It is by His grace alone, that any of us are alive - whether *in*, or *out*.
quote:
He had the nerve to say that we couldn't REALLY say my parents were born again because we never heard them speak in tongues. (They're freakin' Southern Baptists, for Pete's sake!! They'll NEVER speak in tongues!!) -->
Perhaps he has never heard the term "actions speak louder than words"? Or the other way of saying it -- "You're actions are so loud, I can't hear what you are saying"?
He seems to hear twi words pretty well, but does he see the actions of others -- or the actions of twi (for that matter)?
Do you think that might make some people scared to leave?
No.
First, no one can "make" you think something you don't choose to think for yourself, unless you are narcotized, perhaps.
Participants in twi-2 are responsible for their own thoughts, and think for themselves, no matter what idiotic suggestions are proposed. LCM is gone, anyway.
Instead of looking at twi-2 folks as helpless victims who can't leave, I see them as Christians who've made a choice where they want to be.
Might not be the choice I'd make, but it's a choice, nevertheless.
Unless a person is ready and wants to see reality, they just won't.
So even if, after getting free of twiTS you are hugely happy, have a great family life, a great career, and still love God...those who are blinded by false doctrines will STILL say that you are not happy. Or that of course you THINK you are doing better...it's just the "adversary" isn't scared of you anymore, so he's "letting" you prosper to lure others away from Gods true household.
If a person wants to be blinded, they will blinded.
BUT...you never know what God is working in their hearts to get them to freedom!
OM, again, you are showing your inability to see and understand the intense manipulation and perversion that goes on in TWI even to this day!
There are many people who are still "in" because, like I did for five years, they are fighting for their family because they know what TWI does to families when someone wants to leave. This is something you know nothing about nor can you comprehend it because of your cold TWI-1 loving heart.
LCM may be gone, but his doctrines, teachings and threats are still in full force! I know. I can't tell you how I know, but I know they are still teaching these things.
If you were in my position, what would you have said?
Unless God is telling you what to say, anything you say would be heard like on the Charlie Brown cartoons - "wa waa wa wa waaawa wa waa". Meaningless noise. Just like every single one of OM's posts.
Participants in twi-2 are responsible for their own thoughts, and think for themselves, no matter what idiotic suggestions are proposed. LCM is gone, anyway.
Oldies -- then what is your deduction about those in twi-I, or twi-3?? Were there no *idiotic suggestions* made there? And were we not responsible for our decisions, as well? -->
oldies have you ever heard of mine control?? they had me hook line and sinker, and now consider myself a very intellegent person, and did befor for that matter
My sister and I were talking about me and my last year or so in twitville. She asked me what I thought about things that were taught. I told her I remembered thinking a lot of things were BS, but I wouldn't dare step away from the household nor speak evil out loud about my thoughts because I was convinced my thoughts were wrong. Sheesh....that was a BIG joke! I think now it was the holy spirit working in my heart to prepare me for my exit out of that place! It took some time for me to get to the point of mutiny against twi, but it's been AWESOME since then!
I could have married a suitable man according to twit standards, and I could have been miserable for many years and feeling like I wasn't free to be me. My life now (and my hubby) is the best it's ever been! :D-->
I am sure many that were in 1,2,3 can tell you that times changed but the song still remains the same.
If you leave your a Grease Spot. Everyone taught that. Hell yeah it was mind control. It put you in the fish bowl looking out. Even after 18 years those teachings ring loud and clear between my ears. The sharpness and the fear they gave me don't have nearly the bite they once did but none the less they are still there.
I also know, once out I could speak my mind with out worrying about stepping on toes. I have been able to take so much more of what I know to be true out of the bible and apply it to my life and to be able to see others and their needs.
A spiritual world? I do think so. A Spiritual world as what twi taught? No way. The spiritual world they teach is their fantasy land to keep people in.
OM, again, you are showing your inability to see and understand the intense manipulation and perversion that goes on in TWI even to this day!
