It wouldn`t suprise me. A few years ago, it was less than 3000 active adults. I have heard of no evidence of outreach being successfull. I am aware that people have been leaving on a regular basis since then.
Man, I am pretty sure that we had more people than that in our wave of wows alone in 79.
It wouldn`t suprise me. A few years ago, it was less than 3000 active adults. I have heard of no evidence of outreach being successfull. I am aware that people have been leaving on a regular basis since then.
Man, I am pretty sure that we had more people than that in our wave of wows alone in 79.
You're probably right, but TWI doesn't release any membership figures (yeah, I know they have no membership ) so it would be harder to estimate these days than it was a few years ago when a goodly number of us were freshly escaped or kicked out of TWI. During Waydale & GS's early days, there were quite a few folks (including me, Washington Weather, Igotout & Hope, and many others) who had been involved when Martindale was ousted, so we could give fairly accurate figures. Who knows how much they've shrunk these days?
You're probably right, but TWI doesn't release any membership figures (yeah, I know they have no membership ) so it would be harder to estimate these days than it was a few years ago when a goodly number of us were freshly escaped or kicked out of TWI. During Waydale & GS's early days, there were quite a few folks (including me, Washington Weather, Igotout & Hope, and many others) who had been involved when Martindale was ousted, so we could give fairly accurate figures. Who knows how much they've shrunk these days?
counting people at HQ and Gunnison I would put the number at ~3000 in the U.S. There are still 5000+ in Africa. Factor in any other internationals and I would put the number at ~8500. There are no published figures as has been noted, but that's a best estimate.
counting people at HQ and Gunnison I would put the number at ~3000 in the U.S. There are still 5000+ in Africa. Factor in any other internationals and I would put the number at ~8500. There are no published figures as has been noted, but that's a best estimate.
And that's ~3000 in the US, at most-including the children.
And there are still adults leaving.
And there are still kids leaving when they're of age.
And new people are almost impossible to bring in, or especially RETAIN.
Small wonder twi's been hiding their numbers.
Oh, and the way corps has been graduating classes as big as FIVE MEMBERS lately.
And some of them are people forced to retake stuff as a show of loyalty.
Sooner or later, each frog eventually notices that the water in the pot is approaching a boil,
and some continue to jump ship.
Some, of course, will proudly boil rather than leave "God's pot".
Does ABS still remain in the country where it was given or is it now all sent to HQ. Even if its all sent to HQ I don't think they have enough ABS coming in to support more than say 30 people on staff (I'm thinking of payroll being 33% of total income). I think the ship is sunk and the life rafts are leaking air..
ABS still remains in the country of origin, but no country is producing much. The U.S. doesn't need the ABS though and the BODs don't care much about that. They are sitting on millions from invesments.
ABS still remains in the country of origin, but no country is producing much. The U.S. doesn't need the ABS though and the BODs don't care much about that. They are sitting on millions from invesments.
millions? I had a free ride to college, they had me convinced if I didn't go corps I would suffer eternal shame. School is for the weak. Now I take out loans to buy family's groceries. But debt sinful. I should ABS more of my measly paycheck. They gave me a peanut and potato skin when I left the gulag.
Well they are probably still counting people that used to fellowship. I know 2 years ago in our branch there were at least 5 (if not more) people that no longer attended anything but were still listed in our official branch count.
Well they are probably still counting people that used to fellowship. I know 2 years ago in our branch there were at least 5 (if not more) people that no longer attended anything but were still listed in our official branch count.
Maybe they are counting pets now too?
ROTFLMAO...
"Fluffy, please meow in tongues and interpret...."
In the past two years the fellowship we were attending went from 20 people to about 3 people who came all the time. The last
"branch" meeting we attended was about 20 people total... and that included kids.
Two years ago the branch was big enough to fill a large room at the anniversary - a year later it only had about two rows of chairs filled at the same meeting.
It's dying. I know several people in the area who are still "on the list" as being part of the branch, but they haven't been coming for over a year.
In the past two years the fellowship we were attending went from 20 people to about 3 people who came all the time. The last
"branch" meeting we attended was about 20 people total... and that included kids.
