Deceptive from the start

[skyrider]

When wierwille accounted for twi's inception and independent work......after leaving the Van Wert church in 1957, he laid claim to the October 1942 formation of Vesper Chimes [the three girls who sang with Mrs. Wierwille at their side, a pianist and a Payne Church assistant]. Rev. Charles Fuller's radio program, The Old-Fashioned Revival Hour, was the prototype and inspiration of using radio and music that caught wierwille's attention to use radio as a medium to reach out to others.

From Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve (p. 42) --- "By September of 1943 we had acquired the technology to broadcast directly from the church. This broadcast, transmitted over Lima's station WLOK, was called "Vesper Chimes." Shortly thereafter we renamed it "The Chimes Hour Youth Caravan" since the broadcast time had been changed from Saturday evenings to twelve noon on Sundays. The prgram was financially supported by interested listeners."

Note two things: 1) broadcast directly from the Payne church and 2) financially supported by interested listeners (who supported the church with their giving).

So, can twi really trace its history back to 1942.....because a few teenagers were singing in a church and it was broadcasted to the local area, supported by interested listeners? Does that really constitute the opening of wierwille's ministry.....or hitch-hiking off another's work and contributions to a community?

And, further..........what about October 1953 as the start of wierwille's ministry work? Notably, he was teaching an "independent" class.........albeit, Rev. BG Leonard's class, "The Gifts of the Spirit." Once again, wierwille was hitch-hiking off another man's work and ministry. AND.....MORE THAN LIKELY, wierwille did not want to tag twi's inception with 1953, drawing too much attention to this year.........with wierwille in Leonard's shadow.

If tagged to this 1953 "start".............then, twi is about to celebrate their 54th anniversary.

And, still further.......wierwille didn't leave the Van Wert Church until 1957. So, while he's still the pastor at St. Peter's Evangelical and Reformed Church, he shouldn't be MOONLIGHTING working somewhere else??? Until he parted ways with this church, any pre-dating of his independent ministry (twi) is incredulously dishonest, isn't it??

But, if earmarked as a 1957 "start"........then, twi is about to celebrate their 50th anniversary.

My, oh my.......how complicated things can be when deception is at the foundation.

:blink:

[DontWorryBeHappy]

hey there skyrider!.....thanks for the interesting post!!........vic never claimed to be good at math!!.......certainly a ''poor historian" too!!.........no one ever told him the art of deception was gonna be easy, eh?..................peace.

[waysider]

"When did the deception start?"

What year was he born?

[skyrider]

hey there skyrider!.....thanks for the interesting post!!........vic never claimed to be good at math!!.......certainly a ''poor historian" too!!.........no one ever told him the art of deception was gonna be easy, eh?..................peace.

Yeah, Don'tWorry.......veepee was deceptively re-writing twi's history from the get-go. Quite the stretch, reaching back to the little vesper chime experiment to claim twi's beginning.

Like so many other things, it's another eye-opener to the big-claim-wierwille-ministry that was "reaching out around the world." Yeah, right. To think that wierwille was still pastoring in a Van Wert church until 1957......yet, claiming that his ministry (the likes of a modern-day apostle Paul, as some proclaim) began in October 1942 by the earth-shaking revelation of a few singers at church.

But, hey............go ahead, twi and have your "65th" anniversary celebration. Recount your historical roots back to the Payne church teenage singers and build the wierwille pyramid, again, for all your followers. IMO, you might be surprised at how many of your "faithful" don't buy into it.......but rather, just don't care to venture into unknown territory and see all the glaring lies.

Deceptive from the start..............and why I'm not surprised.

[excathedra]

well.... what's "vital" is twi got the word over the world

(big snort)

[Kevlar2000]

well.... what's "vital" is twi got the word over the world

(big snort)

About the only thing TWI ever got over is the wool over our eyes. <_<

-------------

Hey, for their "65pffffht" anniversary, they could try explaining why, after 65 years, most of their "adherents" have been with them for 15 years or less.

What happened to all the "old-timers"?

(One of the questions I should have asked myself when I got involved in '71. Too soon old and too late smart)

[newlife]

Ex---you crack me up!!!

[Ham]

"got the word over the world.."

Sounds like the "white man's burden" to me..

don't yell at me, blame Kipling..

Honest to God.. without "der verd".. he really thought we were savages or something..

[skyrider]

What happened to all the "old-timers"?

Well..........the "old-timers" found out that twi's math didn't add up.

The "old-timers" learned that twi's history was constantly being re-written.

The "old-timers" did the litmus test on pfal and common sense won out.

The "old-timers" simply found NEW LIFE after twi.....and faded into the fabric of living.

And............so many of the "old-timers" were pillars of strength and comfort.

:)

[Bolshevik]

Hey, for their "65pffffht" anniversary, they could try explaining why, after 65 years, most of their "adherents" have been with them for 15 years or less.

What happened to all the "old-timers"?

. . .

I would think most "standing" now would have been around more than 15 years. Do 20-year-olds count as "old-timers"?

[WordWolf]

It's my PERSONAL OPINION

that vpw was IMAGINING he was some sort of international phenomenon

back when he began teaching in Payne and Van Wert.

However,

it wasn't until he "hijacked the hippies" in 1968-1970 that he had any

kind of REACH or IMPACT- since THEY had REACH and IMPACT.

Until then, he was an engaging speaker (since 1941 or so),

who had a pretty good class (BG Leonard's, since 1953)

and a pretty good textbook (JE Stiles' since 1953),

but very few people to heed it.

