WOW

[newlife]

Hi Everyone,

I'm just curious....is there anyone here who were privy to the way leadership chose the destination and the people and leadership you were assigned to for a WOW year?

I really wanted to go to Colorado my wow year and I assigned to Colorado......I didn't know any of the people in my family who had come from various places in the states. And I am very curious about how they chose the branch leaders too.

Does anyone know??

Thanks!!

[waysider]

Hi Everyone,

I'm just curious....is there anyone here who were privy to the way leadership chose the destination and the people and leadership you were assigned to for a WOW year?

I really wanted to go to Colorado my wow year and I assigned to Colorado......I didn't know any of the people in my family who had come from various places in the states. And I am very curious about how they chose the branch leaders too.

Does anyone know??

Thanks!!

It was not by "revelation", if that's what you mean. :B)

[newlife]

What I meant was.....what was the process they went through.....

[waysider]

I've heard it stated by someone in the inner workings of the organization, that, on at least one occasion, WOW assignments were determined by throwing darts at a dart-board.....I'm not joking.

[outandabout]

Maybe they thought that was real spiritual - like God was guiding the darts.

[johniam]

I can only give an idea. We had to write an essay called 'Myself as a wow'. Hopefully nobody got the 'from birth to corps' treatment. Well, in my essay I wrote that I'd hitched to every corner of the country. Don't recall why, but I thought that would impress them. It must have; they sent me to Rolla, MO, not far from the designated geographical center of the USA. Ain't that heaven sent? Wasn't bad.

[Ham]

I can't say that Michigan was heaven sent. I still don't belong here..

[WordWolf]

One poster reported that they thought one staffer got in trouble for

a conversation. He had said they settled differences on which of 2

places to send a group by coin toss.

BTW,

here's a link to a previous WOW thread...

[newlife]

Thanks for your responses. I just am curious as to "how" the process went. There were a lot of people that went WOW the year I did, 3,000. That's a lot of people to send to various places. I was wondering if the limb leaders did made the choice and then submit it to Headquarters for consideration. Like I said, I knew no one in my wow family. Diverse girls from different places with different backgrounds. We all seemed to get a long though. Just putting this in my hands, to decide for people where to send them, I would not know how to do 3,000 people and how leadership was choice. I was in a branch of 7 families that was sent together. And I know most people say that their wow year sucked, but my wow was the best year for me. I had a great deal of fun and the people in the branch were great. Sorry to hear stories from people whose wow years were not that great. But, I just wondered, how did they do this process? If someone has specifics I would love to hear about them. Thanks!!

[WordWolf]

I'm sure there's a thread or 2 where the processes were discussed.

It will take some time to find them, however.

I'll need a few days to find something.

[cman]

by shuffling pictures and who had a car

at least one car per wow family

didn't always work cause twi stole everyone's money

[chockfull]

Thanks for your responses. I just am curious as to "how" the process went. There were a lot of people that went WOW the year I did, 3,000. That's a lot of people to send to various places. I was wondering if the limb leaders did made the choice and then submit it to Headquarters for consideration. Like I said, I knew no one in my wow family. Diverse girls from different places with different backgrounds. We all seemed to get a long though. Just putting this in my hands, to decide for people where to send them, I would not know how to do 3,000 people and how leadership was choice. I was in a branch of 7 families that was sent together. And I know most people say that their wow year sucked, but my wow was the best year for me. I had a great deal of fun and the people in the branch were great. Sorry to hear stories from people whose wow years were not that great. But, I just wondered, how did they do this process? If someone has specifics I would love to hear about them. Thanks!!

newlife,

they did "WOW placements". how? 1) determine numbers 2) determine WOW cities (from strategy, Limb coords lobbying, etc.) 3) interviews (where they would make a recommendation where to send, like "East Coast" for a west coast lifer, etc). 4) placement meetings - put together people in families, etc. 5) finalize

I've heard some tales in placement meetings about flipping coins or darts or something, but mostly just sorting piles out....

