Martindale's "de-Wierwillization" of TWI reminded me of Khruschev's "de-Stalinization" of the USSR, without the vilification. He obviously couldn't get away with dissing VPW, so he just changed all the names of everything that Vic did. He obviously intended to "make" the ministry "his own"! :D-->
I was gone before Rosie took over. How is the "de-Martindalization" progressing? ;)-->
And........in a few years the "de-Rivenbarkisms" will be washed away as the tides of time roll on. No one stands (except its founder, vp) to leave an imprint, let alone a legacy. :D-->
It's the present truth, the present truth and NOTHING but the present truth!
The "de-Martindalization" is working by "don't talk about it". If you quit talking about it and accuse those who do of holding on to the past and not moving on, then they will forget.
"It's okay to talk about his book because he was a wonderful, intelligent MOG who just happened to have a tiny character flaw.... --> but we forgive and forget." This is their new mantra.
They keep references to him quiet and subtle because they know that people are peeved and don't take his sins as lightly as the BOD and little wannabees do, but they also know if they openly worship him they will run those people off and that would impact the income stream.
quote:They keep references to him quiet and subtle because they know that people are peeved and don't take his sins as lightly as the BOD and little wannabees do, but they also know if they openly worship him they will run those people off and that would impact the income stream.
TWI has long been in the re-writing business. How many people who got involved in the seventies knew any of the "pillars of the church" from the fifties, other than the ones who still hung around?
How many people who got involved in the late seventies/early eighties knew who Steve Heefner was? Or that he operated an independent "Way East" in New York state?
What about how supporters of Wierwille like P*ter W*de were ignored, as if they never existed. Even a GS regular, who still runs PFAL classes, did not know who he was in a recent thread.
In the nineties, the fact that there were five trustees at one time during the late eighties was whited out of the records.
Winston Smith lives indeed...Let us not forget the myth of the snow on the gas pumps, the snowstorm in Tulsa, or the hookshot for that matter...Vic the grifter always had his spin going...working the crowd.
If the true history of twi was made "available", I would imagine we would see several thousand more leave.
quote:In the nineties, the fact that there were five trustees at one time during the late eighties was whited out of the records.
Indeed it was! Who were they? Why did they go to five and then why back to 3?
Following the reading of the POP Ricardo Caballero and John Townsend were added to the Board of Trustees. I don't know if they resigned or were forced off as Martindale regained control.
References to the Trustees in the 90's omitted these two
Indeed it was! Who were they? Why did they go to five and then why back to 3?
Are you asking? Or is that rhetorical.
Chris Geer had two more trustees installed after POP: Johnny Townsend and Ricardo Caballero. They both got kicked out in the 1989 purge.
To the best of my knowledge, Townsend remained a Geer loyalist. I have no idea what happened to Caballero, or if my info on Townsend is still valid (it was 10 years ago).
The "five" of the trustees included LCM, DEW, HA, and then they added Ricardo Cabellero and Johnny Townsend, IIRC.
BTW, skyrider, wasn't the real exodus in the spring of '89? That's when LCM gave his infamous "my way or the highway" directive and all those with any doubts whatsoever about the wisdom of WayWorld mandates were unceremoniously shown the door...
quote:BTW, skyrider, wasn't the real exodus in the spring of '89? That's when LCM gave his infamous "my way or the highway" directive and all those with any doubts whatsoever about the wisdom of WayWorld mandates were unceremoniously shown the door...
Yeah, George......you've got a point there.
In some ways, it depends on how one looks at "exodus"........
August 1986.......Gxxr read POP at corps week -- soon many started exiting
1987..............JAL, RD and others spoke out -- "the exodus" had begun
1988..............More clergy/leaders left ----- "the twi exodus" was in full swing
March 8, 1989.....LCM public stands against CGeer -- the infamous directive ensues
Most had ALREADY made their decision to leave throughout this 1988 year....and were just getting their ducks in a row. :D-->
But yeah......I guess 1989 might be the best year to clarify it.
We know your question was serious, but it really shows you weren't told much about the earlier twi.
J*hnny T*wnsend was in twi since the 60's - - came shortly after doing time in the Army (I think it was the Army). He married Naomi who was in the 1st Corps (they are still married and live in Beavercreek, OH).
