Ahhh silly me....I thought that they were just trying to be a blessing to people with their wealth of wisdom....sigh.
It sounds like all of the *free* mailings sent have simply been with a goal geered towards helping me decide whether or not I wanted to stand with and support their ministry... groan...
Can`t ANYTHING be done simply on behalf of sharing scripture without it being a means to an end...ie upping their membership?
Well, it does cost some money to produce any publication, and mail it out...that tact would have perhaps been much better to present for establishing subscription rates, rather than all that droning "support us or go away", hour-of decision crap.
They could have written something along these lines:
"Dear Subscriber,
Due to rising costs involved in maintaining our publication, we regret to inform you that we must charge a minimum subscription fee, which will make possible the continuence of having our fine publication delivered right to your door. We hope you understand.
But if you sign up today, you will receive ABSOLUTELY FREE this beautiful, deluxe "STIFFY" TRAVEL MUG, as well as the Deluxe STIFFY refrigerator MAGNET-CALENDAR!
(while supplies last).
We look forward to serving you. We love you, and would sit on your lap and pour our hearts out to you if we were there. We really would.
Way back in 1998 I had a long telephone conversation with John Lynn. Next thing I know, he's sent me many books from CES and I'm on the mailing list...getting everything from newsletter to begging letters.
I wrote CES a letter and told them to STOP sending me their stuff...I was NOT interested, would NEVER be interested, and would NOT send any money.
It was December 2005 before I stopped receiving the stuff...and only then because I moved and DIDN'T put in a forwarding address...
You can't tell those guys ANYTHING!! I tried to help them with the Sower a few years ago (changing format, scaling the articles down, etc.) and every suggestion I made fell on deaf ears. Nothing happens there anymore without it being spiritual insight from M**k G*****r.
The next thing they will do is ask the fellowships for a percentage of whatever "abundant sharing" "free-will giving", whatever they call it now, that is taken in individual fellowships. Mark my words. They think they have a bigger, better, WAY!
I hold in front of me an insert from the CES gang and it reads as follows.
"To continue receiving THE SOWER, please return this form by 4/21/06"
Name Addy--------
-- Yes I want to continue receiving THE SOWER, enclosed is my donation of $------
-- Yes I want to continue receiving THE SOWER, and I want to become a Partner. Please sign me up for $---/month ($25 minimum pledge) You will receive the Tape/CD of the month & a l5% discount on most of our bookstore items
--Yes I want to continue receiving THE SOWER, but I am unable to donate at this time. Please sign me up to receive the online version. My email addy is ------
--Yes I want to continue receiving THE SOWER, but I am unable to donate at this time. Please consider continuing to send it to me free of charge.
Seems to me they are offering 4 options as a little check box is before each "YES" where I had --
So, if you want it FREE, they'll sure consider you and most likely accomodate your situation...so Oldies..you're not entirely correct my man! BTW..I do not support CES but find some pretty interesting things presented from their ministry. The partnership idea is sure "novel" and I'm sure objectionable to alot of people...but honestly..how does it differ that much from a weekly "tithe"??? Guess they'd like to know just how much they can depend on their followers, thus the idea might be a sound one at that!! Hmmmmmmmmmm
the minimum you can give is 25 a month for the partnership program .
Mark is traveling around with his son right now for awhile visting different "believers" homes.
sure it is a money making business.. why not?
they do a fine job on that truth and tradition site.
I do think they want people to make commintments to their group and want to predict the money flow.
Mark is in college , has four kids some in college, John S. has four kids to put through, they travel alot to other countries, they have a sizable staff.
alot of family memebers they have camp vision a large area of land .
this is their career.
I think they work for it. they do what they want when they want how they want where ever they want.
I wonder how many pastors of the large churches get to travel with their family for years at a time, go to school on the abs.they live very very well many vacations alot of down time. . but hey who is to say it is wrong?
they want it big and better.. to grow , it makes more money . but I truly believe they believe in what they are doing.
... Seems to me they are offering 4 options as a little check box is before each "YES" where I had --
So, if you want it FREE, they'll sure consider you and most likely accomodate your situation...so Oldies..you're not entirely correct my man! ...
