When they DID have access they were to make copies of parts to hang in their houses, and they were to talk about what they heard when the scriptures were being read. THEY WERE TO DO THEIR BEST to get God's Word flowing in their minds, SO THAT they could love Him.
God gave a simple commandment to simple people so they could simply love Him via His Word. We can do better with Bibles.
Sounds like you are still trying to rationalize/justify your apparent bibliolatry.
Which means you (again) seem to completely miss Charity's point. Though others apparently DID get it.
So, to you, walking in love equates to what the Pharisees did? Knowing scriptures (and collaterals) better than anyone else and self-righteously flaunting that knowledge?
I don't know why you think that way. I always read your posts.
There are so many comments directed at me that there is no way to respond to them all.
So, mentioning your name gets your attention - who knew?
You seem to have missed the context in which I cited Deut 6.
Yeah, I guess you could say I sort of did in a kind of way. I was thinking more about the opening verses you quoted which spoke of the commandments, statues and judgments of God.
The oxymoronic notion of "bible idolatry" had come up, so I asked how else can we love God, but by loving His Word.
Your words above sound Christian-like Mike, but they are merely a private interpretation based on how you inaccurately paraphrased Deut 6:1-12 in an earlier post. ("Paraphrasing: You love God by loving His words and saturating your life with them.")
These verses do not say anything about loving His "words." Like Nathan_Jr’s post highlighted to me, verse 5 (which is about loving God) is sandwiched between verses 1-3 about “observing, keeping and obeying” God’s commands and verses 6-25 commanding that these words of his statues be in their hearts.
God gave natural men, in Deut 6, a formula for loving Him by loving His words. That is how we who have the spirit must start also. How many loved seeing Romans 10:9 and got the spirit that way?
Your use of the non-Biblical word "formula" sounds so like vp. He reduced the manifestations of the holy spirit in 1 Cor 12 to "the great principle."
You seemed to imply that me citing Deut 6 was a mistake, because those people failed at it eventually. But Jesus cited it also as the greatest commandment. You're not going to think that Jesus was in error also, are you? He might be reading this, so think carefully.
I didn't imply anything - I quoted Rom 7:4 in response to your quote of Deut 6:1-12 which talked of the law. Romans 7:4 is about becoming dead to the law for the letter (of the law) kills in contrast to the spirit which gives life. So, strike the rest of that paragraph.
Deut 6 gives us the HOW to love God with our mind.
No, it gives Israel the instructions of how to love God. But you did quote 1 John 5:1-3 which clearly states, “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments" but not that "loving God is to love God's Word." However, you did used those verses to support your private interpretation that you love God by loving His words.
I suggest reading Psalm 119 where each verse is about David’s desire to walk in, keep, respect, learn, take heed, hide in his heart, declare, rejoice/meditate/delight in and not forget God’s law, testimonies, ways, precepts, statutes, commandments, judgments and word. And that's just in the first 16 verses out of 176 of them! It's quite amazing to read through them all. God's point: David's love for His Word was always attached to obeying it with his whole heart.
Throughout large portions of history, the common man has experienced widespread illiteracy. Even today, illiteracy exists, often by forced edicts. Equating words with books is a false comparison. Yes, books often contain words and words often define the content of books. So what? Apples contain juice. Juice is found in oranges. Are apples oranges? When someone has an inordinate fixation or obsession for books in general or a specific collection of books, regardless of whether the books contain words, as some books are exclusively visual in nature, we call that...bibliolatry.
When they DID have access they were to make copies of parts to hang in their houses, and they were to talk about what they heard when the scriptures were being read. THEY WERE TO DO THEIR BEST to get God's Word flowing in their minds, SO THAT they could love Him.
God gave a simple commandment to simple people so they could simply love Him via His Word. We can do better with Bibles.
1 hour ago, waysider said:
Throughout large portions of history, the common man has experienced widespread illiteracy. Even today, illiteracy exists, often by forced edicts. Equating words with books is a false comparison. Yes, books often contain words and words often define the content of books. So what? Apples contain juice. Juice is found in oranges. Are apples oranges? When someone has an inordinate fixation or obsession for books in general or a specific collection of books, regardless of whether the books contain words, as some books are exclusively visual in nature, we call that...bibliolatry.
Speaking of illiteracy, Mike seems to think the reading ability back in Deuteronomy days was equal to contemporary times. How else would the Jews copy passages from the scrolls and hang them in their homes? How else would they become "bible freaks"?
Mike, there wasn't a bible on public display until it was well into book form, sometime way After the Common Era. So how were they able to be "bible freaks" with no bible to freak with?
Also, Mike, note that your Deuteronomy quote does not say "saturate your life with God's words", it too, like John, says "Keep his commandments."
