The people who care about looking foolish don't post here.
:) I better not.
Refresh my memory, what his exact purpose was. You're talking about PFAL right? (I was very only 12 remember, twi ended its use not long after)
"This book, POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING, is one way of showing interested people the abundant life which Jesus Christ lived and which He came to make available to believers as it is revealed in the Word of God.
This is a book containing Biblical keys. The contents herein do not teach the Scriptures from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21; rather, it is designed to set before the reader the basic keys in the Word of God so that Genesis to Revelation will unfold and so that the abundant life which Jesus Christ came to make available will become evident to those who want to appropriate God's abundance to their lives."
No Mr. Moore, I think you're simply not understanding what Bolshevik is saying (and it's making me crazy).
Then I would suggest you stay out it if it makes you crazy.
"This book, POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING, is one way of showing interested people the abundant life which Jesus Christ lived and which He came to make available to believers as it is revealed in the Word of God.
This is a book containing Biblical keys. The contents herein do not teach the Scriptures from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21; rather, it is designed to set before the reader the basic keys in the Word of God so that Genesis to Revelation will unfold and so that the abundant life which Jesus Christ came to make available will become evident to those who want to appropriate God's abundance to their lives."
. . .
This thread is about plagiarism. You seem to be intent on opening every other can of worms.
This thread is about plagiarism. You seem to be intent on opening every other can of worms.
Dude, it was YOU that opened the can of worms when you asked me the question. It's not my problem that you don't like the answer. Next time keep that in mind before you ask questions which you'll be sorry you asked.
Can I "say with absolute certainty what the purpose of PFAL was"? Sure, I can. The question is: Can you believe what VP said was its purpose? I seriously doubt you could.
"This book, POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING, is one way of showing interested people the abundant life which Jesus Christ lived and which He came to make available to believers as it is revealed in the Word of God.
This is a book containing Biblical keys. The contents herein do not teach the Scriptures from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21; rather, it is designed to set before the reader the basic keys in the Word of God so that Genesis to Revelation will unfold and so that the abundant life which Jesus Christ came to make available will become evident to those who want to appropriate God's abundance to their lives
Is that so?
Sets before the reader the basic keys?...Let's assume for a brief nanosecond that Mr. Wierwille was sincere in his stated purpose...he was wrong...his book did not "unfold" the word of God from Genesis to Revelation. It was merely his way of expressing his own opinions and his own theology...(which he lifted from other people)...but he lifted the wrong stuff to begin with.
...and you cannot seperate the character of the man from his "message"...they are intertwined and reflect each other. His "absent Christ" theology was set forth to make room for him to take Christ's place as the mighty mog who would sit on his cornfield throne in New Knoxville...
...The only thing that people "appropriated" from this man's "ministry" was a detour from Christian thought into the realm of man-worship.
That's all we needed...another Wierwille apologist.
That's all we needed...another Wierwille apologist.
If answering a question makes someone a Wierwille apologist then your thinking processes leave much to be desired. The question wasn't asked if the purpose of PFAL was achieved or true. I was simply asked what its stated purpose was. If you can't see the difference then perhaps you can likewise blame that on TWI. It will make you feel better, I'm sure.
"This book, POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING, is one way of showing interested people the abundant life which Jesus Christ lived and which He came to make available to believers as it is revealed in the Word of God.
hmm.. yep, that is the STATED purpose.
"one way.." ? Perhaps that was part of the bait..
It soon became the "exclusive" way.. the supposed "greatest" teaching of der bible since the apostle paul..
The "keys" were no more useful than a middle school education in english..
Middle school english classes, at least aroud here, start kids on the right path of documentation. Both of my kids knew what in text citation was by the eighth grade..
says a lot for the intellectual level and honesty behind der class.
To publish a whole book.. without a SINGLE citation of sources.. not counting bible chapters and verses..
It soon became the "exclusive" way.. the supposed "greatest" teaching of der bible since the apostle paul..
The "keys" were no more useful than a middle school education in english..
The validity of the contents of PFAL does not invalidate its stated purpose in any way. You're setting up nothing more than a strawman argument and doing so, imo, out of desperation since you agree that that is "the STATED purpose". Many can claim a purpose for what they do but, whether they achieve that purpose is another matter.
