BTW, anyone who wants a quick summary of the main points of that entire transcript, it's simple. I said it before:
"Serving people is important for Christians. Therefore, master all three levels of PFAL and serve them that. There are no answers outside the Way Ministry."
(The end,)
My initial response to it was that this was the closing remarks of a man with an overinflated sense of his organization, and an underinflated sense of all Christians outside that organization.
"The Joy of Serving" was a commercial for pfal. "You have to serve people something-so serve them the 3 levels of the class, and outside of twi, there's no real answers for people. (The End.)"
Since it was hard to find, I thought I'd repost it. Mike insists this was vpw's last public teaching (there's reason to dispute that), and that it's important (and most of us don't take that seriously at all.) It was called "The Joy of Serving."
IMO, the title, The Joy of Serving, was completely subterfuge.
Joy is joy. Wanna know what gives me great joy? My grandchildren.
Serving in Victor's cult was mostly drudgery. But renaming drudgery as joy may have psyched some people into feeling guilty for not devoting all of their time to selling PFLAP and taking orders from Loy Martindale.
In summary, sell out to my class that I spent my lifetime cobbling together from stolen materials, and then give TWI complete control over your entire life by becoming theirs, but not Christs, doulos bondslave.
Maybe it was the apex of his homiletic career. Get more cult followers in less time.
He was so good at that he spent far less time on that teaching preparation than he did on trying to figure out if he did anything wrong.
And many followed that exact pattern. Look at the history of the Way Corps. That’s what they all did. At least in their younger years until they figured out the pyramid scheme. Then the Way cast them out or they grew disenfranchised and left. Well over 95% of the number that entered.
Some say that’s because the adversary tricked them out of giving the last years of their life to the same cult that used up their younger years. Those that say that are in power and enjoying the benefits of their power. They are biased. Also there is a different life for Way elites than for standard followers.
How many classes have the top leaders EVER put together or run? How many souls have the ones who set the sales quotas for leaders actually won for Christ themselves?
There is joy in serving. As a Christian or any other religion. I have relatives enjoying the joy of serving through a yoga teacher who organizes help groups. People enter careers because they enjoy the service industry. There are unending opportunities to give and serve your fellow human in your own community.
There is absolutely joy in service.
You know where there is not joy? In buying into a counterfeit service organization and becoming a doulos slave to it for your entire life.
Number one, you have to take PFAL and master it -- Intermediate,
you gotta master it; the collateral's that go with it, you gotta
master. Then you've got something to serve people.
Oh, don't you just pity those people who only have a Bible to read, and then go out and do as it says? Give to the underprivileged, comfort the afflicted, help those less fortunate. Great Christian charities that are set up to help widows and orphans. Churches that get involved in their communities. Organisations that help trafficked people, prostitutes, enslaved folk in other countries. Such extraordinary people and organisations only have the gospels and the epistles - oh, and the examples from the OT - oh, and the gift of holy spirit, but let's not talk about that - to guide their actions.
Such failures! They really need the collaterals!
And that's not to mention the zillions of people, non-Christian and otherwise, including Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc, who have the joy of service as part of their own expressions of faith.
And those who just have an innate sense of service and helping others, in so many ways: doctors, teachers, and yes, even the lowliest - road sweepers, etc.
you've gotta have something that's joyfully to be served,...
you ought to master this so you can help somebody in the shop or factory;
or wherever you are, so that you got answers for them.
See, his emphasis is "serving up" something - not "serving" people.
He wants to give people his message. To "serve it up" to them.
He doesn't want to seriously help (or "serve") people by doing things that help, like feeding them, giving them clothes or other practical help.
Yet another of those subtle shifts of emphasis in the bait-and-switch line.
Faith and Works (James 2)
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.16If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that?17So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action,is dead.
Oh, don't you just pity those people who only have a Bible to read, and then go out and do as it says? Give to the underprivileged, comfort the afflicted, help those less fortunate. Great Christian charities that are set up to help widows and orphans. Churches that get involved in their communities. Organisations that help trafficked people, prostitutes, enslaved folk in other countries. Such extraordinary people and organisations only have the gospels and the epistles - oh, and the examples from the OT - oh, and the gift of holy spirit, but let's not talk about that - to guide their actions.
Such failures! They really need the collaterals!
