OK, I'll admit I don't always agree with everyone posting and I'm pretty sure they could say the same of me. But "stone cold hearts"? "Hate and destroy all thoughts of good"? That sounds a tad extreme not to mention a little too overly generalized in my opinion. And like Todd Snider says in his song by the same name,I think I'm an "Alright Guy".
I didn't leave TWI because I hated it. I left it because certain people within had committed acts so heinous that I cannot forgive them unless they have remorse, which they do not... BECAUSE they're behavior was encouraged, underwritten, dictated, and even celebrated up the WAY TREE. the leaders are not worthy of respect, IMO. some few are there because they love God's people, but I'd say from my experience the higher you go the more rare those individuals are, and that plenty of FCs are just petty dictators. this hierarchy was shaped by vpw and his values became their values, and the fact that the value system was corrupt to begin with made it so much easier for lcm to twist it the way he did.
my first twig was pretty sweet IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT THEY CONSTANTLY TRIED TO WEAR ME DOWN TO THE POINT I'D GIVE IN AND GO WOW.
my second twig was pretty sweet IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT THEY GOT BEHIND LCM 100% AND DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD TO MAKE SURE WE ALL PUT OUR HEARTS WHERE THEIRS WERE.
then I went wow. after that, for 15 years, I can say I only had one decent FC couple who seemed to care about people. they were brand-spanking new corps grads. if they're still around, I doubt they're still sweet, which makes me sad. the politics of the organization make it impossible to stay sweet AND follow the leader.
and waysider, thanks as well, I didn't mean to leave you out but you posted while I was composing this long ramble.
It is great what you are trying to do but these people here have stone cold hearts. They believe that the sun rises and falls on them. The people hate and destroy all thoughts of good. They produce evil images of the TWI. The thought of greatness in the TWI is a breath of fresh air in this dense fog of disruption. The people here thrive on the hatred of TWI. They are driven to hate, so I am glad you are here, you are welcome but don't expect a happy crowd. They trample on the first thought of that and kill it till you think no one agrees.
CK
Ck -- just for the record --- You were never in twi, correct?
So our *stone cold hearts* is a perception in your mind, due to your allegiance to twi,
which you've never been a part of (if I recollect correct).
You never met docvic, but still claiming he is an apostle?
You didn't have first hand dealings with his BS, like others here.
FYI -- folks here don't thive on the hatred of twi,
we thrive on living life as we should have been able to, while still in.
You -- having never experienced that -- wouldn't know what a release it is.
BTW --we are a happy crowd. Happy to be free of legalism and mind control.
It's nice to be able to think for one's self again, without someone over your shoulder.
But you wouldn't know about that -- so it's a moot point.
Um, I believe the word *witnessed* would be more apropriate :(
No, no you produced it, made it up, made yourself see it, constructed images, witnessed came into mind when you believed what the devil showed you. So in this case witness is out of place. The more accurate way of saying it is I decided to fall to the devil and believe the crap he hand fed.
I'm very curious about this ckmkeon and their history with TWI (or with whatever group it is that uses vpw's teachings).
he/she defends vpw (or should I say "the apostle") so adamently. why? what has vpw done to merit such blind adulation?
I'm almost left with the eerie feeling that ckmkeon = LCM. now that LCM can't afford a copy editor, this may be his actual writing style. is that you, Craigy-poo?
but you're far too young to be LCM masquerading as an innocent vpw fan. I conlude that you're being honest about your age and background (based on other threads I just read) and that you sincerely believe your parents and don't feel any need to check things out for yourself.
I wouldn't believe my mother regarding anyone's character now, although at 20 I was firmly convinced she was right. it doesn't hurt to question if you they really are right. I learned that lesson far too late.
Yeah I really like that one it's one of the best on here, but why stop there. We should look at the 12 other topics I started. Tell me why David, why did you focus on this particular one. Possibly because it fits into your theory the best way.
(Qutoe from David
where would i be without SIT
Hmmmmm most likely dead. It is the one thing that keeps me sane in this world today.
Mabey I am a simpleton for believing so, but I still see it (SIT) as my one ROCK-SOLID CONNECTION with the Father, and His Son Jesus Christ.
It does give me comfort, I know I am praying for others when I do it in their behalf, and NOOOOO -- it is NOT prerequisite to receiving rvelation.(What a crock that was!!!).
If you want to know more about length of interpretation, etc. etc. etc., then go to the new CES site, Truth or Tradition.
Last time I looked, there was plenty there about this very subject. )
Well it seems like your true colors come out in this post. Just depending on how you spin things everything can come out in your favor. Why don't you look at my thread "Why can't we seperate TWI from the word."
So its been nice chatting but I have better things to do. So try finding something that really shows my colors.
He's a teenager who was taught by his parents, who never saw vpw's bad side,
nor twi's bad side, and concluded it had none.
