I always wondered why they kept the second rate security guard around. Can't be because of his in depth spiritual perception and awareness- maybe ole Rose thinks he looks good in the uniform, heh heh..
I take no offence to your posts. I've been posting about TWI since early 2000 and have come across many a-poster who left before or during DA FOG, who has trouble accepting what the ministry really turned into... I'm not offended by it - likewise, I wish things had been as sweet as I heard about from those of you who were in the ministry when it was young and a little more innocent...
My beef really isn't with those who are in disbelief - but those who sport the "get over it" 'tude and don't understand why we talk about it... or think we're being cry babies... or that the decisions we made were simple ones with no cost involved - HA! If they're so well-balanced, why are they here at the Cafe, in the About the Way forum? It's like someone walking into a public restroom to b!tch about the smell, you know? Makes no sence.
Like they do in the olympics we can throw out the low score and I'll plead "all of the above." With the following qualifications.
1. I knew Naomi Poling. I watched her grow up from a kid, to a dependable teen, college graduate and remember the thrill I felt when she told me of her job in Washington D.C.
If you remember from my LEAD story, Her father Art was one of the first to care for me when I didn't even know how injured I was. The Polings were a great family, Naomi was on her way to becoming one of the truly great women in our country. A future Condoleeza Rice was not an exaggeration. If you knew Naomi, she was a PROMISE of that.
We were crushed, I wept personally when I heard on the evening news of the plane crash. They scrolled the names of the people in the crash and I saw her's it stopped mt in my tracks.
Had I been in the room when Craig spoke of her as you say he did. I would have melted HIS face.
Art Poling left TWI because resigned. He was part of the original "President's Cabinet" and would not continue along the path LCM was taking the ministry. He told Craig to HIS face that he would no longer work for HIM, because he, LCM was NOT working for GOD. Art is a BIG guy, a gentle bear with a babyface and a gentile, soft voice. He could be very imposing because he'd gently shoot very straight in such a way you knew when he was "all business." Art was very well respected in the ministry and when he left, others who respected him left too.
Craig didn't like that. Vindictive coward that he IS, he lashed out at Art at the incident of his beloved daughter's death.
Satan killed Naomi and those on the plane as they were on a mission that was part of the process of making the WORLD a BETTER place. Naomi was so talented. She walked through life and school like a hot knife through butter. She had just "walked right in" to heights Craig knew he'd neve reach in a million years. LCM was jealous... PERIOD.
What's Timmy Martindale doing these days?
2. I DID misinterpret what I did see in some very specifc way in some very specific areas.
ChasUFarley says she's built like a brickHOUSE! Cool.... I came to HQ three years out of High School. I had been a wrestler since sixth grade (a varsity starter, senior year) and a varsity football, Quad A level, player (starter) in Western, PA. Plus I was a green belt in Tae Quon Do with black belt level skills (I hadn't tested for the higher belts).
If you've seen the movie Friday Night Lights, that is the type of football program I played, and excelled in. I had graduated HS with highest honors and was a Dean's List student in Art School.
In the athletic program I grew up in since being a little kid, having your face melted meant the coach CARED about you. Our coaches were beasts on the field that had you given me a gun I'd have shot them to get them to "STOP the madness!" Off the field, in the locker room, classroom or wherever, whenever we needed them they were mentors; father figures whom we knew, to a man they would do ANYTHING they could for us all, to a man. From the last person off the bench on a "100 pt victory" to the biggest All State star. We ALL knew these men cared for us.
What we view as torturous treatment, they proved to us was more like they were construction workers pounding us with hammers to build us into champions. The proof came when we would roll over all but the finest teams and flatten them like in cartoons. We knew we were champions, only sometimes the other team would score more points than we, but not often.
So. When I came to HQ. I was afraid of no thing and no body. LCM put on his pants the same way I did, one leg at a time. Same w/ VP. When I first saw someone get their face melted, I thought I was seeing the same thing I saw from my coaches. I saw things I didn't necessarily agree with. That stuff was filtered through my own values and what I THOUGHT I was seeing.