And that's not to mention the zillions of people, non-Christian and otherwise, including Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc, who have the joy of service as part of their own expressions of faith.
And those who just have an innate sense of service and helping others, in so many ways: doctors, teachers, and yes, even the lowliest - road sweepers, etc.
And they all work together too in this service. The ministries serving by fighting sex trafficking speak in the churches of the others. The money flows between the one church and the org. People are loosely connected and supportive.
They are obviously led astray. What is this idea of a Christian body working together? That can’t happen. It allows money to be given to “designer causes” as opposed to the true cause of giving all your money to “the ministry that taught you the Word”. But wait, I thought the Word interprets itself. I guess unless it involves money, then you need “extra special research” to reconcile Malachi in the OT with a different dispensation we live in today.
They need to “take the class” and become enlightened as to the earth shattering research in the collaterals. Then give their lives as a doulos to the Way planting little Way trees throughout their life.
One of the two groups is off their rocker, that is for sure.
Sometimes, Mike (and only Mike) insists this particular teaching has some amazing significance, because he says it's the last public teaching vpw did before he died, and, as such, is singularly important. ... Mike insists this was vpw's last public teaching (there's reason to dispute that), and that it's important (and most of us don't take that seriously at all.)
You missed the biggest point entirely, and got a few other details very wrong.
The most significant thing about this teaching is that it was UTTERLY LOSTin it's significance to upper leadership and Corps, then they allowed it to slip through the cracks.
I did an informal poll in the early 2000s that revealed the NON-Corps population was 99% completely unaware of this teaching, until I posted it here, 17 years after it was lost.
*/*/*/*/*/*
WordWolf, you hinted a few times that you have information that this was NOT his last teaching ????
It is quite certain that there were no other RECORDED teachings after this one. If you know otherwise, please release what kind of evidence you have. It was noted that VPW's health took a large downturn when he returned to HQ right after delivering this last teaching. His condition was so much for the worse on returning that LCM blamed Geer for having run him ragged. That he would do another teaching after this one is most doubtful.
His condition on the tape of this teaching is markedly the worst he ever put on tape. While his mind is obviously sharp, his voice says that he was very weakened. If anyone wants to hear the tape, I shrunk it down with mp3 compression to fit in an e-mail, and possibly GSC has attachments available in its Private Messaging system.
*/*/*/*/*/*
The significance of this being last is simple: it has VPW's most important message to us. Twice he taught us that he would want his last words to us to be his most important. Those notices are in the Green Book and in Living Victoriously. I have posted both texts here several times.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
ANOTHER point you missed, WW, is that this is addressed to TOP leadership. They were not (as you misrepresent here) being told by VPW here to SELL the class, but to master it themselves, because they had fallen short in this crucial area. In VPW's last teaching at Emporia he urged Corps to master the collaterals to the point they could teach any one at a moment's notice, with no preparation. This is the joy in service also.
ANOTHER point you missed, WW, is that this is addressed to TOP leadership. They were not (as you misrepresent here) being told by VPW here toSELL the class, but to master it themselves, because they had fallen short in this crucial area.
It makes no difference whether they were selling the class themselves directly or being held accountable for those who were. If you were a branch leader, area leader or limb leader, it was up to you to make sure the class was being sold.
"Sometimes, Mike (and only Mike) insists this particular teaching has some amazing significance, because he says it's the last public teaching vpw did before he died, and, as such, is singularly important. ... Mike insists this was vpw's last public teaching (there's reason to dispute that), and that it's important (and most of us don't take that seriously at all.)"
Mike:
"WordWolf, you hinted a few times that you have information that this was NOT his last teaching ????"
You quoted me above, and STILL managed to get it wrong. You removed a word. When you remove a word from the word of WordWolf, you no longer have the word of WordWolf. Last PUBLIC teaching. Others pointed out that the last PUBLIC teaching he did was on "The Hope."
=======================================
Mike:
"The significance of this being last is simple: it has VPW's most important message to us. Twice he taught us that he would want his last words to us to be his most important. Those notices are in the Green Book and in Living Victoriously. I have posted both texts here several times.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
ANOTHER point you missed, WW, is that this is addressed to TOP leadership."
==========================================
Mike, you just proved their point. This was NOT addressed to the public, by your admission. It was "addressed to TOP leadership." How you can say that and contradict it in the preceding paragraph is really more of a Mike thing.
