Is Jesus Christ God?

[ImSunny2]

I apologize if this has already been discussed -- if it has, perhaps someone can point me in the right direction.

I didn't believe he was before the way. . . but was I brainwashed beyond repair? Am I going to hell because I believe him to be God's son and not God in the flesh?

This is starting to keep me awake at night.

I don't want to be possessed by a trinitarian devil spirit. . .

We humans can see the Word anyway we choose to. How can I know for sure?

Someone please help.

[Oakspear]

You're going to find many different opinions here about who Jesus Christ was. For every 5 GSers, you'll get 10 opinions

One thing that I doubt any of us will tell you is that you'll get possessed by a devil spirit, trinitarian or otherwise.

Good luck on your spriritual quest

[ImSunny2]

Thanks, Oakspear. . .

I'm ready to hear what people have to say.

[socks]

Hello imsunny2!

Here's a book I'd highly recommend - you can buy it at Borders and Barnes and Noble bookstores, or online at amazon.com. Title - "A Hiistory of God", by Karen Armstrong. It's very readable, thought provoking and is worth the time.

It won't answer your question one way or the other, but it covers the ground on the development of 3 religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. It covers a lot on the 'triune' God concept, the "trinity", the "divinity" of Jesus Christ, when and where those concepts came from - lots of stuff. It doesn't preach an opinion, but there's lots of information. This type of reading has helped me to get a better grasp on where the doctrines we now have today came from, and how. It was very comforting reading, for me.

And rest easy. Really. I have felt as you do, and I don't want to give the impresssion I'm past it or beyond it but I know I can always pray my heart to God, and yes to Jesus Christ, as my savior and simply tell them what I'm sure they already know - "I need help here". Who better to say that to? :)

If I were to answer the question straighforwardly, I would simply say that Jesus Christ, the son of God, has the divine nature of God, and was born by God's own plan and purpose to be His Son. He completely fulfills the purpose of God to come to mankind and show His face in our lives. They are "one", and as Jesus said when we've seen Him we've seen the Father. They're a real pair. :)

John 1 starts out with " in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God"....pondering that it became apparent to me one day that there is that distinct separateness to them in the way that's stated. "Was with God..." .... being "with" God isn't the same as "being God". The fact that Jesus is described as the the living "Logos", implies in itself that He isn't literally "the same", rather I see it (and this could even fit into some trinitarian thought I think) He is a uniquely connected part of God.

The fact that it's mind-spinning isn't a bad thing, from a certain perspective. God is - uh, slightly difficult to picture in one easy sound-byte. Yet God can be seen in a simple act of love from another person, or in the teachings and actions of Jesus. Are those God? In a way yes, but in a very big way, no. They're the expressions and manfestations (general English use of the word there) of God.

There's a lot to consider, I encourage you - you're on the right track. If we don't ask the question how can we get an answer? (that book - it's great, get it if you can).

Edited March 30, 2007 by socks

[year2027]

God first

Beloved ImSunny2

God loves you my dear friend

I say maybe you can ask God one day and the next day ask Jesus Christ

I am sure you will get a answer

I once asked God why can I not be the creator and he said " because you were not there in the beginning I only had the knowledge that you would be born one day"

then God said "if it was in my power I would make you me but that has done been set in spirit and even God can not changed that"

than God told me how he loves me

I am sure God will talk to you too

and do not let

greater is the love that is in you than the Way Ministry fears

thank you

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

Edited March 30, 2007 by year2027

[ImSunny2]

Thank you, Socks.

I'll be at the bookstore tomorrow on my lunch hour.

I just knew God would provide help via this forum.

You rock, Socks. :)

[socks]

My pleasure. I hope you enjoy that book.

Please - share what you're thinking, considering, learning as you have time.

