Genuine fellowships are established by groups of people who seek to follow God in their hearts- Not with their organizations, in fact organization seem to do more to destroy genuine fellowship than build it in my opinion.
And you are absolutely right in saying God is too big and that we are too small. We so try to box Him up!
I took Loy up on his challenge that there is nothing else is out there, that the civic organizations were useless, run by spurts, etc..
I chose the local radio club to check out.
Really, the first meeting, I was looking for spirits under every rock, in every corner.. they weren't there. And I actually lived to tell about it. And I found a group of good hearted, well meaning folks who's lives and efforts really do make a difference sometimes.
Plus it was actually fun.
I think I would have been a basket case if I had to exit der vey out into the "cold cruel world" without having established a few friendships.
The disturbing thing about all this though, was I saw more love and concern, and the goodness of God, in a civic organization, than I saw from der vey for the last five years of my involvement.
You may know this already, but - be careful not to give out too much personal information, such as where you live, how many children and what ages, etc, unless you don't mind contact from the WayGB.
There are posters here that can tell you horror stories of the WayGB, and recent stories at that.
When you leave you want to do it on YOUR terms, not theirs.
If they can figure out who you are, your departure may be hastened more than you wanted.
Oh yes mr. hammeroni, you would of caught "hell" and more, that I know. I too was too scared and scoffed at anyone who gave time, let alone money, to any "second rate" causes. Even PTA seemed off limits!! That was another thing that started the questioning and looking for more, was I "by accident" went to a meeting run by another church and I was VERY impressed. Looked sincere and they were "helping" others. My daddy always questioned me since my earliest involvement,"what does the Way do for poor people?" I used to scream back , "we teach people How to NOT be poor!!" I don't remember ever teaching anyone that belief, and it's funny, years later we did a teaching on investing and prosperity and got our butts chewed! The hypocrisy, so sad.
Terrific insight, everyone and really appreciated. This is a very long process I can tell. Oddly, we have shared some of the horrors of theVey with some close friends, they are appauled by it, by still see no reason to leave because " there is nothing else out there". They think that not only because Craiger use to say that, but , who else besides JW's are gonna teach JCNG etc..? Corruption with "men" is one thing, but most who have stuck by this long, only stay because they believe in the doctrine and "research". LoL
That is why I think we definatley should not "sway" people. Just present some facts and leave it at that. I heard rumors years ago, but that didn't affect my "stand" until I was searching for more and answers.I was snooring through teachings, and it is still very dull. When ever my hubby and I teach, I want to share exciting stuff, but, can't. Not without backlash anyway... Some people just don't care or are not ready to leave. And if they follow what I say just for "my sake", and haven't made it their own, well, what makes me any better than a cult?
Yep, very sad.. oh welcome Bliss. Just call me Ham..
But slowly making friendships in the community really helped me out when the big departure day came.
I saw it coming, and I didn't think it was the end of the world or anything.
Loy tried to set it up so those who left had NOWHERE TO GO. Orphans, out in the cold cruel world. I would suggest to find a few places to go before the big day arrives. Discretely, of course..
Bliss, you've gotten lots of great advice and wisdom on here. If you haven't checked out the threads that talk about the doctrinal errors and problems with PFAL and the Blue Book, I highly recommend them. You might be surprised at how wrong some of the things we were taught are.
Also, like your dad asked...what DOES TWI do for people? For anyone? They don't even help their own, much less others outside their group? That's NOT what the Bible says. TWI is no better than the men who passed the man beaten on the side of the road. Good Samaritans they aren't. It's sad because they have the resources to be good Samaritans.
Also, can't remember if I recommended "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse", but just in case....I highly recommend it. I also think once you read it, you'll see how TWI is NOT getting any better at taking care of their people or living the Word they claim to teach. :)-->
I have, Belle, that is what got to me the most. I was one of them that could "excuse" men of their sins (to a point) because they will All disappoint you," so why leave one sinner for another ?" kind of attitude....
So, it was when I started to question the doctine we had been taught is when I really didn't want to stay....for me. It was if my whole way of thinking and being was and is challenged and a little confused.....it is going to take time..
I totally understand that, Bliss! I felt like the rug had been ripped out from under my feet. It was like someone died when I finally realized/faced facts that TWI was founded on lies, evil and abusive intent. I felt kicked in the gut when I found out how much was covered up and how much we were lied to, especially by a couple I had highly respected (the Moneyhands). I think I cried for a month straight.
I hung in there for five years. I know it takes time. :)--> I just hope it doesn't take as long for you as it did for me. I'm glad you and Hubby have open lines of communication. That's a very important and wonderful thing!
I felt like the rug had been ripped out from under my feet. It was like someone died when I finally realized/faced facts that TWI was founded on lies, evil and abusive intent. I felt kicked in the gut when I found out how much was covered up and how much we were lied to, especially by a couple I had highly respected (the Moneyhands). I think I cried for a month straight.
Ditto!!!