The thing Mike just can't get is that nobody CARES what vpw's final words were to insiders and the rank-and-file were. As for the commercial, it doesn't matter who it was aimed at, it was still a commercial.
BTW, Mike's awfully ungrateful. If this really is THAT important, Mike should be THANKFUL I pulled it up and posted it. Why does Mike like to keep these things mentioned but never actually posted? Is it because the reality is inferior to the imagined value, and that's hidden as long as the original is hidden?
Mike, you just proved their point. This was NOT addressed to the public, by your admission. It was "addressed to TOP leadership." How you can say that and contradict it in the preceding paragraph is really more of a Mike thing.
You may have missed these sentences at the very beginning of the teaching. Right after the opening chit-chat is this:
"Since this is the meeting here at this time of country coordinators -- and of course, what I'm going to say should be applicable to [1] every born again believer, but especially to -- [2] our coordinators. I wanted to just share a little bit tonight on the joy of serving."
You missed the biggest point entirely, and got a few other details very wrong.
The most significant thing about this teaching is that it was UTTERLY LOSTin it's significance to upper leadership and Corps, then they allowed it to slip through the cracks.
Mike, Mike, Mike...
How often do you change minds by telling people to whom you reply that they are wrong?
If you want to find out, perhaps you can commission a scientific poll. Claiming to have done an informal poll two decades ago really sounds the same as "I'm making up a story for which I have no authoritative back up to my claim."
he urged Corps to master the collaterals to the point they could teach any one at a moment's notice, with no preparation. This is the joy in service also.
Hardly. Hardly "joy in service."
Any one of us, or any believer, should be able to point out significant things and themes in a Bible.
But "teaching" is not "service." Teaching is teaching. Or in this case, pushing propaganda.
VPW was (supposedly) talking about the joy OF service. I wonder if these teachers were also supposed to clean the place, set out chairs, make the coffee, clean the toilet, etc as well? That would be more "service" than teaching. But really, Mike, the JOY OF SERVICE is in actually helping, doing things, for people. Without the supposed kudos of "teaching" or "look at me" moments.
Blessed are the meek and humble, Mike. The ones who just get on quietly doing things in the background. The overlooked ones, the ones who notice something and fix it without making a fuss. The ones who wash dishes, pick things up off the floor, help those who can't walk easily, find food for the hungry, and such like.
You may have missed these sentences at the very beginning of the teaching. Right after the opening chit-chat is this:
"Since this is the meeting here at this time of country coordinators -- and of course, what I'm going to say should be applicable to [1] every born again believer, but especially to -- [2] our coordinators. I wanted to just share a little bit tonight on the joy of serving."
The meeting was for the country co-ordinators of Europe, ie, top leadership.
Mike,
for someone who tries so hard to convince us he understands pfal better than everyone else, for someone who claims that none of us understood pfal like we were supposed to......
surely you could avoid such an elementary mistake as to get "to whom" wrong. As you quoted, this was specifically for country coordinators, you said so TWICE. So it is addressed to whom? To the country coordinators. What about the "every born-again believer"? Well, any pfal grad should be able to explain that part, also. According to vpw himself, if there's a letter addressed specifically to me, there might be something you can learn from it as well, even though it wasn't addressed to you. According to vpw, that's how he explained "for our learning." [BTW, he was wrong, once again, on something there, but for someone who insists pfal is inerrant, that's not the point.] This was a closed meeting for the country coordinators, as I'm sure everyone else can see.
Any one of us, or any believer, should be able to point out significant things and themes in a Bible.
But "teaching" is not "service." Teaching is teaching. Or in this case, pushing propaganda.
VPW was (supposedly) talking about the joy OF service. I wonder if these teachers were also supposed to clean the place, set out chairs, make the coffee, clean the toilet, etc as well? That would be more "service" than teaching. But really, Mike, the JOY OF SERVICE is in actually helping, doing things, for people. Without the supposed kudos of "teaching" or "look at me" moments.
Blessed are the meek and humble, Mike. The ones who just get on quietly doing things in the background. The overlooked ones, the ones who notice something and fix it without making a fuss. The ones who wash dishes, pick things up off the floor, help those who can't walk easily, find food for the hungry, and such like.
You missed the biggest point entirely, and got a few other details very wrong.
