Rocky

March Forth! The ONLY day of the year which is also a command! :)

What you did by starting this thread, Sky... is to point out specific cases of where megalomaniacs have used "equality" as a ploy to centralize authority and then misuse that authority. You used lessons of history in political situations to define the early development process of the religious subculture (cult) with which we are familiar. My question to you had been intended to get you to think about whether the problem was the actual issue of equality or something other than that. The politics forum was put to sleep at greasespot last year. It is not my intent to revive it. Nevertheless, you answered the question and have your viewpoint. It is not my intent to engage you in discussion on that viewpoint. Rather, I recommend you consider whether or not the actual problem you identified has as its underlying issue whether the problem is humanity's desire for an egalitarian society or whether the problem is the megalomaniac who exploits that aspect of humanity to establish a culture/society that serves himself and his elite (oligarchy). The instances you cited for comparison purposes are not nearly the only times when equality and the need/desire for it have played a defining role in the establishment of a new nation. You did NOT cite American (revolutionary and pre-revolutionary) history. We hold THESE truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are... etc. The history of our country since that time has been a vivid drama revolving around tensions between the haves and the have nots. The actual bottom line is that citing the two examples as you did can shed light on Wierwille and twi. But those two examples are woefully inadequate in proving that there is anything inherently wrong or evil with the concept of egalitarianism.

Depression sucks, big time. Compassion goes a long way. Just an understanding ear, a handshake or a(n unselfish) hug. I know, I've been there. Stress also contributes dramatically to depression. A narcissistic cult is unlikely to provide, as so many have said in their own words (telling their own story) to provide the support and does indeed compound the stress. And Excie, no need to apologize to me for anything you've said here. :)

So, Sky, are you saying equality is not a worthy ideal?

Why was he turned away from twi hq?

The information on audio and video tapes is coded by way of magnetic processes. A large magnet can destroy the message on the tapes.

Holy crap!

Subtlety indeed. VERY insightful thread. THIS is the essence of twi being a cult. And yet, how long did it take any of us to figure it out... at least enough to decide it was not what we were going to do with the rest of our lives. For me, it took 12 years. And it's been 25 or so years SINCE. Yet, it remains a major aspect of life between my ears... Young adults are so vulnerable...

Thankfully, the naivete eventually faded for many of us.

What'd did he do with Emogene?

In the comfort of your own home... well, at least not having to go out in the snow and ice... I bought one of these, got it set up on Sunday, using it every day so far. Clearly getting a workout. 30 minutes today and heart rate and respiration in good exercise range for extended aerobic workout. VERY comfortable to ride. Easy to assemble (with two people). Gold's Gym Power 390 recumbent exercise bike.

This might also be picky, but the balance sheet referred to is -- on file with the state of Arizona's Corporation Commission -- not "from the state of Arizona. To my understanding, it was not an audited statement, just something that a couple of the corporate officers signed, possibly under (threat of) penalty of perjury. Nobody checks those, for the most part.

I'm not remembering Obama having claimed any call from God to be president. My comment was intended to show a couple of people who have laid claim to said calling when it appears they are just a good bit full of themselves.

Yeah, and God called W to be president... and now he's calling Michelle O'Bachman and Rick Santorum to be president.

I listened to about seven or eight minutes. It felt to me like there was a very serious narcissistic overtone. In my life these days, I write and a think in terms of what will make sense to my readers or listeners. I may describe (I DO describe) things I've observed and what it means to the people I am writing or speaking to. But Victor was always speaking about what he was doing. The implied meaning being that he was doing the will of God. The subtext was adoration of the MOG rather than empowerment of his listeners.

Agree. I also don't think there is a wrong way to leave either. As long as it is on your own terms.

On Sunday, I met Another Dan (facebook friend Dan Haas) face to face for the first time. We've chatted many times online. It was a joy to get to see each other's face. I also met a few more former followers of twi (and former way corps). We shared a few war stories and the joys of grandchildren. For me, 2011 has been a fruitful year, bountiful and greatly enjoyed. I established a brand and a widely read blog with the vision to grow to have a wider reach with an expanded team effort in 2012 and beyond. I'm excited for the path I see in front of me. Those who want to pop in from time to time to check on my progress can find me at "Arizona Eagletarian"

good points. also very good points.

Why does it matter? We do know that he "borrowed" ideas from plenty of other people. a quick look at the wikipedia article on Barth shows that he was widely respected as a great 20th century philosopher/theologian who put several unconventional ideas forth. It's not unreasonable to figure he met the guy, whether Barth thought it was a big deal or not.

Btw, how EVIL is the concept of the "doulos?" Slave to the Lord in concept but slave to the TWI hierarchy in practice. No thank you. The entire concept, as I recall (having left twi 25 years ago) as it was taught and practiced, was counter to the dignity of the individual, made a mockery of free will and engendered mental laziness (since the doulos only had to follow orders, not figure things out for her/himself).

Yeah, that would cover it. :)

Might some have found new direction in their lives without being involved in a local church, solace in scripture reading, prayer and family-centered joys? Transitions in life can bring upheaval and life can seem for a time like it's in shambles. Emerging from those times, a man or woman can find new direction for service and meaning and a higher calling outside of what social and religious structures he or she had become familiar (and comfortable) with. Ultimately, finding a life's calling in service to something bigger than yourself, be it God, service to society or whatever. For a few years, I attended a church and became close with an assistant pastor who had known a few others who had been involved with twi. Eventually, that church grew to be a weary experience for me. I'm happy and believe I've found my calling, at least for now. But am not involved with any church or ministry.

Not all community organizers take things to that extreme. And, btw, anyone who was politically to the left of Attila the Hun was also demonized by Wierwille... and that much continues with many former followers.

Thanks Ham. :)

Nailed it.