The difference? Your private interpretation requests memorization. Keeping his commandments requires behavior. For example, Saint Vic may have memorized a lot of the bible, but he was lousy about keeping his commandments.
God's point: David's love for His Word was always attached to obeying it with his whole heart.
I agree.
God's Word is God's will.
Loving God's Word means loving His will, which means loving lining up with and obeying His commands, as 1 John explains more than once.
When I talk about loving God's Word, I don't mean fake love, but real genuine love. Genuine phileo for the OT believers.
Someone like a Pharisee would love UTILIZING the Word for status and power plays over people. But such a fake lover would not get the message of the father who loved the prodigal son in the Gospels. A fake lover would seize upon items in Corinthians, but see little utility in deeply grasping and applying the contents of chapter 12.
A genuine lover of God's Word would want to do it the way 1 John describes.
*/*/*
BTW, I've heard that ALL the verses in Psalm 119 are about God's Word, whether written or directly inspired. That Psalm presents many synonyms for His Word. Commandments are the Word in that Psalm. Statutes are the Word. Etc.
I thought I spotted one or two verses that lacked this many years ago, but that is too dim a memory to lean on.
Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness,they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation.They put himunder guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then theLordsaid to Moses,“The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shallstone him with stones outside the camp.”So, as theLordcommanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
Loving God's Word means loving His will, which means loving lining up with and obeying His commands, as 1 John explains more than once.
When I talk about loving God's Word, I don't mean fake love, but real genuine love. Genuine phileo for the OT believers.
Someone like a Pharisee would love UTILIZING the Word for status and power plays over people. But such a fake lover would not get the message of the father who loved the prodigal son in the Gospels. A fake lover would seize upon items in Corinthians, but see little utility in deeply grasping and applying the contents of chapter 12.
A genuine lover of God's Word would want to do it the way 1 John describes.
*/*/*
BTW, I've heard that ALL the verses in Psalm 119 are about God's Word, whether written or directly inspired. That Psalm presents many synonyms for His Word. Commandments are the Word in that Psalm. Statutes are the Word. Etc.
I thought I spotted one or two verses that lacked this many years ago, but that is too dim a memory to lean on.
Sad. Your definition of love is some regurgitated wierwille stuff...a man who knew so much about love he was a serial adulterer, sexual predator and his wife is quoted as saying at his graveside that "he was a mean man". Your just repeating what youve heard with little depth there mike. Sad really.
Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness,they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation.They put himunder guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then theLordsaid to Moses,“The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shallstone him with stones outside the camp.”So, as theLordcommanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
Must have been God's will.
That poor man didn't understand the meaning of Sabbath. It means to sit. sit, Sit, SIT!!
If he had only been gathering sticks while sitting, he could have avoided the stoning.
Man! HOW to love God is in my standard witnessing repertoire, if I get that far.
Do you think you love God, Mike?
How does that play out in your day to day life?
And how does that play out in the way you respond to people here? You doubt what people say, and attribute thoughts and opinions to them that they clearly don't have.
"And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who has betrothed her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt deceitfully with her. And if he has betrothed her to his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights. And if he does not do these three for her, then she shall go out free, without paying money." Exodus 21:7-11
Loving God's Word means loving His will, which means loving lining up with and obeying His commands, as 1 John explains more than once.
When I talk about loving God's Word, I don't mean fake love, but real genuine love. Genuine phileo for the OT believers.
Someone like a Pharisee would love UTILIZING the Word for status and power plays over people. But such a fake lover would not get the message of the father who loved the prodigal son in the Gospels. A fake lover would seize upon items in Corinthians, but see little utility in deeply grasping and applying the contents of chapter 12.
A genuine lover of God's Word would want to do it the way 1 John describes.
*/*/*
BTW, I've heard that ALL the verses in Psalm 119 are about God's Word, whether written or directly inspired. That Psalm presents many synonyms for His Word. Commandments are the Word in that Psalm. Statutes are the Word. Etc.
I thought I spotted one or two verses that lacked this many years ago, but that is too dim a memory to lean on.
I don't fully understand David's love for the law as he speaks about it in Psalm 119. I have not studied the OT much or read any secular books about the history, culture, wars, beliefs, etc. of those times.
But David obviously knew something about the law that pleased him greatly. Paul said in Romans 7 that the law was holy, just and good - people were just not able to keep it. Gal 3 says that the law was added because of transgressions until the promised seed should come. The law was called a schoolmaster to bring the Jews unto Christ that they might be justified by faith.
This explains why under the law, anyone who deliberately broke the Sabbath was put to death. The 4th commandment taught the Jews that in order to enter into God's rest, they had to cease from their own works. This pointed towards the coming Messiah whose work alone on the cross would save the world from sin. The penalty for breaking the Sabbath was severe (death) but it is also the penalty for those who try to be saved through their own works (eternal death).