Belle;
I'm ignorant of the intense manipulation and perversion that you speak of. I've never experienced it. That is not said to rebut anything you say. I just don't know what TWI could do to someone who just didn't come to twig anymore, and changed their phone number.
I really don't see Oldie's comments as cold, I see them more 'real' than anything else. What can they actually DO to someone? Do they beat people? I know LCM used to yell abusive things & stuff like that.
Please take into account that I'm ignorant of what they do, OK? However, you speak of TWI having hold on people in terms that are used normally of wives who are trapped in abusive marriages/relationships.
Do they actually stalk you? Threaten actual harm, physical or otherwise? Again, I'm not trying to ridicule, just understand. From an outside perspective, when I hear intense in terms of manipulation and perversion I also hear 'criminal.'
For example: I know a guy who has an X-wife who is the poster child for the "X from HELL" club (female division). When they were divorcing there was enough intense manipulation and perversion to make pretty much anyone's (no matter what you've seen or experienced) jaw drop through the floor. During that, after they split and she'd call with the height of intensity, 'f-bombs" and heinous insults, all the threats, etc. you could imagine dropping all over the place.... the guy hung up the phone.
He'd joke around afterwards about how today's electronic phones lack the impact hanging up that the old cradle button models had. (You used to be able to slam the phone just right and put a 'pop!' in the other party's ear.) Now a little "bleep" or "boop!" is all you can get. Cell phones just go silent and they may not even know you actually hung up. You used to be able to give them a non-verbal "shutUP."
I'm rambling... At any rate. When the X-fromHell actually DID something. Like she hit him with a car, (intense and perverse) he dialed 911. She's now looking at a year in jail and/or 2yrs supervised probation, court ordered counseling, fines, court costs, retribution for thousands of dollars in medical bills & physical therapy, AND supervised visitation of the children they share. The children actually WITNESSED their mother intentionally hitting their father with a 2000lb car.
That, from an outside POV is intense manipulation and perversion that goes on. And. In the category of intense, and perversion, based on what's available. The story above is not-all that-intense, or perverse.
You speak of doctrines, teachings, and threats that are still in force. Can you enlighten those of us who may not have experienced what you speak of? Its difficult for folks to empathsize when we have little idea of what you're talking about.
Please, notice from the story above that the guy enlisted outside help from the proper authorities. I would think such help could actually bring twi down???
I see what you are saying HCW but I just have a different way of looking at it. I can speak form personal experience of how I felt. Freedom to choose what I wanted to do. Yes I had it always knew I had it. Hoodwinked into false doctrin and thinking that was the way I was supposed to believe, I did that too. I ingrained twi teachings into my mind and I just knew there was nothing else right outside of the twi, just the way a good believer should --> . Yep I saw what I thought were flaws and I knew as time went on God would show me why what I thought were flaws were truths. (I hope that makes sence) I had sunk my whole being into twi. Thank God for freedom of choice and I always had that. For some (like me) it was hard and took time to crawl out of the doctrine that I had allowed to be ingrained in me.
I don't know about the marriage thing personly, but can see what and understand what Belle is saying. A lot of couples that were in twi. One wanted to leave twi but not their spouse and fought their asses off to keep the marriage together. To the person that wanted to leave twi did not want to leave their spouse in a lot of cases. It came down to the one that wanted to stay in either choose twi or their spouse. With the backing that twi would give the innie it was not much of a choice in a lot of cases because they chose to listen to words of men and not follow their hearts. I bet that most that left with a spouse still in and wanted to keep their spouse with them had the hardest fight in their life. Trying to save their marriage.
For some it was easy to leave and are fine and don't think a whole lot about it. For some it was the biggest decision of their lives.
Hcw, the fear of the consequences of leaving were every bit as powerfull to some of us as a loaded gun being held to our heads.
Twi told me that I would become posessed if I left.
Twi told me that I would die if I left the protection of the household.
Twi said that I would lose everything that I loved and cared about if I left.