[johniam]

If I had to pick wow families, I think it would be easier to trust God to say no, not this person with this family(stuff like that), than it would be to suppose God really needed every wow to be in the "perfect" family situation. There's places in the OT (not sure exactly where) where God told Moses who should be the leader in military placements for each tribe. I'm sure those folks didn't always get along.

[WordWolf]

If I had to pick wow families, I think it would be easier to trust God to say no, not this person with this family(stuff like that), than it would be to suppose God really needed every wow to be in the "perfect" family situation. There's places in the OT (not sure exactly where) where God told Moses who should be the leader in military placements for each tribe. I'm sure those folks didn't always get along.

How about some actual quality control?

If Charles Manson and Jim Jones had completed pfal and came in with completed applications

and the required fees,

they would have been accepted.

Real Christian groups are a LOT more selective about who they accept into programs representing them.

That makes it a LOT easier to avoid disaster than asking for revelation as to whether or not

your "family" got a rapist or child molester.

However,

that is completely NOT what the original poster is asking about.

They asked about the processes that twi used to assign people and locations.

[johniam]

lol Charles Manson and Jim Jones could have been priests somewhere.

[WordWolf]

lol Charles Manson and Jim Jones could have been priests somewhere.

Although no system is 100% foolproof,

reasonable expectations of quality control are to be met.

So, it's highly doubtful either Jones OR Manson would have gotten far

among the MANY steps between "average joe" and "priest."

They wanted to be THE Authority.

Facing the years and years only to start at the bottom of

the authority ladder?

Not worth the effort.

That's why they started their own groups.

That's what people do when they want to use religion to exploit others.

Otherwise, they would have been through the process already described

by dmiller:

It's a VERY complicated subject to deal with, but here's a go at it:

First of all, there are two completely different processes. Becoming diocesan clergy and joining a religious order are very different processes. They also have different missions in life.

Second, there are fundamentally different theologies that highlight the differences between Catholic and (most) Protestant clergy. Only a few Protestant denominations have any kind of religious orders, so that is almost a non-sequitor for comparison.

Keeping that in mind, let me first discuss the process in becoming a member of the Catholic clergy:

The sacrament making a man a member of the clergy in the Catholic Church is called the Sacrament of Holy Orders. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church,

1536 Holy Orders is the sacrament through which the mission entrusted by Christ to his apostles continues to be exercised in the Church until the end of time: thus it is the sacrament of apostolic ministry. It includes three degrees: episcopate, presbyterate, and diaconate.

When one is ordained initially as a deacon, we believe that when one receives the sacrament of Holy Orders, the ordinand receives an imprint upon his soul that cannot be removed. Permanent (if you ever hear of a "former" priest, he isn't...he's either been released from his vows, has been laicized, or has abandoned them, but he is still a priest)

To become a member of the clergy, there is an extended process of formation. For permanent deacons, the process lasts for four years studying several evenings a week while maintaining the day job and increasing the involvement in the ministry in the candidate's parish. For men studying for the priesthood, the process involves at least four years of seminary work (if the person already has a bachelor's degree and required undergrad coursework) and can last as long as eight years.

Seminarians perform a considerable amount of pastoral work when they are not actually in class. They will go to a parish during their time off, may work with chaplains of hospitals, prisons, etc. or may go to mission fields either domestically or overseas to serve. All the while, their supervisor reports on their progress back to the seminary director.

There is also a process of profiling and investigation of candidates. Obviously, since the clergy sex abuse scandals of the late 60s through the early 80s (that went public in 2002 and following), it's obvious that they need to make sure that candidates have the right psychological disposition. As a result, from what I understand, the screening process has been made significantly more rigourous in the past decade or two. (Note: initial indications are that it has been; however, it will be a couple of decades before we know that for sure)

Once a person is ordained, the person receives a stipend for personal support (in our diocese, it's about $12k per year). Food and housing is provided, in the form of a rectory attached to the parish. The clergyman also receives compensation for providing additional services: performing weddings, baptisms, etc. (Note: this compensation is custom, not mandatory and the clergyman may not deny performing the sacrament if the recipient cannot pay). He can also earn extra money through writing books, teaching at high schools or colleges, performing missions (revivals) at other parishes, and in other ways. Note: permanent deacons typically have their own families, houses, and regular jobs. Therefore, there is usually no need to provide them a stipend.

