I still don't understand how, why, a guy I knew very well back in the day has followed Barnard to Washington, and if reports are correct, long ago 'gave' his daughter over to him. It also seems that there's as good a possibility that Barnard is holed up at this guy's house as anyones, which would make for an interesting news day.
After reading the entire document....Why did it take 2 years to issue a warrant? WTF?
There likely have been multiple factors contribute to the delay. Two that I think are likely:
Lazy prosecutor and public accountability.
County attorneys have built-in rationalizations for procrastination. They can (almost) always claim that
they don't believe they have enough evidence to secure a conviction. That was something cited in the Fox 9
news coverage.
And the fact that county attorneys are elected positions, the public pressure brought to bear by the local news
investigation was likely enough to light a fire under his butt.
That said, there are still several obstacles to securing conviction, the first being finding him.
All accounts seem to indicate, however, that VB is one seriously slick operator who probably thinks he can talk his way out
of any jam.
If his closest confidants believe that, maybe they will encourage him to turn himself in and let it play out in court.
I still don't understand how, why, a guy I knew very well back in the day has followed Barnard to Washington, and if reports are correct, long ago 'gave' his daughter over to him. It also seems that there's as good a possibility that Barnard is holed up at this guy's house as anyones, which would make for an interesting news day.
Others who knew VB's wife have been surprised she was not "smart enough" to see through his BS and let him get away with this stuff for so long.
Indications seem to be that "smartness" has nothing to do with any of this.
Got something personal against Brazil? I'm just curious how that idea just dropped
out of nowhere...
It made me think of Dr. Mengele (sp). He hid there from not long after the war until 1979 when he died. Your points about digital trail are well taken, but if VB could get out of the USA he'd have a better shot at avoiding judgment, plus if any small group of people in Brazil still thinks he's a man of God, then they'd try to protect him there. Isn't that (people thinking he's a mog) what enabled him to do everything he did in MN and WA?
While it is possible he has fled to Brazil, where one of his follower's has supported him before, he likely would have had to have left before the charges were filed since he was placed on the watch list after that. It is quite possible he is hiding out on an island off the coast of Washington.
Does anyone know Craig Elmblad? That is the person who answered the door at the address on Barnard's driver license.
Does anyone know if Mark Frontczak has left the group? He was known to have a business in Bellingham last year.
I don't want to run this off-track or initiate a meta discussion but I was bothered by this bit of contradictory information in the article:
"One of the hallmarks of the Way — and, in the beginning, the River Road Fellowship — was the belief that everyone should read and interpret the Bible for themselves, rather than rely on clergy, the inner-circle member said."
While it could be argued that the stated intent of PFAL was to enable the student to come to a self-understanding of the Bible, I think we all know we were supposed to only accept opinions that conformed to Way Theology (opinions that were formed by those who were supposedly "more knowledgeable" than us.).
This point, in my opinion, somewhat explains why Barnard wasn't questioned more closely by his followers.
LOL Waysider, you were not alone in finding that statement out of line. Several others pointed out the fallacy of it in another discussion. I ascribe it to the fact that Vail was young and had not been in TWI long as an adult so he only knew what he had been told.
Got something personal against Brazil? I'm just curious how that idea just dropped
out of nowhere...
It made me think of Dr. Mengele (sp). He hid there from not long after the war until 1979 when he died. Your points about digital trail are well taken, but if VB could get out of the USA he'd have a better shot at avoiding judgment, plus if any small group of people in Brazil still thinks he's a man of God, then they'd try to protect him there. Isn't that (people thinking he's a mog) what enabled him to do everything he did in MN and WA?
I think EVERY country has had someone hide out there at some point or other,
but a reputation for being a refuge for wanted criminals is more a fiction than a
reality for any country. (Running to Brazil is as realistic, today, as running to
Mexico and being shocked when you're caught and extradited. Most countries don't
really look like their media impressions- England is modern, Mexico isn't an old
Western set...)
IF he slipped the net into Brazil, he'd have to live completely "off the grid" and
sponge completely off the followers. That's less likely every year with information
nets getting tighter every year. He's practically be under "house arrest" since he
doesn't speak Portuguese and would stand out quickly between not looking Brazilian
and having a US accent even if he DID try to speak Portuguese.
While it is possible he has fled to Brazil, where one of his follower's has supported him before, he likely would have had to have left before the charges were filed since he was placed on the watch list after that. It is quite possible he is hiding out on an island off the coast of Washington.
Does anyone know Craig Elmblad? That is the person who answered the door at the address on Barnard's driver license.
Does anyone know if Mark Frontczak has left the group? He was known to have a business in Bellingham last year.
