Leaderboard

Wierwille's corps program was not a leadership program......it was a followship program. Wierwille had no interest in raising up leaders to walk in the steps of Jesus Christ......he devised a "marine-style-follow-orders" program to graduate followers who were trained to be his pfal-class instructors. True to his ideals, wierwille cried his eyes out over the likes of J0hnnie Towns3nd for his "follow-ship and heart to serve" the idolized pfal class. Later, J0hnnie was recognized as honorary corps.....because of his leadership? No.....because of his follow-ship. What was wrong with wierwille's corps program? ... 1) The foundation was twi-dependency....not the author/finisher of faith, Jesus Christ. ... 2) Too vague in promotion of "serving God"......iron-clad obedience upon graduation to twi??? ... 3) Corps "training" was too much rehash of pfal......far too much indoctrination. ... 4) No scope of true ministering....counseling.....relationships.....boundaries....adultery/sin. ... 5) Campus coordinators had to kowtow to wierwille's machinery of regimented control. ... 6) No individuality.....groupthink was standard operation. ... 7) Arrogant leadership monopolize lunchtime announcements during meals. ... 8) Childish songs were sung repeatedly...........subliminal dependency?? ... 9) After graduation, and years later......wierwille still labeled some corps as "cop-outs" ... 10) And, besides the manipulation, intimidation, exploitation...........the SEX PREDATION. When I take a long, hard look at the corps program..........it was a disgrace and disservice to God Almighty from the get-go. Not only was wierwille academically unqualified to oversee the training of future disciples, he was a wolf in sheep's clothing and intent on preying and lusting over the females. The corps program provided the isolation and secrecy for wierwille's sex predation that he voiced in 1969 when he went to those orgies in Haight-Ashbury. As the money poured into twi......the purchase of vp's motorcoach and far-away campuses and soldout bodyguards gave wierwille access to fulfill the lusts of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and wierwille's pride of life: POWER.

After reading account after account of the sexual predation, taking bribes (special "offerings for da manogawd and such), along with its lack of report to the irs, drugging of women, intellectual robbery (plagiarism).. how is it that he actually got away with it? Apparently he didn't exactly "get away with it" prior to 1942.. at least in his church. but after this, he seemed able to do pretty much as he pleased. I didn't even hear of any of this prior to Waydale and Greasespot.. granted.. in the late seventies and eighties twi had the resources to just make the "problems" go away. But I've read accounts of his predation on women in the late sixties and early seventies, when twi was really still in its formative years. No angry husband was able to "off" him.. although he admitted a couple of people tried to, in the early years.. never said why. does anyone know when this occurred? No charges of plagiarism, or copyright infringement, with the one exception: the blue sing along the way books. But those didn't bear his name either. I don't know if I'd say his hand picked goons were competent enough to really protect him. Was he just that lucky? Or did he make some kind of Faustian deal of sorts?

A Harley Rider A Harley rider is passing the zoo, when he sees a little girl leaning into the lion's cage. Suddenly, the lion grabs her by the cuff of her jacket and tries to pull her inside to slaughter her, under the eyes of her screaming parents. The biker jumps off his bike, runs to the cage and hits the lion square on the nose with a powerful punch. Whimpering from the pain the lion jumps back letting go of the girl, and the biker brings her to her terrified parents, who thank him endlessly. A New York Times reporter has watched the whole event. The reporter says, 'Sir, this was the most gallant and brave thing I saw a man do in my whole life..' The biker replies, 'Why, it was nothing, really, the lion was behind bars. I just saw this little kid in danger, and acted as I felt right.' The reporter says, 'Well, I'm a journalist from the New York Times, and tomorrow's paper will have this story on the front page.... So, what do you do for a living and what political affiliation do you have?' The biker replies, 'I'm a U..S. Marine and a Republican.' The following morning the biker buys The New York Times to see if it indeed brings news of his actions, and reads, on front page: U.S. MARINE ASSAULTS AFRICAN IMMIGRANT AND STEALS HIS LUNCH

and after he died, the veil of secrecy is slowly removed, his "ministry" basically fell apart, his children were ostracised and sent away with no inheritance, his wife was shamefully treated, the group at least for a while lost its precious tax exempt status.. roughly 97 percent of followers fled in later years, many top leaders are (in my observation) watched and viewed with suspicion, some are viewed as having committed war crimes, and.. the vicster's *great work* is basically buried. Except for a few illegal copies, here and there. It it was a vote, I'd choose "Faustian deal".