Second James,
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
I called STFI offices to help clear up this confusion, and had a nice chat with Jeff, who explained what's happening.
Apparently the letter I received in the mail, did not contain a "gold flyer" that listed the choice about STFI "considering" free distribution.
Whether that was an error on their part or an intentional omission, I do not know.
But bottom line, it costs them $5,000 a month to distribute the magazine, and they feel the financial need to quit sending it to folks who have been receiving it for some time for free but who do not make donations. Folks like me.
Apparently they want folks like me to either spit or get off the pot, that if we like the magazine, then distribute some loot, to help pay for it.
If not, the magazine is still available via email, for free.
Ya see since March 2002 I have been receiving this magazine for free and they cant afford to keep on subsidizing tightwads like me.
But let's say someone who never heard of STFI wants to receive the magazine for free, .... they WILL send it for free for 6-9 months (as per Jeff's information to me), and then at that time, they will ask for a donation.
********************
I still feel the same way... I think they could print it less fancy, and perhaps distribute it for free without having to ask for contributions.
I don't recieve the sower and never have but hey, 5K a month is 60K a year. thats alot of $25 a month people just to send out the zine let alone pay for thier ministry.
I believe that if they feel in thier hearts that this is the ministry God has called them to who am I to judge really how they go about it. I understand the Morman church actually bills you for your ABS so these guys are asking for support. If someone feels led then give it to them.
I am not in a position to judge them to see if they are trying to become the next TWI. I do think that this is not the place to debate their sincerity.
If they win one person to God, save one life then its worth what they have done. If that person was you I am sure you would agree.
Lesseee, there's been The Sower and the Contender. Without much thinking I assumed the Sower was to sow some seeds and generate interest in newbies and the Contender was for the more serious CES bibliophile who felt contention was their cup of tea.
I got the Sower for awhile, without asking for it which was kind of nice as it meant that I had a secret buddy out there somewhere who put me on the list, or maybe it was for the benefit of my lovely wife who is always remembered fondly as she has historically had the good grace to pass up opportunities to needlessly tell people what she really thinks of them. Either way, it came like clockwork for awhile. Then - a year ago? - a letter came that talked about how it wasn't going to be sent to people that never responded back with any interest, which I guess means never wrote back a thank you, or sent money or bought something. I guess.
Which made sense, sort of. Since I'd never asked for it to be sent, I had no interest in it really. Nothing caught my eye in it, which may be a giveaway of some kind that I'm too much of a deadbeat to benefit from it anyway. Don't know for sure.
After a bit it stopped coming and hasn't come since then, that I know of. But we get a lot of mail from businesses that we didn't ask for, so I could be wrong. And in a way, it's kind of nice getting all that unsolicited mail even though I complian often and loudly about it. That mailbox is always full. Mailers, fliers, offers, serious opportunities for me to buy, sell, borrow, from friends who only have my best interests at heart, they say. It's nice. It's definitely better than an empty mailbox. Empty mailboxes seem so - depressing. Hey! I'm here! Doesn't anyone want to send something? In this world we live in, it's almost suspect. No mail. What's your problem, bud?
It costs money to do stuff like this so I think it makes good business sense for anyone in the higly profitable and fast-money-streaming business of Christian-ware and Religious Gee-Gaws to balance the books now and then and see who's really being helped and responding iwth some hard cash, and who's just suckin' the straw for free. Or like me, taking valuable resources by mistake and ulitmately by false pretense as I'm too lazy to tell anyone to correct the mailing list.
I like free stuff. It's cheaper than the stuff that costs money, no question about it. If it's free, and I could use it, I'm there. But personally, getting another e-version of something I didn't want to begin with would be a waste of cyber-resources that could be put to better use sending penis enlargement ads and ways to Make Money Fast! notifications. So frankly I welcome this opportunity to avoid clogging the info-money highway. Not doing something is actually a way of doing some good. For some reason, that appeals to me.
OK, so let me het this straight, in 3 years time "The Sower" went from being a 4-6 page xeroxed staple bound single color free pamphlet, to a 4 color glossy magazine? Now they want all the people who signed up for the free version to start paying?