He can make a MUCH more successful fade into the background if he stays in the US somewhere,
Randy Roark was the branch coordinator in St. Paul the last year I was a twig coordinator there before entering the Corps. As far as I know, he was the branch coordinator there during the post Passing of a Patriarch break up. Up until I read this article, I had no idea what had become of him or his family...
They were good folk when I knew them... what a sorry, sorry, shameful pass things have come to for them...
Somehow I missed this thread previously! Good points all around.
Victor and Stephanie Barnard and I were in the 14th Corps, not the 12th (as well as his prominent followers Ken and Amy Pacanowski and at least two other followers that I know of). Stephanie was an assistant to V.D. Wierwille the year he died, our interim year, 1985. We graduated in the summer of '86, which is when Victor and Stephanie married. I've heard one theory that Stephanie was not too perturbed by her husband's philandering because she knew how V.D. Wierwille lived his life.
One of Barnard's "Maidens" was a young woman from Brazil who had to go home when her visa expired around 2008. Barnard, enforcing his rule that Maidens had to travel in pairs at all times (a very effective way of keeping them from thinking for themselves, or blabbing to others), sent a series of Maidens to Brazil to be with the Brazilian girl for six months at a time. After about 18 months, and around the time River Road Fellowship blew up in MN and relocated to WA, Barnard flew down to Brazil as well, and may have spent up to six months there before rejoining his flock in Washington. I have no idea how many followers he or his Maidens were able to win down there, but it would be a natural place for him to hide. However, my understanding is that the police are pretty sure he is in the U.S., and probably in Washington, where he has a much larger network of worshipful followers to help him hide.
Here are the top people closest to Barnard that I know of:
Mark and Jean Frontczak are in Bellingham, Washington. Mark allowed Victor to ordain him (wtf?), so it's Rev. Frontczak now. He used to be a big wheel in Bless Patrol at HQ, so presumably he would know a thing or two about security, and possibly about hiding someone from the police. I believe their daughter is one of the Maidens. Mark was one of the people who most vehemently resisted any effort within the group to bring Victor's sins to light or to confront him on his adultery with married women in the group.
There is also a group of seven young women in Bellingham called Auriga's Band, named after a constellation. These women, who are in an all-girl band, are described as just like the Maidens, in the full service of Victor "Christ in the flesh" Barnard.
Pam and Randy Roark are in Spokane. I put her name first because she is said to be extraordinarily close to Barnard, almost certainly one of his "conquests." But Randy was another person Victor ordained. Pam and Randy used to be in the Family Corps and were Branch coordinators in the Twin Cities. TWO of their daughters are Maidens — even though Pam should know what a lech Barnard is, and what service to him entails. I'm told that Randy was bothered by Victor's closeness to Pam (as was Victor's wife Stephanie), and that Victor once said they might have to deliver Randy to Satan. Pam Roark was probably the primary person who organized the Maidens, planned their day, scheduled their cooking and cleaning and sewing duties, as well as their time to attend Victor. If anyone is an accessory to Victor's crimes, Pam Roark would be my chief suspect.
Craig Elmblad is another person Victor ordained who is Spokane. He was never in the Corps but was a younger brother of Judy Bedard, who was an assistant Corps coordinator when we were in the 14th Corps. When Minnesota police went to Washington looking for Victor and knocked on his last known address, Elmblad answered the door and said he had no idea where Victor was.
A fourth person ordained by Victor was Ken Pacanowski, who was married to Amy, both of the 14th Corps, now back in Pennsylvania. He was one of the first people to confront Victor on his adultery, and he has since left the group, though his confrontation appears to have been rather namby-pamby, and he thought it was wrong to go to the authorities about Barnard's alleged crimes.
I don't know what kind of resources the cops have to investigate this case, but I believe if they had a court order and the time and staff to tap the phones of just two or three of the above-mentioned people, it would lead them straight to Barnard before too long.
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Karl Kahler
Ex, I always call him V.D. Wierwille, but yes, we're talking about the same person.
Broken Arrow
I hear you. But history shows over and over again that when you give a person too much power, abuse happens. Barnard can be charming, and charismatic and he understands on some levels how to manipulat
hiway29
I still don't understand how, why, a guy I knew very well back in the day has followed Barnard to Washington, and if reports are correct, long ago 'gave' his daughter over to him. It also seems that there's as good a possibility that Barnard is holed up at this guy's house as anyones, which would make for an interesting news day.
Edited by hiway29Link to comment
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johniam
I bet he's in Brazil, a country with a history of harboring fugitives.
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excathedra
i tried reading the complaint but i can't right now
oh what a surprise
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Rocky
There likely have been multiple factors contribute to the delay. Two that I think are likely:
Lazy prosecutor and public accountability.