[ImSunny2]

Socks, you can count on that. I'm sure it will take me a couple of days, but I will let you know. :)

[doojable]

I'm reminded of a song by Paul Simon

Ace in the Hole

Some people say Jesus that's the ace in

the hole

But I never met the man so I don't

really know

Maybe some Christmas If I'm sick

and alone

He will look up my number

Call me on the phone and say

Hey, boy, where you been so long

Don't you know me

I'm your ace in the hole

Not meaning to be disrespectful here - just came to mind.

Edited March 30, 2007 by doojable

[dmiller]

Sunny2 -- check out this site.

BIBLICAL UNITARIAN.

:)

Edited March 30, 2007 by dmiller

[socks]

Cool. The first chapters "In the Beginning", "One God", "A Light to the Gentiles" and "Trinity: The Christian God", deal with the meat and potatoes of the history of Judaism, Jesus's life and the development of doctrine. If you want to get right to the stuff about Jesus Christ and the early years after His death, start with "A Light to the Gentiles".

Because the idea of Jesus being God in some form or fashion deals with well, who or what God is, the history of Judaism is interesting in the birds eye view Armstrong gives as she brings it up to the "Light" chapter. The information is stated sort of conversationally, describing what was done, thought, said, written, etc. Her statements on Paul's "Christianity" aren't new but are interesting to consider, putting Paul into the history. For me it provides a different kind of context to view things I'm already familiar with plus lots of new stuff I'm not.

I think-and then I'll stop! -that this kind of read puts a lot of meat on the plate of what we have in the Bible's New Testament, in a very digestible form. Armstrong recounts and recognizes that in the history of the earliest followers of Jesus a lot of crazy things started happening. (and later too). The first and second generations of followers came to develop their understanding and belief of who Jesus was. What we have today in Western Christianity could be said to be much different than what the Bible actually says, and in the Bible itself is a collection of writings that span many many years.

She doesn't write everything from the view "and somebody wrote that this and this happened but of course they were lying or are nuts". The human quest to know God and to be given insight from God is recognized and looked at in a balanced way, or so it seemed to me.

Enjoy.

Edited March 30, 2007 by socks

[WordWolf]

Hello.

This thread will probably be moved to the DOCTRINAL forum,

because that's where we discuss DOCTRINE.

In fact, there's already some older threads on this subject there already.

Here's a link to one.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=8105

BTW,

here's some advice for new arrivals here...

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=7913

[ImSunny2]

Thanks for the direction, Wordwolf.

I addressed that in the beginning of my post.

[Out There]

By the way the Biblical Unitarian website is a CES site (I read the fine print)

I don't believe Jesus is God. Its a huge job and he wouldn't want it.

[Bolshevik]

In Wikipedia.org you can find all sorts of groups

See Unitarianism, binitarianism

also nontrinitarianism

Anthony Buzzard is a name to Google

[CLASSOF72]

IMSUNNY2,

[CLASSOF72]

oops!

IMSUNNY2,

I applaud you for seeking the Truth. I caution you about where you look.

FIRST and foremost PRAY to the Holy Spirit, in humility, for guidance. I implore you to read the book of John. Even if you have read it many times read it again. Then read it again. After you have read it several times, more than 3 to be sure, over a week or more, repost here. While you are reading John, look for who Jesus says he is. Look also for the point at which all 72 diciples left Him. Pray, beginning right now, asking God to reveal the Truth to you and to send Godly people in your path. Most folks are not knocked off their horse as Paul was. It takes time and study.

[Son of the Master]

I just skimmed over what others wrote so I hope I dont sound like I am from the department of redundancy department (bad joke). I am an old corps grad and was clergy in TWI. I was born and raised catholic so I was raised believing the trinity. No problem in my mind. Then I read JCINGod and because I was hungry I accepted it. about 12 years ago I was looking through John 14-16 and discovered about our life hinges on our relationship with Jesus Christ. I started believing in the trinity (which caused many to hate me). I dont try to figure everything out. I do walk and talk with my Lord and Savior everyday. I pray...Lord.. I ask and thank him for things. I tell Him I love Him. Isnt He the red thread? Isnt he the Word? I believe that doctrinal error of the way in this area brought the anti-christ spirit into the ministry and is partly responsible for the downful. I would rather worship Jesus and not have the spirit of anti christ in my life. I am free. What? I cant have a relationship with Jesus because Dr. W said so? Or the Gospels were for our learning and not written to us? I cant believe I used slam southern preachers by pronouncing Jesus the way they did. Doesnt that sound anti christ to you?Besides all that.

