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As a different direction with respect to all of the philosophical angles on the law of believing, I am considering Jesus teachings in Matt 6:27 “which of you by taking thought can add one cubit to his stature?” Jesus contrasted all the wasted mental effort in the “law of believing” type of magical mental focus and instead told them to trust God and enjoy life and they would be taken care of. He highlighted the fruitlessness of whatever form of mental thought game a person plays actually changing physical reality.

https://www.learnreligions.com/word-of-faith-errors-700135 https://www.gotquestions.org/Word-Faith.html https://www.equip.org/articles/whats-wrong-with-the-word-faith-movement-part-one/ https://www.harmonychurchofgod.org/spiritual-faqs/the-false-teaching-of-the-word-and-faith-movement-part-1 https://truthwatchers.com/the-word-of-faith-heresy/ vpw ripped "the Law of Believing"- which he originally titled "the Magic of Believing" for a short time before changing the name- from EW Kenyon and other questionable sources. The Word of Faith movement has some VERY serious problems associated with it, and the "believing" doctrines.

thanks OldSkool, I really appreciate that !

From the second link, https://www.gotquestions.org/Word-Faith.html Word of Faith teaching is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price. The Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the late 20th century. Its founder was E. W. Kenyon, who studied the metaphysical New Thought teachings of Phineas Quimby. Mind science (where "name it and claim it" originated) was combined with Pentecostalism, resulting in a peculiar mix of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Kenneth Hagin, in turn, studied under E. W. Kenyon and made the Word of Faith movement what it is today. Although individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous, what follows is the basic theology most Word of Faith teachers align themselves with. At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God’s sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god. From here, its theology just strays further and further from Scripture: it claims that God created human beings in His literal, physical image as little gods. Before the fall, humans had the potential to call things into existence by using the faith-force. After the fall, humans took on Satan’s nature and lost the ability to call things into existence. In order to correct this situation, Jesus Christ gave up His divinity and became a man, died spiritually, took Satan’s nature upon Himself, went to hell, was born again, and rose from the dead with God’s nature. After this, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to replicate the Incarnation in believers so they could become little gods as God had originally intended. Following the natural progression of these teachings, as little gods we again have the ability to manipulate the faith-force and become prosperous in all areas of life. Illness, sin, and failure are the result of a lack of faith, and are remedied by confession—claiming God’s promises for oneself into existence. Simply put, the Word of Faith movement exalts man to god-status and reduces God to man-status. Needless to say, this is a false representation of what Christianity is all about. Obviously, Word of Faith teaching does not take into account what is found in Scripture. Personal revelation, not Scripture, is highly relied upon in order to come up with such absurd beliefs, which is just one more proof of its heretical nature. Countering Word of Faith teaching is a simple matter of reading the Bible. God alone is the Sovereign Creator of the Universe (Genesis 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15) and does not need faith—He is the object of faith (Mark 11:22; Hebrews 11:3). God is spirit and does not have a physical body (John 4:24). Man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6), but this does not make him a little god or divine. Only God has a divine nature (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalm 8:6-8). Christ is Eternal, the Only Begotten Son, and the only incarnation of God (John 1:1, 2, 14, 15, 18; 3:16; 1 John 4:1). In Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). By becoming a man, Jesus gave up the glory of heaven but not His divinity (Philippians 2:6-7), though He did choose to withhold His power while walking the earth as man. The Word of Faith movement is deceiving countless people, causing them to grasp after a way of life and faith that is not biblical. At its core is the same lie Satan has been telling since the Garden: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5). Sadly, those who buy into the Word of Faith movement are still listening to him. Our hope is in the Lord, not in our own words, not even in our own faith (Psalm 33:20-22). Our faith comes from God in the first place (Ephesians 2:8; Hebrews 12:2) and is not something we create for ourselves. So, be wary of the Word of Faith movement and any church that aligns itself with Word of Faith teachings.

There are long posts that say something meaningful and then there are long posts that.....well, you know.

Thanks to all the posters on this thread who can read through Mike's posts/crap and speak directly to what he's doing and saying. My head just wants to explode when I read them. Your work to power wash such ramblings is good for one's mental health .

Remember that old Sam Cooke song "You Absent Me"?