I stayed there, nine more years and worked hard to build it. There were all kinds of BAD things going on all around, mixed with other stuff individuals who THOUGHT they were building and doing a good thing. VP. LCM and others simply hid the worst of what they did for a time.
Then LCM finally became bold enough that he really doesn't give a damn. Actually, scratch that. Looking back, it's more likely that Rosalie puppeted LCM through all of his "ranting & raving years" knowing full well that he'd hang himself one day.
How coincidental is it the SHE was right there to pick up the presidency. How did Rosalie actually get to be president anyway?
How did Rosalie actually get to be president anyway?
That's probably fodder for another thread but I would dare say it probably has something to do with a lot of DIRT on someone, which caused her to have some leverage... being buddies with his wife probably didn't hurt either... Some of our posters who are in the KNOW on this - Radar, Catcup, Linda Z, etc., could probably really speak to this...
I used the situation that Mrs. Allen was in as an extreme – but well-known situation – where someone was victimized. Not by any choosing of her own. You think “she made out nicely” when she was RAPED and then settled a lawsuit out of court – made a choice as a person who wasn’t helpless – in other words, she choose to be a victim of a VIOLENT CRIME? That’s insane!
ChasUFarley, what violent crime? Geeze, and they think I'M on drugs. The Allens had the perfect opportunity to get all the facts out in the open, under oath, in open court, but since they didn't and chose da money instead, we'll never really know if she got raped, now would we? But as far as I understand the facts, she was sexually harassed. She could have opened the door, and left. There were no allegations of physical restraint. That's different from rape. But I would have loved to read the testimony, wouldn't you have?
ChasUFarley, what violent crime? Geeze, and they think I'M on drugs. The Allens had the perfect opportunity to get all the facts out in the open, under oath, in open court, but since they didn't and chose da money instead, we'll never really know if she got raped, now would we? But as far as I understand the facts, she was sexually harassed. She could have opened the door, and left. There were no allegations of physical restraint. That's different from rape. But I would have loved to read the testimony, wouldn't you have?
Guys....no doubt that when one knew a woman personally that *understood* the unique *needs* of the mog....and felt that their *service* was an honor.....who bought into it and professed as to it being no big deal.....it might be logical for them to conclude that all other women should feel likewise.
Oldies..that was a really sick thing to say....it is reprehensible and shows how off kilter your view of the world is.
I have heard about it (rape) and wont even to pretend to know how some of the best people of God were coheresed into it (does not matter). What I do know is. It was a lie there is no way God would approve. MOG? No it was MOg (way speak). It was not just one as jal has pointed out in his own words. It was "Men Of god" jal included.
Like I have said before in posts. twi has been of satan since the very early days and still is today. It is just such ashame that people that love God had to be hurt or killed (just the way people were treated IMHO drove them to suicide) by twi and their heartless cruel and ungodlessness treatment of people.
ChasUFarley, what violent crime? Geeze, and they think I'M on drugs. The Allens had the perfect opportunity to get all the facts out in the open, under oath, in open court, but since they didn't and chose da money instead, we'll never really know if she got raped, now would we? But as far as I understand the facts, she was sexually harassed. She could have opened the door, and left. There were no allegations of physical restraint. That's different from rape. But I would have loved to read the testimony, wouldn't you have?
Nothing sick about it. He's THINKING FOR HIMSELF!!! What a concept! If she didn't say "NO!" it's NOT RAPE!
I merely submit that by constantly saying mind control this and cult that...there's no room to get healed. There's only the appearance of blaming others rather than taking control.
I totally agree Johniam. And thx for the support.
Well if you want to turn a blind eye to what it really is. I see your point.
Belive what you will about what twi did to you and believe what it did to others. Each person is dirrerent.
Mind Control: I think that all depends how far you put your mind into twi. Some threw their whole mind into twi so hell yeah it was controlled.
Cult: Well call it what you will. It was a cult.
