Leaderboard

Many GSC readers will be familiar with Steven Hassan's name and anti-cult message. This TED talk by Hassan is poignant (and has been for more than 40 years) and is salient today. It's less than 14 minutes long. The concept is far from limited to religion (including fundamentalist groups like twi) or politics. Hassan cites other ways people might be subject to this kind of mental/emotional manipulation. BTW, all humans are subject to being conned. I have been and not only by Victor Wierwille or Loy Martindale.

If you hear the joke about "millions now smoking" for the 758th time and laugh on cue... You just might be brainwashed.

Picking up this thread after a looong search for the best thread pick up, hope I judged correctly enough! I am comparing the structure and teachings/inferences in the Assembly of God church I am now a partner in, w/ those of twi/vpw et al. The irony of vp lauding the early church model of church in the home, i.e a grassroots movement, and condemning later "organized" denominations that met in church buildings, really strikes me. (Especially in light of the current movement of many church-building-churches to emphasize small groups that meet in homes, as well as the large gatherings in the church building on Sunday.) He CLAIMED a decentralized free-flowing Spirit-led movemen t, whi ch it was in some key ways; but ALWAYS, he was to be honored as the Apostle Paul was, (claims to the contrary), and kept an iron grip on the power, money, psyches, and Biblical doctrines of twi. In CONTRAST, the Assembly of God folks (not that I have allegiance towards any particular denom), emphasize small groups, have a lead pastor VERY accountable to a local board, and have a central office somewhere in Indianapolis I assume, and I THINK a US headquarters? The Way Tree myth that elevated Jerusalem got implanted in my cultized brain, I am more fully realizing. The AOG church as a whole is structured much more like the 1st Century church in keyways, than twi ever was!!! Twi HEADQUARTERS WAS THE CHURCH BUILDING/physical location that ppl identified with and flocked to whenever possible, magnified 1000 times! Names like the Biblical Research Center, or WOW Auditorium didn't really change a THING IMO. Yes, human beings tend to ID with and attach to physical locations, especially where their hearts are drawn to God. But the concept that twi was the 1st Century church in the 20th, was PURE FICTION AND DECEPTION. (Sometimes I still long for the free flow of how twi grew, and I do love how the early church was apparently structured and flowed. Apparently the Gospel is moving beautifully in India with Sangat Bain's ministry which is based only on home churches, and has Zero Headquarters.) But right now, I am learning, growing, and worshipping in this local church which BTW, is connecting more and more w/ other churches in our town, YAY!) And am coming out of Cult Fog, and viewing the Evolution of The "Biblically-centered" Church from it's earliest days until now as something to learn from, honor, and feel a part of. Thank you GSC-ers for still being here!!

Will give it a listen, thanks!

I doubt your conclusions Raf, though I respect your right to voice them.

I would agree. Simultaneously he poured water on the fire of the “Groovy Christians of Rye NY” and in both cases placed his goon Way Corps grads leading both West and East Coast arms of the movement - Moynihan was one of them. The only survival of the Jesus movement persisted in the influence of Calvary Chapel which produced a new denomination of Christianity and various other Christian movement changes. The Jesus movement, which was originally one that originated from the fire in the hearts of the masses, was overrun by the weeds of human greed and corporate institutions. “The Way” or “The So-Called Way” or “The Way International” produced a rock star existence for VP and a subservient existence for the lay follower. A stagnant pool of lust for power and bondage.

vpw did indeed play a historically significant part in the Jesus Revolution. By being the person who single-handedly ended the House of Acts, he ended the emerging movement of genuine Christianity and guidance of the Holy Spirit among the young of California, who already were making national headlines. As such, vpw did more to impede the movement of God's Word and replace it with calcifying religion than anyone else that decade. I'm sure the devil was VERY impressed with him.

I worked at a WOW Burger tent with Stevie Kay and a recent conversation had me look her up and we had a really nice conversation. But she doesn't seem to want to talk about it and I don't blame her. As for "is it different now?". Probably not enough to make it right. They cling to VPW in an L. Ron Hubbard retro history way. The entire thing is the house the foolish man built upon the sand. It was rotten for so long that being 'different now' is moot. The reason people don't leave is mostly fear based and that's not a good thing. They should make sure there's a bucket of condoms at the Young Adult Rock.