I know Kenneth Copeland has been mentioned on GSC before. He was the first preacher I started following shortly after leaving twi because of his teachings being similar to vp. I didn't stick with him for long though. He has a net worth of $300 million plus a private jet. Here is a quote from his website "How to Present Your Tithe to Jesus." (underlining is mine) The 3 paragraphs in italics are the end part of this "confession in faith." If you’re ready to take your tithing to the next level, present your tithe to Jesus by speaking this confession in faith: Jesus, as my Lord and High Priest, I bring the firstfruits of my income, which You have given me. I expect You to set it before the Father and worship Him with it. I rejoice in all the good which You have given to me and my household. I have listened to the voice of the Lord my God and have done according to all that You have commanded me. Now look down from heaven, Your holy habitation, and bless me, Your son and servant, according to Your riches in glory. Bless my job and the work of my hands as You have promised in Your Word. I declare THE BLESSING is pouring out, and there’s not enough room to receive it! God, You have rebuked the devourer for my sake. The work of my hands will not be destroyed and come to nothing. Today, I am experiencing God’s supernatural increase, and I walk in it by faith. I worship You, Lord, and I call it done, in Jesus’ Name. When you take the time to stop and honor the Lord with your tithe—offering it to Him with prayer, thanksgiving and honor—you will see a powerful change in both your relationship with the Lord and your faith for finances. Don’t let the devil rob you of the blessing that comes from tithing. The windows of heaven are open over you in Jesus’ Name! I don't know anything about how he runs his organization, how hierarchical it is, but based on the name of your thread and the fact he is so big in the faith movement, it probably is and so much more. Well, since his treasure/reward is here down on earth, I'm suspecting there won't be any for him in heaven.

Very interesting reference material T Bone. I never before realized how evil and widespread this “faith movement” is. Name it and claim it. Wow. No God involvement at all except for God needing to “obey the law of believing”. Come on dashboard Jesus where is my prosperity? And the manifestation of believing is kind of a “hedge your bets” word of faith. Why no results? Either no revelation or you didn’t beeeeeeeeleeeeeeeeeeeeve enough. I guess the more you look at PFAL the more you see since it is a hodge podge of plagiarized sources it is not tremendously coherent between the sources. The Frankenstein stitches are pretty visible.

From the first link..... Dangers of the Word of Faith Movement Word of Faith preachers are common on television and have massive followings. They typically teach that God wants his people to be healthy, wealthy, and happy all the time and that speaking the right words, in faith, will compel God to deliver on his part of the covenant. Most believers in mainline Christian doctrine disagree. They say the Word of Faith movement is false and twists the Bible to primarily enrich the Word of Faith leaders themselves. Many of them live in mansions, wear expensive clothes, drive luxurious cars, and some even have private jets. These preachers rationalize that their lavish lifestyles are proof that Word of Faith is true. Word of Faith is not a Christian denomination or uniform doctrine. Beliefs vary from preacher to preacher, but they generally profess that children of God have a "right" to the good things in life, if they ask God and believe correctly. The following are three key Word of Faith errors. Error #1: God Is Obligated to Obey People's Words Words have power, according to Word of Faith beliefs. That's why it is often called "name it and claim it." Word of Faith preachers isolate verses such as Mark 11:24, often citing them out of context, to emphasize their beliefs: The Bible, in contrast, teaches that God's will determines the answer to our prayers: God, as a loving heavenly Father, gives us what is best for us, and only he is capable of determining that. Countless faithful Christians have prayed for healing from illness or disability yet remain unhealed. On the other hand, many Word of Faith preachers who claim healing is only a prayer away wear eyeglasses and go to the dentist and doctor. This error is dangerous because it leads followers to a false understanding of God's sovereign nature and a faith that is unstable. When our faith is not built on the solid foundation of God's truth it will easily crumble and fail. Error #2: God's Favor Results in Riches Financial abundance is a common thread among Word of Faith preachers, causing some to call this the "prosperity gospel" or "health and wealth gospel." Supporters claim that God is eager to shower worshipers with money, promotions, large homes, and new cars, citing such verses as Malachi 3:10: But the Bible abounds with passages that warn of pursuing money instead of God, such as 1 Timothy 6:9-11: Hebrews 13:5 cautions us not to always be wanting more and more: Wealth is not a sign of favor from God. Many drug dealers, corrupt businessmen, and pornographers are wealthy. Conversely, millions of hardworking, honest Christians are poor. This error is dangerous because it leads followers into a life of self-centered and selfish pursuits, disillusionment with God, and at worst, the sin of idolatry. Error #3: Humans Are Little Gods Human beings are created in the image of God and are "little gods," claim some Word of Faith leaders. They imply that people are capable of controlling a "faith force" and have the power to bring their desires into being. They cite John 10:34 as their proof text: This Word of Faith teaching is blatant idolatry. Jesus Christ was quoting Psalm 82, which referred to judges as "gods"; Jesus was stating that he was above judges as the Son of God. Christians believe there is one God only, in three Persons. Believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit but are not little gods. God is a creator; humans are his creations. To attribute any type of divine power to humans is unbiblical. Perhaps the most dangerous aspect of the Word of Faith movement is its power to deceive and entice people away from biblical truth. Since the days of the Garden of Eden, Satan has been effectively twisting the truth as a weapon against God's people. The believer's best defense against this cunning enemy is to know the truth through diligent and consistent Bible study.