I believed what twi said....I stayed in spite of being miserable. In many circles that is called brainwashing.....in others it is referred to as manipulation....some just feel scammed because twi took from us what was not theirs.
It happens the same way with an abused spouse who is afraid to leave ...or abused children who are afraid to speak up and tell ......
Many of us sometimes did very foolish things, sometimes did terrible things, endured viscious unjust treatment that under normal circumstances no human will put up with.....and though we didn`t want to, we obeyed and accepted this treatment because we believed it was REQUIRED of us by God almighty...who TOLD us that God required these actions???? twi....that speaks volumes for our state of mind at the time.
You can't leave. Bad things happen to those who leave.
And don't try dying -- because if you die it's because you've sinned.
That's right.
Anyone remember what was said about Don Weirwille?
Let me first say, this is not being said in disrespect to Don or his family. I did hear from a reliable source that when Don was diagnosed with lung cancer, which was terminal, that LCM taught at a WC phone hook-up that Don was sick because of alliances he had kept with unbelievers - his family! - who were no longer "standing with TWI". It was said that he had been told that he needed to sever those relationships and his weakness was that he did not. That's what killed him. (Sick, huh?!)
*CALLING RADAR*
*RADAR - CAN YOU CONFIRM THIS?*
Anyhow...
Things got pretty twisted in the mid-90's, as LCM went on rampages about getting rid of weakness and protecting the household. Everyone was a potential threat. Every weakness was magnified. I remember feeling like I could do nothing right anymore - I knew that wasn't the case but little mistakes - honest mistakes - were magnified 1000x's if you happened to be around an LCM wanna be... WC men who could really loose their tempers (it was called "spiritual anger" if you had a green name tag) were considered to be "tapped in" to the Present Truth...
I remember helping my LC/RC move some furniture in his office. He wasn't a very big man, but was strong and in good health. (I'm built like a brick $hithouse...) So, when he asked me to move a full, two-draw cabinate, I didn't mind and started sliding it along. HE decided I wasn't moving fast enough and yanked on it from another direction. The cabinate knocked against his special - very special - desk and made a small dent. HE LOST IT - I thought he was going hit me - I really did. I apologized (I wish I hadn't now but I was really nervous because he was almost out of control with anger). My first husband would get physical when he was mad at me (or if he'd just had a bad day at work) and I recognized "the look" - I knew he was ....ed. I was ordered out of the room and could hear him slamming around in there... It was sad, now that I think about it... I mean, all that over a little nick in veneered wood? $hit happens...
If anyone here was ever on staff or even sat thru an advanced class at a root local, they can attest that the rantings from leadership - especially LCM - about people who were sick, had died, etc. - could really mess with your mind. Anyone with any ailment had that need because they had weakness in their lives... it would make for a 90-min speech by some windbag with a microphone at lunchtime almost daily!
There's an old thread - I beleive it was from Waydale - where Donna Martindale is quoted (and it's a real audio clip) - as saying the daughter of a long-standing believer DIED because she walked away from the ministry. It's heartless.
Here's some more Way Math for those of you who were lucky enough to miss that crap:
The Word is Perfect = The ministry is the Word = The ministry is Perfect (Therefore: the members should be perfect!)
So, Oldies, HCW and some of you others who think us TWI-2-ers are making this **** up - there's lots of proof in the puddin'. JUST BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T THERE DOESN'T MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
Oldies -- then what is your deduction about those in twi-I, or twi-3?? Were there no *idiotic suggestions* made there? And were we not responsible for our decisions, as well?
Yeah dmiller, that makes sense.
quote:
oldies have you ever heard of mine control??
No Cool, I never heard of mine control. If any miners disagree, feel free to opine.
quote:
I'm ignorant of the intense manipulation and perversion that you speak of. I've never experienced it.
Me too, HCW. However, I'd like to amend my previous dissent and say that there possibly were and are some folks who made decisions to stay in TWI because of fear.
following that line of thought......and consider just what WAS the source of all of that fear?