Sad. Your definition of love is some regurgitated wierwille stuff...a man who knew so much about love he was a serial adulterer, sexual predator and his wife is quoted as saying at his graveside that "he was a mean man". Your just repeating what youve heard with little depth there mike. Sad really.
He's determined to make scripture fit into the teaching and terminology of the collaterals which have vp's name on than the other way round. It's a blatant way to trash the verses that describe what a true servant of Christ is to be.
...the Sabbath... The 4th commandment taught the Jews that in order to enter into God's rest, they had to cease from their own works.
Charity, I'm not saying you are wrong, but either you didn't absorb it fully the first time or you forgot.
victor revealed rest and ceasing work are inaccurate translations of the most difficult radicals in the Hebrew language. According to victor, Sabbath is sitting, not ceasing. He should know. victor studied eighteen hours per day for forty years. If anyone knew Hebrew, victor did.
If victor said it, it is settled.
victor was the seventh THE man of god. Six came before him. victor put oil on the head of the one who came after him, the eighth THE man of god.
Charity, I'm not saying you are wrong, but either you didn't absorb it fully the first time or you forgot.
victor revealed rest and ceasing work are inaccurate translations of the most difficult radicals in the Hebrew language. According to victor, Sabbath is sitting, not ceasing. He should know. victor studied eighteen hours per day for forty years. If anyone knew Hebrew, victor did.
If victor said it, it is settled.
victor was the seventh THE man of god. Six came before him. victor put oil on the head of the one who came after him, the eighth THE man of god.
Read that again.
Oil.
OIL!!!
Feel free to correct me any time. I remember reading something about this but I found it confusing, although I did look up the meaning of radicals which I'm sure only confused me more . So, are you saying that since vp was inaccurate with the "sitting" stuff that rest and ceasing work is a correct translation?
Feel free to correct me any time. I remember reading something about this but I found it confusing, although I did look up the meaning of radicals which I'm sure only confused me more . So, are you saying that since vp was inaccurate with the "sitting" stuff that rest and ceasing work is a correct translation?
If I have to explain, the effectualpower with impactwill be lost.
Someone here claimed that victor's ministry was not really about research.The claim is victor's was a verification ministry.
But when one starts to verify what victor spoke and wrote, one finds out just how wrong he was about damn near everything.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
61
52
50
37
Popular Days
Jul 31
87
Jul 27
47
Aug 4
36
Aug 5
34
Top Posters In This Topic
Rocky 61 posts
Mike 52 posts
OldSkool 50 posts
Nathan_Jr 37 posts
Popular Days
Jul 31 2023
87 posts
Jul 27 2023
47 posts
Aug 4 2023
36 posts
Aug 5 2023
34 posts
Popular Posts
penworks
Or, for something completely different along these lines, there's a very compelling argument for doing away with bible study altogether in a "shocking" book called The End of Biblical Studies (gasp!)
waysider
The sound of irony is deafening.
OldSkool
I dont see jeering and chatter I saw you completely shut down because you were confronted with uncomfortable truths that you are smart enough to recognize but deluded enough to rationalize them away.
Posted Images
Rocky
Sounds like you are still trying to rationalize/justify your apparent bibliolatry.
Which means you (again) seem to completely miss Charity's point. Though others apparently DID get it.
So, to you, walking in love equates to what the Pharisees did? Knowing scriptures (and collaterals) better than anyone else and self-righteously flaunting that knowledge?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
When? 1000 B.C.? 700 B.C.? 300 B.C? 200 B.C.? Who are they? Who is making copies?
I would love to read more about this. What is your source for this claim?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Should we check the history of Xerox?
Oh, and btw, here's an intriguing YT short about LOVE. Do you think the best way to love this puppy is to love his words?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
How do you define anthology (book) worship?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
Edited by CharityLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Throughout large portions of history, the common man has experienced widespread illiteracy. Even today, illiteracy exists, often by forced edicts. Equating words with books is a false comparison. Yes, books often contain words and words often define the content of books. So what? Apples contain juice. Juice is found in oranges. Are apples oranges? When someone has an inordinate fixation or obsession for books in general or a specific collection of books, regardless of whether the books contain words, as some books are exclusively visual in nature, we call that...bibliolatry.
Edited by waysiderwrong word
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
Speaking of illiteracy, Mike seems to think the reading ability back in Deuteronomy days was equal to contemporary times. How else would the Jews copy passages from the scrolls and hang them in their homes? How else would they become "bible freaks"?
Mike, there wasn't a bible on public display until it was well into book form, sometime way After the Common Era. So how were they able to be "bible freaks" with no bible to freak with?
Also, Mike, note that your Deuteronomy quote does not say "saturate your life with God's words", it too, like John, says "Keep his commandments."