He was one of VP's early assistants and one of the few (like Donnie Fugit) who was allowed to teach PFAL live. He also spent a lot of time as a Limb Leader in Kansas - - also did time in NY and CA. He was one of the more "mature" younger people VP relied on who was instrumental in helping build the ministry from the 60s through the 80s. Could always be counted on to "put out fires". (He came into Calif. in 1976 or so when the previous Limb guy was involved in a sex scandal, etc., and came to restore "order").
He was at HQ quite a bit off and on over the years. So when POP .... hit the fan, he was naturally one of the choices to help "return the ministry to God's Word".
Yes, he is still running Geer classes - - I believe the only one licensed in Ohio. Has a number of old time PFAL grads in the area he still fellowships with.
I don't know all of Ricardo's background, but his father was very high up in gov't in Argentina when Ricardo got involved in the ministry. He graduated from the 7th Corps and he and his wife ran Argentina for a number of years. Not too many years after POP, he and his wife split, she continuing to run Argentina for twi. He's remarried now, but I don't know what he is doing.
Why he was brought in to help as a Trustee after POP, I have no idea. Perhaps some of the folks who were at HQ at the time might know better than me. I will say, he's a very sweet, kind man.
quote:Why he was brought in to help as a Trustee after POP, I have no idea. Perhaps some of the folks who were at HQ at the time might know better than me. I will say, he's a very sweet, kind man.
For one thing.....cgeer was the one DIRECTING twi's trustees "how to fix the problems." Cgeer was 7th corps and Rxcardo was 7th corps as well.
I could be wrong on this.....but I seem to remember something where cgeer said that Rxcardo had great leadership qualities (country coord. of Argentina), strong integrity and a pure heart.
For 2 1/2 years......cgeer was the man "in charge" which turned twi on its ear. :D-->
Funny so far. If they ever did "publish" a real history, it would probably look like one of those documents people get from the CIA with the freedom of information act- whole pages blacked out..
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GeorgeStGeorge
Martindale's "de-Wierwillization" of TWI reminded me of Khruschev's "de-Stalinization" of the USSR, without the vilification. He obviously couldn't get away with dissing VPW, so he just changed all the names of everything that Vic did. He obviously intended to "make" the ministry "his own"!
:D-->
I was gone before Rosie took over. How is the "de-Martindalization" progressing?
;)-->
George
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skyrider
George.....excellent post!
And........in a few years the "de-Rivenbarkisms" will be washed away as the tides of time roll on. No one stands (except its founder, vp) to leave an imprint, let alone a legacy.
:D-->
It's the present truth, the present truth and NOTHING but the present truth!
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Belle
The "de-Martindalization" is working by "don't talk about it". If you quit talking about it and accuse those who do of holding on to the past and not moving on, then they will forget.
"It's okay to talk about his book because he was a wonderful, intelligent MOG who just happened to have a tiny character flaw....
--> but we forgive and forget." This is their new mantra.
They keep references to him quiet and subtle because they know that people are peeved and don't take his sins as lightly as the BOD and little wannabees do, but they also know if they openly worship him they will run those people off and that would impact the income stream.
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skyrider
Belle....yeah, the income stream.
:)-->
MONEY.......always canoeing DOWNstream, it's easier.
:D--> 
:D-->
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Oakspear
TWI has long been in the re-writing business. How many people who got involved in the seventies knew any of the "pillars of the church" from the fifties, other than the ones who still hung around?
How many people who got involved in the late seventies/early eighties knew who Steve Heefner was? Or that he operated an independent "Way East" in New York state?
What about how supporters of Wierwille like P*ter W*de were ignored, as if they never existed. Even a GS regular, who still runs PFAL classes, did not know who he was in a recent thread.
In the nineties, the fact that there were five trustees at one time during the late eighties was whited out of the records.
Winston Smith lives!
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GrouchoMarxJr
Winston Smith lives indeed...Let us not forget the myth of the snow on the gas pumps, the snowstorm in Tulsa, or the hookshot for that matter...Vic the grifter always had his spin going...working the crowd.
If the true history of twi was made "available", I would imagine we would see several thousand more leave.
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Ham
So much for a kinder, gentler, we tell our people all about the peas nuts and cumcumbers organization.
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Belle
Indeed it was! Who were they? Why did they go to five and then why back to 3?
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Tom Strange
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excathedra
ha ! tommy
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GrouchoMarxJr
TS...You got me on that one...