The most significant thing about this teaching is that it was UTTERLY LOSTin it's significance to upper leadership and Corps, then they allowed it to slip through the cracks.
I did an informal poll in the early 2000s that revealed the NON-Corps population was 99% completely unaware of this teaching, until I posted it here, 17 years after it was lost.
*/*/*/*/*/*
WordWolf, you hinted a few times that you have information that this was NOT his last teaching ????
It is quite certain that there were no other RECORDED teachings after this one. If you know otherwise, please release what kind of evidence you have. It was noted that VPW's health took a large downturn when he returned to HQ right after delivering this last teaching. His condition was so much for the worse on returning that LCM blamed Geer for having run him ragged. That he would do another teaching after this one is most doubtful.
His condition on the tape of this teaching is markedly the worst he ever put on tape. While his mind is obviously sharp, his voice says that he was very weakened. If anyone wants to hear the tape, I shrunk it down with mp3 compression to fit in an e-mail, and possibly GSC has attachments available in its Private Messaging system.
*/*/*/*/*/*
The significance of this being last is simple: it has VPW's most important message to us. Twice he taught us that he would want his last words to us to be his most important. Those notices are in the Green Book and in Living Victoriously. I have posted both texts here several times.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
ANOTHER point you missed, WW, is that this is addressed to TOP leadership. They were not (as you misrepresent here) being told by VPW here to SELL the class, but to master it themselves, because they had fallen short in this crucial area. In VPW's last teaching at Emporia he urged Corps to master the collaterals to the point they could teach any one at a moment's notice, with no preparation. This is the joy in service also.
Oh...so if top leadership had listened to the teaching and mastered the material vpw referenced them the minustree never would have fell into ruins at the hands of the disobedient way corps..that's why it's significant to you. It's romanticized in your mind..carries some nostalgia and it's where you allow vpw off the hook for having a fake ministry that was geared to selling classes from the beginning. You know what the way ministry is geared towards today? Selling classes.
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WordWolf
BTW, anyone who wants a quick summary of the main points of that entire transcript, it's simple. I said it before:
"Serving people is important for Christians. Therefore, master all three levels of PFAL and serve them that. There are no answers outside the Way Ministry."
(The end,)
My initial response to it was that this was the closing remarks of a man with an overinflated sense of his organization, and an underinflated sense of all Christians outside that organization.
"The Joy of Serving" was a commercial for pfal. "You have to serve people something-so serve them the 3 levels of the class, and outside of twi, there's no real answers for people. (The End.)"
Since it was hard to find, I thought I'd repost it. Mike insists this was vpw's last public teaching (there's reason to dispute that), and that it's important (and most of us don't take that seriously at all.) It was called "The Joy of Serving."
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Rocky
IMO, the title, The Joy of Serving, was completely subterfuge.
Joy is joy. Wanna know what gives me great joy? My grandchildren.
Serving in Victor's cult was mostly drudgery. But renaming drudgery as joy may have psyched some people into feeling guilty for not devoting all of their time to selling PFLAP and taking orders from Loy Martindale.
No thank you.
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chockfull
In summary, sell out to my class that I spent my lifetime cobbling together from stolen materials, and then give TWI complete control over your entire life by becoming theirs, but not Christs, doulos bondslave.
Maybe it was the apex of his homiletic career. Get more cult followers in less time.
He was so good at that he spent far less time on that teaching preparation than he did on trying to figure out if he did anything wrong.
And many followed that exact pattern. Look at the history of the Way Corps. That’s what they all did. At least in their younger years until they figured out the pyramid scheme. Then the Way cast them out or they grew disenfranchised and left. Well over 95% of the number that entered.
Some say that’s because the adversary tricked them out of giving the last years of their life to the same cult that used up their younger years. Those that say that are in power and enjoying the benefits of their power. They are biased. Also there is a different life for Way elites than for standard followers.
How many classes have the top leaders EVER put together or run? How many souls have the ones who set the sales quotas for leaders actually won for Christ themselves?
The answer is slim and none.
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chockfull
There is joy in serving. As a Christian or any other religion. I have relatives enjoying the joy of serving through a yoga teacher who organizes help groups. People enter careers because they enjoy the service industry. There are unending opportunities to give and serve your fellow human in your own community.
There is absolutely joy in service.