I have just widend my view since I have been out to see how others feel about twi. Maybe if I just looked straight ahead and jus keep one point of view I would not hate twi as much as I do now. I have seen to much hurt to others to not think mind control was not real.
Noone who was raped will tell you about it here in this forum. At least I would hope they wouldn't. They should not relive this in an open forum for your benefit.
If you really want to investigate it and find out for yourself. You are going to have to search it out. And you better have a heart of gold my friend, cause you don't go messing around with people when they say something like this happened to them. You better just back off and give 'em some room.
In general, rape victims are not believed. Because the one's that they confess to have hard hearts and will not listen. Or they just don't want to believe it because of their own experience with the ones who did the wrong.
And I wouldn't want anyone to relive it in open court if they could avoid it.
Look, this thread has moved on, and I don't want to get into this discussion anymore. But back to the main topic of "You Can't Leave", I am still cracking up over a post that Out And About posted on the first page. O and A said;
quote:
I told my best friend who was still in that I was happier now that I was out.
She said, "No you're not!"
Man, O and A, that just cracks me up! "No you're not!!" That's like someone looking you in the eye and saying something like; "You are not a human being! You are a carrot!"
And with people like those, well, we know where they belong. Maybe in an institution where the men in the white suits "take care" of them, hmm?
Here's the article detailing what the complaint was against Martindale - the "r" word is in there for y'all who don't remember it the first time... It's quite a shopping list!
Since there wasn't a counter lawsuit it's probably pretty safe to assume that they had evidence beyond reasonable doubt.
Also, anyone who's ever been a complaintant in a legal action such as this will tell you that you have to be ready to take it all the way through the process - you can't assume you're going to get an offer to settle or even win the case. The Allen's could have lost and been sued in return - neither happened... You do the math.
In my opinion this is on-topic with this thread because it shows the mentality that upper leadership had - the president of the ministry - had with people. People were possessions - not humans - they were to be used. When they were no longer useful then they could be cast aside like a broken toy.
Sure, people CHOOSE to stay in - but what was the motive? Was it to keep their family intact? Or because they thought things might get better? Like myself, I don't think that many of them would be ready to leave until the cost of staying became more than the cost of leaving - once people had less and less to loose, they found the exit sign...
I really wish some of the upper leadership-types that left would post on this thread because I know from previous threads that some of them really got a ration for leaving... Some of them have some rather 'enlightening' stories... But then, they're just mindless victims, right?
I don't know where you got your facts from about the Allens lawsuit but you are off base with it...
The word "RAPE" is in the complaint that was filed. If the Allen's couldn't prove it then their butts would be fried - that didn't happen. There were alligations of physical restraint. There were many alligations - check out the link I posted above and get the facts...
I don't have a transcript of the court proceedings because they're sealed - NO ONE has it. NO ONE knows the settlement terms either, so I don't know how you get off saying that "she made out nicely" in the settlement.
There's other articles too in the GSC archieves - PJRoberge has some stuff on his web site too, from my understanding. I don't have time to do all the legwork and get links for you. You'd do well to get some more information about it...
I don't know where you got your facts from about the Allens lawsuit but you are off base with it...
Am I? Ok. Whatever.
quote:
The word "RAPE" is in the complaint that was filed. If the Allen's couldn't prove it then their butts would be fried - that didn't happen. There were alligations of physical restraint. There were many alligations - check out the link I posted above and get the facts...
ChasUFarley, do you know what an allegation is?
From Merriam Webster's Tenth Collegiate Dictionary, an allegation is:
1) the act of alleging;
2) a positive assertion, specif: a statement by a party to a legal action of what the party undertakes to prove;
3) an assertion unsupported and by implication regarded as unsupportable.
In short, an allegation is not proof. That's why we go to court, to prove allegations.
And so when you say that Ms. Allen was raped, you are believing their allegation, which is to be viewed as unsupportable because it was never proven in court. Too bad too. They had a possibility of doing so.
The A--ens sure had enough *proof* to make twi pay dearly through the nose...Hah!!
