Rocky

Every single one of the comments on this thread are tremendous with insight. I only wish I had seen those red flags. Not that I would have been any more capable than anyone else to do anything about it. The only serious thought along those lines I remember having was at the ROA or corpse week the first year 9th corps was in res. I remember thinking it would be nice to have a life where I could make the decisions on the direction I would choose to go. Of course, with all the indoctrination about being a doulos, that ended up being just a fleeting thought. I was still in my early 20s then and didn't have the life experience or insight to identify the list of red flags skyrider named. Even though in my late 50s, those all seem incredibly obvious. Another point about this thread, it doesn't feel like complaining. Rather, it's genuine reflection on what we went through. Don't get me wrong. If someone wants or needs to express deep feelings about their experiences, I'm all for it. Bravo to each of you.

I believe there is something to that explanation. The only thing I am certain about in this discussion is that none of us will be able to do anything other than say what we believe we did, what we believe took place, or what we do not believe. Can there be any tangible, scientific proof to any of these notions or ideas? I don't think so. But if anyone can prove me wrong, well, I'd be interested in hearing how that could be done.

Just so no one misinterprets my intent, it is just to throw my two cents worth into the discussion. While there clearly is NO new thing under the sun, there are new things to each of us from time to time. Raf's contribution, to start this thread, was a new way for me to look at the situation. For me to describe, with any degree of confidence that I would be truthfully analyzing my experience and actions during my time involved with TWI. (I did not continue the practices of sit, tongues with interpretation and prophecy long after splitting off into loosely affiliated home groups. Eventually even those grew tedious and repetitive and boring, hence non-productive.. I encountered pentecostal groups prior to twi that tried to lead me into sit, but didn't succeed. Ultimately, I think I tried not to immitate anyone. There may have been some inspiration. but it could also belargely made up. My bottom line is that I didn't know I was inspired ir making it up.

The factors that may have been an influence for longevity generally include nutrition, exercise, and rest. In terms of nutrition, one would have to study what was available for them to eat. How much animal derived food did they have and how much processing did they subject it to? They probably weren't putting a whole laboratory worth of chemicals in their food. They may have had a wide range of herbs and grains and fruit. Because they had no where near the amount of population then that we have now, they didn't need to have elaborate factory farms that mass produce poultry, shove animals in overcrowded barns where they ended up hip deep in feces. And most people had to actually do hard work to make a living. That's why I think they may have lived longer in the earlier days of humanity. Proximity of larger populations and raising and processing animals for food all had to be handled carefully to prevent food borne illness. Since they may not have had any kind of sophisticated medical practices back in their day. I might be rambling...

Where have you been hangin' out to get that impression?

My hunch about the topic of this thread: sense of belonging. Feeling as though one belongs to a team that is committed to a higher purpose or goal is a powerful motivator. That's why they use expressions suggesting those who have remained are part of some special "remnant."

Partially off topic, partially on topic. This I suppose, is a tangent. How many of you (and by extension, them) read Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach in high school or early adulthood? We all face fears, more so when faced with challenges to our livelihood and security. But if we live our lives as always reaching for a higher purpose, some door eventually opens through which we can walk and build and grow and have greater impact toward a higher purpose. I think LindaZ painted a fair picture of what many may face. Do they have fears about what if situations? Or do they have something toward which they can stretch out and become? Or be like the bird who learns to fly and in doing soars over the landscape and can see opportunity from a higher perspective? For me, it's genuine involvement in polical campaigns and races, issues and candidates. Develop messages and messaging that inspire positive political action. But it could be anything worthwhile. Establish a manufacturing business for items of which you've had a passion for years. The possibilities are endless. <3

Rumination -- chewing it over and over. Reflection -- a thought, idea or opinion formed as a result of meditation. We had a LOT of experiences in TWI. Some of those experiences repeated over and over and over and over in similar if not nearly identical ways. When we first went through those experiences, most of us as young adults perhaps (I was 19 when I first got involved with TWI) we interpreted those experiences pretty much as we were told or according to expectations we had somehow developed. Eventually, we were no longer just kids. Nagging dissatisfaction, coupled with learning from sources outside of the subculture into which we had voluntarily assimilated may have caused us to begin questioning the original interpretations and expectations. Some of us then post to Greasespot as a way of processing and reprocessing the replays of those experiences. Pardon my rambling. Just thinking about how posting to greasespot and preceeding forums helped me reprocess the twelve years I was in TWI. And subject to that reprocessing and re-imagining what it all really meant, I was able to assert independence from that subculture. Okay, that's all I have for now... Thanks for listening. :)

I probably wasn't clear that People of the Lie and Road Less Traveled are two separate books. Indeed, I agree mindfulness and reflection are helpful. :)

That he can't see any of it in himself doesn't make it any less poignant and applicable. It's extremely difficult for any of us to see stuff like that in ourselves. That's the whole purpose of the psychological defense mechanism we know as denial, isn't it? It's been several years since I've read much about this subject, but among the authors that address it are M. Scott Peck (in his books like The Road Less Traveled and People of the Lie) and Daniel Goleman (Emotional Intelligence). Self-awareness is often very difficult and raising awareness of areas of our (emotional and psychological) self that need to be healed is hard work. It's often a lot easier to see it in others.