You know where there is not joy? In buying into a counterfeit service organization and becoming a doulos slave to it for your entire life.
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Twinky
Oh, don't you just pity those people who only have a Bible to read, and then go out and do as it says? Give to the underprivileged, comfort the afflicted, help those less fortunate. Great Christian charities that are set up to help widows and orphans. Churches that get involved in their communities. Organisations that help trafficked people, prostitutes, enslaved folk in other countries. Such extraordinary people and organisations only have the gospels and the epistles - oh, and the examples from the OT - oh, and the gift of holy spirit, but let's not talk about that - to guide their actions.
Such failures! They really need the collaterals!
And that's not to mention the zillions of people, non-Christian and otherwise, including Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc, who have the joy of service as part of their own expressions of faith.
And those who just have an innate sense of service and helping others, in so many ways: doctors, teachers, and yes, even the lowliest - road sweepers, etc.
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Twinky
See, his emphasis is "serving up" something - not "serving" people.
He wants to give people his message. To "serve it up" to them.
He doesn't want to seriously help (or "serve") people by doing things that help, like feeding them, giving them clothes or other practical help.
Yet another of those subtle shifts of emphasis in the bait-and-switch line.
Faith and Works (James 2)
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? 17So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action, is dead.
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chockfull
And they all work together too in this service. The ministries serving by fighting sex trafficking speak in the churches of the others. The money flows between the one church and the org. People are loosely connected and supportive.
They are obviously led astray. What is this idea of a Christian body working together? That can’t happen. It allows money to be given to “designer causes” as opposed to the true cause of giving all your money to “the ministry that taught you the Word”. But wait, I thought the Word interprets itself. I guess unless it involves money, then you need “extra special research” to reconcile Malachi in the OT with a different dispensation we live in today.
They need to “take the class” and become enlightened as to the earth shattering research in the collaterals. Then give their lives as a doulos to the Way planting little Way trees throughout their life.
One of the two groups is off their rocker, that is for sure.
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waysider
Hey, everybody! Sing with me.
"I've got the joy, joy, joy, joy in piffle class.
WHERE?
in piffle class.
WHERE?
in piffle class."........
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Mike
You missed the biggest point entirely, and got a few other details very wrong.
The most significant thing about this teaching is that it was UTTERLY LOST in it's significance to upper leadership and Corps, then they allowed it to slip through the cracks.
I did an informal poll in the early 2000s that revealed the NON-Corps population was 99% completely unaware of this teaching, until I posted it here, 17 years after it was lost.
*/*/*/*/*/*
WordWolf, you hinted a few times that you have information that this was NOT his last teaching ????
It is quite certain that there were no other RECORDED teachings after this one. If you know otherwise, please release what kind of evidence you have. It was noted that VPW's health took a large downturn when he returned to HQ right after delivering this last teaching. His condition was so much for the worse on returning that LCM blamed Geer for having run him ragged. That he would do another teaching after this one is most doubtful.
His condition on the tape of this teaching is markedly the worst he ever put on tape. While his mind is obviously sharp, his voice says that he was very weakened. If anyone wants to hear the tape, I shrunk it down with mp3 compression to fit in an e-mail, and possibly GSC has attachments available in its Private Messaging system.
*/*/*/*/*/*
The significance of this being last is simple: it has VPW's most important message to us. Twice he taught us that he would want his last words to us to be his most important. Those notices are in the Green Book and in Living Victoriously. I have posted both texts here several times.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
ANOTHER point you missed, WW, is that this is addressed to TOP leadership. They were not (as you misrepresent here) being told by VPW here to SELL the class, but to master it themselves, because they had fallen short in this crucial area. In VPW's last teaching at Emporia he urged Corps to master the collaterals to the point they could teach any one at a moment's notice, with no preparation. This is the joy in service also.
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waysider
It makes no difference whether they were selling the class themselves directly or being held accountable for those who were. If you were a branch leader, area leader or limb leader, it was up to you to make sure the class was being sold.
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WordWolf
WordWolf:
"Sometimes, Mike (and only Mike) insists this particular teaching has some amazing significance, because he says it's the last public teaching vpw did before he died, and, as such, is singularly important. ... Mike insists this was vpw's last public teaching (there's reason to dispute that), and that it's important (and most of us don't take that seriously at all.)"
Mike:
"WordWolf, you hinted a few times that you have information that this was NOT his last teaching ????"
