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Was in TWI from 1972 to 1977. Got into TWI while in the Navy and home ported outa Norfolk,VA; given the proximety, I became a state ambassador for N.Carolina when I got outa the Navy. I went international WOW in 1974 and was sent to Oshkosh, WI, my branch leader was 4th Corp (interim year). I stayed in Wisconsin and was in the state ambassador program. I went on to join the U.S. Army in 1980 and just retired from military service (Army) in 2012 (yes, long military carreer/Lifer). I have been following the work of STF (TLTF) for a few years now; my primary interest is in the reading of their New Testament work, the REV. I am just learning my way to navigate around this site, so appogies for any double postings.

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Welcome, MRAP. You'll find a WIDE variety of opinion here, some friendly to TWI/CES/STFI/TLTF, some critical and some quite hostile. Some of us have remained with offshoots. Some of us have joined mainstream Christian churches. Some of us (myself included) have abandoned religion altogether.

What binds us here is a shared history and a shared concern for those who are still in TWI who think leaving is the worst thing that could happen. We're here to show it is not. We left. We thrived.

Feel free to poke around, revive old threads and see if anyone bites.

Nice to see a new face around here.

I bid you peace.

Raf

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Thanks Raf, I believe that you understand my intentions for wanting to joint GSC. Prior to joining I had read through alot of the threads (and reread to ensure I understood the intent/s)

There are alot of knowledgable folks on the site and I need to ferret out as much fact, opinion and hopefully, some truth as I am on my search for the best source of that ever ellusive thing: truth. I have a pretty thick skin (37 years military and have been chastised by a few generals in fact) so I hope that no one holds anything back - not going to hurt my feelings. I used to, and probably still do, look up to the opinions of the WOW field folks, Corp, etc. I really want to hear some feedback on JS's research (REV)and JAL's teachings/books, etc. Just because you have chosen your current path Raf, it does not mean that I would not appreciate your op-ed. I suppose that if I have a consideration on a portion of the REV then it is best to start a forum thread: yes/no?

I appologize (again) for not being familiar with the replying functions of this sight, BUT, I will learn it and if it ain't fast enough, you (all) can go ballistic on me (a certain amount of chastisement has always helped me grow and learn - it's just a military thing). No, it's different than a TWI chastisement thing; the military wants thinking leaders.

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There's a wide variety of opinions represented here.

A lot of posters have moved on to other things.

I consider them GSC success stories.

A few people have portrayed the GSC as a place where unpopular points of view

result immediately in a dog-pile on the unpopular poster.

I think it's true there's strong opinions in every direction, but painting

that as a knee-jerk attack is both lazy thinking and a smear campaign

meant to make dissenters feel better if they say something truly inflammatory

and everyone replies and disagrees strongly.

Some of us are still willing to discuss things we disagree with, providing we

can make something resembling a respectful discussion on it.

Feel free to give it a shot.

Oh, and hello. Welcome aboard.

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There's a wide variety of opinions represented here.

A lot of posters have moved on to other things.

I consider them GSC success stories.

A few people have portrayed the GSC as a place where unpopular points of view

result immediately in a dog-pile on the unpopular poster.

I think it's true there's strong opinions in every direction, but painting

that as a knee-jerk attack is both lazy thinking and a smear campaign

meant to make dissenters feel better if they say something truly inflammatory

and everyone replies and disagrees strongly.

Some of us are still willing to discuss things we disagree with, providing we

can make something resembling a respectful discussion on it.

Feel free to give it a shot.

Sorry Word Wolf (nice handle, are you really a wolf for the word?) but I don't think folks here really care about the word anymore, they just want to bitch about the old times. I realize this is a site primarily for healing but is there any interest in discussing word things? In all my research reading and re-reading numerous old threads I thought that I read through all the anger and thinking there was a desire for the word. I think that I was wrong but I hope I was wrong in that thinking. I have no intent to judge (like I have that in my bag of tricks) - if this site is what it is, then that's how it will end: Bitch Site, spewing your heart is not necessarily a healing process. I love my s&b's and I invite them.

Oh, and hello. Welcome aboard.

Sorry Word Wolf (nice handle, are you really a wolf for the word?) but I don't think folks here really care about the word anymore, they just want to bitch about the old times. I realize this is a site primarily for healing but is there any interest in discussing word things? In all my research reading and re-reading numerous old threads I thought that I read through all the anger and thinking there was a desire for the word. I think that I was wrong but I hope I was wrong in that thinking. I have no intent to judge (like I have that in my bag of tricks) - if this site is what it is, then that's how it will end: Bitch Site, spewing your heart is not necessarily a healing process. I love my s&b's and I invite them.