No, actually reading.. asides from a few "mysterious" greek words, and figures.. the vocabulary is fifth grade material.
If that is all one wants in life.. no big deal I guess.
Just personally.. all I ever got out of it was a false sense of superiority, and an illusion that I was getting "results" when I was just getting my a** kicked..
a class on "keys".. hmm. How to understand the bible.. I remember thinking.. OK.. basic keys. More advanced keys in later classes..
the only one that remotely fulfilled that promise was the "keys to research" class. (no longer offered.)
What did I get from THAT?
OH.. connective words, knew that already..
learned what an atlas was..
and a "suggestion" from the teacher..
"if ole vic didn't teach it, I wouldn't venture into other areas.."
Now I think that bit of advice was given, lest the student pick up another person's work, and read line by line and word for word what vic just raw copied.
Ya know.. those who "grew up" and went beyond what the vicster presented, were KICKED OUT.
Yeah.. the GMIR guys.. who's left?
Walter's been gone for years.. he was one of the few with a brain in the organization. I really think he would have taken the organization in a more responable, legitimate direction..
...Many can claim a purpose for what they do but, whether they achieve that purpose is another matter.
When I readthe PFAL book and see VPW's ineptness and often flagrant disregard of biblical keys - that's a red flag that the ideas aren't even his let alone that he mastered any of them. You may want to use the search features of GSC to read up on threads discussing VPW's twisting of II Peter 1:20, 21, Scripture is of no private interpretation - and that was his big selling point for using the keys…the actual purpose of the PFAL book seems to be how VPW unfolds Genesis to Revelation. Truth in advertising is a rare thing – I agree with Bolshevik:
...His plagiarism has everything to do with it. Deceit. Deceit. Deceit.
Just personally.. all I ever got out of it was a false sense of superiority, and an illusion that I was getting "results" when I was just getting my a** kicked..
We all get something out anything we give our attention to. I cannot say your personal experience was not what you got out of it. However, one thing I did get out of it was "Knowledge puffeth up, but the love of God edifieth." I suppose if someone didn't get at least that much knowledge out of it then they missed the boat and anything else they got out of it wasn't worth a hill of beans.
"Knowledge puffeth up, but the love of God edifieth."
I didn't get that in der ministry. Maybe some did..
I got an air of "superiority", a sense that I was on the inside of a few secrets.. I was an egotisitcal, arroganct SOB.. and I mistook it for "boldness".
when what I practiced did not work, I could blame the devil for fighting my efforts.. when things seemingly worked, I had a dogma that I could give the glory to. No matter what happened, I was "right".
IMO, the stated purpose of PFAL is totally meaningless if the actual purpose of PFAL was not the same.
To keep going back to the stated purpose of PFAL and completely ignore the fact that PFAL DID NOT live up to the stated purpose, in fact it was in some instances completely contrary to the stated purpose, is disengenuous [sic] at best.
VPW plagiarized, VPW twisted scripture to suit his own theories, VPW defined reasearch as studying to show that he was correct. All of them have the same root, deceit--deceit of others and self deceit. Thus the issue of plagiarism becomes core to the entire TWI and PFAL experience- it is the foundational deceit.
IMO, the stated purpose of PFAL is totally meaningless if the actual purpose of PFAL was not the same.
You, like myself, are entitled to your opinion. We aren't participating on a board hosted by TWI. Hopefully, it won't come to the point where, like TWI, I'll become designated "mark and avoid" for having opinions differing from the group. But if it does -- I can live with that just as easily as I did when TWI applied that designation to me. In any case you are confusing the two. Again -- having a purpose and achieving it are not one and the same.
To keep going back to the stated purpose of PFAL and completely ignore the fact that PFAL DID NOT live up to the stated purpose, in fact it was in some instances completely contrary to the stated purpose, is disengenuous [sic] at best.
I was asked a question. I answered it. I'm not responsible for how my answer is received.
If I were to do that, wouldn't I be in essence accepting one person's interpretation of what II Peter 1:20, 21 says over another?
If reading something is the same as accepting it as truth, we're all in a world of trouble...