I believe Dr. hated Jews stemming from his european background (read the pianist, schindlers list and find out had badly european Jews were treated by their own nonjew countrymen) I dont believe the replacement theology lie, either. oh yeah, BY THE WAY I believe the dead are alive.

[coolchef]

i jesus christ god?

i don't know

but what does it matter to me?

i don't know that either,

[excathedra]

god wordwolf or jesus worldwolf you came across a bit i-don't-know-what

[Cynic]

I’m convinced that people who accepted Wierwille’s denial of the eternal existence and deity of Christ become free of their error only if God sovereignly grants them repentance. Their problem with the person and nature of Christ seems to involve fundamental assumptions that hold them and steer their interpretive processes to suppress, distort, and deny what is clearly revealed of Christ in Scripture.

A simple reading of the Gospel of John, for instance, does not reveal the jesus described by Wierwille and TWI splinter groups. It reveals the Word and Son of God: eternally existing in the unique nature of God, becoming flesh, doing works which his Father prescribed for him to do, testifying of his own descent from Heaven, and appealing to his Father to glorify him with the same glory he had in his Father’s presence before the world began.

Following are links to what I think are some capably written pieces concerning the eternal existence of Christ, the Deity of Christ, and the Trinity.

A Brief Definition of the Trinity

http://aomin.org/trinitydef.html

The Trinity, the Definition of Chalcedon, and Oneness Theology

http://aomin.org/CHALC.html

John 1:1 – Meaning and Translation

http://aomin.org/JOHN1_1.html

Purpose and Meaning of "Ego Eimi" in the Gospel of John

In Reference to the Deity of Christ

http://aomin.org/EGO.html

The Pre-existence of Christ

http://aomin.org/The_Pre_Existence_of_Christ.html

The Nature of God – The Tri-Unity of God

http://aomin.org/natureofgod.html

The Prologue of the Gospel of John

http://aomin.org/prologuejohn.html

Edited March 31, 2007 by Cynic

[waysider]

Cynic----------An energetic response, to say the least.

[frank123lol]

No,Never was or ever will be,My son is not me or me my son.However you are entitled to believe

whatever you want to believe.

A current country song"Ya gotta stand for somthin or ya fall for everythin"

One other thought Jesus Christ is special he died got up and is still on the right hand of God.

[dmiller]

By the way the Biblical Unitarian website is a CES site (I read the fine print)

I don't believe Jesus is God. Its a huge job and he wouldn't want it.

Yup. It's a CES site with info for perusal.

They offer one side of the story,

if someone is interested in hearing that side of the story.

Cynic offered some sites as well.

I'm off to go and take a look at them.

:)

[ImSunny2]

Thanks, everyone. . .

It's been interesting -- to say the least.

How can you ever really know that what you are believing is right? Do we get to the end of our lives and pass on to the great beyond only to find out then that everything we believed about God was wrong? Why would God do that to us?? I mean look at all the different ways to see the Bible. I don't need to list all the different so-called Christian beliefs and religions.

It became clear to me today when I thought about God raising himself from the dead. Give me a break. Trinitarianism does not make any sense to me.

If I've learned anything since I left the way, it's this -- stay away from fanatics and trust God to show the way. When a group is so convinced they have the market cornered on the truth and don't even consider they may not be right about anything, RUN AWAY!!! I was a corpse grad fanatic -- but now I'm not. I'm so thankful that spell was broken.

I picked up that book today, Socks, and will give it a read over the weekend.

Thanks again, everyone. You all rock -- I'm glad we can all say what's on our minds. :)