Wrong teaching labled as biblical truth.....twi used scripture and the name of God to lend legitimacy to their otherwise outrageous demands and thievery, and many times outright cruelty
Remember RFR talking about John Reyn*lds and why he was stepping down as Treasurer of the BOD? I'll have to look for my notes, but she was basically saying that he had become sick because he wasn't strong spiritually and certainly not strong enough in his believing to be healed. Weakness like that can not be tolerated on the almighty BOD.
Donna and Rosie are still running the show, folks. They are STILL promoting this doctrine and people are STILL afraid of leaving.
Brainwashed? Manipulated? Coerced? Blackmailed? Whatever you want to call it, the fear of leaving TWI because of the threat of consequences in the bill of goods they have sold TWIts is very real. It's real easy to stand on the outside and say:
"You have a choice."
"You're an adult; you can always just choose to leave."
"No one is making you stay."
"What's gonna happen if you leave? Are they gonna stalk you? Get real!"
Real easy to judge people when you feel strong and vindicated. Real easy to judge people when you may not have experienced the same treatment, or have since justified it in your lives. Real easy to sit back and armchair quarterback, ain't it?
The fear of leaving was very real for many of us. Judge all you want, but it is preventing you from understanding and empathizing with where we came from and where CURRENT INNIES IN THE SAME SITUATION are having to deal with this VERY REAL dilemma. Because of that you are useless to those who are lurking and trying to find hope and ways to deal with changing their Waybrain fear of leaving and fear of losing their families.
The fear of losing my family (which I did).
The fear of being in a terrible car crash or something and being handicapped for life.
The fear of getting cancer or some other life threatening disease.
The fear of disappointing God and having my whole life fall apart.
The fear of losing everyone and everything near and dear to me.
The fear of being alone and unloveable.
I could go on and on, but I hope you understand that regardless of what you think and how stupid you may think I am and how free I was to leave, in my mind, I was in no way free to leave much less disagree with anything TWI taught.
These same fears are STILL BEING TAUGHT!!
I want to help a few friends of mine who want out but with their entire families in tact. Telling them they are stupid and just imagining the the threats TWI are teaching veiled in scriptures about staying with the ministry that taught you the word and that your life is not your own and that there's gnashing of teeth outside the protected walls of zion (TWI) - telling them they are imagining them and treating them like they are stupid or gullible doesn't help anyone. They already realize it. They just want to know how to help the rest of their family see it.
I have a friend who left TWI because LCM ranted that Naomi Pouling Warbasse (who worked for the Feds during the Clinton admin) died because her father and mother left The Way. She died in that plane crash in Bosnia that also killed Ron Forgothislastname, the black guy who was the director of the US Department Of Commerce. I knew her as a lovely and wonderful and brilliant and extremely promising young American girl. (pardon the polysyndeton there-"many ands") A Condoleeza Rice in the making as far as accomplishments go. I have no doubt that some of you here knew her better than I did. I knew her as Art and Nora's lovely daughter more than as a friend.
This gal of whom I am speaking, who left The Way, was so disgusted that LCM would seize an opportunity to rant and hurt this poor berieved(sp?) family that she spoke her opinion, was blasted for it, and then just said goodbye.
It happened for sure. It was wicked and LCM led this sort of thinking. But I never saw anything like this when I was in The Way. I do remember VPW telling us and teaching that when a person is sick or hurt, that this was not the time to be preaching at them, but rather the time to love them and help them. I was actually reproved once by a limb leader for not being more kind and loving when a person was sick one time, and I know he was right for doing so. Things were different during The Way I. I was gone from The Way by 1989...
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dmiller
Yes, and it also qualifies a mental abuse.
It is by His grace alone, that any of us are alive - whether *in*, or *out*.
Perhaps he has never heard the term "actions speak louder than words"? Or the other way of saying it -- "You're actions are so loud, I can't hear what you are saying"?
He seems to hear twi words pretty well, but does he see the actions of others -- or the actions of twi (for that matter)?
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outandabout
I told my best friend who was still in that I was happier now that I was out.
She said, "No you're not!"