Two years ago the branch was big enough to fill a large room at the anniversary - a year later it only had about two rows of chairs filled at the same meeting.
It's dying. I know several people in the area who are still "on the list" as being part of the branch, but they haven't been coming for over a year.
bet ya I'm still on the "list"
they have a computer to look at everyone who's ever "stood" in twi. I used to play with. They probably haven't had time to update it, seeing how more folks leave HQ than come in every year.
Does ABS still remain in the country where it was given or is it now all sent to HQ. Even if its all sent to HQ I don't think they have enough ABS coming in to support more than say 30 people on staff (I'm thinking of payroll being 33% of total income). I think the ship is sunk and the life rafts are leaking air..
In the Peeler deposition, RFR says employee costs are about 60%. I don't know how true that is, but that's what she says. That covers salaries, medical, and 401K.
bet ya I'm still on the "list"
they have a computer to look at everyone who's ever "stood" in twi. I used to play with. They probably haven't had time to update it, seeing how more folks leave HQ than come in every year.
Hmmm....I wonder if I'm still on "the list". I was not M&A, but I sure made it clear I wanted nothing to do with them. I sent my BC an email telling her I was out of there and wanted NOBODY to contact me EVER AGAIN!!! I had an innie boyfriend at the time who kept sending messages from people telling me they loved me and to tell me hi. It was all fine and dandy, but I felt they just wanted me to come back. I was embarrassed in my own fellowship for not going for a week while my parents and family visited me on my birthday. When I went back to fellowship, they said they had a card to give me and they would celebrate, but I chose not to be at fellowship on my birthday. They were really good at making people feel special. We did our own birthday parties when I was on Staff.
Then as numbers dwindled even regular twigs were supposed to go out witnessing if no on showed. Embarrassing- trying to get new people to come to fellowship when it was so boring you couldn't get anyone who drank the koolaid to show!
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QuietThinker
I had occasion to speak with WordWolf about this the other day, Wanderer. I believe the number he quoted me was less than 2000 adults.
...WordWolf...(or anyone), is that right?
~QT
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rascal
It wouldn`t suprise me. A few years ago, it was less than 3000 active adults. I have heard of no evidence of outreach being successfull. I am aware that people have been leaving on a regular basis since then.
Man, I am pretty sure that we had more people than that in our wave of wows alone in 79.
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Oakspear
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shortfuse
counting people at HQ and Gunnison I would put the number at ~3000 in the U.S. There are still 5000+ in Africa. Factor in any other internationals and I would put the number at ~8500. There are no published figures as has been noted, but that's a best estimate.
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WordWolf
And that's ~3000 in the US, at most-including the children.
And there are still adults leaving.
And there are still kids leaving when they're of age.
And new people are almost impossible to bring in, or especially RETAIN.
Small wonder twi's been hiding their numbers.
Oh, and the way corps has been graduating classes as big as FIVE MEMBERS lately.
And some of them are people forced to retake stuff as a show of loyalty.
Sooner or later, each frog eventually notices that the water in the pot is approaching a boil,
and some continue to jump ship.
Some, of course, will proudly boil rather than leave "God's pot".
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Out There
Does ABS still remain in the country where it was given or is it now all sent to HQ. Even if its all sent to HQ I don't think they have enough ABS coming in to support more than say 30 people on staff (I'm thinking of payroll being 33% of total income). I think the ship is sunk and the life rafts are leaking air..
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polar bear
ABS still remains in the country of origin, but no country is producing much. The U.S. doesn't need the ABS though and the BODs don't care much about that. They are sitting on millions from invesments.
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Bolshevik
millions? I had a free ride to college, they had me convinced if I didn't go corps I would suffer eternal shame. School is for the weak. Now I take out loans to buy family's groceries. But debt sinful. I should ABS more of my measly paycheck. They gave me a peanut and potato skin when I left the gulag.
millions? I want my damn cut.
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waysider
Bolshevik
I feel for ya, brother
Passing up a free ride is not a matter to be taken lightly.
But, you're young and the road that lies ahead is probably rife with all kinds of crazy twists and turns.
Keep your eyes on the road and your hands upon the wheel.
Note to self: Spend less time listening to old "Doors" albums.