The guy was Teflon coated. If there were doubts, people gave him the benefit. Because of the outward vices (drinking and smoking) I think people believed he was transparent and honest. His "vices" made him appear to be like one of us, when he really didn't think he was one of us. He trained a whole army of people to promote, protect, and defend his status as the chosen.

Thank you, Twinky and Waterbuffalo (nice to see you ~!) it has been a beautiful thing for my girls. Samantha was 15 and Kelly 23 months when their father died and so having a memorial tree is important, yes. We've kicked around different ideas as to marking it, a rock, something but we also rent our home so for that reason we've kept it simply a little tree growing in our yard. We do need a place to go and do as we feel comforts us or provides us solice, yes. We were also given a gravesite at a local cemetary. We'll see what we end up doing as time goes. The daddy tree is a place where beloved pets have been buried, flowers have been planted, stories have been told. It's been run over by a snowplow, squashed by a pickup, run over by a lawnmower twice and yet it lives and grows. :) I struggle with our situation; the girls not having something in the world that says their father lived and died, but I also understand that it's not his death that did so much to their lives as it was his life.

which makes me ask.. why would someone with a half a brain or conscience want to resurrect it? The NOVICE running it considers the old corps a success.. apparently he isn't aware, or considers your observations of vic and the old corps to be of any relevance:

It's also true in corporations, in neighborhoods, in schools, in just about anything involving people. I believe they call it human nature. Isn't the idea of most religions to aspire to a higher nature? Yet every one of them has its hierarchy, in-fighting, and all the worst characteristics of humanity. Adherents of the various sects of the Muslim religion are killing each other daily and have been for centuries. The Palestinians and the Jews can't seem to figure it out. The Catholics and Protestants in Ireland don't have a great track record. Holy cow! (with apologies to anyone of the Hindu faith reading this). One of the first and best lessons my parents taught me was that I should never consider any other type/class/race/group of people inferior to me, to make myself feel superior. I like to think I learned that lesson well, and I try not to let that kind of thinking creep into my pea brain, but if I'm brutally honest with myself, I know that at times I've fallen prey to it, usually when I'm feeling insecure. Maybe that's the problem of religions. Perhaps they have collective inferiority complexes!

Why is it that many christians feel the need to sub-categorize and label each other? Are members in particular to be compared to one another? Is my elbow better than my knee?

Pretty much. Arrogant, is it not?

I got the distinct impression that TWI believers were considered the only "true" Christians. If one didn't call oneself a Christian in TWI, it was only because one didn't want to be aligned with false Christians, which was pretty much everyone else.

Two more predictions for Jeff. ">

Bowtwi's prediction for Jeff's future.

One of you "elders" is worse than Esau.. you sold your soul and heritage for one stinking tank of gas.. if you are reading this, it might be an "oh my god" moment.. just think back..

He was the king,Everyone bowed before him or they were history, One of my first thoughts of the way was,why are there so many pictures of him? You would think everyone revolves around him.Maybe thats why it took me 2 years before I took said miracle class. Once exposed of course it fell apart quickly.

Damned those 3%!

