I never heard Joe Morgan's list so I don't know if he would consider that wicked line drive one or not,Johniam....Another I thought of,tho it would be scored as a steal of home,is catcher gets crossed by the pitcher,so he runs out to the mound to straighten out the signs,only he forgets to call time....Runner on third,seeing nobody covering home,dashes in and scores...
I don't know the rules that good, but I thought that the runner has the right to the base path and like LU said that it's possible for, say, a fielder to knock over a runner before actually fielding the ball, or something like that.
The runner would stay at third on catcher's interference. Unless the bases were loaded, but the premise of a runner tagging at second and going to third implies that is not the case. And if the bases do become loaded, like through walks, then the runner would have made it to third without moving over on the fly ball.
Johniam,I know the runner is out if the ball hits him...If the fielder is in line to field the ball the runner cannot just run into him...I'm no umpire,but it may be like the 'charging foul' in basketball...Whoever gets to the space first has the right to it...
The fielder does have the right away if he is fielding the ball. But that does not negate the fact that obstruction (interference by the fielder) IS possible, and it is therefore a way the runner can score.
Yes. At least one way. Two singles; batters thrown out trying to stretch their hits. Three singles to load the bases. Sixth batter hits a bouncer down the third base line which strikes the runner who was on third in fair territory. (Runner should and almost always do lead off on the foul side of the line). Runner is out for interference, but batter by the rulebook is credited with a base hit. Six hits, no runs.
Lifted,that's pretty good,tho I didn't know the batter would get credited with a hit in your scenario....
The way I thought of would be your scenario except the batter hits a squibbler over the shortstop's head...The runner on third,who happens to also be deaf,thinks there is only one out and only strays a few feet off of third,not hearing the third base coach yell "Go! Go!"...The other baserunners,who are running on contact,all reach their respective next base,as well as the batter reaching first safely....But the runner that started on second passes the deaf guy who was on third,being called out before the run scores and with the batter getting a hit...
Normally, the batter will not be credited with a hit if any preceeding runner is put out before reaching the next base if he is forced to vacate his original base by the batter or a following runner. My scenario is an exception which is specifically covered in the scoring rules. In Simon's scenario, the runner who is out had already reached the next base; he is out for passing the preceeding runner. The runner on third never reaches home, but neither is he put out. So, after further reflection, unless I later find a rule contradicting it, I would say Simon's scenario is correct as well...that is, the batter would be credited with a hit.
P.S. A runner who is not forced to advance doesnt have to for the batter to have a hit. This happens often; such as runner on second, batter gets an infield hit to third, runner on second holding. Batter is credited with a base hit.
Ok Lifted,w/o getting too technical,this sequence actually came up in a game that my kid was pitching a no-hitter in(gloat-gloat) and I was never satisfied with the ump's ruling...
The other team had loaded the bases with one out via a walk and two errors...Batter hit a short fly(but too far to be called an infield fly rule)...Second baseman couldn't reach it and it dropped seemingly for a hit...Alertly second baseman picked up the ball and threw to second forcing out the runner on first(No-hitter still intact)..Just as alertly,the shortstop,after forcing the guy at second,threw to the third baseman,who was standing on the bag....The throw was high,and the runner slid under the tag...However,the ump also ruled that runner out on the forceout...The other team argued that the force was no longer intact because the guy was already forced out at second...The ump held firm saying that when the bases are loaded,each runner must go to the next base and that it didn't matter whether the preceding runner was forced out...Furthermore,he ruled,the runner on third made it to home before all this was completed and he ruled that the run counted....Confused??
I still don't get the ruling,but my kid was credited with pitching a no-hit one run game...
From your description sounds like the ump blew the second out call...once the runner at first is forced at second, the runner at second should no longer be subject to the force. However, the no hitter is of course still good.
Some of the kids leagues cant always get top notch umpires. Or a lot of them. I work mostly with the kids, but I am certified and qualified to work adult amateur games. Theoretically, I could work the local minor league games in a pinch, but that is not going to happen.
Lifted,this ump was actually one of the older more respected umpires in the league...When he was explaining his ruling to me,he said that if there is only a man on first and you step on first to get the batter out,the runner doesn't have to go to second....But with the bases loaded and the batter already on first,each runner is now a potential force out at the next base,regardless of the order they are forced out...And the run counted because the batter reached first and runner scored before the other two forces and I'm getting a real headache just typing this stuff...
