anotherDan

working on my end of the discussion I was gonna try to get the graffiti off the walls.... someone painted "Wright sucks" there in a solemn font, but I think I'll just leave it there. To further define my original post, which seemed clear enough to me, and still does, here's my idea for a thread: Reading is good for learning. I'd like to propose a novel concept: read the article, and see if you can understand what the author is saying. Really. Then agree/disagree/discuss.

LOL. That is funny, Abi. I was going to post that in this thread this morning! You are a trip. Nice talking to you last night.

DWBH, thanks for sharing your story with us.

Wright is not long-winded. He may be "long," but there's not much wind in there. He knows where he's going before he starts, and lays the necessary groundwork so that when he makes his central point, it cannot be so easily dismissed by making assumptions that he did not. He covers his bases, it seems to me, not in a defensive mode, but because it's good rhetorical and didactic practice. He is a force to reckon with, and is one of the most reasonable and effective voices today, IMO, in the field of Christian and biblical apologetics, especially in opposition to atheists like Dawson, and postmodern thought. A recurring theme in his writings is the trauma the Reformation did to authentic Christianity. I want to respond to the posts that address the subject matter of the article, but I'm only home for lunch, and got to go swing the hammer again.

Blessings and cursings One of the commonest blessings today is "Have a nice day." One of the commonest curses includes our most censored word in the English language. It is a pronouncement of evil on the person cursed. There is a lot of cursing going on. Try noticing where they come up in posts.

Not everyone's cup of tea, I'm sure. N.T. Wright has, for me, brought possibilities to many of my former simplistic answers to certain theological questions. His books addressing the lay reader and non-scholar include Simply Christian, his modest version of C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, and The Last Word, subtitle: Beyond the Bible Wars to a New Understanding of the Authority of Scripture. To these and others, he adds both scholarly works, as well as even simpler, very short books. IIR, two of the titles are The Meal Jesus Left Us and The Prayer Jesus Left Us. There are many Internet resources presenting and discussing the theology of N.T. Wright, and the "new understanding of Paul" which he and others have been discussing for the last few decades. One good starting place is here. This article, One God, One Lord, One People is as good an introduction to Wright's writing as anything. I would welcome any comments from interested parties.

OMG doesn't bother me much, but when someone uses the name of Jesus blithely or as a swearword, like WG mentioned, that bothers me. I generally refrain from "correcting" or educating them. On the one hand, they mean "nothing" by it, but on the other hand, it is the very definition of blasphemy. Catholics, I think, started the somewhat less offensive, "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph," which often lacks the edgy "cursiness." It's often almost wistful, like the Jewish "oy vey."

WW: definitely

funny stuff, sirguess... a long list, too. Recognized a few, and myself as well! The pictures are great, too. dm... you'd have to scroll back... never mind!

what Bliss and ex10 said makes sense to me, and i think of Jesus' words on the cross (which Washington alluded to) it's quite plain that they were unrepentant at that time, so i would take exception to your question: That said, repentence for the wrongdoer is a very good thing, as is apology and reparation. God's judgment is up to Him, and I'm sure He will take into account whatever is right. My favorite "forgiveness" quote comes from Derek Prince, and it goes something like this: Last year, not far from here, a milkman killed a bunch of Amish kids at a school. He was going to rape the little girls first, but thankfully he didn't. I passed by the place today. It's absolutely inconceivable, but it happened. Where do you stick this stuff in your heart? There's nowhere for it but to give it to God. When Jesus said, "he that believes on me, the works that I do shall he do also..." I no longer think of the stuff I used to think about. I think of forgiving the unforgivable, of not turning his face from spitting, of his words "happy are ye..." in the sermon on the mount. That's the tough stuff. I hope that's considered and respectful enough.

there go the "oldies" taking over the thread again!

you're RIGHT. I missed that. "...away from here." never mind!

what day are we on? Where's the rest of the teaching? Come on, Abi! This is the basement!

Sorry, Sunesis, i should have acknowledged that you did make a good point. My point (I sumtimes dont rite to good) was that I was ready to move on to something other than Larry's attitude, though it's fine with me if others want to continue. It's a valid angle on the original post. An outstanding example, I would say. I was suggesting that OT's post may have been another angle from which we could discuss the original post. (i.e. triggers, mines) Don't know if that's what he intended, and I don't know if I should have posted the way I did! I'm all for discussion rather than debate. I agree "that's a good thing." And you included me as one who was discussing, not debating, right? So we are on the same page, there. Socks, can you help us out again? I simply haven't got the powerrrr, Captain! All I've gawt is an empty hole!

Sunesis, the way I saw it, Out There was making a simple statement independant of the Larry thing. I don't see even an inference much less a reference to the Larry issue in there. Sometimes there are multiple conversations going on in the same thread. Out There didn't voice an opinion on what "We've been talking about." It could be considered a new conversation, or an attempt at one. He made a mildly humorous inference to the "minefield" comment that Wrds made, and another picked up on.... "it should be on a banner above the entrance to this place." It's a fairly common theme in other threads.... "triggers" and such. If you're not done with the "nasty attitudes" thread of the thread, then say on, sister. Some may be ready to move on, and some may not have been interested in the first place. I'm just sayin' Let the rivers flow together for a minute. Maybe OT is addressing the original intent of the thread... i.e. those are "still blinded by VP." I'm sure you've seen this before. A thread gets sidetracked, and someone brings it back in deference to the original poster. Out There is no newbie, but his point of view, especially when voiced by a newbie, gets flack, no?

