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First of all......why is it ALWAYS about crediting wierwille? More than the pfal class, more than the collaterals.......don't the scriptures WARN US to not follow man? Secondly..........some NOT ONLY didn't heed these warnings, but also jumped to the CES "ship" and sailed further on a strayed voyage. <_<

I had a couple of experiences with him. One was actually before I got involved and a friend and I were going to a meeting that The Way was holding. We didn't even know him at that time and we were entering the back door and he was right behind us and said, "Someone got a new coat" and it was my friend who did. Once inside, we were like, how did he know that? And who is he? And then we saw him on stage. Another instance was I was living with corps and he came to town. The limb leader, branch leader and VP came to our house for dinner. I waited on table being the only non corps. He wanted more coffee and so I went to pick up his cup and he smacked me on the bottom. I remember thinking at the time, now why did he do that? Rather inappropriate wouldn't you say? But, he was the MOG so I let it go. Later we went on his motor coach to watch a movie with him. His guard dog was on the coach and I didn't realize that you don't like bend over to pet him. I loved dogs and started to go near him and the dog just went ballistic...and back me off....I slowly got up and went to the back, shaking as I did. Right then, I was ready to leave. During the movie, he changed into his PJ's which really was embarrassing to me. I was rather shocked! I was so glad when the movie was over and I could leave. The corps stayed...but I was thankful to go back to the house!!! That was enough experience for me!

You may be a TWI tool if..... You let them destroy other marriages before they got to yours. (For me, splinter group experience, but painful to consider nevertheless) You may be a TWI tool if... You falsly accuse others of slander and do not even say that you are sorry..... (No code breaking necessary I trust) You may be a TWI tool if... You are o.k. with someone being falsely accused of practically criminal actions as long as no one dares calls you "braniac."

curious

That's the one thing I really remember during the PFAL class and from reading the "collaterals" - don't take his word for it. Clearly, clearly it was a warning. I didn't take his word for anything (but really saw no real straying from his basic premise of scriptural interpretation beyond the tithe and how he thought the law of believing worked), and I think that's what "saved" me from going down the rabbit hole and spared me much of the anguish of finding out he was a fake. I always saw him as a fallen human and was amazed when people acted as though he could do no wrong. I wondered out loud to my husband one time how people would deal with VPW's inevitable death and what would happen to TWI. Would people finally get that he wasn't all that special? Then given his cause of death, that his ability to "manifest" his core beliefs didn't happen, (I get the answer to that - to blame the "unbelieving" followers as a means of deflecting the reality) It still didn't sink in until the power struggle between LCM, JAL, and CG for control (in retrospect, I do consider JAL's letters to be an attempt to persuade TWI's members to defect) that VPW might be the root cause of TWI's "issues". Anyway, no one who read the materials can't say they weren't warned about taking VPW's word for anything. Keith has said he was told personally, and it's in writing in the collaterals. Why did you (who followed him down the rabbit hole into WoWland, Corpse, Lightbearers, and FL) not heed his warning?

Good points Tzaia, The thing about the adequate warning (supposedly IMO) is that when such a thing came from a man who, IMO, had huge problems with sociopathic tendencies and narcissism is that I'm not 100% certain where he was coming from. But worthwhile possibilities include IMO: (and there certainly can be others) The warning was given by someone who was fooling themselves first and formost... The warning was given as a ploy, for instance from then on he could play the, "It's your problem, you shoulda fought for it card." It was given as a blatant manipulation by a complete con artist in order to draw in sincere but carefully held impotent (as far as ministry politics goes) folks. After all, such sincere folks were genuine and had an impact on the populace when they shared their hearts for God's Word and God's people. It was only given as a selling point in order to hide the blatant sexual and mental abuse that top leadership carried out. It was given out as bait to draw in folks who wouldn't be likely to back down because they were completely sold out on the "IDEA" of the integrity of God's Word and Wierwille, aka the teacher. ____________________________ At any rate it seems TWI and the things they taught from the bible ended up being diametrically opposed to each other.

It's a recession and a new administration in the White House. Pink slips are flying everywhere. You can't blame the schools for not finding work. My school has been helping me, amoung other services that are out there. A lot of businesses are on hiring freezes. I sit around with my peers sometimes and say "Hey, did you apply to that one job?" . . "Yep, did you?" .. ."Yep" .. . "Maybe we'll both get it" Some have even told me "Dude, there's no jobs,. . . so I signed up to go to nursing school!" :unsure:

Ruth Simmons, my number two hero, would give Miss Trina a good talking to.

I love how she says the school has not done enough to get her a job.. I want to know what She herself has done to get a job.

Teaching assistantship. I will be teaching intermediate algebra. anywhere from seventy to eighty freshmen, give or take a few.. The training program makes the prospect seem a little less.. what's the word.. terrifying.. Now I only experience brief moments of panic at the thought of what's to come.. Naw.. I know I'll do fine..