It's on the house. Welcome aboard......

cup_of_coffee_by_gigabeto-d70ocl3.png

Edited by MRAP

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Sorry Word Wolf (nice handle, are you really a wolf for the word?)

Yes, but I would ask you write it as one word ("WordWolf")

and I would capitalize "The Word.")

but I don't think folks here really care about the word anymore,

The vast majority of Christians who have been through here have moved on with

their lives-which is why I consider their exits "success stories."

Also, if you want to discuss "The Word", you'll want to do it more here in

"Doctrinal" because the fora as a whole is NOT meant as any sort of

Christian anything. It's here so people can recover from twi or learn

about twi so they don't NEED to get in, get out, and recover.

To limit those discussions to Christians would limit their usefulness.

Also, we have a long history of people who show up and immediately begin

proselytizing. That never seems to go well.

they just want to bitch about the old times. I realize this is a site primarily for healing but is there any interest in discussing word things?

There's still a little interest.

"About the Way", in particular, will be where you find posters who "want to bitch about the old times."

So, if you don't want to, don't hang out there.

"Doctrinal" is where you'd want to try.

In all my research reading and re-reading numerous old threads I thought that I read through all the anger and thinking there was a desire for the word. I think that I was wrong but I hope I was wrong in that thinking.

People don't come here for that-they leave twi and the GSC for that.

Some people here are still open to it-they just don't come here for it.

I have no intent to judge (like I have that in my bag of tricks) - if this site is what it is, then that's how it will end: Bitch Site, spewing your heart is not necessarily a healing process. I love my s&b's and I invite them.

Ever consider the possibility that you've already passed

judgement before announcing you're not here to judge?

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Ever consider the possibility that you've already passed

judgement before announcing you're not here to judge?

Key reflection. Glad you posted it, WordWolf.

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Welcome........

I came here when I didn't know what else to do or where to go. It was and has been a healing effect on my life because I had to talk with people who came from where I came from. I found out I wasn't the only one to have gone through or experienced what I did in TWI. That there were people who understood, who I could relate to, and it became a place of healing for me. People were kind, were reaching out to help me to heal.......and Honestly, I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't come here. For me, it was a God deal to find this sight.

You'll find all kinds of posts from all kinds of people here. My phrase is, "Take what you want, and leave the rest". Meaning some posts are positive, and some posts still help me or impact me in a certain way. Others are ones I stop reading or I never read. I've learned who I want to have input in my life. I love God, and I love His Word!! I never stopped my relationship with Him at all. And today, My relationship with Him, my life, has never been better......I give praise to Him.

So, that has been my experience at GSC.......

Welcome and Hope you will find some people to connect with that you are looking for to have an exchange in conversation.

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The issue you will find here is that most of the regular posters believe that TWI and all the offshoots are cults which generally colors our comments.

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Welcome........

I came here when I didn't know what else to do or where to go. It was and has been a healing effect on my life because I had to talk with people who came from where I came from. I found out I wasn't the only one to have gone through or experienced what I did in TWI. That there were people who understood, who I could relate to, and it became a place of healing for me. People were kind, were reaching out to help me to heal.......and Honestly, I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't come here. For me, it was a God deal to find this sight.

You'll find all kinds of posts from all kinds of people here. My phrase is, "Take what you want, and leave the rest". Meaning some posts are positive, and some posts still help me or impact me in a certain way. Others are ones I stop reading or I never read. I've learned who I want to have input in my life. I love God, and I love His Word!! I never stopped my relationship with Him at all. And today, My relationship with Him, my life, has never been better......I give praise to Him.

So, that has been my experience at GSC.......

Welcome and Hope you will find some people to connect with that you are looking for to have an exchange in conversation.

Thanks NewLife

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The issue you will find here is that most of the regular posters believe that TWI and all the offshoots are cults which generally colors our comments.

