Rocky

Whatever. write what you want to write. The trick will be taking it to market.. Find a literary agent, a publishing house and an editor. You don't have to sell me, you have to sell them. But candid feedback from a good editor can often be hard to swallow. See what comes together and makes sense. When I get into working on my book, not about TWI, btw, I'm hoping to get Vickie F. A. who has used the handle NotinKansasanymore here on facebook as a preliminary editor. And for those of you who have not yet voted, VOTE today! :)

Dude, you are STILL projecting your response, feelings and analysis of your experience in twi onto a system that you only know because you have read or heard what others say about it. Microcosm, smicrocosm... your editorial writing about politics is NOT your story until or unless you are involved in it. And frankly, your interpretation of the role of the federal government is limited in scope, even if you factor in family experience in farming. The fact of the matter is that the Obama administration is not at all responsible for the take over of American government by corporate interests. That is tied into an event and manifesto that was published in 1971 and has been used as a blueprint for encroaching plutocracy ever since. Now, I'd hate to see this thread get shut down because the discussion got too much into politics. My point is exclusively to point out what aspect of the things you've been posting are YOUR story and what is something else.

My thought on that would be such that if YOU have been involved in some political/public service situation, at any level, then it's YOUR story and you have every right to tell it in your book. If it's you pontificating on what you think other people are doing wrong, but you haven't been involved in any aspect of it, then how is it YOUR story? That's what I mean by compartmentalizing. Of course, you have a right to your own opinions on politics, government and public policy. And if you find yourself an audience who values your insight on those subjects, THEN it's plenty reasonable to use your experiences in TWI to illustrate whatever point you try to make. But it's completely different to project your displeasure with an authoritarian religious subculture on people and processes you only read about in the news.

I think that conscious self-awareness and awareness of the subculture issues in TWI, for so long, is what gives/gave you an important story to tell (book to write). I also suspect that at times, it may be difficult to compartmentalize your story such that you keep from blurring the lines between one's (yours in particular) spiritual journey/path and political systems. At some point, you may find more clarity regarding how those areas of life and society differ and how they overlap. Perhaps... for what it's worth (probably not more than two cents).

Dear friend J Fred Wilson's birthday would have been today. He was a good guy. I miss him. And for what it's worth, and please, I just mention it for historical reference... feel free to "celebrate" however you'd like but (please) let's not get on each other's cases on GSC about it, but today IS Loy C Martindale's birthday.

I knew you meant it. And I meant it too... except that I was most definitely using a euphemism when I said "unpleasant." I had (and have) no doubt that he was exceedingly mean and nasty. Clearly, Martindale didn't have the presence of mind -- unlike King David when Nathan confronted him -- to recognize the graceful guidance that you had offered him. We live and learn. And thankfully, we're still alive and kicking. :)

Good for you for writing the letter to him despite him not having his ears and eyes open to what you had, maybe right from the heart of God for him. A lot of things that happened exposed how unprepared Loy was to lead anyone in the ways of the Lord. I suspect your letter was among them. Instead, he was marking his territory, spraying his urine indescriminately, figuratively speaking, in hopes of establishing himself as THE alpha male... known in that organization as the MOGFOT. It's unfortunate that you were rewarded with unpleasant feedback.

Poignant, but not necessarily humorous. Perhaps you need another slice of baloney in your shoes... ;)

Mike Tracy? He was in the 7th WC. You must be thinking of someone else.

Write about ALL of those things. When you get it to what looks like a reasonable stopping place, you then look back and decide what goes in the final manuscript.

How ghastly AWFUL... I am SOOO glad I got out when I did. It was so much easier to build a life at age 31 than later. Of course, I've changed careers a couple of times since, but... anyway, Sky... I hope you write that book.

I bet he even convinced himself they were true, however. Isn't that what narcissists do?

What exactly does "up for parole" mean? Is he scheduled for release or for a hearing before the parole board for them to consider whether they should release him?

Indeed, TWI became, in practice, what Wierwille demonstrated in practice. There was a time or two when his wrath was directed at me. SOOO many years ago. Thankfully, many years ago.

Are they still doing that ning site? Btw, back in 1986, one of the first things I figured out was how twi had accountability bass-ackward. In Acts and in Paul's epistles, accountability of the ministers to those they SERVED (not lorded over) is paramount. Yet, twi had us going in reverse on that concept.