The A--ens ALSO had enough *proof* to get the mog thrown out on his ear...that in itself was an enormous accomplishment....Hah Hah!!!!
The A--ens got waydale going which led the way for thousands to make their departure....another extrodinary accomplishment....HAh Hah Hah!!!!!
Sounds to me like they kicked bu tt all the way around and deserve our respect ....
You show yourself to have zero empathy or compassion...Oldies, in fact it almost sounds like you are a just little jealous of the attention that the women recieved...
No doubt though, I am certain that they would have much rather just been permitted to live their lives and serve God in peace....unmolested by the mog...as it should have been.
Nobody wants to be raped no matter how big the monetary award is....that is a callous cruel statement Oldies.
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Ham
I always wondered why they kept the second rate security guard around. Can't be because of his in depth spiritual perception and awareness- maybe ole Rose thinks he looks good in the uniform, heh heh..
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Ham
"Well boys, gotta go. Rendevous with da prez tonight ya know. Keep an eye on the fountain.."
"OK boss. Here, take a couple shots of demerol, should make it a little more pleasant.."
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ChasUFarley
HCW -
I take no offence to your posts. I've been posting about TWI since early 2000 and have come across many a-poster who left before or during DA FOG, who has trouble accepting what the ministry really turned into... I'm not offended by it - likewise, I wish things had been as sweet as I heard about from those of you who were in the ministry when it was young and a little more innocent...
My beef really isn't with those who are in disbelief - but those who sport the "get over it" 'tude and don't understand why we talk about it... or think we're being cry babies... or that the decisions we made were simple ones with no cost involved - HA! If they're so well-balanced, why are they here at the Cafe, in the About the Way forum? It's like someone walking into a public restroom to b!tch about the smell, you know? Makes no sence.
Peace, HCW.
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HCW
WordWolf said:
Like they do in the olympics we can throw out the low score and I'll plead "all of the above." With the following qualifications.
1. I knew Naomi Poling. I watched her grow up from a kid, to a dependable teen, college graduate and remember the thrill I felt when she told me of her job in Washington D.C.
If you remember from my LEAD story, Her father Art was one of the first to care for me when I didn't even know how injured I was. The Polings were a great family, Naomi was on her way to becoming one of the truly great women in our country. A future Condoleeza Rice was not an exaggeration. If you knew Naomi, she was a PROMISE of that.
We were crushed, I wept personally when I heard on the evening news of the plane crash. They scrolled the names of the people in the crash and I saw her's it stopped mt in my tracks.
Had I been in the room when Craig spoke of her as you say he did. I would have melted HIS face.
Art Poling left TWI because resigned. He was part of the original "President's Cabinet" and would not continue along the path LCM was taking the ministry. He told Craig to HIS face that he would no longer work for HIM, because he, LCM was NOT working for GOD. Art is a BIG guy, a gentle bear with a babyface and a gentile, soft voice. He could be very imposing because he'd gently shoot very straight in such a way you knew when he was "all business." Art was very well respected in the ministry and when he left, others who respected him left too.
Craig didn't like that. Vindictive coward that he IS, he lashed out at Art at the incident of his beloved daughter's death.
Satan killed Naomi and those on the plane as they were on a mission that was part of the process of making the WORLD a BETTER place. Naomi was so talented. She walked through life and school like a hot knife through butter. She had just "walked right in" to heights Craig knew he'd neve reach in a million years. LCM was jealous... PERIOD.
What's Timmy Martindale doing these days?
2. I DID misinterpret what I did see in some very specifc way in some very specific areas.
ChasUFarley says she's built like a brickHOUSE! Cool.... I came to HQ three years out of High School. I had been a wrestler since sixth grade (a varsity starter, senior year) and a varsity football, Quad A level, player (starter) in Western, PA. Plus I was a green belt in Tae Quon Do with black belt level skills (I hadn't tested for the higher belts).
If you've seen the movie Friday Night Lights, that is the type of football program I played, and excelled in. I had graduated HS with highest honors and was a Dean's List student in Art School.
