Twinky

Nothing wrong with "socialism" and in fact there is a lot right with that, and quite a lot wrong with being so "individual" that you forget your fellow human beings. Man was never designed to be alone, right? we need each other! But that need is one of inter-dependence not dependence. And it's certainly not achieved, not never ever, no, by bullying into submission, and by threats and sanctions that have no scriptural basis whatsoever. God loves us. Loves!!! And he loves it when we work together with Him and with each other, as fellow-laborers. And he expects us to be smart laborers, able to fulfill a task entrusted to us with minimal guidelines (that's why he gave us brains). He doesn't micro-manage us. Waddya know, not only do I not have to live life in 15 min increments, it doesn't even matter if I turn up to church 15 minutes late. I'm still greatly welcomed. The sky doesn't fall on my head. In fact, it doesn't even matter if I don't turn up at all. God still loves me and so do the people in the church. BTW Sky although I take issue with your second post (post no 3) I completely agree with your first post.

No such experiences, and nobody I know has, either, except a few who are decidedly flaky and possibly smoke/ingest/... other things. I don't believe the dead are alive. Yet. But they will be. In some form that is not yet clear. Just as birth is a change from one situation (for want of a better word) in life to another, so I believe that death is also a change from one situation to another. But not necessarily instantly.

WW, that's not quite what this particular thread is about. That topic has been discussed many times.

From the first book Shaz links to: Special offer: free snake oil with every book purchased!!

God bless you and have a wonderful day.

No thanks, Kermit.

I've seen that, OldSkool. What I want is the original article, which the "New" item purports to critique. I want to know what HWF says, not what someone says HWF says. In the same way that there has been a lot of misquoting (including by JohnJ) of WPV & TWI material, no doubt HWF may also be being misrepresented. "Keeds, I wish you could read it in the original!" I suppose I could go further, and say I want to read what VPW says...but frankly enough of his stuff/plagiarism has passed before my eyes. And if I had Rs10 there is probably a better use for it.

John, have you a link to the article you are quoting? It's nowhere obvious. HWF mentions in several places it is reprinting Dilemma. It costs 10 rupees. HWF also attacks the "Islamization" of Indians and everything else that doesn't fit with their viewpoint. The forum appears to have four regular contributors. Or maybe they are the guiding lights. Anyway, not a big player, just a stirrer.

If you want to say this, John, let's have it accurately. Hindu Writers' Forum is a lobby group that appears to be anti-everything and about as fundy as VPW himself. However, HWF itself publishes Dilemma. So that it can knock it down, presumably, as otherwise the book would not be available at all. I did find this link: Dead critic - a supposed letter to an unnamed recipient ("me" - but in a personal capacity, or as representing an organization? "Last Days Harvest Ministries"?) from a writer, Mr. Brahm Dutt Bharti, who passed away on 19.5.1997 (that's 15 years ago, so if this is what John is referring to, it's not really new news). John's initial post on this thread appears to be provocative and unsubstantiated - misinformation about misinformation about misinformation.

OldSkool - I think my "degree" was in Dishroom Studies. It was nice to have time in Study hall but really, what was "taught" at any kind of undergrad level would fit on a piece of toilet paper.

1. A bachelor's degree in some unspecified subject. 2. Another bachelor's degree from an unaccredited organization known to teach...nothing. (Well, people I know from earlier Corps seem to have had the odd useful subject - by the 90s there was nothing worthwhile. Dunno about the 80s or whenever he was there.) 3. Attendance at another organization in a subject that some would consider dubious - and at an organization whose licenses are only acknowledged in a small handful of states. Where did he do his doctorate? His doctor/medical studies? At the third organization - which "licences" practitioners but knows they aren't recognized much? Hmm. I'm filled with confidence. (Maybe I should go and get myself filled with red wine. It's really good for lowering cholesterol.) (True!!)

And where, Raf, is the button for "I burned the bloody things"? ...tapes. Books (I tore up and burned the "Red Thread" and a load of other books). Notes (and notes and notes...) In fact, there is still a box of notes that is this winter's firelighting material. Burned, because I didn't want them in paper recycling or in landfill, in case someone got hold of them, started reading and was gullible enough to want to find out more. I retain some non-TWI publications. And I have my journals. But they're "me" and I can look back and laugh (compassionately) at the sad sad person who wrote them.

Great news, OS. Wonderful that your son is doing well. And God bless (abundantly) the donor. What a wonderfully loving thing to do. There are some really kind, generous, loving people outside TWI. Some of them go to churches and live what they know. Others are just nice people who want to help. Whatever...I can't see anyone at TWI offering their own kidney. They'd just expect you to "build your believing" and condemn you if nothing happened.

Nah. Not dull gray. Black. As in black hole. Sucks everything in, lets nothing out.