County attorneys have built-in rationalizations for procrastination. They can (almost) always claim that
they don't believe they have enough evidence to secure a conviction. That was something cited in the Fox 9
news coverage.
And the fact that county attorneys are elected positions, the public pressure brought to bear by the local news
investigation was likely enough to light a fire under his butt.
That said, there are still several obstacles to securing conviction, the first being finding him.
All accounts seem to indicate, however, that VB is one seriously slick operator who probably thinks he can talk his way out
of any jam.
If his closest confidants believe that, maybe they will encourage him to turn himself in and let it play out in court.
Others who knew VB's wife have been surprised she was not "smart enough" to see through his BS and let him get away with this stuff for so long.
Indications seem to be that "smartness" has nothing to do with any of this.
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excathedra
come on now dotsie was smart too
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WordWolf
This is 2014. Every year, it gets harder to travel from country to country
without leaving a digital trail. If he flew out of the US, then there is documentation
of when and where he left, and details of the plane tickets, etc.
More likely, he's hiding in the US with his head down. There's so many things he would
need to do to hide in Brazil- like SPEAK PORTUGUESE, and get currency- which is a good
trick if you can't present ID and can't access an account in your name to do it.
Hiding in the US, he can sponge off his adherents and keep his head down. Frankly,
it's no different than how Osama Bin Laden managed to hide as long as he did.
Got something personal against Brazil? I'm just curious how that idea just dropped
out of nowhere...
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Rocky
Apparently, VB has followers in and from Brazil.
-----
New news, an additional report from Fox9.
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WordWolf
Oh. So, IF he could leave the country and somehow get there without being tracked,
he could sponge off of them. That gives a reason to think he'd WANT to hide there.
It's not like that's the country of refugees, it's the country where he has assets.
But the first point of "wanted criminals can't just buy plane tickets, go through
customs, and be ignored" still applies.
Interesting story you linked to-although hardly shocking by now based on what we
already knew about the guy.
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Rocky
Certainly not shocking at this point. Btw, I didn't post that to contradict you.
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waysider
Regardless of where he is, it's just a matter of time. Karma is a mean old lady.
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johniam
quote:
Got something personal against Brazil? I'm just curious how that idea just dropped
out of nowhere...
It made me think of Dr. Mengele (sp). He hid there from not long after the war until 1979 when he died. Your points about digital trail are well taken, but if VB could get out of the USA he'd have a better shot at avoiding judgment, plus if any small group of people in Brazil still thinks he's a man of God, then they'd try to protect him there. Isn't that (people thinking he's a mog) what enabled him to do everything he did in MN and WA?
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HAPe4me
Here is a good summary of the history of the group.
http://www.startribune.com/local/256845191.html?page=all&prepage=1&c=y#continue
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HAPe4me
While it is possible he has fled to Brazil, where one of his follower's has supported him before, he likely would have had to have left before the charges were filed since he was placed on the watch list after that. It is quite possible he is hiding out on an island off the coast of Washington.
Does anyone know Craig Elmblad? That is the person who answered the door at the address on Barnard's driver license.
Does anyone know if Mark Frontczak has left the group? He was known to have a business in Bellingham last year.
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waysider
I don't want to run this off-track or initiate a meta discussion but I was bothered by this bit of contradictory information in the article:
"One of the hallmarks of the Way — and, in the beginning, the River Road Fellowship — was the belief that everyone should read and interpret the Bible for themselves, rather than rely on clergy, the inner-circle member said."
While it could be argued that the stated intent of PFAL was to enable the student to come to a self-understanding of the Bible, I think we all know we were supposed to only accept opinions that conformed to Way Theology (opinions that were formed by those who were supposedly "more knowledgeable" than us.).
This point, in my opinion, somewhat explains why Barnard wasn't questioned more closely by his followers.
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HAPe4me
LOL Waysider, you were not alone in finding that statement out of line. Several others pointed out the fallacy of it in another discussion. I ascribe it to the fact that Vail was young and had not been in TWI long as an adult so he only knew what he had been told.
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WordWolf
I think EVERY country has had someone hide out there at some point or other,
but a reputation for being a refuge for wanted criminals is more a fiction than a
reality for any country. (Running to Brazil is as realistic, today, as running to
Mexico and being shocked when you're caught and extradited. Most countries don't
really look like their media impressions- England is modern, Mexico isn't an old
Western set...)
IF he slipped the net into Brazil, he'd have to live completely "off the grid" and
sponge completely off the followers. That's less likely every year with information
nets getting tighter every year. He's practically be under "house arrest" since he
doesn't speak Portuguese and would stand out quickly between not looking Brazilian
and having a US accent even if he DID try to speak Portuguese.
He can make a MUCH more successful fade into the background if he stays in the US somewhere,
even if it's an island of the mainland US.