The difference? Your private interpretation requests memorization. Keeping his commandments requires behavior. For example, Saint Vic may have memorized a lot of the bible, but he was lousy about keeping his commandments.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
I agree.
God's Word is God's will.
Loving God's Word means loving His will, which means loving lining up with and obeying His commands, as 1 John explains more than once.
When I talk about loving God's Word, I don't mean fake love, but real genuine love. Genuine phileo for the OT believers.
Someone like a Pharisee would love UTILIZING the Word for status and power plays over people. But such a fake lover would not get the message of the father who loved the prodigal son in the Gospels. A fake lover would seize upon items in Corinthians, but see little utility in deeply grasping and applying the contents of chapter 12.
A genuine lover of God's Word would want to do it the way 1 John describes.
*/*/*
BTW, I've heard that ALL the verses in Psalm 119 are about God's Word, whether written or directly inspired. That Psalm presents many synonyms for His Word. Commandments are the Word in that Psalm. Statutes are the Word. Etc.
Edited by MikeI thought I spotted one or two verses that lacked this many years ago, but that is too dim a memory to lean on.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
Must have been God's will.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Sad. Your definition of love is some regurgitated wierwille stuff...a man who knew so much about love he was a serial adulterer, sexual predator and his wife is quoted as saying at his graveside that "he was a mean man". Your just repeating what youve heard with little depth there mike. Sad really.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
That poor man didn't understand the meaning of Sabbath. It means to sit. sit, Sit, SIT!!
If he had only been gathering sticks while sitting, he could have avoided the stoning.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I'm thinking he wasn't paying attention the first time he heard it. Or maybe he just forgot.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
The Word means a lot of things. For some it can mean anything. YourBelieving+YourWalk+TheBible+ChristInYou.
"Will" has synonyms. The explicit and implicit meanings vary.
Logos is Greek for word. But it's not as simple as it appears. Pinning down the concept of logos is a winding and cavernous endeavor.
And then there's God. What is meant? Depends on who you ask.
"God's word is God's will" is a loaded, pithy phrase, insidiously designed to seduce.
Edited by Nathan_JrLink to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Free radicals are easy to forget.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Do you think you love God, Mike?
How does that play out in your day to day life?
And how does that play out in the way you respond to people here? You doubt what people say, and attribute thoughts and opinions to them that they clearly don't have.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
"And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who has betrothed her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt deceitfully with her. And if he has betrothed her to his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights. And if he does not do these three for her, then she shall go out free, without paying money." Exodus 21:7-11
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Entreating people to embrace the words of a serial rapist. What could possibly be more loving than that?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Entreating people to embrace the words of a con man? Could that be more loving?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliolatry
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
I don't fully understand David's love for the law as he speaks about it in Psalm 119. I have not studied the OT much or read any secular books about the history, culture, wars, beliefs, etc. of those times.
But David obviously knew something about the law that pleased him greatly. Paul said in Romans 7 that the law was holy, just and good - people were just not able to keep it. Gal 3 says that the law was added because of transgressions until the promised seed should come. The law was called a schoolmaster to bring the Jews unto Christ that they might be justified by faith.
This explains why under the law, anyone who deliberately broke the Sabbath was put to death. The 4th commandment taught the Jews that in order to enter into God's rest, they had to cease from their own works. This pointed towards the coming Messiah whose work alone on the cross would save the world from sin. The penalty for breaking the Sabbath was severe (death) but it is also the penalty for those who try to be saved through their own works (eternal death).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
He's determined to make scripture fit into the teaching and terminology of the collaterals which have vp's name on than the other way round. It's a blatant way to trash the verses that describe what a true servant of Christ is to be.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Charity, I'm not saying you are wrong, but either you didn't absorb it fully the first time or you forgot.
victor revealed rest and ceasing work are inaccurate translations of the most difficult radicals in the Hebrew language. According to victor, Sabbath is sitting, not ceasing. He should know. victor studied eighteen hours per day for forty years. If anyone knew Hebrew, victor did.
If victor said it, it is settled.
victor was the seventh THE man of god. Six came before him. victor put oil on the head of the one who came after him, the eighth THE man of god.
Read that again.
Oil.
OIL!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Charity
Feel free to correct me any time. I remember reading something about this but I found it confusing, although I did look up the meaning of radicals which I'm sure only confused me more
. So, are you saying that since vp was inaccurate with the "sitting" stuff that rest and ceasing work is a correct translation?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
If I have to explain, the effectual power with impact will be lost.
Someone here claimed that victor's ministry was not really about research. The claim is victor's was a verification ministry.
But when one starts to verify what victor spoke and wrote, one finds out just how wrong he was about damn near everything.
How wrong, you might ask?
Dead wrong That's how.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.