He was taught that, and no evidence will change his mind, so don't confuse him
with facts.
His entire impression of vpw has come second-hand from people who thought
the sun shone out of his navel.
His education-which has been short of a few things I'd have made sure he knew-
has resulted in him making statements like
"While Dr. Wierwille might have had a devil spirit I don't see why that really matters."
Last time I checked I wasn't a teenager any more. Facts can't be changed with truth. The truth of the bible is far more important then any facts. This last part of VPW and the spirit, why should I care when each and everyone here believing the lies have a spirit also. Here is some truth for you,
For it is written: You without sin, you cast the first stone.
Why doesn't ckmkeon go and hang out with the loosers still in TWI? Why is he here?
It's a learning experience, everyone here are some great examples of complete disregard. Seeing that the only thing you have against me is spelling. My knowledge of the word has doubled since the last time I was here. Why you ask; Simply to face the evil to come, I will start right here facing it everyday. Then with God's help I will be able to withstand all evil staring the devil in the eyes. Bringing back the word of truth to everyone. Well I sure hope that answers your question.
So CM, we're all the devil now, and you're staring us down?
Thus, we're all possessed?
You know all of us individually, and you can say without reservation collectively, we are the devil.
[Name calling edited out]
I think you need to take the beam out of your own eye first.
Until you get a little more humility and understanding of people with out seeing devils everywhere, or seeing the devil in any opinion you happen to disagree with, God cannot get through to you. You sound a little puffed up. Read the rest of that section and apply it. I'm sure you've gained a lot of book knowledge, mental assent, but without love, you are nothing.
your ignorance would be shameful if you were still a teenager, but understandable because you're under your parents guidance although one would hope you'd question and learn.
the fact that you're an "adult" makes your ignorance (and arrogance) more than shameful, it is downright offensive. your knowledge of the "word" according to vpw may have doubled, but I think your heart has grown three sizes too small.
I hope you find the rewards of the dark side sufficient, Darth MOG's apprentice, because I think you won't be earning any in heaven with your insane adulation and devilish imitation your master.
P.S. I don't remember anyone ragging on your spelling. your insane world view is the only thing I've seen criticized here, and that under duress.
Come on guys.. Don't you think you are being too harsh on CK..
I mean is it not all about speaking the truth in LOVE.. Agape.. That giving of ourselves to help one another. And here is a brother certainly led astray by a man, no doubt, but a brother none the less. And we ought to receive him with as much love and respect as you would your own.
Granted he may have a lot of TWI screwed up fallacies dancing in his head. But, then again, didn't we all at some point in time..
Nah, I won't laugh at you CK.. But I will pray that the Father opens your eyes to see the truth. The truth that SIT is not your ROCK-SOLID connection with the Father and His Son. Your connection with your Father and His Son is no different than your connection with your earthly dad and the believers. No special secret language needed. Just talk to him.
Why does religion have to make things so hard.. God made it all so simple! 2 commandments that all the law was on, love God, love your neighbor..
I know, the second is hard when faced with some people. But I think it's good to at least try!
Come on guys.. Don't you think you are being too harsh on CK..
I mean is it not all about speaking the truth in LOVE.. Agape.. That giving of ourselves to help one another. And here is a brother certainly led astray by a man, no doubt, but a brother none the less. And we ought to receive him with as much love and respect as you would your own.
Granted he may have a lot of TWI screwed up fallacies dancing in his head. But, then again, didn't we all at some point in time..
Nah, I won't laugh at you CK.. But I will pray that the Father opens your eyes to see the truth. The truth that SIT is not your ROCK-SOLID connection with the Father and His Son. Your connection with your Father and His Son is no different than your connection with your earthly dad and the believers. No special secret language needed. Just talk to him.
Why does religion have to make things so hard.. God made it all so simple! 2 commandments that all the law was on, love God, love your neighbor..
I know, the second is hard when faced with some people. But I think it's good to at least try!
You're obviously not familiar with ck's "work" here... speaking the truth in love is the farthest thing from his thoughts... before you chastise the rest of the folks here, why not read back to their early replys to ck... almost (if not) all of the folks here approached him on the level you're suggesting... he spit on them and then turned around and mooned them...
so you're 20 now ck??? ...and your knowledge of the word has doubled since you were last here??? ...and now you come here to stare down the devil???
I don't know if that speaks to how little word you knew or what... look into my eyes ck... look into my eyes!!!
This part is my favorite - where he pretends he's his daddy.... ck's daddy speaks
ck, oldiesman, allan and mike are all notorious for completely derailing threads and other behavior that generates the same type of complaints. The funny thing is, I think they don't even get along all that great with each other. :ph34r:
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waysider
OK, I'll admit I don't always agree with everyone posting and I'm pretty sure they could say the same of me. But "stone cold hearts"? "Hate and destroy all thoughts of good"? That sounds a tad extreme not to mention a little too overly generalized in my opinion. And like Todd Snider says in his song by the same name,I think I'm an "Alright Guy".