You're interpretation makes more sense to me....But even after the dust had cleared and I asked the ump to 'splain his ruling the following week,he was sure he made the proper ruling...
All right,as long as I'm in post a reply mode...
Who's the one player,though never traded,that played his home games in three different major league cities...No fair if you have to look it up...
OK, ready for this? I saw a game on TV in 1963. Cardinals vs Dodgers. Cards batting, Ken Boyer on 2nd base, Charlie James on first. Batter hits a single to right field. 3rd base coach holds Boyer at 3rd, James doesn't see it, so both Boyer and James are standing on 3rd base as a Dodger fielder walks the ball toward the base. All of a sudden each runner breaks for the opposite base and they were both safe. My dad was laughing for a half hour over that.
But if the runners had been on second and third and the ball had been hit to either the first or second basemen, and the same thing happened, would that have counted?
Johnuar,you got the right team,'twas a position player,tho...
If I understand your question right,yes it would have counted because,as Lifted said,runners do not have to move up if there's an open base before them
Hank Aaron - His rookie year was '54, but the Boston Braves moved to Milwaukee after the '52 season I think, so he would have only played in 2 cities.
Eddie Matthews - I don't know what his rookie year was, but I grew up rooting for the Detroit Tigers and I clearly remember that at the end of the '67 season, Matthews had 510 career homers; 1 behind Mel Ott. So Matthews played for the Tigers until he hit 2 homers to pass Mel Ott, which took him a little over a week, then promptly retired. Was it he?
Joe Adcock - I don't know that much about him, except I remember he was a power hitting 1st baseman who played on the '57 championship team, and played in the '60's too.
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simonzelotes
I never heard Joe Morgan's list so I don't know if he would consider that wicked line drive one or not,Johniam....Another I thought of,tho it would be scored as a steal of home,is catcher gets crossed by the pitcher,so he runs out to the mound to straighten out the signs,only he forgets to call time....Runner on third,seeing nobody covering home,dashes in and scores...
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simonzelotes
Okay,lifted,that's good...That should count...Are you one of the "blues"?
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def59
What about catcher's interference?
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simonzelotes
I think the batter is awarded first,but the runner would stay at third...
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excathedra
what about fan interference
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johniam
I don't know the rules that good, but I thought that the runner has the right to the base path and like LU said that it's possible for, say, a fielder to knock over a runner before actually fielding the ball, or something like that.
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Lifted Up
The runner would stay at third on catcher's interference. Unless the bases were loaded, but the premise of a runner tagging at second and going to third implies that is not the case. And if the bases do become loaded, like through walks, then the runner would have made it to third without moving over on the fly ball.
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simonzelotes
Excie,who said women were allowed
Johniam,I know the runner is out if the ball hits him...If the fielder is in line to field the ball the runner cannot just run into him...I'm no umpire,but it may be like the 'charging foul' in basketball...Whoever gets to the space first has the right to it...
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Lifted Up
The fielder does have the right away if he is fielding the ball. But that does not negate the fact that obstruction (interference by the fielder) IS possible, and it is therefore a way the runner can score.
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simonzelotes
If obstruction counts,that would make about 12...
All right,one more question....Is it possible to get six hits in one half of an inning and not score a run?
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Lifted Up
Yes. At least one way. Two singles; batters thrown out trying to stretch their hits. Three singles to load the bases. Sixth batter hits a bouncer down the third base line which strikes the runner who was on third in fair territory. (Runner should and almost always do lead off on the foul side of the line). Runner is out for interference, but batter by the rulebook is credited with a base hit. Six hits, no runs.
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simonzelotes
Lifted,that's pretty good,tho I didn't know the batter would get credited with a hit in your scenario....
The way I thought of would be your scenario except the batter hits a squibbler over the shortstop's head...The runner on third,who happens to also be deaf,thinks there is only one out and only strays a few feet off of third,not hearing the third base coach yell "Go! Go!"...The other baserunners,who are running on contact,all reach their respective next base,as well as the batter reaching first safely....But the runner that started on second passes the deaf guy who was on third,being called out before the run scores and with the batter getting a hit...
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Lifted Up
Rule 10.05(e) on my scenario. On yours, I don't know; I havent found the rule to confirm or deny it yet.
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Tom Strange
What LU? You mean there's no rule regarding deaf runners that get passed on the base path by their team mate?
