Personal Accountability

[Shifra]

Unless a TWI believer has been totally blinded - which happens, for sure - at some point through the progressive indoctrination, most folks will have some doubts about this group. Some, like myself, will consciously overlook the bad stuff in exchange for the good stuff ... and certainly there is still a little bit of good in TWI (very little). However, over the course of time, a lot of people gradually move up the ladder from PFAL to some leadership position, and on that journey they just can't avoid becoming more and more aware of how big the bad stuff really is. Simultaneously, they become more and more locked into the system, ie family expectations, friendships, even employment. And if you are one of the most un-lucky, in the Corps, you are indeed STUCK.

Given this all-too-familiar scenario, my question is this: When does a Way person lose his or her own accountability?

Despite the goodness that resides in the hearts of many TWI believers, TWI leadership teaches the Word with a goal of manipulating their own followers, they split families, they abuse individuals, and they continue to rake in the money called "Abundant Sharing". Even they know that what they are doing is horrible, and that they are accountable. But apparently the glory they get from the believers is worth their own uncomfortable conscience - if they still have a conscience.

But what about me? If I am part of TWI, am I guilty by association? Does God hold me accountable?

Well, there are definitely groups of TWI people whom we can rule out of this accountability question. Obviously, the young kids. Maybe even the elderly, who have been soaked to the bone with TWI doctrine and no longer have the mentation to sort through it.

And what about those healthy adults who sincerely gave up their education and careers to "serve" within the "household"? From experience, I can tell you this: that if your are employed by TWI, or if you are part of some program like Corps training or the Disciple program, it is nearly impossible to get out of TWI, because you have burned all your bridges back to any previous friends or employees, and you own nothing but your clothes and your collection of Way books. It's especially hard to decide to go out on your own if you have children whom you must feed and shelter - when in reality TWI is doing the feeding and sheltering. Impossible? No. Difficult? Yes, beyond all imagination.

But what about everybody else in TWI? Those who continue to pay their tithe, and continue to attend fellowships, and who actually see the wrong being done. But they stay.

There are those who say they stay, so they can change things from the inside. I remember when our limb coordinators got re-assigned to work at HQ. They obeyed, but because they were very close with my family, they later shared their misery in their new positions. They recognized the hypocrisy and the manipulative nature of the top leadership. Still, they said they would not quit, because their presence might make a difference and their prayers were strong enough to change how TWI was then operating. What happened to them? Well, they didn't change a thing; TWI changed them. Now they are dull little robots, just like so many others.

Personal accountability is a big deal to God. Sure, He forgives - enormously. But again, speaking from my own experience, I stayed way too long, even though I knew it was wrong. Looking back, I now claim my own accountability for the "sins" of the group. This is so important. I brought people into TWI, some who are still there. I condemned others as I was taught by TWI. I denied the mean-ness that I witnessed coming from leadership, and pretended to respect them, even though they were hurting my brothers and sisters in Christ. For all of this I am ashamed. The good news is that now that I'm no longer a part of it, I can ask forgiveness and know for sure that God forgives me.

Whadayathink?

Edited May 30, 2007 by Shifra

[Nottawayfer]

If they are married, it has a lot to do with how much BS a person will endure. I knew a Corps couple while I was on Staff. He wasn't so convinced of TWI and had talked with others who were disgruntled. She was a diehard and still is. He went from critical thinking to glossing over his concerns to keep his marriage. I'm sure this happens all the time.

I have a friend who is Corps. She was divorced with 2 children. She gave her ex husband full custody of the kids so she could go in the Corps, a lifelong dream for her. She went through the program only to work a menial job at HQ and later became frustrated that there is nobody for her to marry. If she gets involved with a nonCorps guy, she has to drop her status. She is still single. I guess being Corps is the ultimate important thing in her life because she doesn't pursue her own happiness so she can stay Corps. It's sad.

[pond]

I think Jesus weeps at the choices people make in life.

I never believed God was a group thing. The body of christ yes a group thing but I do not worship people.

it is sad, and the cost is so very great. here and now and when we meet the maker some day to explain what was a priority to us.

I do not understand staying in anything out of fear tho, why would you need a God then if you can not take a risk?

[Bolshevik]

What to you tell someone raised in Nazi Germany?

I think we are all accountable to different degrees. The Bible was right in front of us. I'm sure we all had doubts and questions we ignored.

I find it annoyingly difficult to talk to those still in. They just don't think. They condemn themselves with their silence.

[bliss]

Case in point:

EVERY INNIE I have ever told concerning our ''being out'' of the Way, the very first question they ask me is.........

"What do they teach, or what do you do about Jesus Christ is NOT GOD???????????????"

No matter how bad it is............................

if people are not willing to at least ''consider'' that Jesus Christ is more "God" than was taught..or just don't care anymore................

Many will stay, even when they know it's sucks.

This is the glue that hold the ministry together and its people being bound to it.

Don't think God will hold accountable those who are ''believing'' what they think is ''the word".

However, it they are totally missing the relationship with the Lord, based on that belief, well, they are

accountable to themselves for yearning that might be in their soul.

[Bolshevik]

Case in point:

EVERY INNIE I have ever told concerning our ''being out'' of the Way, the very first question they ask me is.........

"What do they teach, or what do you do about Jesus Christ is NOT GOD???????????????"