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potato
belle, rascal, kit... thank you!
I didn't leave TWI because I hated it. I left it because certain people within had committed acts so heinous that I cannot forgive them unless they have remorse, which they do not... BECAUSE they're behavior was encouraged, underwritten, dictated, and even celebrated up the WAY TREE. the leaders are not worthy of respect, IMO. some few are there because they love God's people, but I'd say from my experience the higher you go the more rare those individuals are, and that plenty of FCs are just petty dictators. this hierarchy was shaped by vpw and his values became their values, and the fact that the value system was corrupt to begin with made it so much easier for lcm to twist it the way he did.
my first twig was pretty sweet IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT THEY CONSTANTLY TRIED TO WEAR ME DOWN TO THE POINT I'D GIVE IN AND GO WOW.
my second twig was pretty sweet IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT THEY GOT BEHIND LCM 100% AND DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD TO MAKE SURE WE ALL PUT OUR HEARTS WHERE THEIRS WERE.
then I went wow. after that, for 15 years, I can say I only had one decent FC couple who seemed to care about people. they were brand-spanking new corps grads. if they're still around, I doubt they're still sweet, which makes me sad. the politics of the organization make it impossible to stay sweet AND follow the leader.
and waysider, thanks as well, I didn't mean to leave you out but you posted while I was composing this long ramble.
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dmiller
Ck -- just for the record --- You were never in twi, correct?
So our *stone cold hearts* is a perception in your mind, due to your allegiance to twi,
which you've never been a part of (if I recollect correct).
You never met docvic, but still claiming he is an apostle?
You didn't have first hand dealings with his BS, like others here.
FYI -- folks here don't thive on the hatred of twi,
we thrive on living life as we should have been able to, while still in.
You -- having never experienced that -- wouldn't know what a release it is.
BTW --we are a happy crowd. Happy to be free of legalism and mind control.
It's nice to be able to think for one's self again, without someone over your shoulder.
But you wouldn't know about that -- so it's a moot point.
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ckmkeon
No, no you produced it, made it up, made yourself see it, constructed images, witnessed came into mind when you believed what the devil showed you. So in this case witness is out of place. The more accurate way of saying it is I decided to fall to the devil and believe the crap he hand fed.
Just thought I would help you figure it out.
CK
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potato
I'm very curious about this ckmkeon and their history with TWI (or with whatever group it is that uses vpw's teachings).
he/she defends vpw (or should I say "the apostle") so adamently. why? what has vpw done to merit such blind adulation?
I'm almost left with the eerie feeling that ckmkeon = LCM. now that LCM can't afford a copy editor, this may be his actual writing style. is that you, Craigy-poo?
things that make you go hm.
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potato
but you're far too young to be LCM masquerading as an innocent vpw fan. I conlude that you're being honest about your age and background (based on other threads I just read) and that you sincerely believe your parents and don't feel any need to check things out for yourself.
I wouldn't believe my mother regarding anyone's character now, although at 20 I was firmly convinced she was right. it doesn't hurt to question if you they really are right. I learned that lesson far too late.
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dmiller
Potato -- check out THIS THREAD. :)
Chris (Ck) flies his true colors here.
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WordWolf
He's a teenager who was taught by his parents, who never saw vpw's bad side,
nor twi's bad side, and concluded it had none.
He was taught that, and no evidence will change his mind, so don't confuse him
with facts.
His entire impression of vpw has come second-hand from people who thought
the sun shone out of his navel.
His education-which has been short of a few things I'd have made sure he knew-
has resulted in him making statements like
"While Dr. Wierwille might have had a devil spirit I don't see why that really matters."
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potato
good to know. I can skip his posts without feeling like I'm not giving a differing opinion merited attention.
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potato
HAHAHAHAHAHA! I just read the thread... now I'll be laughing all day!
Darth MOG... priceless!
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Belle
Oh, where's the one where ck's "dad" posted under his name? That one had me giggling for days.
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ckmkeon
Yeah I really like that one it's one of the best on here, but why stop there. We should look at the 12 other topics I started. Tell me why David, why did you focus on this particular one. Possibly because it fits into your theory the best way.
(Qutoe from David
where would i be without SIT
Hmmmmm most likely dead. It is the one thing that keeps me sane in this world today.
Mabey I am a simpleton for believing so, but I still see it (SIT) as my one ROCK-SOLID CONNECTION with the Father, and His Son Jesus Christ.
It does give me comfort, I know I am praying for others when I do it in their behalf, and NOOOOO -- it is NOT prerequisite to receiving rvelation.(What a crock that was!!!).
If you want to know more about length of interpretation, etc. etc. etc., then go to the new CES site, Truth or Tradition.