Just my opinion. I try to read other's opinions and discuss them as much as possible as it helps me to understand deeper why they think the way they do... if I find better information or a new viewpoint, it only adds to my understanding. If I find they are full of poo, then I discard it as such and move on - either way, I win.
You, like myself, are entitled to your opinion. We aren't participating on a board hosted by TWI. Hopefully, it won't come to the point where, like TWI, I'll become designated "mark and avoid" for having opinions differing from the group. But if it does -- I can live with that just as easily as I did when TWI applied that designation to me. In any case you are confusing the two. Again -- having a purpose and achieving it are not one and the same.
I was asked a question. I answered it. I'm not responsible for how my answer is received.
Differing opinions from the group?...I realize that you are a newcomer here, so allow me to fill you in...there is no consensus here...there is no group think. There are numerous opinions on VPW and what he taught on these threads...You will not get marked and avoided for having a differing opinion.
I have seen you post segments of the pfal book as well as "other things" that came from "other people" and then "distance yourself" from what you posted by claiming that it was from other people....why not fill us in on YOUR opinion of VPW and what he taught?...or does that make you too vulnerable?
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Larry N Moore
"This book, POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING, is one way of showing interested people the abundant life which Jesus Christ lived and which He came to make available to believers as it is revealed in the Word of God.
This is a book containing Biblical keys. The contents herein do not teach the Scriptures from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21; rather, it is designed to set before the reader the basic keys in the Word of God so that Genesis to Revelation will unfold and so that the abundant life which Jesus Christ came to make available will become evident to those who want to appropriate God's abundance to their lives."
Then I would suggest you stay out it if it makes you crazy.
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Bolshevik
This thread is about plagiarism. You seem to be intent on opening every other can of worms.
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Larry N Moore
Dude, it was YOU that opened the can of worms when you asked me the question. It's not my problem that you don't like the answer. Next time keep that in mind before you ask questions which you'll be sorry you asked.
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Bolshevik
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Larry N Moore
Bolshevik, you're floundering. Let it go.
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GarthP2000
Larry, who are you, Smikeol's evil twin?
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mstar1
Is lookin that way, the way he continually gets stuck in pretzel logic..
Bolshevik had the underlying purpose of the class right in the first place..
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GrouchoMarxJr
Is that so?
Sets before the reader the basic keys?...Let's assume for a brief nanosecond that Mr. Wierwille was sincere in his stated purpose...he was wrong...his book did not "unfold" the word of God from Genesis to Revelation. It was merely his way of expressing his own opinions and his own theology...(which he lifted from other people)...but he lifted the wrong stuff to begin with.
...and you cannot seperate the character of the man from his "message"...they are intertwined and reflect each other. His "absent Christ" theology was set forth to make room for him to take Christ's place as the mighty mog who would sit on his cornfield throne in New Knoxville...
...The only thing that people "appropriated" from this man's "ministry" was a detour from Christian thought into the realm of man-worship.
That's all we needed...another Wierwille apologist.
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Larry N Moore
If answering a question makes someone a Wierwille apologist then your thinking processes leave much to be desired. The question wasn't asked if the purpose of PFAL was achieved or true. I was simply asked what its stated purpose was. If you can't see the difference then perhaps you can likewise blame that on TWI. It will make you feel better, I'm sure.
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Ham
hmm.. yep, that is the STATED purpose.
"one way.." ? Perhaps that was part of the bait..
It soon became the "exclusive" way.. the supposed "greatest" teaching of der bible since the apostle paul..
The "keys" were no more useful than a middle school education in english..
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Ham
Middle school english classes, at least aroud here, start kids on the right path of documentation. Both of my kids knew what in text citation was by the eighth grade..
says a lot for the intellectual level and honesty behind der class.
To publish a whole book.. without a SINGLE citation of sources.. not counting bible chapters and verses..
not a single one..
good grief.
It looks like a second grade reader..
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Larry N Moore
The validity of the contents of PFAL does not invalidate its stated purpose in any way. You're setting up nothing more than a strawman argument and doing so, imo, out of desperation since you agree that that is "the STATED purpose". Many can claim a purpose for what they do but, whether they achieve that purpose is another matter.