:blink: :blink: :blink:

It is not "bitterness" to expose wrongdoing, hypocrisy, and false teaching. If it were, we'd be seeing a very "bitter" Jesus when he confronted false leaders. In fact, he even forgave those who were murdering him. But it didn't stop him exposing them for their vileness during his lifetime. We'd also see a very "bitter" Paul when he confronted false leaders, whether Jewish or otherwise. And there are heaps of warnings in the OT about who should be avoided. For us to learn from! To expose such falseness is to speak the truth - in love. But not to forgive - that does open the door to bitterness and corruption in one's own life.

Tobacco free - all my life. Slow suicide... Do it quick, if you're going to... I shared an office with smokers - for two periods of time - I always felt ill from what took me a while to realize was the secondhand smoke. Can't imagine how awful it must be for a "firsthand" smoker. If you don't give up "for yourself" - give up for your children, your grandchildren - your great grandchildren who you might not otherwise get to know... Kit, once again, so sorry for your loss.

Old Skool ... "Lifelines" is required reading now? And no doubt - when someone else uses the same words - a writer, actor, on TV - of course that person has pinched it from VPW's words of wisdom. Could never be the other way round, could it?

Hardly a "revolving" door, Sky. More like a one-way door - the Out door. Don't think there are many going In. Interesting, what did Jesus do? The "top leadership"? Looks like he healed all those who asked. Believers and unbelievers (Jews and non-Jews). What does "top leadership" in TWI do - when healing is required? "Be gone from me, I never knew you." Not just for Corps - for pretty much anybody. Why? Because the person needing healing "doesn't believe" enough. If you've been Corps for a while - generally TWI has become your whole life. You don't have many friends left. Your earthly family may despair about you and you have certainly offended them deeply. When TWI kicks you out, they are in effect ripping all of your life away. Actually, thinking just a bit more...they are ripping your life away - but they are ripping your false life away. The false life they implanted and pretended was Godly. Really they are doing you a big favor (if TWI saw it that way, they'd never do it again). You get to see them without their mask and see the evil of the place. It's very painful. But ultimately probably not as painful as the slow death of a thousand cuts that is all there is in TWI. And when you learn to see through Godly eyes, you can start to build a real life again.

The reason is because, from PFAL, TWI has worked hard to destroy critical thinking skills. There is a "party line" and all are required to follow it. To do otherwise is to listen to lies from the devil. We must be likeminded. To bring in a speaker who may speak something different, who may not toe the party line, who has some different view of God - would be to reawaken those long suppressed critical thinking skills. We might start "considering" what the guest speaker said. That would be listening to the lies of the devil. And it would be the slippery slope to thinking for ourselves. And to TWI losing control over individual believers. ...And losing control over the individuals' pay packets. (BTW Naten, there are lots of threads here about loss (and re-gaining) critical thinking skills. The fact that this is raised here so often is an indication of how much TWI worked to suppress that ability, to hear and consider another view.)

Wasn't there a thread about this same article, not very long ago?

Some of this money did go to support TWI in Zaire - no idea how much or for how long. Or who. And some was used for a "scholarship" for one of my fellow International Corps and paid for everything that the rest of us had to raise sponsorship for. Don't know about anything for any other years. The amount expended on the scholarship would be minimal, really, compared with the total amount coming in. As to supporting Zaireans in their famine state - lots of Biblical support for helping fellow believers during times of drought or famine - that is what the money is for!!!! Not for hoarding in the bank. Luke 12: 15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth . 16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying , The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully : 17 And he thought within himself, saying , What shall I do , because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? 18 And he said , This will I do : I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods ["We'll stash it all in investment accounts"]. 19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry . 20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? [compare Gen3:4 "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die."] 21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God [and God's people].

Abundant sharing ... "I just love to take abundant sharings. Not that we need the money, but they need the blessing. And the money doesn't hurt us to have so we can move it to others get blessed." If only ...! Others... would that be "others without exception," or "others with distinction"?

Yes, Chockfull. Our loyalty and "to whom we owe our very lives to" is God, our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ. And even if we had come to that through some very vibrant church, organization, preacher, brass polisher, whatever ... our loyalty should ALWAYS be towards God, our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ and NEVER with an organization. The organization is only a platform from which to reach out, together with others who are likeminded. But the platform itself (whether TWI, the RC church, the Methodist church, the local youth group) is unimportant. I'm not denigrating the work of any churches, some of which are excellent "platforms" and are very community minded and truly do the work of God. Which welcome people of all or no denomination and any background, rich or poor. Such "platforms" take care to give the glory to God...and mean it.

Well, why would God need it interpreting? I don't really know what function Interp could have unless in some way to "edify" the body of believers. But if SIT is essentially praise to God, it's in the nature of a personal communication between God and the individual - so why would it need interpreting? Where would be the benefit to the body of believers? which already knows how to praise God with the understanding? Interp is listed as one of the manifestations; therefore it must exist; therefore it must have a purpose. I doubt very much any of it is as the intermediate class sets out. Actually I doubt very much that anything taught about any of the other manifestations is as was taught in Intermed or Adv class.