That's why he was still FULL-TIME an employee of the Evangelical

and Reformed Church.

Furthermore,

he had no qualms using their facilities and supplies to run his

little enterprise on the side, which is dishonest among

the unbelievers-even THEY know that's wrong. vpw had no

problem with it, however.

It wasn't until he was able to get land tax-free that he made any

kind of move. (The Wierwille family farm- he bought out his

brothers and made it an asset of a non-profit, so he could escape

taxes and still use the land how he wanted.)

For all the badmouthing he did of the church he came from,

he had no problem taking their paycheck and using their facilities

for well over a decade, and only moved when it was financially

advantageous to him. So much for personal integrity....

Anyway,

it's my OPINION that the first time he rewrote his history

to any major degree was when he met the hippies,

and began setting forth that himself was some great one,

and it was only about 1970 when we start hearing

"God spoke to me, and showed me snow".

He now had a whole new audience who weren't around

to know he was lying about exclusive Bible knowledge and

so on.

So, the REAL start of twi was in the end of the 1960s.

In the late 1950s, we had a small group that nobody ever

heard of.

[polar bear]

Thanks SKy-great point as always.

Yes VPee thought he had started the greastest thing since sliced bread, or that's what he led us to believe.

Only the bread turned out to be "stolen from the bakery".

We fell for the old "wolf in sheep's clothing trick". Weirwolf that is.

[skyrider]

It's my PERSONAL OPINION

that vpw was IMAGINING he was some sort of international phenomenon

back when he began teaching in Payne and Van Wert.

However,

it wasn't until he "hijacked the hippies" in 1968-1970 that he had any

kind of REACH or IMPACT- since THEY had REACH and IMPACT.

Until then, he was an engaging speaker (since 1941 or so),

who had a pretty good class (BG Leonard's, since 1953)

and a pretty good textbook (JE Stiles' since 1953),

but very few people to heed it.

That's why he was still FULL-TIME an employee of the Evangelical

and Reformed Church.

WW.......yeah, that's for sure.

FOR 16 YEARS..........(1941-1957) wierwille stayed put in the church system collecting his paychecks. Sure he spinned it to his advantage, claiming that all this time he was "working the word" trying to tap the resources for abundant living.

And finally, ten more years transpire before vpw has a pfal class ready to market in the late 60s. But this is STILL not enough for the small-time, 51 year old ohio preacher. He sets his sights on engrafting hefner's and doop's leadership and work to further jump-start the pfal cookie-cutter-campaign.

It's no wonder that in pfal.....VPW HIGHLIGHTS THOSE WHO ARE SPIRITUAL HITCH-HIKERS.

He knew it well.

:blink:

[danteh1]

"Old Timers"?

They either.....

#1. got booted, M&A, asked to leave, told to leave, ect.

OR

#2. Woke up and smelled the Coffee brewing on the outside of TWI ( in some cases Pre-GSC days).

:)

[WordWolf]

WW.......yeah, that's for sure.

FOR 16 YEARS..........(1941-1957) wierwille stayed put in the church system collecting his paychecks. Sure he spinned it to his advantage, claiming that all this time he was "working the word" trying to tap the resources for abundant living.

And finally, ten more years transpire before vpw has a pfal class ready to market in the late 60s. But this is STILL not enough for the small-time, 51 year old ohio preacher. He sets his sights on engrafting hefner's and doop's leadership and work to further jump-start the pfal cookie-cutter-campaign.

It's no wonder that in pfal.....VPW HIGHLIGHTS THOSE WHO ARE SPIRITUAL HITCH-HIKERS.

He knew it well.

:blink:

Considering that he took Leonard's class in 1953 and began TEACHING Leonard's class

(announcing it was his OWN class and calling it something else) in 1953,

it sure took him a long time before he had a "ready to market" class.

It seems more like they delay was more until he was able to get a cheap

headquarters from which he could operate without being held accountable to

a group like his denomination,

and the delay in getting an audience. After all, a DECADE of "his class" -1953 to 1963-

produced a tiny group, and it was only once he had the audience provided by

the hippies that the group experienced anything approaching large growth.

Even his OWN accounts put his numbers low before that, and we have yet to hear

from posters (with the possible exception of Peter W, since I don't know what

year he heard of vpw) predating that, and we certainly have had no first-person

accounts from times before that. All GSCers-and virtually all people in twi history-

effectively consider twi to exist from THAT point, because THEIR connection began

at that time.

Although I use the phrase "hijacking the hippies" because I think it's become a

phrase recognizable for the specific incidents of that time,

I agree that CARJACKING might be a more appropriate phrase-

that vpw CARJACKED Leonard's class, Stiles' book, Bullinger's books,

and Heefn3r and Do0p's ministries,

and claimed they were his own.

"Old Timers"?

They either.....

#1. got booted, M&A, asked to leave, told to leave, ect.

OR

#2. Woke up and smelled the Coffee brewing on the outside of TWI ( in some cases Pre-GSC days).

:)

They just redefine what "Old Timer" means.

After all, they redefined "the First Corps" once all the First Corps actually left

the FIRST time, and called the second corps "the First Corps."

Then, once all of them were gone, they rounded up all the old-timers still

connected with twi, and labelled THEM "the First Corps",

making them the third "First Corps" and the only "corps grads" who never

entered the corps.

Taking the pickle-jar and labelling it "apple-butter" has a long, proud tradition in twi.

Edited October 1, 2007 by WordWolf