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Ham
I still think middle school english has more to offer.
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Larry N Moore
I'm sure you're in good company of those who agree with you.
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Ham
No, actually reading.. asides from a few "mysterious" greek words, and figures.. the vocabulary is fifth grade material.
If that is all one wants in life.. no big deal I guess.
Just personally.. all I ever got out of it was a false sense of superiority, and an illusion that I was getting "results" when I was just getting my a** kicked..
a class on "keys".. hmm. How to understand the bible.. I remember thinking.. OK.. basic keys. More advanced keys in later classes..
the only one that remotely fulfilled that promise was the "keys to research" class. (no longer offered.)
What did I get from THAT?
OH.. connective words, knew that already..
learned what an atlas was..
and a "suggestion" from the teacher..
"if ole vic didn't teach it, I wouldn't venture into other areas.."
Now I think that bit of advice was given, lest the student pick up another person's work, and read line by line and word for word what vic just raw copied.
Probably not the only reason.
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Ham
Ya know.. those who "grew up" and went beyond what the vicster presented, were KICKED OUT.
Yeah.. the GMIR guys.. who's left?
Walter's been gone for years.. he was one of the few with a brain in the organization. I really think he would have taken the organization in a more responable, legitimate direction..
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T-Bone
When I read the PFAL book and see VPW's ineptness and often flagrant disregard of biblical keys - that's a red flag that the ideas aren't even his let alone that he mastered any of them. You may want to use the search features of GSC to read up on threads discussing VPW's twisting of II Peter 1:20, 21, Scripture is of no private interpretation - and that was his big selling point for using the keys…the actual purpose of the PFAL book seems to be how VPW unfolds Genesis to Revelation. Truth in advertising is a rare thing – I agree with Bolshevik:
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Larry N Moore
We all get something out anything we give our attention to. I cannot say your personal experience was not what you got out of it. However, one thing I did get out of it was "Knowledge puffeth up, but the love of God edifieth." I suppose if someone didn't get at least that much knowledge out of it then they missed the boat and anything else they got out of it wasn't worth a hill of beans.
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Ham
I didn't get that in der ministry. Maybe some did..
I got an air of "superiority", a sense that I was on the inside of a few secrets.. I was an egotisitcal, arroganct SOB.. and I mistook it for "boldness".
when what I practiced did not work, I could blame the devil for fighting my efforts.. when things seemingly worked, I had a dogma that I could give the glory to. No matter what happened, I was "right".
There were lots more like me..
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Larry N Moore
If I were to do that, wouldn't I be in essence accepting one person's interpretation of what II Peter 1:20, 21 says over another?
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templelady
IMO, the stated purpose of PFAL is totally meaningless if the actual purpose of PFAL was not the same.
To keep going back to the stated purpose of PFAL and completely ignore the fact that PFAL DID NOT live up to the stated purpose, in fact it was in some instances completely contrary to the stated purpose, is disengenuous [sic] at best.
VPW plagiarized, VPW twisted scripture to suit his own theories, VPW defined reasearch as studying to show that he was correct. All of them have the same root, deceit--deceit of others and self deceit. Thus the issue of plagiarism becomes core to the entire TWI and PFAL experience- it is the foundational deceit.
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Larry N Moore
I was asked a question. I answered it. I'm not responsible for how my answer is received.
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JavaJane
If reading something is the same as accepting it as truth, we're all in a world of trouble...
Just my opinion. I try to read other's opinions and discuss them as much as possible as it helps me to understand deeper why they think the way they do... if I find better information or a new viewpoint, it only adds to my understanding. If I find they are full of poo, then I discard it as such and move on - either way, I win.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Differing opinions from the group?...I realize that you are a newcomer here, so allow me to fill you in...there is no consensus here...there is no group think. There are numerous opinions on VPW and what he taught on these threads...You will not get marked and avoided for having a differing opinion.
I have seen you post segments of the pfal book as well as "other things" that came from "other people" and then "distance yourself" from what you posted by claiming that it was from other people....why not fill us in on YOUR opinion of VPW and what he taught?...or does that make you too vulnerable?
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