People have often wondered the same thing about many controversial historic figures, such as Hitler, Mussolini,Castro, Jim Jones, etc. I don't think there is an easy explanation. Early on, these kind of people develop and surround themselves with an impervious core of dedicated loyalists. They are very careful not to divulge their true nature in the early stages. They tend to eliminate malcontents quickly and quietly to divert harmful attention away from themselves. It seems to be a common phenomenon with political figures. You find yourself wondering why someone didn't just step forward and end their madness. I can tell you from personal experience that if you wanted to discuss such matters regarding TWI, in the mid 1970's, you had to make darn sure the person you confided in was trustworthy.

From Skyrider on another thread: you pathetic "old timers" who snagged junior in this disgrace: what are you doing, that is any bit different? The only thing I can say that MIGHT be different, is number 9 and 10 on the list. For now at least. I can't say either way. The relevance here though, even if you didn't partake in gramps sin, were you AWARE of it? If so, how does that affect your "qualifications" to lead? Do you still sweep gramps real legacy under the rug? The worst part.. you raised junior to believe that gramps was some kind of bible super hero..

I think I've read a few times here posters saying that twi claimed to be christian. I don't recall ever claiming to be a christian as a wayfer. "christian" was taught to be a derogatory term. We viewed all trinitarians as worshipers of a different god. We used the term "believer" but I don't think it was to be equated as "christian". We basically believed christians were against the teachings of the bible. They were deluded and weak. twi claims to be "followers of the Lord Jesus Christ" but believes christians follow "a different jesus" "Christians should be prosperous" is about the only publication that comes to mind with the word "christian". But that was an earlier work wasn't it? It could be seen in modern way-world as a back-hand to those "weak, powerless christians". In fact, every now then I hear a wayfer talk about how they visited a church and they comment on how the church people have "no power" , how they are "two-dimensional", just no "depth to their being". I don't think a wayfer wants to be equated with christianity.

I was introduced to a number of rankings for Christians over the years. The ones that stand out most in my mind are: Nominal, Believers, Disciples. Today I read about another: Notional. As defined, a "notional" Christian is one who holds (even passionately) to notions, doctrines, and propositions about Christ (or Christianity in general) yet bear no fruit. Sound like any organization you know?

I think we can trace the vicster's despotic tendencies back to 1942. Maybe even earlier.. in his interview with Whiteside, he describes crying his little eyes out and telling "god" if he didn't give him something he didn't have to back down on, that he could take his religion and stick it somewhere else.. I don't remember ever seeing him in the position where he "backed down" on ANYTHING.. maybe someone else has.. who knows.. maybe he made some kind of "deal" with a different kind of entity in the office across from the gas pumps..

It's not enough to feel superior to the non-Christians - folks have to feel superior to each other too. And the other faiths aren't any better, the arguments among pagans about whose traditions are more authentic and who can be called a real Wiccan are reminiscent of the looking-down-the-nose attitude of the Christians that II know

I didn't create the categories. I think many who were involved in our previous organization and many who are still in hold to the notion that "right" doctrine is fruit. I know I did for a long time. Is it?

not that I am so important as to quote myself.. but wasn't the "prevailing" (pun intended) attitude.. all we owe *them*.. is "da VERD"?

In a general sense.. or rather culturally.. I suppose I still consider myself "Christian".. every half-decent thought the "representative" of *our* religion expressed as far as love of God (who I refuse to attempt to define anymore).. and neighbor.. who I can define.. I embrace.

Yeah.. the explanations. We don't believe in a trinity.. don't think the dead are conscious in any capacity.. don't think good works are necessary for a *christian* lifestyle.. but we agreed that sex generally wasn't ok outside of marriage.. except for exempt cases, like relieving herr manogawd and immediate subordinates.. generally.. were not any resemblance to Christianity in any cultural or moral sense.. what then WERE we.. followers.. of what?

Something has to motivate someone to want that kind of control. . . . a deep seated insecurity or there is something at stake. . . like money. . . . or a power grab. Seems so similar to TWI. . . but, a cult is a cult . . . . at some point people have got to want something better than these same behaviors and same people messing with their lives. . . . . . . I don't care HOW sincere they are. . . it is poisonous. Why keep going back to the same kind of abusive tactics. . . . because one thinks that it is the only place where "truth" is? Time to take a pass on that kind of destructive truth. . . . Where is the faith?