I was assigned to be Mrs. W's escort at Word in Business two consecutive years. For five days, from 7am-10pm my responsibilities included a wide-range of demanding vigilance [15-hours a day]. This corps-assigned work responsibility required extreme patience, protocol, precision and persistence......with very little personal time throughout the week. When she took a bathroom break....I needed to take a bathroom break (so as NOT to expect her to wait for me). It was a grueling week of work.......both years at WIB. Yes, Mrs. W usually gets a free pass around GS......but from someone who spent, at least, 10 full days with her, (and staying in her home a time or two) she soaked in the spotlight just like her hubby. On so many occasions, the "spiritual protocol" overwhelmed the common sense of the moment. She enjoyed people.....yes. But she ALSO enjoyed the spotlight as "twi's first lady." On a couple of occasions, my actions were not as responsive to her liking......and her glares were cold and riveting. She held her own in wielding "power" and Don Wierwille was close by to watch my servitude as well. And......the "gift table" in her WIB suite was loaded with fine items (both years).

TAing?

Now now. I plan on playing nice..

I dunno, I think this is something cults just DO. Even the RC Church has old dogma they don't like to talk about anymore. Just ask "Mr". Claus or your local cafeteria menu planner (with all that fish stored up for Fridays). And The JWs are trying pretty hard to distance themselves from the teachings of their founder - Charles Taze Russell. I think maybe he had one too many "prophecies" that didn't pan out so well. And the Mormons don't spend a whole lotta time talking about the early daze of their church either. Like the habit Mr. Smith had of prophecying by looking at a black rock placed in a white hat. Or Mr. Smith's rather dubious translation of Egyptian heiroglyphs (this was pre-Rosetta Stone) that became another "foundational" book for the early Mormons. I think it was called "The Book of Abraham" - and turned out to be basically made up out of whole cloth, the "translation" being entirely erroneous.

This one's pretty good too.

It pretty much already has--Here and at a hundred other sites--Even 99% of the people who once believed it have grown up and seen it for the swiss cheese theology that it is and moved on. It never held water and it certainly hasnt held any water over time. It never was the E=mc2 great revelation to change the world, it was more like a glass of Tang that was empty of any nutrients and had a very short shelf life. If it was released today it would be laughed at as a bizarre relic of a bygone era--I dont extend much to the honchos but they must know that

Shifra! WG

You may be a TWI tool if..... ... you spent money on a class but not your brakes which are worn out and need replaced. ... you have ever tried to "Mark and Avoid" the internet. ... you ever raved about WOW burgers. ... you only socialize with people at functions who had ministry name tags. (Not newbies) ... you miss once-in-a-lifetime events with your kids to attend a class you've taken more times than you can count. JT

You may be a TWI tool if... You are still comforted and encouraged when "the man" puts down people who are not trying to do anything but bring up relevant issues. For instance; He/she will just fade away, or I have already forgotten more scripture than _________ will ever know, or he/she is unqualified, or he/she isn't ready, or you'll be a Greasespot by midnight.

You may be a TWI tool if... While correcting ettiquette errors at the dinner table you habitually yell and have food spewing out of your mouth.

Why do you wonder? Can't you accept the information at face value without questioning his motives? Many people were hurt through the events and practices he addressed. That should be enough in and of itself as a clear reason to bring it all back up now. There are many details in his podcast that never have been brought up before. What's your motive in questioning? being aware of the leaven of the Pharisees in and of itself helps direct hearts back to the Good Shepherd As are most people who have a conscience's heart. They grieve the injustice, and the years and effort spent supporting such charlatans. This is a godly thing. I also thank God for my Savior Jesus Christ. He is the true head of the body, and stands in direct opposition to the functioning of pseudo leadership as described in Ralph's account. What's behind your message besides a veiled reference to a mote in your brother's eye? What does this veiled reference accomplish other than to discredit his account? Why is it that every genuine heart sharing here on GS seems to have people needing to attack it and discredit it immediately afterwards, all in the name of Jesus purporting to bring "healing" and "forgetting the past"? Most people here have had enough of people trying to silence the atrocities commited by the leadership of TWI by sweeping them under a carpet, paying off millions in lawsuit settlements with believers ABS, and talking about some nebulous concepts of healing and forgetting the past. They could experience that in the organization. People don't hide behavior that's appropriate, they hide behavior that is inappropriate. When the inappropriate behavior is brought to light, people can make better decisions than when it was hidden. Agreed. Even Jesus said of the Pharisees - "follow what they say, but don't do what they do". That is a day by day and thought by thought process my friend - pulling down strongholds, casting down imaginations, bringing every thought to the obedience of Christ. sincere well-meaning Christians often do the most damage. So write him a letter or give him a call. Asking about it in this forum in response to a sharing he made on events in the past serves nothing but to cast doubt on what he did share. Which Church is this you speak of? TWI? Another Christian group? The body of Christ as described in the Bible? If the latter, how can you purport to speak for the entire body of Christ to say he has not been communicating Christ? Does casting doubt upon your brother in Christ somehow bring Christ more clearly into the picture? If so, please enlighten us how.