One other thing, once a man has received the Sacrament of Holy Orders, he may not lawfully be married. This is not to say that a married man may not receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders, but once he's received the sacrament, he may no longer get married. In the Eastern Rites (e.g., Byzantine, Coptic, Chaldean, Maronite, Melkite, etc.), married men may receive the sacrament and be admitted into the diaconate and the presbyterate, but not the episcopate. In the Latin Rite, married men may be admitted into the diaconate and, with a dispensation from the Holy See, may be admitted into the presbyterate, but may not be admitted into the episcopate. (Note: a dispensation is routinely granted for men who were previously ordained in the Anglican church and some who were ordained in the Lutheran church and who, following their ordination, converted)

For what I can see, here are the contrasts:

1) Diocesan clergy are intended to serve within a single diocese for their entire lives. Exceptions are made, but they are truly exceptions, not the norm.

2) Diocesan clergy know, up front, that they make a lifetime commitment.

3) Diocesan clergy do not take on additional family responsibilities after their ordination.

4) Diocesan clergy (with the sole exception of permanent deacons) are full-time clergy. They are not expected to work both a full time day job and a full time church job.

Religious Orders (which I believe VPW was really trying to emulate) have a far more stringent process.

First of all, a man or woman who desires to be in a religious order basically has to go through the screening process described above. There is a period of postulation, which normally lasts for about a year. During this period, the person sees what the charism of the religious order is (what they do for a living: teach, work with poor, work with aged, or if they are contemplative). During this postulation period, either the religious superior or the postulant can terminate the relationship at any time. Following the period of postulation, the candidate enters a period of being a novice {Note: that would be the equivalent of in-residence training}. That time lasts for generally two or three years, but, depending on the order, might be as long as seven (I believe the Jesuits are seven years). Again, the vows taken are strictly temporary and the person can honorably leave during or at the end of the novitiate. After the novitiate, the person takes temporary vows (the specific terms vary from order to order). This period of temporary vows is from 4-10 years. You are bound to those vows at that time, but you are also released from those vows at the end of the temporary period. Finally, after that period, you would take your perpetual vows...which are binding until death.

The vows taken by religious brothers and sisters are vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. (Please note: diocesan clergy do not take vows, they make solemn promises of chastity (according to their station in life; i.e., if married, be faithful; if single, be celibate) and obedience. Diocesan clergy can own property. Religious brothers and sisters may not. The difference between solemn promises and vows are that a person can honorably be released from a solemn promise (by the person to whom you made the promise; i.e., the bishop) -- a vow is a bit more difficult to be released.

And, this should be common sense but let me point out: members of religious orders do not have earthly marriages. Men in religious orders who have professed their vows are considered to be married to the Church. Women in religious orders who have professed their vows are consdiered to be married to Christ.

So what's the contrasts here?

1) There is a pretty thorough screening process

2) There are several breakpoints in the process where either side can terminate the relationship

3) The process takes a whole lot longer

4) There is no conflict between family and Church responsibilties: there are no family responsibilities, as you've abandoned all to serve God

5) There is no question about making a lot of money or being (worldly) successful: you've taken a vow of poverty and have given up all you own to serve God

6) There are religious orders that have different charisms (missions). If you don't like one order, go find another order with a different charism. If you go to a contemplative order, you're not going to be told to work in a hospital. If you are in a missionary order, you're not going to be shipped someplace to perform 18 hours of contemplative prayer a day on a recurrant basis.

The other BIG difference is this: a person can be considered to be a fully successful and very spiritual Catholic without becoming a priest or joining a religious order. A person can, particularly in the modern Church, be considered a leader in the Church without becoming a priest or religious.

Were non way corps considered to be fully successful, fully spiritual, etc.? (I seem to recall a certain snootiness among many Way Corps to "joe believers" when I was in. Don't know if that was the case before then or after then)

Hopefully this answered your questions, WW. Sorry for the length, but wanted to make sure to provide a complete answer.