In the athletic program I grew up in since being a little kid, having your face melted meant the coach CARED about you. Our coaches were beasts on the field that had you given me a gun I'd have shot them to get them to "STOP the madness!" Off the field, in the locker room, classroom or wherever, whenever we needed them they were mentors; father figures whom we knew, to a man they would do ANYTHING they could for us all, to a man. From the last person off the bench on a "100 pt victory" to the biggest All State star. We ALL knew these men cared for us.
What we view as torturous treatment, they proved to us was more like they were construction workers pounding us with hammers to build us into champions. The proof came when we would roll over all but the finest teams and flatten them like in cartoons. We knew we were champions, only sometimes the other team would score more points than we, but not often.
So. When I came to HQ. I was afraid of no thing and no body. LCM put on his pants the same way I did, one leg at a time. Same w/ VP. When I first saw someone get their face melted, I thought I was seeing the same thing I saw from my coaches. I saw things I didn't necessarily agree with. That stuff was filtered through my own values and what I THOUGHT I was seeing.
I stayed there, nine more years and worked hard to build it. There were all kinds of BAD things going on all around, mixed with other stuff individuals who THOUGHT they were building and doing a good thing. VP. LCM and others simply hid the worst of what they did for a time.
Then LCM finally became bold enough that he really doesn't give a damn. Actually, scratch that. Looking back, it's more likely that Rosalie puppeted LCM through all of his "ranting & raving years" knowing full well that he'd hang himself one day.
How coincidental is it the SHE was right there to pick up the presidency. How did Rosalie actually get to be president anyway?
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ChasUFarley
That's probably fodder for another thread but I would dare say it probably has something to do with a lot of DIRT on someone, which caused her to have some leverage... being buddies with his wife probably didn't hurt either... Some of our posters who are in the KNOW on this - Radar, Catcup, Linda Z, etc., could probably really speak to this...
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Belle
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oldiesman
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HCW
Cool ChasUFarley. I feel you
A little postscript to my last post. When people sign on in an athletic context they sign up to be hamered, bended, molded, etc.
Nobody signed on to be treated like property when they went to a fellowship. The shock of seeing how it really is, is devastating to say the least.
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justloafing
Are you for real?
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alfakat
yeah, Om, everybody here is immature and delusional, liars even...but you...riiiight.
Your last comment defines you like nothing and no one else could....
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vickles
Oldies, I really can't fathom you are for real. If you are and really believe what you say then you are one really dumb person.
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Steve!
Chas, you're not serious, are you?
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rascal
Guys....no doubt that when one knew a woman personally that *understood* the unique *needs* of the mog....and felt that their *service* was an honor.....who bought into it and professed as to it being no big deal.....it might be logical for them to conclude that all other women should feel likewise.
Oldies..that was a really sick thing to say....it is reprehensible and shows how off kilter your view of the world is.
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justloafing
I have heard about it (rape) and wont even to pretend to know how some of the best people of God were coheresed into it (does not matter). What I do know is. It was a lie there is no way God would approve. MOG? No it was MOg (way speak). It was not just one as jal has pointed out in his own words. It was "Men Of god" jal included.
Like I have said before in posts. twi has been of satan since the very early days and still is today. It is just such ashame that people that love God had to be hurt or killed (just the way people were treated IMHO drove them to suicide) by twi and their heartless cruel and ungodlessness treatment of people.
Unlike some. I dont need to read details.
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johniam
Nothing sick about it. He's THINKING FOR HIMSELF!!! What a concept! If she didn't say "NO!" it's NOT RAPE!
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justloafing
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CM
Oldiesman-
Noone who was raped will tell you about it here in this forum. At least I would hope they wouldn't. They should not relive this in an open forum for your benefit.
If you really want to investigate it and find out for yourself. You are going to have to search it out. And you better have a heart of gold my friend, cause you don't go messing around with people when they say something like this happened to them. You better just back off and give 'em some room.
