Rocky

I just obtained access to a Word document containing the following letter. It's almost quaint. Quite a few of the alleged signers have been around since before the first mass exodus when a handful of WC and clergy first publicly called out TWI for what they saw at the time as being "off the Word." How naïve can these supposed elders have been three decades ago and how freakin' naïve must they still be to not see that there never was a "research team" as they seem to define it. If these folks aren't willing to learn from the insight of those who have gone before them (i.e. Charlene Edge, Karl Kahler, Kristen Skedgell... and GSC's own Skyrider and others) they will likely be doomed to suffer the fate of Sisyphus. "In Greek mythology Sisyphus (/ˈsɪsᵻfəs/;[2]Greek: Σίσυφος, Sísuphos) was the king of Ephyra (now known as Corinth). He was punished for his self-aggrandizing craftiness and deceitfulness by being forced to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it come back to hit him, repeating this action for eternity. Through the classical influence on modern culture, tasks that are both laborious and futile are therefore described as Sisyphean (/ˌsɪsᵻˈfiːən/)." What this letter (below) proposes is indeed laborious and futile. ------------- March 2017 Dear beloved Way Corps ministers, God’s abundant blessings, mercy, and peace be unto you. As Way Corps ministers, we have been and continue to be deeply concerned with the direction our beloved ministry has taken. This is why we persist in sounding the alarm. We wholeheartedly desire revival and restoration for our ministry of Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship. The entire Way Corps household should realize the need to restore this ministry back to the heart and Biblical truths as initiated by our Founder, Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille. He earned respect many times over by teaching the greatness of God’s Word, leading from the front, and cultivating individual believer’s long suits. He did not ask others to do what he had not done many times himself. This respect cannot simply be transferred. Those succeeding in the same position must earn respect themselves. This involves leading from the front rather than pushing from behind. We remain firm in our requests to bring our ministry back to "It Is Written," so the Word of the Lord may have free course and be glorified, starting with: Lift the non-Biblical “no debt” policy that excludes classes and service to those in debt. Rather, continue to teach God’s will of living within our means, working heartily as unto the Lord, and sharing of our abundance. Eliminate the “absolute” power of the current self-appointed board. Replace it with a larger elected board with established term limits and input from the entire Way Corps household. Bring The Way Corps meetings back to their roots to include spiritually energized, in-depth teachings of God’s Word with an emphasis on scope and a word-by-word study of the scripture. Redesign Sunday Teaching Services with an energized service and teachers that motivate and inspire believing. Stream the teachings—we have the fiber optic cable already in place to do so. “Spiritual weakness and inability is caused by improper diet and neglect of the Word.” --VPW Rethink how Way Corps assignments and placements are handled. Post open positions. Way Corps assignments should be in conjunction with each Way Corps minister, ensuring these decisions really are “best for the individual” and then the ministry by having open discussions and transparent motives. Reestablish the Word living within a base of youth to lead us into the next generation, or the ministry will not survive. Reenergize their participation by respecting their needs for “Hot Bible,” musical alternatives, listening for and seeking their input, and honoring their desire for fellowship with one another. Reestablish a research team. This is vital to restore the foundation of our ministry to the integrity of the Word. Reach out to re-engage Way Corps ministers who have been dropped or have discontinued their Way Corps service due to their conscience based on the Word, family needs, health or other issues. We know this is not an exhaustive list, but only several of the basics. You will likely have other concerns you would like to see addressed. Our Lord Jesus Christ showed us how to best evaluate leadership by his simple statement: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” In Matthew 7:15-20, he warned as follows: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. The fruit of our current leadership for the past decade has become increasingly apparent. In the past 10 years we have lost over 150 Way Corps ministers. Combined with continuing small in-residence Corps classes, the overall Way Corps numbers are in a sharp decline. The number of new