Last time I looked, there was plenty there about this very subject. )
Well it seems like your true colors come out in this post. Just depending on how you spin things everything can come out in your favor. Why don't you look at my thread "Why can't we seperate TWI from the word."
So its been nice chatting but I have better things to do. So try finding something that really shows my colors.
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Dot Matrix
Why doesn't ckmkeon go and hang out with the loosers still in TWI? Why is he here?
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ckmkeon
Last time I checked I wasn't a teenager any more. Facts can't be changed with truth. The truth of the bible is far more important then any facts. This last part of VPW and the spirit, why should I care when each and everyone here believing the lies have a spirit also. Here is some truth for you,
For it is written: You without sin, you cast the first stone.
CK
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ckmkeon
It's a learning experience, everyone here are some great examples of complete disregard. Seeing that the only thing you have against me is spelling. My knowledge of the word has doubled since the last time I was here. Why you ask; Simply to face the evil to come, I will start right here facing it everyday. Then with God's help I will be able to withstand all evil staring the devil in the eyes. Bringing back the word of truth to everyone. Well I sure hope that answers your question.
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WordWolf
ckmkeon believes that-just as the GSC is deficient-
the current twi is deficient, also.
He's said that the magic was all about vpw, and when twi wandered away from
vpw, that's when twi lost it.
He was taught to be a vpw worshipper, not a twi worshipper, in short.
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Sunesis
So CM, we're all the devil now, and you're staring us down?
Thus, we're all possessed?
You know all of us individually, and you can say without reservation collectively, we are the devil.
[Name calling edited out]
I think you need to take the beam out of your own eye first.
Until you get a little more humility and understanding of people with out seeing devils everywhere, or seeing the devil in any opinion you happen to disagree with, God cannot get through to you. You sound a little puffed up. Read the rest of that section and apply it. I'm sure you've gained a lot of book knowledge, mental assent, but without love, you are nothing.
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rascal
My apologies ck, I stand corrected. It appears that CK is NOT a teenager, just a very immature young adult.
I suppose that this is an example of where adherence to the dogma taught by vpw will take one.
Your doctrine nurtures the hatred that blinds you, making it seem acceptable, even justified :(
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potato
ckmkeon,
your ignorance would be shameful if you were still a teenager, but understandable because you're under your parents guidance although one would hope you'd question and learn.
the fact that you're an "adult" makes your ignorance (and arrogance) more than shameful, it is downright offensive. your knowledge of the "word" according to vpw may have doubled, but I think your heart has grown three sizes too small.
I hope you find the rewards of the dark side sufficient, Darth MOG's apprentice, because I think you won't be earning any in heaven with your insane adulation and devilish imitation your master.
P.S. I don't remember anyone ragging on your spelling. your insane world view is the only thing I've seen criticized here, and that under duress.
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What The Hey
Count Dooku: I've been looking foward to this.
Count Dooku: Good. Twice the pride, double the fall.
Count Dooku: I sense great fear in you, Skywalker. You have hate. You have anger. But you don't use them.
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TrustAndObey
Come on guys.. Don't you think you are being too harsh on CK..
I mean is it not all about speaking the truth in LOVE.. Agape.. That giving of ourselves to help one another. And here is a brother certainly led astray by a man, no doubt, but a brother none the less. And we ought to receive him with as much love and respect as you would your own.
Granted he may have a lot of TWI screwed up fallacies dancing in his head. But, then again, didn't we all at some point in time..
Nah, I won't laugh at you CK.. But I will pray that the Father opens your eyes to see the truth. The truth that SIT is not your ROCK-SOLID connection with the Father and His Son. Your connection with your Father and His Son is no different than your connection with your earthly dad and the believers. No special secret language needed. Just talk to him.
Why does religion have to make things so hard.. God made it all so simple! 2 commandments that all the law was on, love God, love your neighbor..
I know, the second is hard when faced with some people. But I think it's good to at least try!
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Oakspear
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Tom Strange
You're obviously not familiar with ck's "work" here... speaking the truth in love is the farthest thing from his thoughts... before you chastise the rest of the folks here, why not read back to their early replys to ck... almost (if not) all of the folks here approached him on the level you're suggesting... he spit on them and then turned around and mooned them...
so you're 20 now ck??? ...and your knowledge of the word has doubled since you were last here??? ...and now you come here to stare down the devil???
I don't know if that speaks to how little word you knew or what... look into my eyes ck... look into my eyes!!!
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Belle
T&O, check out this thread and then decide if ck is worth your time and energy to defend. ^_^
ck in the early days
This part is my favorite - where he pretends he's his daddy.... ck's daddy speaks
ck, oldiesman, allan and mike are all notorious for completely derailing threads and other behavior that generates the same type of complaints. The funny thing is, I think they don't even get along all that great with each other. :ph34r:
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