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It’s crossed my mind that if I were that twisted, which I am not because I am not a psychopath, I have all the tools, experience and knowledge to start my own cult. How easy it would be to do that rather than get a job. It wouldn’t be hard to find the local lonesome people who need a purpose in life and who have jobs so they can give me 15% of their income. I went WOW three times, I am good at that. No disrespect to the lonesome people but that’s who we sold the class to the fastest. That’s who came for the kisses and free coffee cake. I can’t imagine, as a father today, allowing active drug addicts, homeless people and someone I met at the laundry mat into my house where my kids are living their lives. The whole thing is so weird. But anyway, yes let’s start a cult. I can help you.

Interesting, really, how secretive TWI is when one understands the openness that is to be found in many churches. Some churches have several services in different styles on Sundays. And the sermon (at least) of at least one of those services is frequently put up online the next day. This enables regular attenders to listen again, or to catch a sermon for the first time if they couldn't attend the service. It also enables total strangers to "listen in" to what that church sermonizes about. Compare and contrast with TWI. TWI requires folk to sign up for a subscription (to be paid for) to receive a recording of the SNS sermon (sorry, teaching). Nothing current is available online. As far as I can tell, it's not even possible to "log in" to the TWI site (supposing you a Wayfer), to catch up on a missed sermon/teaching. Compare and contrast, too, with TWI's biggest splinter group, CFFM. They put their whole service up online together with other teaching series. Love 'em or hate 'em, you know what you're getting and they are trying to be open about what they're doing. No prizes for working out which arrangement is more likely to move the Word over the world, to spread the gospel, or even just to instill confidence that the teachings/sermon are legitimate and not some crank's ideas about ... who knows what. (In fact, even cranks post their musings online for all to see and hear.) I haven't heard RFR or JYdL teach that I can recall, it's far too long ago: but I suffered enough under LCM. That man couldn't keep a clean mouth. I learned more foul words and expressions during SNS and especially Corps Night teachings than I ever heard anywhere before. Nah, you wouldn't want those "sermons" available for all to listen in to. Maybe an early thing for Jean-Yves to do would be to arrange for a more interactive website with publicly-available teachings. Yah, that's really gonna happen.

Upper leadership knew the retention rate of new recruits was abysmal. That's why they pushed so hard to run more and more people through the class. It's like fishing. You cast your line countless times in expectation of an eventually successful catch. It also explains why the *donation* (price) fluctuated so widely over the years. It was adjusted to suit whatever the market would bear, not to fill a profit expectation. As recruiters, we were an unpaid sales force, working without commission. Last I heard, The Way is sitting on about a 60 million dollar nest egg. Peanuts in today's economy. Nothing to take lightly, though.

Allan, thank God you and your wife got out. From what I have read here at the GSC, many couples paid a huge price, in so many different ways, for staying in.

"It wouldn’t be hard to find the local lonesome people who need a purpose in life and who have jobs so they can give me 15% of their income." I think this hits on an aspect of The Way that at lot of people miss. It wasn't about the bible. it wasn't about helping others. It wasn't even about the money they made from the class. It was about bringing people to a level of commitment that would have them freely giving 15% (or more) of every paycheck...week after week, month after month, year after year. That was the big plan. (as I see it.)

I hope that maybe anyone who leaves can actually encounter the living word of God (Jesus) instead of just studying the words on the pages of their Bibles and concordances. There's a huge difference. I didn't realize how big of a Pharisee I was and how I was burdening people instead of encouraging them and making their burden lighter. There is so much MORE available than what the Way and a lot of the offshoots can offer. I love being in a group that realizes no one has it all together and we all (different ministries and even churches ) need each other.

Order the Cult starter kit – call now, (smooth) operators are standing by Call in the next 10 millennium and you’ll also receive: Crash-course in personality make-over: become that charming narcissistic megalomaniac that you’ve always wanted to be! Lessons in Lockbox Logistics: learn the complex operation of hiding bodies, crimes, misdemeanors, witnesses, and more! Buzzword Generator app: puts you in the driver seat of any conversation! Original Research Sampling Techniques: who thought of it first? Who cares!?!? Plagiarism smagiarism. Autographed copy of “How I Did It” by Elmer Gantry. Now how much do you think a minimum required donation would be for all of the above? Well, the next caller who really believes they can’t start a cult without all of this $hit stuff will also receive the book “How to Sin Against Friends and Compromise Scruples”.

The big NO:

That has to be the nicest way of calling someone a complete @$$ - ki$$er I have ever heard in my life.

Don't know if you will remember me....I was on about 13 years ago, then not until now. I started out as chinson ... then married Stevelw! .... and kinda dropped off the map. Update: kids are all grown, still very happily married to Stevelw! , got a masters in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and am now writing my dissertation for a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Working as a mental health therapist and loving life! Wanted to get back to "the spot" cuz so much of my life was made better by the loving people on this site and the support, friendship, and occasional kick in the butt... So...Hello Again (music from the Jazz Singer with Neil Diamond swells)

SMH... btw, MRAP, have you read Undertow yet?

"The Rev" #1 will serve with "the Rev" #2 and "the Rev" #3. paper mache Olde English titles for modern day irrelevant moral midgets.

Wow! rosalie even people within your 'inner circle' talk amongst themselves about you,tells me alot about you.Let's not forget the many lawsuits which you were involved in....JYDL seems you need to take alot of trash out or 'burn the chaff'

The same thing? There were allegations of sexual impropriety (okay, rape) against Paul? Gosh, I didn't know that! Yes, can see why "most of the believers" would leave his ministry, and turn against him. They were wise ... if that were the case.

Indeed, Wierwille was not physically attractive... but, seduction is not limited to sex. In fact, if the seduction techniques used in twi had been of the kind to reach into the soul of a person and touch that soul with a word or an action that demonstrated a kindness to the person that was meaningful, THAT is seduction. Seduction without ulterior motives. I suspect that kind of seduction took place from time to time in twi, AND elsewhere, and provided a kind of deliverance to plenty of people. If twi could have understood that, and effectively communicated it, we might not be sitting here writing posts on GSC right now. Alas, because the organization was corrupt at its core, because the heart of its founder appeared not to know that truth, twi couldn't make it the foundation of its growth strategy. Anyway, just a little bit of my stream of consciousness for the moment. Thanks for indulging me. Btw, a couple of TED talks opened my eyes to the notion that seduction is not always or only about sex.

[size="3"]I detest the Way International corporation more and more every day. Reading this makes me angry that I supported this corporation for 19 years with my money and my life. I am not perfect and have done many things wrong in my life, but I have confessed my sins to God and asked for forgiveness. I wonder if Jan has ever done that? God bless the families of those murdered 'believers'.[/size]