graduates who stand following completion of classes is dropping. Because qualified Advanced Class candidate numbers have dropped so low, there is no longer a need to do a class every year. There has been a steady decrease in the number of believers seeking employment at The Way International and there is a high turnover rate. Attendance at Sunday Teaching Services at The Way International Headquarters and at on-the-field phone hookups is consistently low. The Way International has a book value of all assets over $68 million, however believers often pay a facility fee to meet as a State or Branch, or they meet in only “budget” or “free” spaces. There are less and less full time ministers on the field and in many Regions only one full time couple in the entire Region. This inequality is non-Biblical and begs the question of how the abundant sharing is utilized. There is no transparency. (II Corinthians 8:14) There is continued mistreatment of long-standing, faithful believers and leadership. Without dialogue and nothing resembling I Timothy 5:19-21, numerous ministers—including seasoned Officers, Region coordinators, State coordinators, Branch coordinators, and others on Headquarters Staff—have been abruptly removed, mishandled, and in several cases barred from fellowship. This is inexcusable. The Board of Directors have refused to dialogue regarding the Biblical confrontation for which they were rebuked on August 12, 2016. The attached letters were sent asking for representatives to meet with the Board of Directors and later to attend the Region coordinator’s meetings so concerns could be effectually represented. The only option given was meeting with one couple at a time, not in a suggested Acts 15-type leadership meeting. The Board of Directors continue to move ahead unrepentant. These are factual indications of their fruit. Additional questions need to be asked: Do we have the same laughter, joy, and wholehearted goodwill and love for one another that we once knew and loved in our beloved ministry? Why have we not had any nationwide Way Corps face-to-face meetings where we can fully share and learn from one another in an open manner? Why is the labor for and loyalty to a few select individuals exalted above commitment and devotion to our heavenly Father? These things have thwarted the purposes of God. The future of our ministry is in peril. This information is intended as a call to action. We have not undertaken this mission lightly, but rather with prayer and a multitude of counselors working together. We recognize our first letter was “loud” in that it addressed issues openly. It is now essential to “yell long” as the Way Corps continue to arise, allowing God to bare His mighty arm. It is time to boldly speak up; we stand approved before God, not men. We will no longer cover for the Board of Directors. Your one-accord voice is needed. As stated in Acts 4:20, after being commanded by the chief priests and elders not to speak at all, nor teach in the name of Jesus, they simply replied, “We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.” They went to their “own company” and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them, Acts 4:23. As a result, in verse 24, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord. Boldness to speak the Word, signs and wonders, and a multitude of believers with one heart and soul was the fruit. Great grace was upon them all. Many of us have informed our “own company” of our Biblical confrontation and why it was done. We have encouraged the believers to pray for our ministry and live the Word. The results have been a greater commitment to “It is Written,” relief that their concerns are being addressed, and a thankfulness that the Word of God is the foundation of our lives. It has been an answer of peace. We encourage you to do the same as God works in your heart. It must be the Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word. The numbers that support a change at the Board of Director level are consistently growing. You can contact us at: revivalandrestoration@outlook.com and/or contact us personally with any questions or comments. Lovingly in Christ, Ray and Sandy Beets, Ted and Ramona Bidon, Paul and Connie Brooks, Brett and Dale Byers, Kevin and Melody Carter, Todd and Michelle Cencich, Michael and Cindy Fort, Gary and Patricia Frederick, Scott and Kristina Froelich, Matthew and Laurie Harmon, Ed and Jacque Horney, Mark and Terri Ladwig, Aaron and Kelly Lapp, Darrell La Salle, Rhett Major, Bob and Dottie Moynihan, Rich and Vera O’Neal, Buddy and Donna Pressler, Stephen and Patty Fay Roberts, David and Cecilia Rowe, Jon and Lisa Ryan, Michael and Billi-Jo Sanders, Phil and Sue Shelton, Rick and Marian Schilling, Jeffrey and Chrissy Skeltis, Gene and Sherry Slavit, Sean and Mary Strickland, Walter and Christina Uyehara…plus dozens more