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oldiesman
First, no one can "make" you think something you don't choose to think for yourself, unless you are narcotized, perhaps.
Participants in twi-2 are responsible for their own thoughts, and think for themselves, no matter what idiotic suggestions are proposed. LCM is gone, anyway.
Instead of looking at twi-2 folks as helpless victims who can't leave, I see them as Christians who've made a choice where they want to be.
Might not be the choice I'd make, but it's a choice, nevertheless.
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GeorgeStGeorge
But someone can delude you into believing something that you might not otherwise believe, by deceit and intimidation.
George
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dmiller
The choice was made (obviously) to be where they are, but coercion
*forcing* them to stay makes them *helpless*.
Narcotics aren't needed, when mind control can be used.
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Cindy!
Unless a person is ready and wants to see reality, they just won't.
So even if, after getting free of twiTS you are hugely happy, have a great family life, a great career, and still love God...those who are blinded by false doctrines will STILL say that you are not happy. Or that of course you THINK you are doing better...it's just the "adversary" isn't scared of you anymore, so he's "letting" you prosper to lure others away from Gods true household.
If a person wants to be blinded, they will blinded.
BUT...you never know what God is working in their hearts to get them to freedom!
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Belle
OM, again, you are showing your inability to see and understand the intense manipulation and perversion that goes on in TWI even to this day!
There are many people who are still "in" because, like I did for five years, they are fighting for their family because they know what TWI does to families when someone wants to leave. This is something you know nothing about nor can you comprehend it because of your cold TWI-1 loving heart.
LCM may be gone, but his doctrines, teachings and threats are still in full force! I know. I can't tell you how I know, but I know they are still teaching these things.
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Steve!
Unless God is telling you what to say, anything you say would be heard like on the Charlie Brown cartoons - "wa waa wa wa waaawa wa waa". Meaningless noise. Just like every single one of OM's posts.
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dmiller
My sincere apologies to Ernest Tubb !!!!!
THE ORIGINAL "E.T."
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dmiller
Oldies -- then what is your deduction about those in twi-I, or twi-3?? Were there no *idiotic suggestions* made there? And were we not responsible for our decisions, as well?
-->
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
oldies have you ever heard of mine control?? they had me hook line and sinker, and now consider myself a very intellegent person, and did befor for that matter
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johniam
If they're guilty of mind control then so is any good salesman.
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Nottawayfer
My sister and I were talking about me and my last year or so in twitville. She asked me what I thought about things that were taught. I told her I remembered thinking a lot of things were BS, but I wouldn't dare step away from the household nor speak evil out loud about my thoughts because I was convinced my thoughts were wrong. Sheesh....that was a BIG joke! I think now it was the holy spirit working in my heart to prepare me for my exit out of that place! It took some time for me to get to the point of mutiny against twi, but it's been AWESOME since then!
I could have married a suitable man according to twit standards, and I could have been miserable for many years and feeling like I wasn't free to be me. My life now (and my hubby) is the best it's ever been!
:D-->
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justloafing
I am sure many that were in 1,2,3 can tell you that times changed but the song still remains the same.
If you leave your a Grease Spot. Everyone taught that. Hell yeah it was mind control. It put you in the fish bowl looking out. Even after 18 years those teachings ring loud and clear between my ears. The sharpness and the fear they gave me don't have nearly the bite they once did but none the less they are still there.
I also know, once out I could speak my mind with out worrying about stepping on toes. I have been able to take so much more of what I know to be true out of the bible and apply it to my life and to be able to see others and their needs.
A spiritual world? I do think so. A Spiritual world as what twi taught? No way. The spiritual world they teach is their fantasy land to keep people in.
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HCW
Belle;
I'm ignorant of the intense manipulation and perversion that you speak of. I've never experienced it. That is not said to rebut anything you say. I just don't know what TWI could do to someone who just didn't come to twig anymore, and changed their phone number.
I really don't see Oldie's comments as cold, I see them more 'real' than anything else. What can they actually DO to someone? Do they beat people? I know LCM used to yell abusive things & stuff like that.