In general, rape victims are not believed. Because the one's that they confess to have hard hearts and will not listen. Or they just don't want to believe it because of their own experience with the ones who did the wrong.
And I wouldn't want anyone to relive it in open court if they could avoid it.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
oldies send me the drugs you are on i could make us a a lot of abs money!
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J0nny Ling0
Look, this thread has moved on, and I don't want to get into this discussion anymore. But back to the main topic of "You Can't Leave", I am still cracking up over a post that Out And About posted on the first page. O and A said;
Man, O and A, that just cracks me up! "No you're not!!" That's like someone looking you in the eye and saying something like; "You are not a human being! You are a carrot!"
And with people like those, well, we know where they belong. Maybe in an institution where the men in the white suits "take care" of them, hmm?
"No you're not!"
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ChasUFarley
Allen Lawsuit
Here's the article detailing what the complaint was against Martindale - the "r" word is in there for y'all who don't remember it the first time... It's quite a shopping list!
Since there wasn't a counter lawsuit it's probably pretty safe to assume that they had evidence beyond reasonable doubt.
Also, anyone who's ever been a complaintant in a legal action such as this will tell you that you have to be ready to take it all the way through the process - you can't assume you're going to get an offer to settle or even win the case. The Allen's could have lost and been sued in return - neither happened... You do the math.
In my opinion this is on-topic with this thread because it shows the mentality that upper leadership had - the president of the ministry - had with people. People were possessions - not humans - they were to be used. When they were no longer useful then they could be cast aside like a broken toy.
Sure, people CHOOSE to stay in - but what was the motive? Was it to keep their family intact? Or because they thought things might get better? Like myself, I don't think that many of them would be ready to leave until the cost of staying became more than the cost of leaving - once people had less and less to loose, they found the exit sign...
I really wish some of the upper leadership-types that left would post on this thread because I know from previous threads that some of them really got a ration for leaving... Some of them have some rather 'enlightening' stories... But then, they're just mindless victims, right?
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ChasUFarley
Oldies --
I don't know where you got your facts from about the Allens lawsuit but you are off base with it...
The word "RAPE" is in the complaint that was filed. If the Allen's couldn't prove it then their butts would be fried - that didn't happen. There were alligations of physical restraint. There were many alligations - check out the link I posted above and get the facts...
I don't have a transcript of the court proceedings because they're sealed - NO ONE has it. NO ONE knows the settlement terms either, so I don't know how you get off saying that "she made out nicely" in the settlement.
There's other articles too in the GSC archieves - PJRoberge has some stuff on his web site too, from my understanding. I don't have time to do all the legwork and get links for you. You'd do well to get some more information about it...
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oldiesman
From Merriam Webster's Tenth Collegiate Dictionary, an allegation is:
1) the act of alleging;
2) a positive assertion, specif: a statement by a party to a legal action of what the party undertakes to prove;
3) an assertion unsupported and by implication regarded as unsupportable.
In short, an allegation is not proof. That's why we go to court, to prove allegations.
And so when you say that Ms. Allen was raped, you are believing their allegation, which is to be viewed as unsupportable because it was never proven in court. Too bad too. They had a possibility of doing so.
You can believe what you want, its your head.
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rascal
The A--ens sure had enough *proof* to make twi pay dearly through the nose...Hah!!
The A--ens ALSO had enough *proof* to get the mog thrown out on his ear...that in itself was an enormous accomplishment....Hah Hah!!!!
The A--ens got waydale going which led the way for thousands to make their departure....another extrodinary accomplishment....HAh Hah Hah!!!!!
Sounds to me like they kicked bu tt all the way around and deserve our respect ....
You show yourself to have zero empathy or compassion...Oldies, in fact it almost sounds like you are a just little jealous of the attention that the women recieved...
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rascal
No doubt though, I am certain that they would have much rather just been permitted to live their lives and serve God in peace....unmolested by the mog...as it should have been.
Nobody wants to be raped no matter how big the monetary award is....that is a callous cruel statement Oldies.
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