This grand effort by (likely) sincere believers evokes Sisyphus. In Greek mythology Sisyphus (/ˈsɪsᵻfəs/;[2]Greek: Σίσυφος, Sísuphos) was the king of Ephyra (now known as Corinth). He was punished for his self-aggrandizing craftiness and deceitfulness by being forced to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it come back to hit him, repeating this action for eternity. Through the classical influence on modern culture, tasks that are both laborious and futile are therefore described as Sisyphean.

Got a link to that? Inquiring minds want to know.

My hunch is that they don't care how inept they look... perhaps because the lion's share of their revenue comes from overseas outreach. How many people outside the US either don't bother to search the interwebs for insight on TWI or don't have online access in the first place?

Wow... that is tragic. Before anyone else starts analyzing the situation, I recommend you help your son get a VERY good lawyer. Solve the legal problems with your d-i-l moving grandson out of state without your son's approval before you try to figure out how to change her mind about TWI. Btw, I'm a grandparent also, so please rest assured that I empathize with you completely.

Alternatively,

We are the sum and substance of our experience, eh? This might seem like something of a tangent on the subject of this thread, but I think it goes directly to the heart of it. Last night I finished reading (first time through anyway) Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind. The book is... well, amazing. (this video is less than four minutes) But what I found particularly salient in the book, from the standpoint of our common cult history, is a section (pg 250 in the hardback edition) called Ignoramus. "Humans have sought to understand the universe at least since the Cognitive Revolution. Our ancestors put a great deal of time and effort into trying to discover the rules that govern the natural world. But modern science differs from all previous traditions of knowledge in three critical ways: a. The willingness to admit ignorance. Modern science is based on the Latin injunction ignoramus -- 'we do not know'. It assumes that we don't know everything. Even more critically, it accepts that the things that we think we know could be proven wrong as we gain more knowledge. No concept, idea or theory is sacred and beyond challenge... The Scientific Revolution has not been a revolution of knowledge. It has been above all a revolution of ignorance." To me, the significance of that concept cannot be overstated. What was the critical essence of The Way International, Victor Paul Wierwille and Loy Craig Martindale? Well, beside the fact that the expression "The Way" was ostensibly invoked in the name of the cult because Jesus said he was the way, the truth and the life, Jesus wasn't the focal point of the cult, nor was Jesus' Father. The focal point and the fulcrum on which the entire "movement" turned was Wierwille's (outrageous and fictional) claim that God made Wierwille the keeper of God's truth (i.e. the snowstorm claim). We (those of us who were around when Wierwille and Martindale were in power, at least) also know that there was no humility in veepee's claim to be the (to borrow a phrase from HULU's series "The Path") keeper of the light. Those who fell into TWI subsequent to Wierwille/Martindale have the tremendous resource of Charlene's memoir, Undertow. Charlene eloquently exposed Wierwille's hubris and how it played out in his "research department." The Way International is the anti-thesis of how to actually discover truth. And the social structure Wierwille established to glorify himself demonstrates the dysfunction of that hubris. And Skyrider, I concur emphatically with you regarding those who have set up copycat ministries.

To be expected. Still tragic.

Are you sure that tree isn't in a dictionary?

A couple more books to contribute to the discussion of those points: Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind I'm currently reading this overview of world/human history and find it exquisitely fascinating. Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus: A Devout Muslim Encounters Christianity from Amazon, " Providing an intimate window into a loving Muslim home, Qureshi shares how he developed a passion for Islam before discovering, almost against his will, evidence that Jesus rose from the dead and claimed to be God. Unable to deny the arguments but not wanting to deny his family, Qureshi struggled with an inner turmoil that will challenge Christians, Muslims, and all those who are interested in the world’s greatest religions." I just learned about Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus today and find the claim about evidence that Jesus rose from the dead to be intriguing... not sure I believe the claim (that what he found is actually evidence), however.

Timing is everything.

Very nicely put. btw, Steve, glad you're healing up.

Raf, I would recommend that you avoid taking Mr Confused's bait.

That comment again demonstrates lack of understanding of the concept of "I statements." I refer you back to me post about 15 minutes ago. I provided a link to reference material. Do you want to continue to be confused?

Allow me... Mr Confused may or may not be intentionally confused on that point... but he demonstrates (either willful or incidental) lack of understanding of "I statements." "It is not selfish to use the word "I." It does not mean that you only care about yourself. Rather, "I" statements are direct, rational, objective and honest. "I" statements show that you are taking responsibility for how you feel and are not blaming someone else for your feelings. "I" statements are factual and non-judgmental.