So TZaia, is it really that hard for folks to look beyond themselves and not see something "possibly" new in the word. What I find exciting in this new age of immediate access is the access to Biblical research and so much "old" stuff is available; I do think that the REV has opportunity to open doors into understanding the Bible. Some of it in the REV is very controversial and I want to hear from folks who are in the same hunt as I and are willing to read those portions of the REV commentary and give a comment of their own. My thought on this, to make the inquirey in the GSC, was that I would entertain the comments of learned folks, i.e., old corp, etc. Now I see, that there is opposition to any reaserchest who had roots in TWI so I must take all of that into account. So, for all readers, if you have a bias against a researchest, can you make an unbiased comment?

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MRAP, respectfully, it's a tad condescending to come onto a board where you don't know people and assume you know more about our journeys than you do. Is it hard for us to look beyond ourselves...? What a backhanded insult! (Yes it is). Can we see something new in the word? Gee, none of us ever thought of that until you came along! You came here expecting us to be something and, upon learning we are not what you expected, you have done nothing but berate us for not fitting the mold you presumed for us.

Well, sorry to disappoint you. Nonetheless, if you actually want to talk about the things you say you want to discuss, some of us would be more than happy to approach your questions from a variety of perspectives.

And if you don't like our approaches, please bear this in mind: we didn't ask you. We think for ourselves around here. We don't get pushed around by military, police, reverends, fathers, brothers, elders, imams, yogis or booboos.

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Some of it in the REV is very controversial and I want to hear from folks who are in the same hunt as I and are willing to read those portions of the REV commentary and give a comment of their own. My thought on this, to make the inquiry in the GSC, was that I would entertain the comments of learned folks, i.e., old corp, etc.

If you think there is something of particular interest, why not post that section in Doctrinal and invite comments?

Don't slam anyone who points out where it is apparently incorrect or inappropriate or doesn't keep some other principle in mind. You might even find some who find that your chosen passage is "new light."

If you want to learn, to discuss, to make enquiry, then keep your own mind open to change.

Most of us, however, have had enough of people who dissect the Bible and point out minutiae of supposed word meanings, without there being some resulting actions (ie, it's not enough to know a dozen words for being kind or compassionate, if ultimately there is no kindness or compassion in the way you treat people).

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My thought on this, to make the inquiry in the GSC, was that I would entertain the comments of learned folks, i.e., old corp, etc. Now I see, that there is opposition to any reaserchest who had roots in TWI so I must take all of that into account. So, for all readers, if you have a bias against a researchest, can you make an unbiased comment?

Your assumption here is a false one. While I'm sure there are some who dismiss any research coming from a TWI background, there are others -- a majority, I think -- who evaluate arguments on their merits, not basing our conclusions on the source. Though I am no longer a believer, there was a time I went to great lengths to sort out what was taught in TWI and considered whether it was Biblically accurate or not. My conclusions were highly debatable (and hotly debated), but my goal was pure and appreciated even by those who disagreed with me. It had nothing to do with the source of various teachings (I focused on Wierwille). I never rejected a doctrine because it came from CES/STFI, or from any of the other various offshoots, or even from TWI itself. And I think I speak for many people on GSC, perhaps even a majority, on that point.

If you accept the Bible as God's word, you are obliged to accept or reject a doctrine based solely on its conformity to the Bible, regardless of who taught it.

Even with my present beliefs (or unbelief), I find it possible to weigh whether a doctrine is Biblically consistent. The only difference is, I no longer make the leap from "Biblically accurate" to "true." If you do, that's good for you. I don't.

Would you be able to accept my views on what the Bible actually says, knowing that I do not believe Yahweh exists? In other words, if you have a bias against my position, can you make an unbiased comment about the conclusions I reach concerning the Biblical accuracy of certain statements and doctrines?

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BTW,

I think the bigger assumption is that it's all ex-corp here.

I don't know where people GET that idea- I keep hearing people thinking I was ex-corp

or like a Limb coordinator or something. (I keep finding that amusing,

in the context of my experience in twi.)

There's a number of posters who are Christian who believe some, much or most

of what was taught in twi. Most of them condemn vpw for the things he did when

he wasn't teaching those, or how he lied about how he came up with them when it's

obvious he got almost everything he taught from a handful of other Christians,

and so on. ("For the things he did" is me being very tactful about everything

that falls into that category. Start a thread asking about vpw in "About the Way"

if you want the sordid details or a sordid summary. If he matters to you.)

I for one am disappointed with the conduct of many people who claim vpw is some

sort of important person to them, and consider twi doctrine sacrosanct.

Often, they behave badly while condemning the behavior of those they disagree with-

which is often much milder while they condemn it.

