I've been out for 28 years now. Lot's of TWI stuff is gone. That which I've printed off from this site I've decided to keep. That includes the original letters I have from JAL (and others) from 1986 when the "Sh!t hit the fan". The memories of TWI (and CES) are going to remain. It's nice to have (and keep) (imo) reminders of why I was right to decide to leave. Your opinion might vary. In my opinion - - there's alway room on the bookshelf for another "dusty book", but that's just me.
I threw everything out thoughtlessly. I wish I had paid more attention to what I was heaving on the garbage pile because there were some really good things in there. I've actually replaced some of those items. It is a personal thing, however so of course ymmv.
I'm going to download and print or keep on a cd some of those important articles such as : the one from John Judes site on "Believing" and quite a few others. From here there is one that Raf did, I believe, on PFAL and also, I believe he did one on the errors in the Blue Book.
We're presently having a discussion here and the topic of "believing" came up. I couldn't remember all the nuances so I had to go back to the site and get it. If there is a discussion with someone else, face to face and I'm trying to have them understand why the "Law of Believing" is NOT the way to follow, I want to know that I have all of those things at the ready. I want to have access to those things for those who are newly out and are looking for ways to shake loose from twi thinking.
Twinky if you need the space, you need the space. Can you go through some of it to keep out the important documents. The individual threads may not be that important now, but some of the other things might be necessary. For me, I know that I want to be around to warn anybody who's thinking about them, and to help however I can those that want to get out. Having accurate copies of some of this stuff is important to me for that reason. But that's me. You have a totally different life in another place so there's no need to do what I do
Thanks, Krys and Dave. Those are pretty much the conclusions I came to, too. I think as time permits I will sift out and retain any useful articles, and there's probably stuff that I don't need to keep any more that can go into the paper recycling.
Is keeping stuff ... building a monument to an ugly past? Or building a pillar of witness and warning to say, "Don't go here again!"? Or is it something else?
I have a photograph of myself that was taken when I was six or seven years old. I had just broken my arm (for the first time) and was sporting a brand new cast. Should I keep it or let it go?
I haven't made it a point to throw things out, but I continue to find a lot of the things I have kept have a diminishing value, and I need to make room from time to time.
Working on a master's degree at a bona fide theological seminary has focused my attention on broader arguments than those that occupied my concentration while arguing with various people on the former CES website, WayDale and Greasespot.
I'm getting ready to take an elective 3-hour course on the doctrine of the Trinity, which I am looking forward to. Jesus cuts a lot more slack on doctrinal "correctness" than most religious leaders do. To think that Jesus has been the head of his body for the last 1600 years, and hasn't smacked down the doctrine of the trinity, as he could have done at any time if he'd wanted to, is just plain silly.
I don't think Jesus and God are consubstantial, nor that Jesus was "eternally begotten", but I do think that the gift of the Holy Spirit first poured out on the Day of Pentecost is the life force of God, as evidenced by the power to move, heterodyned with the human personality of Jesus Christ. I know my prof will be willing to consider anything I argue well.
That is not the doctrine of the trinity forged by the 4th/5th century councils of the Church, but neither is it the "absent Christ" baloney Wierwille taught.
I've still got a few of the hardback TWI books, like JCOP and JCOPS, but I can't use them because they are not scholarly works, lacking reviews of the literature, citations, and bibliographies.
There was a time when I regretted throwing some things out, but not so much anymore. Do what seems best to you!
I'm OK with just having GSC forums as the storage. I can do a search function here for topics. It seems keeping this site up is not too much of a hardship for Paw, and if it ever does become so, I think we would have enough of a warning to be able to preserve content. I might do something like put together a DVD that has a bunch of articles on it, including content from this site, just in case I see the need to educate a fellow Christian that is unfamiliar with TWI. Paper stuff? I mean I still have my old notes files, which don't have a digital counterpart (and I'm not retyping or scanning them). And like 1 box - that has old TWI books in it out of site out of mind until I need space later. Most of my Biblical studies tools are pretty TWI free right now. Except there is influence - still have a Bullinger Bible - cool appendices, and I still have the Aramaiac works from TWI - some of Charlene's recounting the Research Dept. reflected a ton of genuine Christian heart. But I typically try to throw away paper and replace it with digital format that's easier to store - kind of like why the library takes microfiche pictures and throws out magazines.
I try to approach the chaff topic with a little common sense. But what's common sense to me is not necessarily so for another. There's a cool book on this topic I like by Julie Morganstern - it's here - http://www.amazon.com/SHED-Your-Stuff-Change-Life-ebook/dp/B004DI7T4A/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1388684516&sr=1-1. I like it because she talks about the emotional aspect of "things", and focuses on organization building around the "new" in your life. Not a Bible verse in the book, but IMO it handles the "burn the chaff" topic so much better than all the canned yearly teachings on "Uncle Harry Day" or whatever. Sometimes I feel like good hearted people with good intentions of helping others many times can be so much closer to what seems to me to be the truth of what God is trying to get at in a verse than a hundred idiots with a mic and a religious title.