Please take into account that I'm ignorant of what they do, OK? However, you speak of TWI having hold on people in terms that are used normally of wives who are trapped in abusive marriages/relationships.
Do they actually stalk you? Threaten actual harm, physical or otherwise? Again, I'm not trying to ridicule, just understand. From an outside perspective, when I hear intense in terms of manipulation and perversion I also hear 'criminal.'
For example: I know a guy who has an X-wife who is the poster child for the "X from HELL" club (female division). When they were divorcing there was enough intense manipulation and perversion to make pretty much anyone's (no matter what you've seen or experienced) jaw drop through the floor. During that, after they split and she'd call with the height of intensity, 'f-bombs" and heinous insults, all the threats, etc. you could imagine dropping all over the place.... the guy hung up the phone.
He'd joke around afterwards about how today's electronic phones lack the impact hanging up that the old cradle button models had. (You used to be able to slam the phone just right and put a 'pop!' in the other party's ear.) Now a little "bleep" or "boop!" is all you can get. Cell phones just go silent and they may not even know you actually hung up. You used to be able to give them a non-verbal "shutUP."
I'm rambling... At any rate. When the X-fromHell actually DID something. Like she hit him with a car, (intense and perverse) he dialed 911. She's now looking at a year in jail and/or 2yrs supervised probation, court ordered counseling, fines, court costs, retribution for thousands of dollars in medical bills & physical therapy, AND supervised visitation of the children they share. The children actually WITNESSED their mother intentionally hitting their father with a 2000lb car.
That, from an outside POV is intense manipulation and perversion that goes on. And. In the category of intense, and perversion, based on what's available. The story above is not-all that-intense, or perverse.
You speak of doctrines, teachings, and threats that are still in force. Can you enlighten those of us who may not have experienced what you speak of? Its difficult for folks to empathsize when we have little idea of what you're talking about.
Please, notice from the story above that the guy enlisted outside help from the proper authorities. I would think such help could actually bring twi down???
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justloafing
I see what you are saying HCW but I just have a different way of looking at it. I can speak form personal experience of how I felt. Freedom to choose what I wanted to do. Yes I had it always knew I had it. Hoodwinked into false doctrin and thinking that was the way I was supposed to believe, I did that too. I ingrained twi teachings into my mind and I just knew there was nothing else right outside of the twi, just the way a good believer should
--> . Yep I saw what I thought were flaws and I knew as time went on God would show me why what I thought were flaws were truths. (I hope that makes sence) I had sunk my whole being into twi. Thank God for freedom of choice and I always had that. For some (like me) it was hard and took time to crawl out of the doctrine that I had allowed to be ingrained in me.
I don't know about the marriage thing personly, but can see what and understand what Belle is saying. A lot of couples that were in twi. One wanted to leave twi but not their spouse and fought their asses off to keep the marriage together. To the person that wanted to leave twi did not want to leave their spouse in a lot of cases. It came down to the one that wanted to stay in either choose twi or their spouse. With the backing that twi would give the innie it was not much of a choice in a lot of cases because they chose to listen to words of men and not follow their hearts. I bet that most that left with a spouse still in and wanted to keep their spouse with them had the hardest fight in their life. Trying to save their marriage.
For some it was easy to leave and are fine and don't think a whole lot about it. For some it was the biggest decision of their lives.
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rascal
Hcw, the fear of the consequences of leaving were every bit as powerfull to some of us as a loaded gun being held to our heads.
Twi told me that I would become posessed if I left.
Twi told me that I would die if I left the protection of the household.
Twi said that I would lose everything that I loved and cared about if I left.
I believed what twi said....I stayed in spite of being miserable. In many circles that is called brainwashing.....in others it is referred to as manipulation....some just feel scammed because twi took from us what was not theirs.
It happens the same way with an abused spouse who is afraid to leave ...or abused children who are afraid to speak up and tell ......