Sounds Egotistical to me. Maybe someone should have asked God what the best thing to do was.
When I signed up for information with them in 2002 they sent me a packet (all the back issues of the sower plus 2 or three booklets and some other things) of stuff, then kept sending me "The Sower" you know what that was a bit over the top, if they would have sent tapes (thank God they didn't) it would have really freaked me out.
I wonder if the old monthly Way Magazine ever started out free? Seems to me if it makes good fertilizer I'd buy it, but these four color glossy jobs just kill my house plants.
Seth You need to learn to be a little more patient when trying to compost 4 color way mags. If you run them through a paper shredder first, soak them in water. add a little dog or cat poop and leave them in a mulch pile to rot for about 6 weeks they are just about right then
I don't recieve the sower and never have but hey, 5K a month is 60K a year. thats alot of $25 a month people just to send out the zine let alone pay for their ministry.
I guess I'll have to go to the e-mail version. I got involved with them in '89 when I started exchanging letters with John L. right before our whole group left TWI. I sent them some money in the 90's and ordered some tapes sets. The last couple of years I'd read the Contender then the Sower when they came but it was more like keeping up with old friends. Best of luck to them.
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rascal
Ahhh silly me....I thought that they were just trying to be a blessing to people with their wealth of wisdom....sigh.
It sounds like all of the *free* mailings sent have simply been with a goal geered towards helping me decide whether or not I wanted to stand with and support their ministry... groan...
Can`t ANYTHING be done simply on behalf of sharing scripture without it being a means to an end...ie upping their membership?
How dissapointing :(
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TheInvisibleDan
Well, it does cost some money to produce any publication, and mail it out...that tact would have perhaps been much better to present for establishing subscription rates, rather than all that droning "support us or go away", hour-of decision crap.
They could have written something along these lines:
"Dear Subscriber,
Due to rising costs involved in maintaining our publication, we regret to inform you that we must charge a minimum subscription fee, which will make possible the continuence of having our fine publication delivered right to your door. We hope you understand.
But if you sign up today, you will receive ABSOLUTELY FREE this beautiful, deluxe "STIFFY" TRAVEL MUG, as well as the Deluxe STIFFY refrigerator MAGNET-CALENDAR!
(while supplies last).
We look forward to serving you. We love you, and would sit on your lap and pour our hearts out to you if we were there. We really would.
In the name of the One-eyed trouser God,
The STIFFY Staff"
No one would have had a problem with that.
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oldiesman
I would have scaled down the cost of producing the magazine ... it was nice receiving it for free and maybe it didn't have to be so fancy.
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pond
old
you can still get it free online just send them your e-mail .
there is a box to check for them to consider sending "the sower" to you for free maybe try that.
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waterbuffalo
Good. Maybe they'll stop sending it to me, then.
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WordWolf
I thought you were saying their E-MAIL version was now being assigned a fee.
I wasn't even aware there WAS a paper version.
(Except for hitting "print" on the e-mail, say.)
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CoolWaters
Way back in 1998 I had a long telephone conversation with John Lynn. Next thing I know, he's sent me many books from CES and I'm on the mailing list...getting everything from newsletter to begging letters.
I wrote CES a letter and told them to STOP sending me their stuff...I was NOT interested, would NEVER be interested, and would NOT send any money.
It was December 2005 before I stopped receiving the stuff...and only then because I moved and DIDN'T put in a forwarding address...
Now they can't afford to hand out the thing free?
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Tom Strange
me too... I never asked for it... all it does is go into the recycle bin...
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satori001
InvisibleDan,
That was damn funny.
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dmiller
Oldies -- I agree. Now that they have the glossy paper cover, 4 color printing format, it would be hard to give away for free.
The magazine should be kept simple -- like the message. :)
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Kevlar2000
Dan,
ROTFLMAO!
That acronym reaaally, reaaally needs some sort of mascot.
"STIFFY - Standing firm and erect at the Bema!"