The first was a PFAL review that tried to explore all the issues raised by the class. Jerry Barrax gets full credit for starting that one.
I came up with the other two: The Blue Book Review was a walk through The Bible Tells Me So, from my perspective. I don't even agree (today) with everything I wrote in that thread (14 or so years ago). But the central idea -- looking at everything and deciding thoughtfully what is right and what is wrong -- is still a good one.
The last one was Actual Errors in PFAL, the ultimate exercise in nitpicking that only existed to prove one single point, namely, that PFAL and other writings of VPW do not live up to their own requirements for what it means for something to be God-breathed.
Today, I would probably not participate in any of those threads, much less start two of them.
Sometimes I feel like good hearted people with good intentions of helping others many times can be so much closer to what seems to me to be the truth of what God is trying to get at in a verse than a hundred idiots with a mic and a religious title.
That sums it up for me as well.
When my wife and I exited twi, I had five or six R-Kive boxes of notes and syllabi. Detailed notes from teachings thru the years....advanced classes, word in business(es), adv. class specials, corps notes galore. When we were on those 'corps night phone hook-ups' one of the corps in our area could type as fast as martindale could talk and we had verbatim notes for those 3 years. Yeah.....I know. Crazy stuff like that.
Chucked 'em all in the trash. Don't need 'em. Don't want 'em. Don't care.
Nor do I care to hold in storage a bunch of stuff dismantling twi doctrine. IMO....if someone has a concern on this, then I simply believe the Lord will open their eyes when the simplicity of truth/Christ is spoken. Sure, there are those steeped in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic jot and tittles that can't see the practical error in twi if their life depended on them.....but the Lord will find a way if they need an exit strategy.
My focus is on the here and now. If my threads and posts help others....great. If not, then at least I'm endeavoring to expose twi's corruption and evil who may someday read GS.
And, besides all that....you guys and gals make this a fun place to hang out.
Good quips, good insight and laughs along the way. Who could ask for anything more?
I threw a lot of things away. I think I kept a few books - ones my father wrote in and gave to me. I need to look through all of my old books - I might have a few syllabuses lurking in a box somewhere. I don't know if I would keep them forever but I think I would like to read through them knowing what I know now.
Recommended Posts
dmiller
I've been out for 28 years now. Lot's of TWI stuff is gone. That which I've printed off from this site I've decided to keep. That includes the original letters I have from JAL (and others) from 1986 when the "Sh!t hit the fan". The memories of TWI (and CES) are going to remain. It's nice to have (and keep) (imo) reminders of why I was right to decide to leave. Your opinion might vary. In my opinion - - there's alway room on the bookshelf for another "dusty book", but that's just me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
I threw everything out thoughtlessly. I wish I had paid more attention to what I was heaving on the garbage pile because there were some really good things in there. I've actually replaced some of those items. It is a personal thing, however so of course ymmv.
I'm going to download and print or keep on a cd some of those important articles such as : the one from John Judes site on "Believing" and quite a few others. From here there is one that Raf did, I believe, on PFAL and also, I believe he did one on the errors in the Blue Book.
We're presently having a discussion here and the topic of "believing" came up. I couldn't remember all the nuances so I had to go back to the site and get it. If there is a discussion with someone else, face to face and I'm trying to have them understand why the "Law of Believing" is NOT the way to follow, I want to know that I have all of those things at the ready. I want to have access to those things for those who are newly out and are looking for ways to shake loose from twi thinking.
Twinky if you need the space, you need the space. Can you go through some of it to keep out the important documents. The individual threads may not be that important now, but some of the other things might be necessary. For me, I know that I want to be around to warn anybody who's thinking about them, and to help however I can those that want to get out. Having accurate copies of some of this stuff is important to me for that reason. But that's me. You have a totally different life in another place so there's no need to do what I do
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Thanks, Krys and Dave. Those are pretty much the conclusions I came to, too. I think as time permits I will sift out and retain any useful articles, and there's probably stuff that I don't need to keep any more that can go into the paper recycling.
Is keeping stuff ... building a monument to an ugly past? Or building a pillar of witness and warning to say, "Don't go here again!"? Or is it something else?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I have a photograph of myself that was taken when I was six or seven years old. I had just broken my arm (for the first time) and was sporting a brand new cast. Should I keep it or let it go?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Each person needs to decide WHAT is worth getting rid of now and what is worth keeping.
With things like GSC content, since it's digital, it's a LOT easier to store a lot of
text as digital, say, than a shelf-full of printed out versions of everything.
I think it's worth it to keep SOME of the content we've posted here, and have kept
some of it- especially stuff I thought was risking deletion by the original posters
or was otherwise hard-to-find. I've thought a lot of stuff I didn't save was WORTH
saving, but I never got around to saving it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve Lortz
I haven't made it a point to throw things out, but I continue to find a lot of the things I have kept have a diminishing value, and I need to make room from time to time.
