completely yet... and before I drift into that koolaid fog completely:

The whole "devil spirit = talent" and "the only way you can do it is with spiritual help from God" thing when it comes to doing something well is just another way of saying one thing:

THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT YOU

WITHOUT TWI YOU ARE NOTHING, OR WORSE, YOU ARE EVIL.

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Still thinking, so the koolaid hasn't set in completely yet... and before I drift into that koolaid fog completely:

The whole "devil spirit = talent" and "the only way you can do it is with spiritual help from God" thing when it comes to doing something well is just another way of saying one thing:

THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT YOU

WITHOUT TWI YOU ARE NOTHING, OR WORSE, YOU ARE EVIL.

Ye! I think she get's it Mikey!

THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT YOU

Only Victor Paul "Motor Coach" Wierwille, Lloyd Craig "The Forehead" Martindale, and Rosalie Fox "Frau Q-Tip" Rivenbark are special. And yes, according to the way international we are all posessed and operating lying spirits and just think how convenient and manipulative it is to be able to say about your detractors... :smilie_kool_aid:

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(snip)

He also said that no one is born with "natural talent" because that would make God a respecter of persons.

PHPHPHBBBBTTTTT!!!!!

Some of us are born with exceptional IQ potential.

Some of us are born with exceptional musical potential.

Some of us are born with exceptional athletic potential.

Some of us are born into rich families.

Nothing takes the place of hard work, but then ability is always a bonus

no matter what the field is.

None of that makes God a respecter of persons.

Some dogs are born small, some dogs are born huge. Some dogs are friendly but dumb,

some dogs are exceptionally smart for a dog. Some dogs can pull a sled, some dogs

can follow a trail.

None of that makes God a respecter of dogs.

The differences are genetic variation within the species, and the potential passed along

by the parents.

If God interfered with that process, THEN he'd be a respecter of (fill-in-the-blank.)

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In that case,.... Why did I get born differently?

Was a recall issued to all humans with Asperger's Syndrome? How about those with other genetic anomolies? (not all of which are detrimental)

Wasn't there a Giant with the six toes thing going for him? Could he run faster and see further? Oh,... I believe people are born different all the time.

Oh I do so love WordWolf's answer! I might make a little wooden sign for my desk out of that!

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. . .

It seems like whenever there is someone with more talent than a wayfer the talented individual is said to be evil and have spirits.

Yep

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For some reason, this just brings to mind a parallel between TWI and Monty Python's Life of Brian:

BRIAN

You're all individuals!

CROWD (in unison)

YES! WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS!

BRIAN

You're all different!

CROWD

YES! WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT!

MAN IN FRONT

I'm not...

BRIAN

NOW F--- OFF!

Crowd looks puzzled...

MAN#2

How shall we f--- off, O Lord?

BRIAN

Oh, I don't know, JUST GO AWAY!!!!

I totally agree with mudflaps--if the talent wasn't controlled by TWI, it was Eeeeeevil! I still remember LCM's intro to a "Christian comedy" tape that TWI put out in the early 80s. It was just such utter hypocrisy. Instead of ministering to those who might struggle with different religions or lifestyles, it just made fun of them, put them down, or insulted them. Yet somehow that was "godly" (which god, Craig?) and other comedians doing similar things--even against the same people--were "possessed". Sam Kinnison insults homosexuals=devil spirit. TWI does it=good clean family fun!

To me (and this is just my opinion) it makes the most sense if the "no respecter of persons" bit doesn't mean we're all supposed to be identical--any fool can see that we're not. Maybe it means we were all built on the same number of "points". Most of the kids in school could run faster than I could, but I usually did better on tests. Maybe I got ten points moved from Running to IQ. Maybe the people who are both brain surgeons and Olympic athletes pulled some sort of crippling mental problem to balance them out (-15 points Irrational Attraction to Overachievement, or some such.) I don't know. I just think that our differences are what makes the social bond that much stronger and more important. Not everyone has to do everything--that's frightfully redundant!

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Zixar, you definitely ARE a unique and beautiful snowflake.

(and props to the first who can name that movie reference). :anim-smile:

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