Never forget what Yogi Berra said: "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Bottom line, as I see it, is the same as your bottom line on this. It all presupposes... Frankly, however, I disagree on whether Wierwille led by example. TWI became what he lived as that example, a corrupt ministry that used people for personal gain and sexual gratification.

I'd say my biggest AMEN to what LindaZ wrote. But, of course, Chockfull and Skyrider also had tremendous insight. To Skyrider and the thread he linked to, on Wierwille's rants, I'd say WOW. By the way, Skyrider -- dude, WRITE your book. You really have something that needs to be told. Of course, I would say AMEN to what everyone else posted in their comments too.

I don't go to any church any more. No bible study. In the mid-1990s, I attended a community church for a couple of years. Don't feel a need to be involved in any of it any more. I don't knock people who do attend... I guess each has to work out their own salvation, or something like that. But when, because of current affairs (news reporting) or talking to people in the course of my life, I hear or read or think about things people believe, many times the Catholic Church stuff seems pretty weird. Of course, so does a lot of other things people do because of religion.

Yep. No argument from me on any of that.

Perhaps you meant to say, "I ASSUME" that Robert Schuller's Chrystal Cathedral has security. But I would ask whether you exercised any level of diligence to verify whether or to what extent your assumption had any validity. You could always call them and ask. Chrystal Cathedral

Not difficult to imagine at all. I remember in the later 1980s, after having made the break from TWI, but still being interested in fellowshipping with the people who left at the same time -- but before offshoots had really developed into any kind of semi-sophisticated system. At that time, I vividly recall imagining that twi would become a legalistic organization. That's the word I remember using -- legalistic. But I thought it would take longer to get there. Of course, I had not, by then, really come to grips with how outrageously mental Martindale was. So, I missed the time frame and didn't really put my imagination into developing the details, but 25 years ago, I saw it heading in that direction. And there is no question that your description of the social isolation is very much on the mark.

Actually, it looks like you are already working on the book whether you know it or not. You have a rough outline already set forth. You've been writing early drafts of various aspects of it on GSC for some time. You might be surprised how natural it comes out from here. When I first started writing (mid 1990s, essays/op-ed columns mainly), I had to sit down to the keyboard and type or else it would spill out all over the floor in front of me... That's how I described it to people when they asked me how I got started. I've not yet published a book, but I have a first draft of the manuscript already written. It chronicles the independent redistricting process in Arizona from December 2010 through adoption of the maps that are in use for the current election cycle. Americans throughout the country will see independent redistricting be adopted by citizen initiative in many states before the next redistricting cycle begins in 2021. Not that I will have anything to do with it other than to have described what took place in Arizona this time. I can say without equivocation that the practice I had writing about my 12 year experience in TWI, (the writing beginning in the Fall of 1997 or so when I found Trancenet/Trancechat) was invaluable to me. It doesn't even matter if anyone ever read what I wrote. It did a lot for me. The insight I gained reflecting on the subtleties of the subculture/indoctrination/social interaction (and some of the same or similar things you mentioned in your list) helped me develop insight on interactions in political environments and situations. So, my encouragement to you is -- WRITE. Write YOUR story. It's a book that needs to be written. You will be better for it. And as the proverb (Prov 18:16) says, A man's gift makes room for him. Those who need to know your story will find it.

Indeed, that indoctrination was powerful. I chuckle (only mildly) reading your description of the encounter in 1971 and your stubbornness. That WAS 41 years ago. I didn't learn anything about self-awareness, introspection and self-reflection until I was in my mid-30s. We were, most certainly just kids. Whatever led us to TWI certainly isn't as important as that we can reflect and re-evaluate our experience now. Frankly, I also smile warmly at reading that description which to me is evidence that you've done a wonderful job at reflection and putting more of the pieces of the puzzle together now. Same for Skyrider's description of life on the wheat farm. My experience, on the other hand, was a more or less typical big city experience in a single parent family most of the time. My experiences were focused on academics and a couple of extra-curricular activities. Clarinet lessons in 4th grade; choir all four years of high school, drama club with minor forays into JV wrestling and baseball. Those experiences didn't give me the insight you got, Skyrider, but gave me a foundation upon which to understand life once I was exposed to it. And even some of the way corps in residence experience was beneficial, despite being less than optimal in how it was conducted. Anyway, we are the sum total of our education and experiences up until today. I'm also pretty thankful for greasespot and its predecessor forums for having given me a platform to develop my writing skills by writing about the 12 years I spent involved with TWI. I have a book or two that are waiting to be written, though not likely about TWI.

I don't read the bible much, but when I do, I prefer the New International Version.