I've been impressed with how some people have been able to participate in discussions

on their own merits and with their own rules while keeping from derailing the discussion

with their own opinions. (I'm thinking of Oakspear, who has participated in discussions

about doctrines from a position of internal consistency-as in "does the Bible seem to

actually say this, does the Bible agree with this" without getting into "should the

Bible say this" or "I don't care what the Bible says." Providing, of course, it was a

Doctrinal discussion and that approach was what was needed to advance the discussion.)

Naturally, not everyone CAN participate like that, but most of the people who CAN'T,

aren't posting here now.

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Most of the people who CAN aren't posting here now either.

Most of the people have put it behind them. Years ago.

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The last of my study, dissecting, and debate took place over 13 years ago. Before that, I started the Biblical Unitarian site (which was my major area of study). I simply have no need or desire to go there anymore. Ironically, that came about after spending a weekend at an event called a "Great Banquet" where I came to the conclusion that after all that study, I had no relationship. Once I worked on the relationship, I came to the conclusion that I didn't like my fundamentalist beliefs. Now I'm not too sure I want or need the beliefs at all because I really don't like how they manifest in everyday life.

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You started the Biblical Unitarian site? Kudos! That was good work.

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I did. I did some of the earliest posts. Then CES wanted the name and was going to do something completely different with it, but I insisted on the format of putting all the work out there and it would be edited by me. Then they screwed me over on my level of input.

The other thing I did was lead CES away from the Body Soul Spirit image-of-god TWI thing. No credit for that, tho.

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MRAP, respectfully, it's a tad condescending to come onto a board where you don't know people and assume you know more about our journeys than you do. Is it hard for us to look beyond ourselves...? What a backhanded insult! (Yes it is). Can we see something new in the word? Gee, none of us ever thought of that until you came along! You came here expecting us to be something and, upon learning we are not what you expected, you have done nothing but berate us for not fitting the mold you presumed for us.

Well, sorry to disappoint you. Nonetheless, if you actually want to talk about the things you say you want to discuss, some of us would be more than happy to approach your questions from a variety of perspectives.

And if you don't like our approaches, please bear this in mind: we didn't ask you. We think for ourselves around here. We don't get pushed around by military, police, reverends, fathers, brothers, elders, imams, yogis or booboos.

Raf, who asked you, who asked any of you? Does longevity on this site provide some sort of seniority or privilidge? If I remember, going way back in the readings of forum threads, were not JS and JAL accussed of having this started and then berated for not responding to inquirees?

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BTW,

I think the bigger assumption is that it's all ex-corp here.

I don't know where people GET that idea- I keep hearing people thinking I was ex-corp

or like a Limb coordinator or something. (I keep finding that amusing,

in the context of my experience in twi.)

There's a number of posters who are Christian who believe some, much or most

of what was taught in twi. Most of them condemn vpw for the things he did when

he wasn't teaching those, or how he lied about how he came up with them when it's

obvious he got almost everything he taught from a handful of other Christians,

and so on. ("For the things he did" is me being very tactful about everything

that falls into that category. Start a thread asking about vpw in "About the Way"

if you want the sordid details or a sordid summary. If he matters to you.)

I for one am disappointed with the conduct of many people who claim vpw is some

sort of important person to them, and consider twi doctrine sacrosanct.

Often, they behave badly while condemning the behavior of those they disagree with-

which is often much milder while they condemn it.

I've been impressed with how some people have been able to participate in discussions

on their own merits and with their own rules while keeping from derailing the discussion

with their own opinions. (I'm thinking of Oakspear, who has participated in discussions

about doctrines from a position of internal consistency-as in "does the Bible seem to

actually say this, does the Bible agree with this" without getting into "should the

Bible say this" or "I don't care what the Bible says." Providing, of course, it was a

Doctrinal discussion and that approach was what was needed to advance the discussion.)

Naturally, not everyone CAN participate like that, but most of the people who CAN'T,

aren't posting here now.

You are quite right WordWolf, I made an assumption that there were alot of ex-corp here and thus, had expectations of some Biblical insight; that was a very bad assumption. So, are there alot of old/ex corp on this site?

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Seniority doesn't confer privileges here. Manners do. Tact does. You are lacking in both. Stop getting mad at us for pointing it out and start accepting responsibility for the tone you are setting. The problem is not everyone else. You're rude. A diverse group of people who are accustomed to disagreeing with each other on a variety of issues are all quickly reaching the same conclusion. That's not an accident

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