I had spent years being unhappy, and thinking ALWAYS that it was my fault for having no joy, no believing... when the truth finally hit me, I felt absolutely dazed and winded.
I wasnt envolved between 83-90' in 90 I went back very niave of the OG YEARS..blinded and the rug pulled.....Its Horrid.., i took pfal in 75 and stayed till 83..oh my! this where the other 99,000 went!
Even assuming, for arguments sake, that TWI is "right on", how can they say that there is nothing else out there when there are splinters/offshoots teaching virtually the same thing?
You're right Bliss, it's gonna take time. I've been out for 18 years now...and all I can tell you is that life is MUCH better without twi...has been for a long long time.
My spirituality is more personal and real without twi...life makes more sense without twi...my relationships with other people are more real...It's great to interact with people that are not afraid to speak their minds, never having to worry about following the latest doctrinal script from the leaders...each person allowed to have an opinion of their own! It's refreshing and it's honest.
Seems to me that being involved with twi is like a man with a pimple on his foot...after awhile, you just get tired of it. ;)-->
Hi Bliss I felt compelled to say hello and offer this, plan each step of the way out it may be a comfort later to know you did that. Napkinlady and I are great and we left in late 2001. Enjoy each other and talk much in my opinion its the only reason we made it out. And alot of comforting words from gspotters Thanks all!! My defintion of the way is stolen from charlie brown "when all is said and done, more was said than done!!! walk on
I've been out for (gosh) about 25 years now... one thing you'll probably find yourself doing is (when you visit churches) always comparing what they're teaching/saying to what you learned in TWI. Try not to let yourself fall into that trap... when you go to try a new church/fellowship LOOK FOR THE LOVE... let that be your guide... what they "say" may not line up exactly with what you've come to believe from TWI teachings... just look for the love, let that guide you...
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jardinero
Ckeer:
Excellent insight, as usual.
And you are absolutely right in saying God is too big and that we are too small. We so try to box Him up!
J.
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Ham
About two years before my exit..
I took Loy up on his challenge that there is nothing else is out there, that the civic organizations were useless, run by spurts, etc..
I chose the local radio club to check out.
Really, the first meeting, I was looking for spirits under every rock, in every corner.. they weren't there. And I actually lived to tell about it. And I found a group of good hearted, well meaning folks who's lives and efforts really do make a difference sometimes.
Plus it was actually fun.
I think I would have been a basket case if I had to exit der vey out into the "cold cruel world" without having established a few friendships.
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Ham
The disturbing thing about all this though, was I saw more love and concern, and the goodness of God, in a civic organization, than I saw from der vey for the last five years of my involvement.
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Steve!
Bliss -
You may know this already, but - be careful not to give out too much personal information, such as where you live, how many children and what ages, etc, unless you don't mind contact from the WayGB.
There are posters here that can tell you horror stories of the WayGB, and recent stories at that.
When you leave you want to do it on YOUR terms, not theirs.
If they can figure out who you are, your departure may be hastened more than you wanted.
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outandabout
I see more love and concern EVERYWHERE compared to what I saw in TWI.
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Ham
True, true.. but civic organizations is one of the things "good" ole loy boy singled out for rants.
Plus all of the leadership "trained" under his thoughtful guidance..
First meeting I went to, they weren't offering me a free lunch (bribe) or anything. "Come here little wayfer, try some of this nice sweet candy.."
My God, that is almost what I EXPECTED. Glad I went, and found some real human beings..
Reality and loy seemed to be rather at odds one with another.
Funny thing- I didn't tell anybody I was going to this thing. Probably would have caught hell or something..
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bliss
Oh yes mr. hammeroni, you would of caught "hell" and more, that I know. I too was too scared and scoffed at anyone who gave time, let alone money, to any "second rate" causes. Even PTA seemed off limits!! That was another thing that started the questioning and looking for more, was I "by accident" went to a meeting run by another church and I was VERY impressed. Looked sincere and they were "helping" others. My daddy always questioned me since my earliest involvement,"what does the Way do for poor people?" I used to scream back , "we teach people How to NOT be poor!!" I don't remember ever teaching anyone that belief, and it's funny, years later we did a teaching on investing and prosperity and got our butts chewed! The hypocrisy, so sad.
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bliss
Terrific insight, everyone and really appreciated. This is a very long process I can tell. Oddly, we have shared some of the horrors of theVey with some close friends, they are appauled by it, by still see no reason to leave because " there is nothing else out there". They think that not only because Craiger use to say that, but , who else besides JW's are gonna teach JCNG etc..? Corruption with "men" is one thing, but most who have stuck by this long, only stay because they believe in the doctrine and "research". LoL
That is why I think we definatley should not "sway" people. Just present some facts and leave it at that. I heard rumors years ago, but that didn't affect my "stand" until I was searching for more and answers.I was snooring through teachings, and it is still very dull. When ever my hubby and I teach, I want to share exciting stuff, but, can't. Not without backlash anyway... Some people just don't care or are not ready to leave. And if they follow what I say just for "my sake", and haven't made it their own, well, what makes me any better than a cult?