:D-->
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Oakspear
References to the Trustees in the 90's omitted these two
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Raf
Are you asking? Or is that rhetorical.
Chris Geer had two more trustees installed after POP: Johnny Townsend and Ricardo Caballero. They both got kicked out in the 1989 purge.
To the best of my knowledge, Townsend remained a Geer loyalist. I have no idea what happened to Caballero, or if my info on Townsend is still valid (it was 10 years ago).
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George Aar
Belle,
The "five" of the trustees included LCM, DEW, HA, and then they added Ricardo Cabellero and Johnny Townsend, IIRC.
BTW, skyrider, wasn't the real exodus in the spring of '89? That's when LCM gave his infamous "my way or the highway" directive and all those with any doubts whatsoever about the wisdom of WayWorld mandates were unceremoniously shown the door...
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skyrider
Yeah, George......you've got a point there.
In some ways, it depends on how one looks at "exodus"........
August 1986.......Gxxr read POP at corps week -- soon many started exiting
1987..............JAL, RD and others spoke out -- "the exodus" had begun
1988..............More clergy/leaders left ----- "the twi exodus" was in full swing
March 8, 1989.....LCM public stands against CGeer -- the infamous directive ensues
Most had ALREADY made their decision to leave throughout this 1988 year....and were just getting their ducks in a row.
:D-->
But yeah......I guess 1989 might be the best year to clarify it.
sky
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Belle
It was a serious question. I guess that explains why I never heard the names Johnny Townsend and Ricardo Caballero.
I got involved in the 90's and by that time history had already been re-written to take them out of the storybooks.
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jardinero
Belle:
We know your question was serious, but it really shows you weren't told much about the earlier twi.
J*hnny T*wnsend was in twi since the 60's - - came shortly after doing time in the Army (I think it was the Army). He married Naomi who was in the 1st Corps (they are still married and live in Beavercreek, OH).
He was one of VP's early assistants and one of the few (like Donnie Fugit) who was allowed to teach PFAL live. He also spent a lot of time as a Limb Leader in Kansas - - also did time in NY and CA. He was one of the more "mature" younger people VP relied on who was instrumental in helping build the ministry from the 60s through the 80s. Could always be counted on to "put out fires". (He came into Calif. in 1976 or so when the previous Limb guy was involved in a sex scandal, etc., and came to restore "order").
He was at HQ quite a bit off and on over the years. So when POP .... hit the fan, he was naturally one of the choices to help "return the ministry to God's Word".
Yes, he is still running Geer classes - - I believe the only one licensed in Ohio. Has a number of old time PFAL grads in the area he still fellowships with.
I don't know all of Ricardo's background, but his father was very high up in gov't in Argentina when Ricardo got involved in the ministry. He graduated from the 7th Corps and he and his wife ran Argentina for a number of years. Not too many years after POP, he and his wife split, she continuing to run Argentina for twi. He's remarried now, but I don't know what he is doing.
Why he was brought in to help as a Trustee after POP, I have no idea. Perhaps some of the folks who were at HQ at the time might know better than me. I will say, he's a very sweet, kind man.
J.
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skyrider
For one thing.....cgeer was the one DIRECTING twi's trustees "how to fix the problems." Cgeer was 7th corps and Rxcardo was 7th corps as well.
I could be wrong on this.....but I seem to remember something where cgeer said that Rxcardo had great leadership qualities (country coord. of Argentina), strong integrity and a pure heart.
For 2 1/2 years......cgeer was the man "in charge" which turned twi on its ear.
:D-->
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jardinero
Oh yeah, duh. I fogot cgeer was 7th also! Poor R*cardo. Probably didn't know what a snake pit he was walking into!
Thanks, Sky.
J.
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excathedra
yeah snake geer figured he knew who he could get slithering under his control. looks like he failed with ricardo but johnny is still doing so
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Ham
Funny so far. If they ever did "publish" a real history, it would probably look like one of those documents people get from the CIA with the freedom of information act- whole pages blacked out..
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Jim
Jardinero wrote about J.T.
The previous limb guy would have been D*l D*ncan? I never heard anything about that. Can you share anything?
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alfakat
no, Jim -- good ole T** B****p, 2nd kork guy. This was ministry year 75/76 when 1rst kork went back to hq after 3 years on field.
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Jim
Of course, you're right. It's been a long time. I still didn't hear anything about it.
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