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Bolshevik
A standing Way Corpse working in The Way of the USA Dept. says there are 7000 standing in the U.S.
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WordWolf
Forgive me for considering him either A) mistaken, or B) a liar, or C) both.
It's been a long time since they could claim 5000, and they've been hemorrhaging members
since then for years.
Granted, the more people leave, the more hardcore the remaining handful are, and are
less likely to leave, but they still lose numbers from
1) adults leaving
2) kids growing up and leaving
3) deaths of innies for any reason (happens everywhere)
Even if they stopped actively KICKING people out, that's still true.
Meanwhile, the only ways to increase membership #s are to either:
1) attract new people, or
2) increase #s of births.
twi was officially anti-births for a very long time. What other Christian organization ever had
a top leader encourage abortions? Kids were-AND STILL ARE-seen as INCONVENIENCES
since they can't be controlled like an adult can, and don't produce income.
That's more people that can't give twi 10% of their income, and money spent to raise them
doesn't get sent to twi.
If they suddenly changed polices and did a 180 and recommended EVERYONE have kids,
they'd really end up in a jam. They'd lose more control over parents, and have less to offer
FAMILIES, REAL families with REAL lives than they do singles or married "singles".
As for attracting new people, don't make me laugh. twi has nothing to attract them.
Older folk are set in their ways, and younger folk would see twi as quaint, outdated,
and lacking anything to offer.
So, less than 3000 people, including children, in the US. I can't speak for other countries.
As for 7000 in the US, I say, "Bushwah."
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penguin
Well they are probably still counting people that used to fellowship. I know 2 years ago in our branch there were at least 5 (if not more) people that no longer attended anything but were still listed in our official branch count.
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Bolshevik
WW and penguin,
I totally agree. IMO twi is well practiced in the art of self-deception.
Just thought everyone would like to hear twi's "view".
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ChasUFarley
ROTFLMAO...
"Fluffy, please meow in tongues and interpret...."
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penguin
Bolshevik,
I do appreciate the info from twi point of view. I just was surprised that it was so high!
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WordWolf
"Woof woof tweet tweet baa!"
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nyunknown
Under 2000? What happens when the TWI is no more? How should we celebrate?
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Sudo
Wordwolf,
Re:"Woof woof tweet tweet baa!"
Have you forgotten "decently and in order"??? So where's the interpretation???
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waysider
Remember when somebody ( might have been VPW) taught that if no one shows up for twig and it's just you and God, you have twig anyway?
Could that day be rapidly approaching?
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JavaJane
In the past two years the fellowship we were attending went from 20 people to about 3 people who came all the time. The last
"branch" meeting we attended was about 20 people total... and that included kids.
Two years ago the branch was big enough to fill a large room at the anniversary - a year later it only had about two rows of chairs filled at the same meeting.
It's dying. I know several people in the area who are still "on the list" as being part of the branch, but they haven't been coming for over a year.
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Bolshevik
bet ya I'm still on the "list"
they have a computer to look at everyone who's ever "stood" in twi. I used to play with. They probably haven't had time to update it, seeing how more folks leave HQ than come in every year.
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Nottawayfer
In the Peeler deposition, RFR says employee costs are about 60%. I don't know how true that is, but that's what she says. That covers salaries, medical, and 401K.
Hmmm....I wonder if I'm still on "the list". I was not M&A, but I sure made it clear I wanted nothing to do with them. I sent my BC an email telling her I was out of there and wanted NOBODY to contact me EVER AGAIN!!! I had an innie boyfriend at the time who kept sending messages from people telling me they loved me and to tell me hi. It was all fine and dandy, but I felt they just wanted me to come back. I was embarrassed in my own fellowship for not going for a week while my parents and family visited me on my birthday. When I went back to fellowship, they said they had a card to give me and they would celebrate, but I chose not to be at fellowship on my birthday.
They were really good at making people feel special. We did our own birthday parties when I was on Staff.
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dmiller
Waysider --- I never heard that teaching.
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penguin
We did that as WOWS and I heard it taught before.
Then as numbers dwindled even regular twigs were supposed to go out witnessing if no on showed. Embarrassing- trying to get new people to come to fellowship when it was so boring you couldn't get anyone who drank the koolaid to show!
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