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Ham
Yep, very sad.. oh welcome Bliss. Just call me Ham..
But slowly making friendships in the community really helped me out when the big departure day came.
I saw it coming, and I didn't think it was the end of the world or anything.
Loy tried to set it up so those who left had NOWHERE TO GO. Orphans, out in the cold cruel world. I would suggest to find a few places to go before the big day arrives. Discretely, of course..
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bliss
Thanks Ham, good idea.
:)-->
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Belle
Bliss, you've gotten lots of great advice and wisdom on here. If you haven't checked out the threads that talk about the doctrinal errors and problems with PFAL and the Blue Book, I highly recommend them. You might be surprised at how wrong some of the things we were taught are.
Also, like your dad asked...what DOES TWI do for people? For anyone? They don't even help their own, much less others outside their group? That's NOT what the Bible says. TWI is no better than the men who passed the man beaten on the side of the road. Good Samaritans they aren't. It's sad because they have the resources to be good Samaritans.
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Belle
Also, can't remember if I recommended "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse", but just in case....I highly recommend it. I also think once you read it, you'll see how TWI is NOT getting any better at taking care of their people or living the Word they claim to teach.
:)-->
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bliss
I have, Belle, that is what got to me the most. I was one of them that could "excuse" men of their sins (to a point) because they will All disappoint you," so why leave one sinner for another ?" kind of attitude....
So, it was when I started to question the doctine we had been taught is when I really didn't want to stay....for me. It was if my whole way of thinking and being was and is challenged and a little confused.....it is going to take time..
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dmiller
THE BLUE BOOK
A thoughtful, inciteful dissertation by Raf as to what is (and is not) good about the blue book.
Enjoy.
David
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Belle
I totally understand that, Bliss! I felt like the rug had been ripped out from under my feet. It was like someone died when I finally realized/faced facts that TWI was founded on lies, evil and abusive intent. I felt kicked in the gut when I found out how much was covered up and how much we were lied to, especially by a couple I had highly respected (the Moneyhands). I think I cried for a month straight.
I hung in there for five years. I know it takes time.
:)--> I just hope it doesn't take as long for you as it did for me. I'm glad you and Hubby have open lines of communication. That's a very important and wonderful thing!
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TheHighWay
Ditto!!!
I had spent years being unhappy, and thinking ALWAYS that it was my fault for having no joy, no believing... when the truth finally hit me, I felt absolutely dazed and winded.
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likeaneagle
ditti ditto!
I wasnt envolved between 83-90' in 90 I went back very niave of the OG YEARS..blinded and the rug pulled.....Its Horrid.., i took pfal in 75 and stayed till 83..oh my! this where the other 99,000 went!
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Oakspear
Even assuming, for arguments sake, that TWI is "right on", how can they say that there is nothing else out there when there are splinters/offshoots teaching virtually the same thing?
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herbiejuan
Good point Oak and if it was so dammed good to begin with why do they have to keep changing how they do things?
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likeaneagle
Folks-
I failed to mention , he also said, they claim not to be the only ministry to have the truth........so Im still waiting on DS to PM me.
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GrouchoMarxJr
You're right Bliss, it's gonna take time. I've been out for 18 years now...and all I can tell you is that life is MUCH better without twi...has been for a long long time.
My spirituality is more personal and real without twi...life makes more sense without twi...my relationships with other people are more real...It's great to interact with people that are not afraid to speak their minds, never having to worry about following the latest doctrinal script from the leaders...each person allowed to have an opinion of their own! It's refreshing and it's honest.
Seems to me that being involved with twi is like a man with a pimple on his foot...after awhile, you just get tired of it.
;)-->
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INDEBTSAYSWHO
Hi Bliss I felt compelled to say hello and offer this, plan each step of the way out it may be a comfort later to know you did that. Napkinlady and I are great and we left in late 2001. Enjoy each other and talk much in my opinion its the only reason we made it out. And alot of comforting words from gspotters
Thanks all!! My defintion of the way is stolen from charlie brown "when all is said and done, more was said than done!!! walk on
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Tom Strange
Hi and welcome Bliss... have a snowcone...
I've been out for (gosh) about 25 years now... one thing you'll probably find yourself doing is (when you visit churches) always comparing what they're teaching/saying to what you learned in TWI. Try not to let yourself fall into that trap... when you go to try a new church/fellowship LOOK FOR THE LOVE... let that be your guide... what they "say" may not line up exactly with what you've come to believe from TWI teachings... just look for the love, let that guide you...
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Zshot
This may sound overly simplistic...
Think on what Love is.
Does Love have fear and intemidation as it's companions?
Is love or friendship conditional upon being in a group or organisation?
Is love boring or exciting?
Does love make room for differences of opinions?
Is love tolerant?
Did the actions of Jesus Christ demonstrate love? (IMO, yes)
Does the actions of twi demonstrate love? (IMO, no)
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