However,

all of this is currently a DISTRACTION

from the absence of quality control in the wow program,

and the question by the original poster concerning

what went on in choosing people and places-

as I already mentioned.

Any reason you want to draw attention from those 2 points?

I think we all know the answer to that one....

[johniam]

So where was the "quality control" when Jesus sent out the 12 two by two...or the 70?

[WordWolf]

So where was the "quality control" when Jesus sent out the 12 two by two...or the 70?

A) Divine revelation. That's underscored by the absence of incidents and complaints

against either the 12 OR the 70. Instead, there's zero complaints and accounts of

them going around, performing miracles, then leaving.

For that matter, that wasn't a full-year program to promote a class.

That was a limited timeframe that ended quickly.

B) Johniam, since you're determined to derail this thread

(THREE, count them, THREE changes of subject IN THE FIRST PAGE

from what the original poster asked)

you should consider a separate thread where you can pose your issue,

and let the original poster have their issue un-derailed.

You've yet to even address the question the original poster asked.

This was deliberate-since it was pointed out already and you haven't stopped.

Frankly, you owe them an apology, but I don't expect you to rise to that level.

Obviously, there's an attempt here to draw attention away from the method

twi used to decide placements of both people and groups in their wow

program.

"You can stay as long as your money holds!"-vpw.

[chockfull]

If I had to pick wow families, I think it would be easier to trust God to say no, not this person with this family(stuff like that), than it would be to suppose God really needed every wow to be in the "perfect" family situation. There's places in the OT (not sure exactly where) where God told Moses who should be the leader in military placements for each tribe. I'm sure those folks didn't always get along.

Well if you judge by the fruit, then there really should not have been any of these WOW/WayD horror stories you hear about. Unfortunately they are more the norm than a "great" year is. So did God tell the leaders wrong?

Or rather is it that God was not working in the leaders at all, and they were faking it through 5 senses activities?

[johniam]

A) Divine revelation. That's underscored by the absence of incidents and complaints

against either the 12 OR the 70. Instead, there's zero complaints and accounts of

them going around, performing miracles, then leaving.

For that matter, that wasn't a full-year program to promote a class.

That was a limited timeframe that ended quickly.

B) Johniam, since you're determined to derail this thread

(THREE, count them, THREE changes of subject IN THE FIRST PAGE

from what the original poster asked)

you should consider a separate thread where you can pose your issue,

and let the original poster have their issue un-derailed.

You've yet to even address the question the original poster asked.

This was deliberate-since it was pointed out already and you haven't stopped.

Frankly, you owe them an apology, but I don't expect you to rise to that level.

Obviously, there's an attempt here to draw attention away from the method

twi used to decide placements of both people and groups in their wow

program.

"You can stay as long as your money holds!"-vpw.

Take another 10 hits of acid WW. Maybe then you'll make sense to me, lol. You're the one who's derailing this thread.

Edited June 20, 2013 by johniam

[waysider]

....is there anyone here who were privy to the way leadership chose the destination and the people and leadership you were assigned to for a WOW year?

Does anyone know??

This is the original question.

[Ham]

Acid? who said Acid? I've been looking for some for a couple decades.. last I knew the real suppliers got busted inside of an abandoned missile silo or something.

If have have any acid left over: forward it to:

The Squirrel

New Knoxville, Ohio.

*they* will know where to send it..

If you offer me morning glory seeds.. well, I will generally spit in your direction.

[WordWolf]

Hi Everyone,

I'm just curious....is there anyone here who were privy to the way leadership chose the destination and the people and leadership you were assigned to for a WOW year?

I really wanted to go to Colorado my wow year and I assigned to Colorado......I didn't know any of the people in my family who had come from various places in the states. And I am very curious about how they chose the branch leaders too.

Does anyone know??

Thanks!!

Found one of the threads where some info on this was posted.

"What was the REAL reason for not telling you where you were going until minutes before-hand?"

[newlife]

WW--Thanks so much for looking that up for me. Interesting isn't it?? Anyone want to add anything to this?

[outandabout]

Maybe it was all screwed up how they picked the WOW families, but I do have to say that on my interim year as a WOW, it turned out that one of my WOW sisters and I were distantly related.