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Lifted Up
Normally, the batter will not be credited with a hit if any preceeding runner is put out before reaching the next base if he is forced to vacate his original base by the batter or a following runner. My scenario is an exception which is specifically covered in the scoring rules. In Simon's scenario, the runner who is out had already reached the next base; he is out for passing the preceeding runner. The runner on third never reaches home, but neither is he put out. So, after further reflection, unless I later find a rule contradicting it, I would say Simon's scenario is correct as well...that is, the batter would be credited with a hit.
P.S. A runner who is not forced to advance doesnt have to for the batter to have a hit. This happens often; such as runner on second, batter gets an infield hit to third, runner on second holding. Batter is credited with a base hit.
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simonzelotes
Ok Lifted,w/o getting too technical,this sequence actually came up in a game that my kid was pitching a no-hitter in(gloat-gloat) and I was never satisfied with the ump's ruling...
The other team had loaded the bases with one out via a walk and two errors...Batter hit a short fly(but too far to be called an infield fly rule)...Second baseman couldn't reach it and it dropped seemingly for a hit...Alertly second baseman picked up the ball and threw to second forcing out the runner on first(No-hitter still intact)..Just as alertly,the shortstop,after forcing the guy at second,threw to the third baseman,who was standing on the bag....The throw was high,and the runner slid under the tag...However,the ump also ruled that runner out on the forceout...The other team argued that the force was no longer intact because the guy was already forced out at second...The ump held firm saying that when the bases are loaded,each runner must go to the next base and that it didn't matter whether the preceding runner was forced out...Furthermore,he ruled,the runner on third made it to home before all this was completed and he ruled that the run counted....Confused??
I still don't get the ruling,but my kid was credited with pitching a no-hit one run game...
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Lifted Up
From your description sounds like the ump blew the second out call...once the runner at first is forced at second, the runner at second should no longer be subject to the force. However, the no hitter is of course still good.
Some of the kids leagues cant always get top notch umpires. Or a lot of them. I work mostly with the kids, but I am certified and qualified to work adult amateur games. Theoretically, I could work the local minor league games in a pinch, but that is not going to happen.
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simonzelotes
Lifted,this ump was actually one of the older more respected umpires in the league...When he was explaining his ruling to me,he said that if there is only a man on first and you step on first to get the batter out,the runner doesn't have to go to second....But with the bases loaded and the batter already on first,each runner is now a potential force out at the next base,regardless of the order they are forced out...And the run counted because the batter reached first and runner scored before the other two forces and I'm getting a real headache just typing this stuff...
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Lifted Up
Doesnt matter when the batter gets to first. Once a runner is forced out, the force is off for any preceeding runners. (Not for following runners).
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simonzelotes
Lifted,
You're interpretation makes more sense to me....But even after the dust had cleared and I asked the ump to 'splain his ruling the following week,he was sure he made the proper ruling...
All right,as long as I'm in post a reply mode...
Who's the one player,though never traded,that played his home games in three different major league cities...No fair if you have to look it up...
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johniam
Is it Warren Spahn? Or Lou Burdette? Gotta be that team.
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johniam
OK, ready for this? I saw a game on TV in 1963. Cardinals vs Dodgers. Cards batting, Ken Boyer on 2nd base, Charlie James on first. Batter hits a single to right field. 3rd base coach holds Boyer at 3rd, James doesn't see it, so both Boyer and James are standing on 3rd base as a Dodger fielder walks the ball toward the base. All of a sudden each runner breaks for the opposite base and they were both safe. My dad was laughing for a half hour over that.
But if the runners had been on second and third and the ball had been hit to either the first or second basemen, and the same thing happened, would that have counted?
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simonzelotes
Johnuar,you got the right team,'twas a position player,tho...
If I understand your question right,yes it would have counted because,as Lifted said,runners do not have to move up if there's an open base before them
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johniam
I considered 3 others:
Hank Aaron - His rookie year was '54, but the Boston Braves moved to Milwaukee after the '52 season I think, so he would have only played in 2 cities.
Eddie Matthews - I don't know what his rookie year was, but I grew up rooting for the Detroit Tigers and I clearly remember that at the end of the '67 season, Matthews had 510 career homers; 1 behind Mel Ott. So Matthews played for the Tigers until he hit 2 homers to pass Mel Ott, which took him a little over a week, then promptly retired. Was it he?
Joe Adcock - I don't know that much about him, except I remember he was a power hitting 1st baseman who played on the '57 championship team, and played in the '60's too.
I can't think of any other candidates.
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