Those do look like old photos! brining may be a typo but it kinda fits. I assume they want to invoke memories of events long past, get the old time vibe going. "Better than ever, even better than best!" The age qualification reeks of a generational cleansing. The oldest would be born in 1989. The mid to late 80's saw the first influx of evacuees, post Geer taking a dump on the whole thing in 86. Martindale "resigned" in 2000. Will there be a "Rest for the Aged" event for the elders? A "Senior Acres of Shakers" drum circle? Maybe a virtual "Don't Stop Breathing Or Believing!" cheese and whine pairing event? The original RoA was a night during the Winter Advance of 1971 that was called Rock of Ages. That summer of 1971 was the first R of A gathering. Over the next few years the event went from local fairgrounds to the Way's property in New Knoxville, "the farm". It took on a life of it's own and to a great degree became a social meet up of the Way Corps each year. Early on it became a homecoming event for WOW Ambassadors. People from other countries came as the outreach reached out. I remember the year after Emporia'd been up and running and the RoA meeting when Martindale spoke to the Corps there and crowed on and on about how he had a great realization that hey! we don't just have to get together to have FUN, not that there's anything WRONG with that but hey! he could MEET with Corps, those coming into Emporia, going out, interested in the program, DO SOME WORK, get work done MOVING THE WORD. My wife and I looked at each other and thought the same thing - uh oh, there goes that. He and his leadership clones at Emporia, then staff then all the field leadership all suddenly came to the same "realization" and it became an all day schedule of them trying to figure out reasons to meet because they didn't want everyone having FUN all day. The social side of it was something that was natural and followed the social trends of the youth culture of that era. Both coasts were developing the new formats for concerts and events, Woodstock had occurred, etc. etc. The R of A's generated out of that social atmosphere, with their own twist. VPW had his own ideas of course and he spoke of it being a time for WC to meet each other, kind of an in house Tinder hook up for singles. I am well aware of all the discussions that have exposed the sexual activities over the years but to be honest, whoever was hooping up, from VPW on down, they kept their sexual partnering pretty secret and the edges I saw or heard about weren't common knowledge. In most legal settings what they did would meet the criteria for "lies" and lying, as there was intent to deceive and knowingly defend a false set of statements or facts....but I digress. It was garden variety lying and corrupt behavior imo, redefined by whoever wanted to into whatever they wanted to justify. But as far as it being a social gathering and people of like mind meeting each other - sure. It was plenty of that. If I were them, and I'm not but if I were - and I'm not - I'd take a stepback and get the temperature of the membership, see what's going on and make room for something new and current to develop. Freshen it up. Allow for some spontaneous combustion. Set the stage, make the space, see what can be done. Inclusive, not exclusive. Everyone, at least all their tag bearing members current in their abs dues. And try doing something different than getting together in Ohio in August for God's Sake! which is part of the hottest muckiest periods in Ohio. In todays' world they will not want to play fast and loose or take the position that it's "their place" and they can do what they want. They can't. If they f it up, they'll be toast before you can say "liability". But hey - peace and love! Thanks for the memories Junior!

I did a bit of a deep dive into these young people and many of them are the sons and daughters of old Way people. 3rd generation lifers, not new people. Word Wolf makes sense with his comment. I just want a Wow Burger.

twi is still run by old fogeys who seized power so they could have the money and the power, and won't let go. They're trying to figure out how to interest young people, since without young people, twi's fading into obscurity. It's an old people ministry that hasn't appealed to young folks since the 1980s, and that means, as their population ages out and some drop dead of old age and others leave, they don't have any replacements to pay 10% or more of their income because they are suckers to keep the luxuries coming in for the people at the top. So, twi now has a handful of old farts in power trying to convince young people that twi is actually relevant and meaningful. How are they doing that? They're reviving what worked in the 1970s with the baby boomers, in their own foolish youth. It would be funny if it wasn't sad.

Of Bickle: “There are many misrepresentations of my words and actions in these communications including statements that are out of context, greatly exaggerated, or blatantly false,” Bickle said in his statement. He also said he thought his past misdeeds were “dealt with and under the blood of Jesus.” Sounds not unlike "anything done in the love of God is okay," including assaulting other men's wives. Hmph. John 11:35.

Good. F this guy and all charlatans like him. Allegations of abuse spanning DECADES from several credible women. Wow. So much sorrow for merely “inappropriate” behavior. Really, his “sin” did it. It’s the sin’s fault. BULLSHONTA!!

I find certain characteristics of different cults remind me of TWI. The whole Plaffy witnessing running classes to me reminds me of the JWs and their dogged determination to “witness” meaning putting a watchtower pub in someone's hands or referring someone to JW.org that seems pretty similar. The Mormons have all their positions as voluntary like bishops and Q70 or Q12 but demand the tithe out of followers. That to me is similar to the Way how they handle staffing and money. The Way Corps to me seems a lot like Scientology’s Sea Org. A billion year commitment to making the world “clear”. Using people paying them nothing shuffling them around doing the bidding of LRH or Miscavidge. So to me The Way seems like a blend of a number of cult tactics and characteristics. Like a cult souffle.

you havent missed out on anything. I reached out to them in my first 6 months out of TWI, somehow thinking something would be different. And to be clear, they are all different from each other as they have all taken what they liked from TWI and rebranded it with their own additions and spin. But at the end of the day its the same ole trap.