Where in that post do you see anything that suggests Raf is trying to tell you what to believe or to do?

Reincarnation of Professor Irwin Corey?

A search on FB revealed two people asking (in FB groups related to TWI) for contact information on Rico and Robin in Florida and for people to pray for them. The two posts were dated March 12 and 15 respectively. The March 12 post got comments indicating someone got contact info privately. The March 15 post got 40+ comments, most just saying they are praying for Rico's family and/or TWI. One or more alluded to the fact that the Mag family had left.

Just over two years ago (Feb 28, - March 2, 2015), I witnessed some big time arguing -- my first time sitting in on oral arguments at the Supreme Court in Washington. It was a thrill. On Feb 28, I toured the Newseum. The relevant point for this thread is that while there, I purchased Jay Heinrichs' book, "Thank You for Arguing." I recommend it to readers and participants of this discussion on atheism. The author's collaborators started a website where resources and space for practicing/honing one's rhetorical (argument) skills. arguelab.com. The available resources for readers, writers and speakers to make sound, valid arguments are vast. The help the ones who wish to clearly express themselves to do so with decreasing frustration. And they can substantially reduce tension in discussions. Now, back to your regularly scheduled discussion of Atheist FAQ. And may all participants grow in their knowledge and personal communication skills.

May I suggest that some participants in this thread (esp. TLC) could benefit tremendously from this MOOC on the subject of understanding arguments. Think Again: How to Reason and Argue Reasoning is important. This series of four short courses will teach you how to do it well. You will learn simple but vital rules to follow in thinking about any topic at all and common and tempting mistakes to avoid in reasoning. We will discuss how to identify, analyze, and evaluate arguments by other people (including politicians, used car salesmen, and teachers) and how to construct arguments of your own in order to help you decide what to believe or what to do. These skills will be useful in dealing with whatever matters most to you. [...] Course 1 - Think Again I: How to Understand Arguments Course 2 - Think Again II: How to Reason Deductively Course 3 - Think Again III: How to Reason Inductively Course 4 - Think Again IV: How to Avoid Fallacies Coursera doesn't charge for the courses unless you want an official certificate that you can use for job seeking.

Word!

Hopefully (and if the town has had the services of a credible historian) the town would already have some evidence to back up the claim that Don Rodrigo founded it, when he founded it, and who he was anyway. If that's that case, then wouldn't the person attempting to refute the professed history of the town have the burden of proof to reasonably challenge the previously accepted history of the town? I'm not really challenging your example, just suggesting that the town's burden should already have been established and fulfilled.

Wow! This may or may not be off topic, but Yertle DOES exist. Fictional stories and the characters in them exist. They may not be tangible physical entities, but they exist. The biblical stories in Genesis exist. But whether or not they represent historical fact is, for the most part, irrelevant. They represent the Judeo-Christian creation story, or myth. Myth, as Raf (hopefully) knows, may or may not be true fact. "A creation myth (also called a cosmogonic myth) is a symbolic narrative of how the world began and how people first came to inhabit it.[2][3] While in popular usage the term myth often refers to false or fanciful stories, formally, it does not imply falsehood. Cultures generally regard their creation myths as true.[4][5] In the society in which it is told, a creation myth is usually regarded as conveying profound truths, metaphorically, symbolically and sometimes in a historical or literal sense.[6][7] They are commonly, although not always, considered cosmogonical myths – that is, they describe the ordering of the cosmos from a state of chaos or amorphousness." Btw, Dr. Suess's published works aren't nonsense. Many of them are stories which, like Bolshevik indicated, have purpose. Now, to address the issue of whether or not one actually can prove or disprove the existence of the Christian God... that's above my pay grade. I did follow and do appreciate points that Raf made about a Deist god. However, despite my aversion to reducing questions relating to the existence God to the severely limiting confines of human rhetoric, I thought TLC's comments surrounding Romans 8 to be inherently absurd.

Great illustration. I would suggest that this discussion goes along well with a thread where Sherlock Holmes was brought up (by me) to expand on related issues with critical analysis (thinking).