*snort!*
But seriously, why not eliminate the printed publication altogether and simply publish it as a Webzine? Save a tree, and all that.
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George Aar
Or, even better, don't publish anything at all.
Geeze, like we don't know what their take is on The Bible by now?
Well, those that follow that sort of thing, anyway...
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wwjesuslaughat
You can't tell those guys ANYTHING!! I tried to help them with the Sower a few years ago (changing format, scaling the articles down, etc.) and every suggestion I made fell on deaf ears.
Nothing happens there anymore without it being spiritual insight from M**k G*****r.
The next thing they will do is ask the fellowships for a percentage of whatever "abundant sharing" "free-will giving", whatever they call it now, that is taken in individual fellowships. Mark my words. They think they have a bigger, better, WAY!
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Second James
I hold in front of me an insert from the CES gang and it reads as follows.
"To continue receiving THE SOWER, please return this form by 4/21/06"
Name Addy--------
-- Yes I want to continue receiving THE SOWER, enclosed is my donation of $------
-- Yes I want to continue receiving THE SOWER, and I want to become a Partner. Please sign me up for $---/month ($25 minimum pledge) You will receive the Tape/CD of the month & a l5% discount on most of our bookstore items
--Yes I want to continue receiving THE SOWER, but I am unable to donate at this time. Please sign me up to receive the online version. My email addy is ------
--Yes I want to continue receiving THE SOWER, but I am unable to donate at this time. Please consider continuing to send it to me free of charge.
Seems to me they are offering 4 options as a little check box is before each "YES" where I had --
So, if you want it FREE, they'll sure consider you and most likely accomodate your situation...so Oldies..you're not entirely correct my man! BTW..I do not support CES but find some pretty interesting things presented from their ministry. The partnership idea is sure "novel" and I'm sure objectionable to alot of people...but honestly..how does it differ that much from a weekly "tithe"??? Guess they'd like to know just how much they can depend on their followers, thus the idea might be a sound one at that!! Hmmmmmmmmmm
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pond
the minimum you can give is 25 a month for the partnership program .
Mark is traveling around with his son right now for awhile visting different "believers" homes.
sure it is a money making business.. why not?
they do a fine job on that truth and tradition site.
I do think they want people to make commintments to their group and want to predict the money flow.
Mark is in college , has four kids some in college, John S. has four kids to put through, they travel alot to other countries, they have a sizable staff.
alot of family memebers they have camp vision a large area of land .
this is their career.
I think they work for it. they do what they want when they want how they want where ever they want.
I wonder how many pastors of the large churches get to travel with their family for years at a time, go to school on the abs.they live very very well many vacations alot of down time. . but hey who is to say it is wrong?
they want it big and better.. to grow , it makes more money . but I truly believe they believe in what they are doing.
I
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oldiesman
Second James,
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
I called STFI offices to help clear up this confusion, and had a nice chat with Jeff, who explained what's happening.
Apparently the letter I received in the mail, did not contain a "gold flyer" that listed the choice about STFI "considering" free distribution.
Whether that was an error on their part or an intentional omission, I do not know.
But bottom line, it costs them $5,000 a month to distribute the magazine, and they feel the financial need to quit sending it to folks who have been receiving it for some time for free but who do not make donations. Folks like me.
Apparently they want folks like me to either spit or get off the pot, that if we like the magazine, then distribute some loot, to help pay for it.
If not, the magazine is still available via email, for free.
Ya see since March 2002 I have been receiving this magazine for free and they cant afford to keep on subsidizing tightwads like me.
But let's say someone who never heard of STFI wants to receive the magazine for free, .... they WILL send it for free for 6-9 months (as per Jeff's information to me), and then at that time, they will ask for a donation.
********************
I still feel the same way... I think they could print it less fancy, and perhaps distribute it for free without having to ask for contributions.
But that's their call... it's their money.
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Out There
I don't recieve the sower and never have but hey, 5K a month is 60K a year. thats alot of $25 a month people just to send out the zine let alone pay for thier ministry.
I believe that if they feel in thier hearts that this is the ministry God has called them to who am I to judge really how they go about it. I understand the Morman church actually bills you for your ABS so these guys are asking for support. If someone feels led then give it to them.