What you have described as your experience -- that was objectionable to you -- is not socialism, but fascism. You're not mad about what you experienced while involved in twi? Really? Do you even read what you write at GSC? By the way, socialism is NOT communism. Use the word "commune" all you want, but you're still describing something that does not fit with the word (socialism) you want to label it. Socialism has been in practice in the USA since before the Declaration of Independence. There is probably no other word more misunderstood in American civics.

That was my impression also. I think it's dramatically OFF POINT/OFF THE MARK (sorry for raising my voice just for a second) to equate TWI with Socialism. There is a dramatic range of variation in what amounts to socialism in practice. Democratic socialism, where the voice of the people to say what the government is does and doesn't do is FAR from what any of us experienced in TWI. On the other hand, despotism comes in a variety of governmental forms from communism to fascism to capitalist oligarchy and plutocracy. So, I would encourage you, Skyrider, to figure out what it is you are really mad about and stick to working through those issues. If you're mad about socialism, fine. But you seem to be mixing up issues. Rugged individualism really means that in society we applaud losing. We condemn those who must not be believing correctly. Does that sound at all familiar?

"""☆¸.•°*”˜˜”*°•.¸☆ ★ ☆¸.•°*”˜˜”*°•.¸☆ ╔╗╔╦══╦═╦═╦╗╔╗ ★ ★ ★ ★☆☆★ ║╚╝║══║═║═║╚╝║ ☆¸.•°*”˜˜”*°•.¸☆ ║╔╗║╔╗║╔╣╔╩╗╔╝ ★ B I R T H D A Y ☆ ╚╝╚╩╝╚╩╝╚╝═╚╝ ☆★☆★☆ ★☆☆ Excie! Hugs and warm fuzzies and fireworks. We're all wacky! :)

Some wonderful insight. Twi is not the only place people get sidetracked from the life they ultimately want to build. We're wiser for the experience regardless of regrets we might have about being hoodwinked. It is a fact that young adults don't often have much of an idea of what they want to make of their life. Experience, and hard times build patience and wisdom. On balance, can you move forward in the direction you want to go in life? If so, that's a lot to be thankful for. :)

I'm keeping cool (as long as the electricity and a/c continues to work)! :) Hope you're well, Excie.

Did you notice that they registered the trademark, S.O.W.E.R.S.? and they also use W.O.W. Ambassadors with the TM to show they claim it as a trademark but that it is not registered? Trademarks

Actually, restored, that could be a wonderful vehicle... but it would take a lot of elbow grease and other things to get it fixed up. :)

Isn't that special?

Good grief. This guy's office is a mere three miles from my home. He looks (from a very cursory scan of the text on his website) a quack. The location, however, in downtown Scottsdale, can lead one to figure he preys on (rather than prays for) affluent individuals with more money than brains. And I thought the Way College only conferred associates degrees.

The sooner the better. My 79 year old mother smoked for a long time but quit a long time ago. She has COPD and will for the rest of her days. I thank God she quit before emphysema or lung cancer. But my brother wasn't so lucky. Heart disease got him at 36 and he was a heavy smoker since early in adolescence.

I don't know about Evan, but alfakat is a regular on facebook under his real name. btw, along with the conspiracy theory, paranoia stuff, don't forget DWA -- Dealing w/adversary... that definitely fostered paranoia...

Perhaps you're thinking of Michael Rood. Seventh Way Corps... quite the Rabbi these days.

My take on the clip is different than whoever posted (and titled) the clip. He was mocking that religion did not save the people and/or their homes or communities. He closed indicating it was sad the event had happened to the people. Now, as to use of the expression, what might be the talker's connection to events wherein he had heard the phrase used? Are we to assume no one prior to Loy C Martindale ever used the phrase, the terminology, the expression? Where might Loy have heard it? Whose path did Loy cross or whose did Mike Malloy. Or could there have been degrees of separation (or of Kevin Bacon)? Intriguing reflections nevertheless. :)

Well... I have it on good authority that it's not limited to married people...

Personal and emotional boundaries ARE common sense -- for those who have enough emotional and social maturity to recognize and consider (be considerate of) the needs of anyone other than him or her self.