Working on a master's degree at a bona fide theological seminary has focused my attention on broader arguments than those that occupied my concentration while arguing with various people on the former CES website, WayDale and Greasespot.
I'm getting ready to take an elective 3-hour course on the doctrine of the Trinity, which I am looking forward to. Jesus cuts a lot more slack on doctrinal "correctness" than most religious leaders do. To think that Jesus has been the head of his body for the last 1600 years, and hasn't smacked down the doctrine of the trinity, as he could have done at any time if he'd wanted to, is just plain silly.
I don't think Jesus and God are consubstantial, nor that Jesus was "eternally begotten", but I do think that the gift of the Holy Spirit first poured out on the Day of Pentecost is the life force of God, as evidenced by the power to move, heterodyned with the human personality of Jesus Christ. I know my prof will be willing to consider anything I argue well.
That is not the doctrine of the trinity forged by the 4th/5th century councils of the Church, but neither is it the "absent Christ" baloney Wierwille taught.
I've still got a few of the hardback TWI books, like JCOP and JCOPS, but I can't use them because they are not scholarly works, lacking reviews of the literature, citations, and bibliographies.
There was a time when I regretted throwing some things out, but not so much anymore. Do what seems best to you!
Love,
Steve
Edited by Steve LortzLink to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
I'm OK with just having GSC forums as the storage. I can do a search function here for topics. It seems keeping this site up is not too much of a hardship for Paw, and if it ever does become so, I think we would have enough of a warning to be able to preserve content. I might do something like put together a DVD that has a bunch of articles on it, including content from this site, just in case I see the need to educate a fellow Christian that is unfamiliar with TWI. Paper stuff? I mean I still have my old notes files, which don't have a digital counterpart (and I'm not retyping or scanning them). And like 1 box - that has old TWI books in it out of site out of mind until I need space later. Most of my Biblical studies tools are pretty TWI free right now. Except there is influence - still have a Bullinger Bible - cool appendices, and I still have the Aramaiac works from TWI - some of Charlene's recounting the Research Dept. reflected a ton of genuine Christian heart. But I typically try to throw away paper and replace it with digital format that's easier to store - kind of like why the library takes microfiche pictures and throws out magazines.
I try to approach the chaff topic with a little common sense. But what's common sense to me is not necessarily so for another. There's a cool book on this topic I like by Julie Morganstern - it's here - http://www.amazon.com/SHED-Your-Stuff-Change-Life-ebook/dp/B004DI7T4A/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1388684516&sr=1-1. I like it because she talks about the emotional aspect of "things", and focuses on organization building around the "new" in your life. Not a Bible verse in the book, but IMO it handles the "burn the chaff" topic so much better than all the canned yearly teachings on "Uncle Harry Day" or whatever. Sometimes I feel like good hearted people with good intentions of helping others many times can be so much closer to what seems to me to be the truth of what God is trying to get at in a verse than a hundred idiots with a mic and a religious title.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
There were three critical threads.
The first was a PFAL review that tried to explore all the issues raised by the class. Jerry Barrax gets full credit for starting that one.
I came up with the other two: The Blue Book Review was a walk through The Bible Tells Me So, from my perspective. I don't even agree (today) with everything I wrote in that thread (14 or so years ago). But the central idea -- looking at everything and deciding thoughtfully what is right and what is wrong -- is still a good one.
The last one was Actual Errors in PFAL, the ultimate exercise in nitpicking that only existed to prove one single point, namely, that PFAL and other writings of VPW do not live up to their own requirements for what it means for something to be God-breathed.
Today, I would probably not participate in any of those threads, much less start two of them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
That sums it up for me as well.
When my wife and I exited twi, I had five or six R-Kive boxes of notes and syllabi. Detailed notes from teachings thru the years....advanced classes, word in business(es), adv. class specials, corps notes galore. When we were on those 'corps night phone hook-ups' one of the corps in our area could type as fast as martindale could talk and we had verbatim notes for those 3 years. Yeah.....I know. Crazy stuff like that.
Chucked 'em all in the trash. Don't need 'em. Don't want 'em. Don't care.
Nor do I care to hold in storage a bunch of stuff dismantling twi doctrine. IMO....if someone has a concern on this, then I simply believe the Lord will open their eyes when the simplicity of truth/Christ is spoken. Sure, there are those steeped in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic jot and tittles that can't see the practical error in twi if their life depended on them.....but the Lord will find a way if they need an exit strategy.
My focus is on the here and now. If my threads and posts help others....great. If not, then at least I'm endeavoring to expose twi's corruption and evil who may someday read GS.
And, besides all that....you guys and gals make this a fun place to hang out.
Good quips, good insight and laughs along the way. Who could ask for anything more?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nero
I threw a lot of things away. I think I kept a few books - ones my father wrote in and gave to me. I need to look through all of my old books - I might have a few syllabuses lurking in a box somewhere. I don't know if I would keep them forever but I think I would like to read through them knowing what I know now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.