Yes, the superiority complex was pride, ego, and sickening. It was us deceiving ourselves, like I John talks about, saying we were walking in the light but dwelling in darkness. How many friendships, families, marriages were damaged by the pride and ego involved? TWI "believers" want to convince themselves they are better than your average Christian. However, in reality, they are far below par for you average Christian, however you measure it.

some verses in acts, peter of Paul or someone talking to King Agrippa?? but the quote was "thou almost convincest me, thou christian" - this was usually quoted in a very snotty tone with a wrinkled nose. I think raf did article on it . . . well that's all Raf had on it. this was the verse used Acts 2:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Looking back for me the air of self superiority we had was sickening Bolshevik. BLECH! But even today, some Christians who I've met may consider me to be non-christian because of certain beliefs I suppose. I guess supieriority and condescension is bigger than a TWI problem, it is a human problem. But we gotta talk about the stuff in our own lives like TWI I guess.

Make fun of my name? Immature, like I said before. That's a character issue. I did not condemn 'everyone'. You did. You said: Simple answer is no, they hated to witness. They loved to teach. I think they liked to teach so they caould look so spiritual. Speak for yourself. I walked in other people's shoes. I graduated from the Way Corps and was not like that. No, I am not here to 'grind my axe', I just made a comment. If you have really been here for three years like your profile shows, I think you might come to the realization that you might (just might) explore another road to freedom. I am sincerely glad you think this helps - I was just making an observation. I won't bring it up with you again. I'm not the one with the 'Daddy issues' here. I went through, I saw and I left. End of story. Yes, I was screwed like you were. On to better things. 'Won't Get Fooled Again'. Is it not fair to express my opinion? Do I have to 'pig-pile' to get accepted here? That's unusual. Seriously. If I don't dump on the Way, I'm the jerk? Come on. I was just commenting that I don't see the benefit in some of these posts. Real forensic bitching at times. Go ahead - I have an open mind - explain it to me.

I'm so sorry you had such a terrible time of it. You and I probably look at things differently. Once I'd realized it was a brown recluse, I'd have hi-tailed it back to where it was and given it a good whoop-foot just on general principle! But they are one of the worst bites there is! [if you don't count shark or crocodile]

That FMLA is a non-issue and serves to confuse this thread. Now for the antagonistic, please note I said the FMLA serves to confuse this thread - not that Krys serves to confuse this thread. That is why I recommended our thread starter check her state laws. The FMLA is a milk-toast law. Some states have much more employee friendly state laws. For the curious; check out California maternity leave law. It is not quite cut and dried but it provides plenty of ways for employees to maintain an income, benefits, and, perhaps most importantly their job not just their place of employment while on paternity/maternity leave. The FMLA was designed by a typically self-serving congress to placate pregnant women and a few men. All it really does is preserve your place of employment - heck it doesn't even guarantee your job - just your place of employment - you could go back from being an administrative assistant at $80K/yr to being a janitor at $25K/yr and the employer is within their federal "rights" under FMLA.

i'd like that job too

i am curious as to what job pays for a week off if not using holiday or vacation or sick days? it's not a normal thing in my experience so i wouldn't expect it.

I too need more information before becoming incensed: Was he given the week off without asking for it? Was there an understanding that he would be paid, maybe based on previous situations? Was he told that he would be paid? Where I work, we can take advantage of the family Medical Leave Act (FMLA) and take up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave for medical reasons (including family medical)and come back to the same job and rate of pay. We have a Paid Time Off (PTO) benefit where we can be paid for the time off up to the amount of PTO earned (it varies based on how many hours you work and your seniority) - we can also purchase short term disability insurance.

Maybe I missed something. How exactly is this situation Obama's fault?