Many of us sometimes did very foolish things, sometimes did terrible things, endured viscious unjust treatment that under normal circumstances no human will put up with.....and though we didn`t want to, we obeyed and accepted this treatment because we believed it was REQUIRED of us by God almighty...who TOLD us that God required these actions???? twi....that speaks volumes for our state of mind at the time.
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ChasUFarley
You can't leave. Bad things happen to those who leave.
And don't try dying -- because if you die it's because you've sinned.
That's right.
Anyone remember what was said about Don Weirwille?
Let me first say, this is not being said in disrespect to Don or his family. I did hear from a reliable source that when Don was diagnosed with lung cancer, which was terminal, that LCM taught at a WC phone hook-up that Don was sick because of alliances he had kept with unbelievers - his family! - who were no longer "standing with TWI". It was said that he had been told that he needed to sever those relationships and his weakness was that he did not. That's what killed him. (Sick, huh?!)
*CALLING RADAR*
*RADAR - CAN YOU CONFIRM THIS?*
Anyhow...
Things got pretty twisted in the mid-90's, as LCM went on rampages about getting rid of weakness and protecting the household. Everyone was a potential threat. Every weakness was magnified. I remember feeling like I could do nothing right anymore - I knew that wasn't the case but little mistakes - honest mistakes - were magnified 1000x's if you happened to be around an LCM wanna be... WC men who could really loose their tempers (it was called "spiritual anger" if you had a green name tag) were considered to be "tapped in" to the Present Truth...
I remember helping my LC/RC move some furniture in his office. He wasn't a very big man, but was strong and in good health. (I'm built like a brick $hithouse...) So, when he asked me to move a full, two-draw cabinate, I didn't mind and started sliding it along. HE decided I wasn't moving fast enough and yanked on it from another direction. The cabinate knocked against his special - very special - desk and made a small dent. HE LOST IT - I thought he was going hit me - I really did. I apologized (I wish I hadn't now but I was really nervous because he was almost out of control with anger). My first husband would get physical when he was mad at me (or if he'd just had a bad day at work) and I recognized "the look" - I knew he was ....ed. I was ordered out of the room and could hear him slamming around in there... It was sad, now that I think about it... I mean, all that over a little nick in veneered wood? $hit happens...
If anyone here was ever on staff or even sat thru an advanced class at a root local, they can attest that the rantings from leadership - especially LCM - about people who were sick, had died, etc. - could really mess with your mind. Anyone with any ailment had that need because they had weakness in their lives... it would make for a 90-min speech by some windbag with a microphone at lunchtime almost daily!
There's an old thread - I beleive it was from Waydale - where Donna Martindale is quoted (and it's a real audio clip) - as saying the daughter of a long-standing believer DIED because she walked away from the ministry. It's heartless.
Here's some more Way Math for those of you who were lucky enough to miss that crap:
The Word is Perfect = The ministry is the Word = The ministry is Perfect (Therefore: the members should be perfect!)
So, Oldies, HCW and some of you others who think us TWI-2-ers are making this **** up - there's lots of proof in the puddin'. JUST BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T THERE DOESN'T MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
Anyone feeling enlightened now?
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oldiesman
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rascal
following that line of thought......and consider just what WAS the source of all of that fear?
Wrong teaching labled as biblical truth.....twi used scripture and the name of God to lend legitimacy to their otherwise outrageous demands and thievery, and many times outright cruelty
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Belle
Remember RFR talking about John Reyn*lds and why he was stepping down as Treasurer of the BOD? I'll have to look for my notes, but she was basically saying that he had become sick because he wasn't strong spiritually and certainly not strong enough in his believing to be healed. Weakness like that can not be tolerated on the almighty BOD.
Donna and Rosie are still running the show, folks. They are STILL promoting this doctrine and people are STILL afraid of leaving.
Brainwashed? Manipulated? Coerced? Blackmailed? Whatever you want to call it, the fear of leaving TWI because of the threat of consequences in the bill of goods they have sold TWIts is very real. It's real easy to stand on the outside and say:
"You have a choice."