Mike: "This is my justification for offering to “explain” the Great Principle better than VPW explains it in the God-breathed collaterals. I am surprised no one called me on that." One might hope that, over the last 20 years, you might have gotten past your previous claim that the current Bibles were NOT "God-breathed" but that the pfal collaterals WERE "God-breathed." You've actually been trying to CONCEAL your positions on both, but sometimes they slip out any way. It's dishonest and deceptive to do this, but for you, it's business as usual. Between underhanded and unprincipled practices, and just plain nonsense like this, it should surprise no one that you have no credibility here.... or anywhere else that you reveal some of the truth about your doctrines and actions. Is it really worth it to deceive people, knowing that, as soon as they know the truth, your credibility will plummet? No, it is not. */*/* Mike: "Like the law of believing, the Great Principle is a Great Enigma that pops up in the class RATHER UNSUPPORTED. " So, even you admit that the so-called "law of believing" and the so-called "Great Principle" are claimed in pfal but aren't SUPPORTED. Claims were made, and we trusted vpw despite there being no Scriptural justification for his claims. We're free of that now. You are not, and don't expect us to volunteer to go back into the bondage and servitude to doctrines and practices of greedy people who see us only as commodities.

Look I can understand covering that scripture section as it is an illustration of the parents and the boy born blind experiencing hardship in life due to the nature of life and not due to their own fault. Jesus healed him. Everybody heard about it. He just moved right in and handled it. He didn’t pray to God lo shonta lo shonta oh Father please give me a cookie. My hand is reaching up there Father. Oh I can heal this boy. Let me beeeeeeeeeeeeleeeeeeevvvve and it will occur. True life Christianity is much simpler than the twisted up instruction manual left for being spiritual from the Great Principle. But charts take up space and lengthen classes. More content for your money.

Jesus did not say that only those with direct revelation can believe to grow an inch. But like Pinocchio your nose grows an inch every time you insert the leaven of the Pharisees into a verse.

And when you get those damn Pharisees and their judgement off your back and just go live life without their evil gaze around things just work out, don’t they? Plans fall into place, hanging out together opens up new avenues, the community and medical advances help, and you’re not semi suicidal due to a gaslighting guilt trip being laid at your responsibility. I’m speaking in general and in analogy of my own life but I suspect that is the same with yours.

Your language is so culty. ”Missed the mark in believing” There is no “believing” in that section. Literally no word close to believing there. You have a lust to insert VPW logic wherever you see a gap. Look if this BS is so sketchy after multiple decades somehow people studying or don’t get it, it’s because it is fake and non existent. PFAL isn’t one of the top 10 math unsolved problems. It is just a pilfered outline and a faked result. ”Worked this angle of the law of believing” culty I have not started with a PFAL promise and “worked it” to prove that scripture backs it up in more than 10 years. Instead I start with scripture and just study that and PFAL logic can F off.

Actually Jesus mentioned nothing of “power believing” there. But I note your condescending tone to others. Funny how right after I correct you in class materials you get a big head and start mouthing off like other people have forgot it. All those collateral studies seem to be like helium to you. You just can’t shut off the ego before your head inflates like a weather balloon. You missed the savior once again. Jesus is literally saying right there that mental gymnastics like “power believing” will never change anything in the physical realm. There is NO iron man suit with a super believe button. All that including the Great Principle is a mental model VP invented because his stunted morals would not allow him to display the gift of the spirit in front of others and needed remedial lessons from a charismatic preacher who led over 10,000 into SIT from reports. The scriptural evidence for a manifestation of believing is slim to none. Calling the heroic acts in Hebrews 11 that is robbing the glory from the saints whose lives mattered and switched it to a stupid formula that magnifies VPW.

And a lot more of his podcasts can be found here.

Not only searching for the truth, but Im hard pressed to be able to categorize any of their expenses as anything more than sales and self-preservation. Thats from a cabinet perspective.

Law of Believing: "60% of the time it works every time."

I knew someone who died trying to make it work. Then, the ministry blamed him for not having big enough believing. He left behind a wife and 2 young kids.