Out There, nice of you to drop in. I've noticed your other posts. Thanks for the perspective. Now, if you don't mind, while you walk on, I'll just go over here behind these sandbags, and don this gasmask.

Great posts, Dooj and dmiller. For what it's worth, dm, your manner comes across to me just as you described, "sincere, and without malice." And Dooj, your self-description also fit you to a T, from where I sit. There are times when I am not "myself," or at least not my "best self." Growing up, being "functional" and having the proper social skills to relate to others (including my own family) can be a difficult task at times. One would think, at "our" age, we'd have it down. For Dooj to get up in the morning and give me another shot is heartening. Thank you! I agree that Larry "sounded human" over in decaf, and I'm grateful there is such a place where the mines are cleared, somewhat. I appreciate the respect that people have shown for that "area." I understand Larry's comments cut you, dm. They cut me when they cut you, too. But Larry doesn't just "appear" human, he IS human. I didn't know what to do with Raf's "don't let the door hit you on the butt" comment immediately following Larry's goodbye post. A little dose of reality can be a very good thing. I prefer to err on the side of mercy rather than judgment, but that can "enable" a person to remain disfunctional. You "oldtimers" have seen the cycles. In my earliest days, Dooj's comments often helped me see a bigger picture than the immediate conflict, and to put that conflict in perspective. Lots of good folks around here. First person sentence: Dooj and dm, thank you.

that's great, bow Let us know how it goes. Could be the start of something very good!

bowtwi is having some trouble getting the embeds to work She wanted to share this one with y'all JT: smiling face

TB... I love your new time and energy re-distribution plan! I'm signing on the dotted line of my own plan, which is remarkably similar to yours. (In good protege form.) I do have commitments over in Decaf, and so do you, brother Thelonius Bone. (I'll bet your mom only called you that when you were doing something wrong.) I'm also cutting out a lot of "religious activities" such as church attendance, theological arguments / ruminations, etc. Real Life isn't so hard, but I've been making it hard with too much religion. I've got a decent overview of theology, over 30 years of studying the Bible pretty seriously, and yet I've come face to face with some serious gaps in my PRACTICE of "the ordinary truth." I think that's where pleasing God actually happens. For you it's books, family, movies, playing bass, and substantive discussions (as opposed to crapstorm tornado-chasing). For me it's fix the boat, work to build some kind of financial stability, maybe some books and guitar, cooking, and general fellowship with Christ, whether here at GS or amongst family and friends, or chance encounters. I'd really like to get in some saltwater fishing, too. To heck with movies... are there any good ones? The last I remember were Nell, and Terminator 2. Maybe I'm out of the loop. spend more time & energy doing the things I enjoy I loved the Blue Planet series by the BBC... not exactly a movie, but it was some time with the tube.

from dictionary.com: krys: your use of "inspire" is interesting.... you know, God being "at work within us, both to WILL and to do." This is apparently how we "work out" our wholeness. There's a parellel, I believe to obedience, and to lordship. The inspiration of God, the filling of this earthen vessel who is willing to receive and who responds accordingly is the "friendship" between predestination and free will that TBone noted (Spurgeon's word). Good stuff

OK, I know who you are! Puts a whole new spin on things. Do you know you helped write the sound tracks for a major portion of my life? Top two favorite songs I've retained from the old days: "True Way," and Lisa Tracy's "Treasure in an Earthen Vessel" I love you, man! Hope we can meet some time. I'll buy you a Bud Light or something. "We need to show.... show the world Jesus Christ." edit: Frog.... cute kid on the vid

Funny, Tonto, I just posted about the phone call to TB and you on the Fresh Air thread. My take is that Tonto and Abi disagree, and are both right. Sometimes the answer does not lie between two positions, but above it. Abi's empathy FOR Larry and Tonto's evaluation OF him are just one difference in the PsOV. Your differing gifts and the points you are on in your journeys are other differences. Larry, by the time you had over 75 posts, the #2 poster had about 25, I think. I don't know if you sensed, as Dot suggested, above that Tonto was venting about you personally -- that didn't occur to me until Dot brought it up. Maybe it struck a nerve, but the thread did become about you, and it remains there\. Now that you've withdrawn, you get the analysis of others. You get to see how you're seen. And of course, the image is only as good as the mirror. In another thread, I made note of your posting style, and offered to interview you so that you could make yourself known, which is available on the Introductions Forum (I think it's called), but few people seem to take advantage of that. (A pity, I say, but I didn't either.) If you're gone for good, I'm not happy about it at all. I wish you'd finish the interview, but of course I respect your feelings and your wishes. I put you in a tough position, there. I know how hard it is to be self-revealing, but I did it in Decaf, with a clear set of rules in the first post for the express purpose of getting to know LARRY. But as I'm experiencing on the TB and Dan show, it's a pretty tough assignment. I've given you the space to post as you were inspired, albeit with a friendly nudge now and again. I hope you'll be inspired again and continue. I value you and think you may be an important voice in the conversation here if you can find it within yourself to be self-revealing instead of just probing others to do so.