I am not in a position to judge them to see if they are trying to become the next TWI. I do think that this is not the place to debate their sincerity.
If they win one person to God, save one life then its worth what they have done. If that person was you I am sure you would agree.
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topoftheworld
"I understand the Morman church actually bills you for your ABS so these guys are asking for support."
Don't give TWI any ideas!
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socks
Lesseee, there's been The Sower and the Contender. Without much thinking I assumed the Sower was to sow some seeds and generate interest in newbies and the Contender was for the more serious CES bibliophile who felt contention was their cup of tea.
I got the Sower for awhile, without asking for it which was kind of nice as it meant that I had a secret buddy out there somewhere who put me on the list, or maybe it was for the benefit of my lovely wife who is always remembered fondly as she has historically had the good grace to pass up opportunities to needlessly tell people what she really thinks of them. Either way, it came like clockwork for awhile. Then - a year ago? - a letter came that talked about how it wasn't going to be sent to people that never responded back with any interest, which I guess means never wrote back a thank you, or sent money or bought something. I guess.
Which made sense, sort of. Since I'd never asked for it to be sent, I had no interest in it really. Nothing caught my eye in it, which may be a giveaway of some kind that I'm too much of a deadbeat to benefit from it anyway. Don't know for sure.
After a bit it stopped coming and hasn't come since then, that I know of. But we get a lot of mail from businesses that we didn't ask for, so I could be wrong. And in a way, it's kind of nice getting all that unsolicited mail even though I complian often and loudly about it. That mailbox is always full. Mailers, fliers, offers, serious opportunities for me to buy, sell, borrow, from friends who only have my best interests at heart, they say. It's nice. It's definitely better than an empty mailbox. Empty mailboxes seem so - depressing. Hey! I'm here! Doesn't anyone want to send something? In this world we live in, it's almost suspect. No mail. What's your problem, bud?
It costs money to do stuff like this so I think it makes good business sense for anyone in the higly profitable and fast-money-streaming business of Christian-ware and Religious Gee-Gaws to balance the books now and then and see who's really being helped and responding iwth some hard cash, and who's just suckin' the straw for free. Or like me, taking valuable resources by mistake and ulitmately by false pretense as I'm too lazy to tell anyone to correct the mailing list.
I like free stuff. It's cheaper than the stuff that costs money, no question about it. If it's free, and I could use it, I'm there. But personally, getting another e-version of something I didn't want to begin with would be a waste of cyber-resources that could be put to better use sending penis enlargement ads and ways to Make Money Fast! notifications. So frankly I welcome this opportunity to avoid clogging the info-money highway. Not doing something is actually a way of doing some good. For some reason, that appeals to me.
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Seth R.
OK, so let me het this straight, in 3 years time "The Sower" went from being a 4-6 page xeroxed staple bound single color free pamphlet, to a 4 color glossy magazine? Now they want all the people who signed up for the free version to start paying?
Sounds Egotistical to me. Maybe someone should have asked God what the best thing to do was.
When I signed up for information with them in 2002 they sent me a packet (all the back issues of the sower plus 2 or three booklets and some other things) of stuff, then kept sending me "The Sower" you know what that was a bit over the top, if they would have sent tapes (thank God they didn't) it would have really freaked me out.
I wonder if the old monthly Way Magazine ever started out free? Seems to me if it makes good fertilizer I'd buy it, but these four color glossy jobs just kill my house plants.
Seth
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Out There
Seth You need to learn to be a little more patient when trying to compost 4 color way mags. If you run them through a paper shredder first, soak them in water. add a little dog or cat poop and leave them in a mulch pile to rot for about 6 weeks they are just about right then
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dmiller
Hmmmmm --- good point!
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TOMMYZ
I guess I'll have to go to the e-mail version. I got involved with them in '89 when I started exchanging letters with John L. right before our whole group left TWI. I sent them some money in the 90's and ordered some tapes sets. The last couple of years I'd read the Contender then the Sower when they came but it was more like keeping up with old friends. Best of luck to them.
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