...

I often get asked, "Well, do you have all the answers?"

Uh, no, and, why is that important?

[templelady]

One other thing that TWI was really good at was making the individual believe that they were somehow "responsible" ie "accountable" for things beyond the individuals scope of influence.

Didn't get enough people to run a class--"you people have your spritual trap doors open"

Your child got hit by a car ---"it's your believing"

Your husband is off having another fling with the newest Twigit--"it's your lack of meekness"

And the list went on.

YOu are accountable for your own actions. PERIOD.

If your husband is out "keeping company" with the 18 year old at the motor coach that is your husband's accountability.

If you know that the 18 year old is actually 15 and that your husband "raped" her and you do nothing by not going to the authorities you are accountable, at least in part, for what happens to her thereafter in regards to the situation.

Notice I didn't say that the right choice was easy, or that the mental and emotional state you were in at the time made it near impossible--we are talking about actions that were or were not taken.

There is a tendency in our culture to confuse the action with the excuse or the justification. Hence we see the man caught shoplifting in the local supermarket saying to the arresting officer with great indignation "but, I need the food for my kids" instead of admitting that he stole.

God knows the excuses and justifications of why you acted as you did, and He will be generous in taking them into account. What is needed is for you to do is to admit what you did or failed to do with no suger coating.

[excathedra]

When does a Way person lose his or her own accountability?

in my humble opinion, dear god will have to answer that one.....

[pond]

in my humble opinion, dear god will have to answer that one.....

I agree

the fact we are human is not a bad thing in His love affair with us.

we are all well aware of the mistakes we make plenty remind us everyday if not.

if we could be perfect why would we need a God?

[Larry N Moore]

Whadayathink?

I think you have a very healthy way of looking at it. However, I wouldn't feel shame for what you did or didn't do.

[oldiesman]

...

Given this all-too-familiar scenario, my question is this: When does a Way person lose his or her own accountability?

...

Hardly ever. I believe each person is responsible for his/her actions.

I believe the only exceptions would be: (1) children, who must obey their parents. In that case, the parents are accountable; (2) mentally retarded; and (3) those who were narcotized.

"The Buck Stops Here"

President Truman

[Ham]

I believe the only exceptions would be: (1) children, who must obey their parents. In that case, the parents are accountable; (2) mentally retarded; and (3) those who were narcotized.

In my experience, with the look on people's faces by the time session eight came around, number three may be the valid exception here..

[johniam]

I agree that every person is responsible for their own actions, however in regard to TWI, I witnessed to people believing those people would receive deliverance in their lives. When I stopped having any good faith belief of deliverance, I stopped witnessing, not because I stopped believing the Word (Bible) worked but because I stopped believing TWI was still teaching the rightly divided Word (Bible). I never knowingly steered people into an organisation I knew to be evil.

Oh, crud, one MORE time. Dangit. I forgot AGAIN. Sorry, folks.

Edited May 31, 2007 by johniam

[Bolshevik]

Hardly ever. I believe each person is responsible for his/her actions.

I believe the only exceptions would be: (1) children, who must obey their parents. In that case, the parents are accountable; (2) mentally retarded; and (3) those who were narcotized.

"The Buck Stops Here"

President Truman

(I'm mostly just being silly here)

What of folks who enter the Corps at a young age? twi considers people in their early twenties (possibly up to 30) to be under their parents. Someone in the corps (or Way D) has made vow. And they carry out the will of the Directors (trustees).

[TheHighWay]

It is a very subtle thing, the turning point when a victim becomes a victimizer. At that point they have been conditioned into overriding their own gut instincts and acting on what their abuser has taught them to do. Are they truly (soley) at fault for their behaviors after that? Or is their responsibility mitigated by the mental and emotional conditioning they've lived under for an extended period of time?

This question has been asked here many times, and there is never a consensus about the answer. Just like this question gets asked in our court systems every day... it's often too simplistic to say the individual cannot be held responsible because of what they endured, and yet often too harsh to hold them completely accountable.

Personally, I think the dividing line is when a person KNOWS what they are doing is wrong (especially where they have said or done things to indicate they KNOW... like Donna has, like the Moynihans have, like Craig did...) and do it anyway. Certainly many of us did things we are not proud of, but maybe we did them in all honesty and innocence, being led astray by the selfish, wicked intentions of others, or even later in an effort to "recover" what we perceive to be a good thing gone a little off track. To me, the cross-over is when you realize: there is something really not right about what's going on, and no one seems to want to change it. After that point we should each be held accountable for anything we did to aid, perpetuate, or allow what we knew to be wrong.

Unfortunately, many of us did do things we should be held accountable for because we reached that point and still clung to the hope that we were wrong in our perceptions, or that things would somehow work themselves back around the right way, or we were afraid to take the steps necessary to speak up or walk away... Those things are real and unfortunate, but I don't believe they lesson our responsibility once we have reached that point of "knowing", and frankly, part of the problem in defining where someone's responsibility starts, is that there is no way someone else can tell me when I reached that point. I have to be honest enough with myself to acknowledge my own guilt and responsibility. And while that sounds easy, it often isn't. It takes a lot of courage and strength. For some, it happens quickly, and for some, it takes years. And others will never get that place and admit they were wrong, and stop supporting twi.