"You're an adult; you can always just choose to leave."
"No one is making you stay."
"What's gonna happen if you leave? Are they gonna stalk you? Get real!"
Real easy to judge people when you feel strong and vindicated. Real easy to judge people when you may not have experienced the same treatment, or have since justified it in your lives. Real easy to sit back and armchair quarterback, ain't it?
The fear of leaving was very real for many of us. Judge all you want, but it is preventing you from understanding and empathizing with where we came from and where CURRENT INNIES IN THE SAME SITUATION are having to deal with this VERY REAL dilemma. Because of that you are useless to those who are lurking and trying to find hope and ways to deal with changing their Waybrain fear of leaving and fear of losing their families.
The fear of losing my family (which I did).
The fear of being in a terrible car crash or something and being handicapped for life.
The fear of getting cancer or some other life threatening disease.
The fear of disappointing God and having my whole life fall apart.
The fear of losing everyone and everything near and dear to me.
The fear of being alone and unloveable.
I could go on and on, but I hope you understand that regardless of what you think and how stupid you may think I am and how free I was to leave, in my mind, I was in no way free to leave much less disagree with anything TWI taught.
These same fears are STILL BEING TAUGHT!!
I want to help a few friends of mine who want out but with their entire families in tact. Telling them they are stupid and just imagining the the threats TWI are teaching veiled in scriptures about staying with the ministry that taught you the word and that your life is not your own and that there's gnashing of teeth outside the protected walls of zion (TWI) - telling them they are imagining them and treating them like they are stupid or gullible doesn't help anyone. They already realize it. They just want to know how to help the rest of their family see it.
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WordWolf
I'm willing to give HCW the benefit of the doubt and judge his question a
fair one.
If he PERSONALLY did not remember anything of a vicious or abusive nature,
either
A) he wasn't present when it happened
B) he misinterpreted what he saw
C) it didn't happen
He asked for more information. He wanted to know what he didn't see.
He's not been here for years, and may not have seen the threads where it's
been outlined.
So, I say, let's give him sufficient information to make an informed
opinion.
=====
Now, those RealAudio clips ARE highly informative.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/main/real.html
The clip ChasUFarley mentioned is the 928K clip.
A lot of twi's OWN documents can be found here:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/main/way-generated.htm
Notes on some of their meetings can be found here:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/main/corpsnotes.html
A number of topical articles on twi's policies, practices and statements
can be found here:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/main/editorial.html
Here's a newspaper article that includes some quotes where you can see
the end results of twi's despicable teachings:
http://www.ardemgaz.com/prev/way/11.html
====
This should provide some answers to some persistent questions.
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J0nny Ling0
I have a friend who left TWI because LCM ranted that Naomi Pouling Warbasse (who worked for the Feds during the Clinton admin) died because her father and mother left The Way. She died in that plane crash in Bosnia that also killed Ron Forgothislastname, the black guy who was the director of the US Department Of Commerce. I knew her as a lovely and wonderful and brilliant and extremely promising young American girl. (pardon the polysyndeton there-"many ands") A Condoleeza Rice in the making as far as accomplishments go. I have no doubt that some of you here knew her better than I did. I knew her as Art and Nora's lovely daughter more than as a friend.
This gal of whom I am speaking, who left The Way, was so disgusted that LCM would seize an opportunity to rant and hurt this poor berieved(sp?) family that she spoke her opinion, was blasted for it, and then just said goodbye.
It happened for sure. It was wicked and LCM led this sort of thinking. But I never saw anything like this when I was in The Way. I do remember VPW telling us and teaching that when a person is sick or hurt, that this was not the time to be preaching at them, but rather the time to love them and help them. I was actually reproved once by a limb leader for not being more kind and loving when a person was sick one time, and I know he was right for doing so. Things were different during The Way I. I was gone from The Way by 1989...
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rascal
In you areas no doubt Johnny L, but please consider that the hurtfull legalism was in full swing in many as early as 79 in many areas.
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