You quoted me above, and STILL managed to get it wrong. You removed a word. When you remove a word from the word of WordWolf, you no longer have the word of WordWolf. Last PUBLIC teaching. Others pointed out that the last PUBLIC teaching he did was on "The Hope."
=======================================
Mike:
"The significance of this being last is simple: it has VPW's most important message to us. Twice he taught us that he would want his last words to us to be his most important. Those notices are in the Green Book and in Living Victoriously. I have posted both texts here several times.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
ANOTHER point you missed, WW, is that this is addressed to TOP leadership."
==========================================
Mike, you just proved their point. This was NOT addressed to the public, by your admission. It was "addressed to TOP leadership." How you can say that and contradict it in the preceding paragraph is really more of a Mike thing.
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WordWolf
The thing Mike just can't get is that nobody CARES what vpw's final words were to insiders and the rank-and-file were. As for the commercial, it doesn't matter who it was aimed at, it was still a commercial.
BTW, Mike's awfully ungrateful. If this really is THAT important, Mike should be THANKFUL I pulled it up and posted it. Why does Mike like to keep these things mentioned but never actually posted? Is it because the reality is inferior to the imagined value, and that's hidden as long as the original is hidden?
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Mike
You may have missed these sentences at the very beginning of the teaching. Right after the opening chit-chat is this:
"Since this is the meeting here at this time of country coordinators -- and of course, what I'm going to say should be applicable to [1] every born again believer, but especially to -- [2] our coordinators. I wanted to just share a little bit tonight on the joy of serving."
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Nathan_Jr
How is coordinator defined here? Who is a coordinator?
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Mike
The meeting was for the country co-ordinators of Europe, ie, top leadership.
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Nathan_Jr
Corpsmen? Corpswomen?
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Rocky
Mike, Mike, Mike...
How often do you change minds by telling people to whom you reply that they are wrong?
If you want to find out, perhaps you can commission a scientific poll. Claiming to have done an informal poll two decades ago really sounds the same as "I'm making up a story for which I have no authoritative back up to my claim."
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Twinky
Hardly. Hardly "joy in service."
Any one of us, or any believer, should be able to point out significant things and themes in a Bible.
But "teaching" is not "service." Teaching is teaching. Or in this case, pushing propaganda.
VPW was (supposedly) talking about the joy OF service. I wonder if these teachers were also supposed to clean the place, set out chairs, make the coffee, clean the toilet, etc as well? That would be more "service" than teaching. But really, Mike, the JOY OF SERVICE is in actually helping, doing things, for people. Without the supposed kudos of "teaching" or "look at me" moments.
Blessed are the meek and humble, Mike. The ones who just get on quietly doing things in the background. The overlooked ones, the ones who notice something and fix it without making a fuss. The ones who wash dishes, pick things up off the floor, help those who can't walk easily, find food for the hungry, and such like.
Please pay attention. Please.
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WordWolf
Mike,
for someone who tries so hard to convince us he understands pfal better than everyone else, for someone who claims that none of us understood pfal like we were supposed to......
surely you could avoid such an elementary mistake as to get "to whom" wrong. As you quoted, this was specifically for country coordinators, you said so TWICE. So it is addressed to whom? To the country coordinators. What about the "every born-again believer"? Well, any pfal grad should be able to explain that part, also. According to vpw himself, if there's a letter addressed specifically to me, there might be something you can learn from it as well, even though it wasn't addressed to you. According to vpw, that's how he explained "for our learning." [BTW, he was wrong, once again, on something there, but for someone who insists pfal is inerrant, that's not the point.] This was a closed meeting for the country coordinators, as I'm sure everyone else can see.
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WordWolf
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OldSkool
Oh...so if top leadership had listened to the teaching and mastered the material vpw referenced them the minustree never would have fell into ruins at the hands of the disobedient way corps..that's why it's significant to you. It's romanticized in your mind..carries some nostalgia and it's where you allow vpw off the hook for having a fake ministry that was geared to selling classes from the beginning. You know what the way ministry is geared towards today? Selling classes.
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waysider
I have a girlfriend. She..uhhh.. goes to a different school in another town.
Edited by waysidermissed a word/spelling
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OldSkool
Holy smokes!! Dude...your girlfriend and I went to different schools together!
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