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Steve Lortz
Randy Roark was the branch coordinator in St. Paul the last year I was a twig coordinator there before entering the Corps. As far as I know, he was the branch coordinator there during the post Passing of a Patriarch break up. Up until I read this article, I had no idea what had become of him or his family...
They were good folk when I knew them... what a sorry, sorry, shameful pass things have come to for them...
Love,
Steve
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Karl Kahler
Somehow I missed this thread previously! Good points all around.
Victor and Stephanie Barnard and I were in the 14th Corps, not the 12th (as well as his prominent followers Ken and Amy Pacanowski and at least two other followers that I know of). Stephanie was an assistant to V.D. Wierwille the year he died, our interim year, 1985. We graduated in the summer of '86, which is when Victor and Stephanie married. I've heard one theory that Stephanie was not too perturbed by her husband's philandering because she knew how V.D. Wierwille lived his life.
One of Barnard's "Maidens" was a young woman from Brazil who had to go home when her visa expired around 2008. Barnard, enforcing his rule that Maidens had to travel in pairs at all times (a very effective way of keeping them from thinking for themselves, or blabbing to others), sent a series of Maidens to Brazil to be with the Brazilian girl for six months at a time. After about 18 months, and around the time River Road Fellowship blew up in MN and relocated to WA, Barnard flew down to Brazil as well, and may have spent up to six months there before rejoining his flock in Washington. I have no idea how many followers he or his Maidens were able to win down there, but it would be a natural place for him to hide. However, my understanding is that the police are pretty sure he is in the U.S., and probably in Washington, where he has a much larger network of worshipful followers to help him hide.
Here are the top people closest to Barnard that I know of:
Mark and Jean Frontczak are in Bellingham, Washington. Mark allowed Victor to ordain him (wtf?), so it's Rev. Frontczak now. He used to be a big wheel in Bless Patrol at HQ, so presumably he would know a thing or two about security, and possibly about hiding someone from the police. I believe their daughter is one of the Maidens. Mark was one of the people who most vehemently resisted any effort within the group to bring Victor's sins to light or to confront him on his adultery with married women in the group.
There is also a group of seven young women in Bellingham called Auriga's Band, named after a constellation. These women, who are in an all-girl band, are described as just like the Maidens, in the full service of Victor "Christ in the flesh" Barnard.
Pam and Randy Roark are in Spokane. I put her name first because she is said to be extraordinarily close to Barnard, almost certainly one of his "conquests." But Randy was another person Victor ordained. Pam and Randy used to be in the Family Corps and were Branch coordinators in the Twin Cities. TWO of their daughters are Maidens — even though Pam should know what a lech Barnard is, and what service to him entails. I'm told that Randy was bothered by Victor's closeness to Pam (as was Victor's wife Stephanie), and that Victor once said they might have to deliver Randy to Satan. Pam Roark was probably the primary person who organized the Maidens, planned their day, scheduled their cooking and cleaning and sewing duties, as well as their time to attend Victor. If anyone is an accessory to Victor's crimes, Pam Roark would be my chief suspect.
Craig Elmblad is another person Victor ordained who is Spokane. He was never in the Corps but was a younger brother of Judy Bedard, who was an assistant Corps coordinator when we were in the 14th Corps. When Minnesota police went to Washington looking for Victor and knocked on his last known address, Elmblad answered the door and said he had no idea where Victor was.
A fourth person ordained by Victor was Ken Pacanowski, who was married to Amy, both of the 14th Corps, now back in Pennsylvania. He was one of the first people to confront Victor on his adultery, and he has since left the group, though his confrontation appears to have been rather namby-pamby, and he thought it was wrong to go to the authorities about Barnard's alleged crimes.
I don't know what kind of resources the cops have to investigate this case, but I believe if they had a court order and the time and staff to tap the phones of just two or three of the above-mentioned people, it would lead them straight to Barnard before too long.
Cheers to all,
Karl
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Steve Lortz
Thanks, Karl. The sooner the police get him, the better.
Love,
Steve
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excathedra
when you say stephanie was an assistant to V.D. wierwille, do you mean v.p. wierwille?
Mark and Jean Frontczak oh christ i was in the way corps with them they seemed like good people damn it all
i think i'll call them if i can find their #
their latest number has been disconnected
i really had no idea these people were following another lunatic
it's so horrible these "young maidens" how could they
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WordWolf
It may have been a typo.
Then again, I don't know if vpw had a venereal disease.
Knowing him, it was possible.
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waysider
For what it's worth
A some point, all female Corps applicants were required to submit results of STD testing. I don't recall the year this began.
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Karl Kahler
Ex, I always call him V.D. Wierwille, but yes, we're talking about the same person.
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excathedra
any word?
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