When we get off to the side he tells me because my wife will not be working i can "look for a new job as of MONDAY morning".
Jeff, that is a perfect example of the way they would try to pit one spouse against the other in order to get what they wanted. They used that tactic constantly throughout the 1990's, but from your example it obviously started a lot earlier.
Okay, back to topic -- I had no idea how common these strong-arm tactics were throughout twi. Here's my story:
On the field we had someone living with us and sharing in all the household expenses (rent, utilities). Unbeknownst to us he went to our leadership for some counseling. He was struggling with some personal things and thought, being leadership, they would be able to help and counsel him. Instead, what he got (after one meeting) was an ultimatum to change his attitude or get out. Get out of the ministry, get out of our house, and get out of town! They gave him a few days to think it over and then report back to them. Oh, and he was told not to go to any other believers about this. Of course, a few days wasn't enough time for an already distressed (and now isolated) person to get anything together, but the leadership told him he had made his decision by his lack of action!! He came home, announced to us he'd been ordered to leave, and started packing. After we picked our jaws up off the ground we called the leadership. All we were told was that this person had shown himself to be spiritually stinky and we'd be better off if he left immediately. (we learned the true details much later) We said it was going to really hurt us financially to suddenly have to cover the other half of the rent and utilities! Leadership said, better hurt financially than spiritually. (Oh, thanks.) This guy didn't have time or money to rent a U-Haul so he just took what would fit in his car and left everything else behind, meaning he had to start over with almost nothing wherever he landed, and they had him tell them where he was heading so they could alert the twi-folk in that area not to let him come to fellowships. I was just sick about the whole thing! (But did I stand up to the leadership? Nope, I am heartily ashamed and embarrassed to admit I did not. I knew if I did I would be the next one ordered out the door and hubby probably would have driven me to the train station himself...)
I was just sick about the whole thing! (But did I stand up to the leadership? Nope, I am heartily ashamed and embarrassed to admit I did not. I knew if I did I would be the next one ordered out the door and hubby probably would have driven me to the train station himself...)
That about sums it up for me, too, HighWay. There are so many things I saw and did where I never stood up to anyone because of exactly this reason. We made ourselves rely on these people - we based our entire lives on life with the Household... worked with or for people in the twig, our entire social network was based on the twig... many of us (including myself) had cut off relationships with family to be a "better believer.." all of this for people who we thought were good and kind, or as socks put it...
"....One day - they're your friends, wound a little tight but they can be nice and sweet. Next day - they're meaner than a mad bee and acting like you're Evil incarnate. :blink: "
Exactly. We were manipulated.
Bottom line, we may have been led astray... maybe we should have been smarter, less willing to let people walk on us... But I think God is probably angry at the ones who hurt His children in His name and not at His children who are or were in need of healing.
After all,
Matthew 18:6 KJV But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
No I understood what he said exactly nor do I doubt that they attempted such threats. I just can't figure out why someone would be dumb enough to do what they told them if it made no sense, and second especially if they were removing you from the grounds. I most likely would not have had time to pack either , I'd have been to busy on the floor laughing at their powerless threats. Me I would have found the first space available three feet off grounds to reside and sent them postcards every day just to let them know they had Zero power over where I lived.
They once tried that same logic with me they tried to tell me where and who I could write checks to on my Credit Union account. After again picking myself up off the floor from laughter I made it a point to write enough checks to keep the account current to every exway person that I could think of. They tried to close the account twice , mailing me a check which I refused, having worked in the banking industry I simply called the Ohio Credit Union Board and made them reopen the account which they closed illegally. I know it burned their butt having to process checks to People like John Towns*nd, Chris G**r, Walter C*mm*ns. D*ug S*ed, Vince F*nn*gan and a host of others. They wanted a war and got one. If a Limb leader was dumb enough to resign without having his stuff in order then that's his problem. He should have known better being in that level of the loop.
Exactly my point Oak as usual you got it. If your foolish enough to roll over for them then own your decision you can't really blame them for your choice.
You know WD I think I'm finally starting to get you a little. Yes, absolutely we own our responses to the situations we were in. There are huge numbers of mitigating circumstances and offenses and horribly gross mistreatment, but ultimately we are responsible for the only thing we can be responsible for. Our response to the situations. You are absolutely right in questioning where it exactly was that we started allowing the empty threats of the loss of foolish things to control our responses. I certainly did allow that, and openly admit it. We can't control what happens to us, but we can control how we respond.
I can only say that in my own mind, I bought into the lies that they introduced the fear with. I was played because I allowed it. I can certainly see how it was accomplished - very subtly, with the balance of threats of losing what I had built over decades, with control through insinuations, but ultimately it is my fault. And in owning that I think I am a little bit stronger and a little bit wiser, and am building the strength to not allow it to happen again.
I applaud your efforts with the Way Credit Union.
You know I think many times I get thrown off by your statements because they come off like you are a cold heartless b@st@rd. Maybe you are. Maybe you have a healthy balanced accountable viewpoint. Maybe a little of both. I'd like to strive to develop strong accountable believing as well as compassion. To each his / her own.
Exactly. We were manipulated.
Bottom line, we may have been led astray... maybe we should have been smarter, less willing to let people walk on us... But I think God is probably angry at the ones who hurt His children in His name and not at His children who are or were in need of healing.
After all,
Matthew 18:6 KJV But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Absolutely. These people will reap what they have sown, or otherwise, as the verse states, God would be mocked. And He may be for a time, but not when all the cards are on the table.
Apparently, WhiteDove, you either don't accept or don't realize the we were being subjected to a form of mind control.
No one, that I'm aware of, sat in that room with wet pants or trembled in fear. It was a sense of utter futility, not fear that swept over that room. After we had worked so hard, for so long, we were confronted point blank with this scenario. Then, only hours later, we were sent on another roller coaster. Disappointment and hopelessness were the high cards in that hand, not fear.
So, you can smugly rehearse in your mind what you would do if a mugger suddenly appeared and stuck a gun in your face. Yeah, first you punch him in the gut, then you give him an upper cut, then you grab the gun and watch him run from you like a scared rabbit. Uh huh, sounds real good until it actually happens to you in a moment's notice. That's when you stammer and stumble over your carefully rehearsed lines and can't remember if you are supposed to exit stage left or stage right.
Believe me, there was nothing humorous about suddenly being told that everything you had worked so hard for was about to be taken away in a moment's time. Rent the house next door? Why on earth would someone who had traveled 1,000 or 2,000 miles to be a part of it ever want to do that?
You are exactly right, and these are the same tactics that have been used by cults and other abusive organizations for ages. It is basic psychology. One might ask the same questions of someone in an abusive marriage or relationship "why did you stay?"or "no one stopped you from leaving?" But unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. As you have pointed out, when someone's whole life is wrapped up in someone or something; and they are isolated from outside support, it's not as easy as it seems. Even effective salesmen know how to manipulate people. It's why scams proliferate. Anyone skilled at manipulation techniques can successfully find 'marks'. Salesmen, politicians, you name it. Especially when a family is involved, it can be very difficult to leave. If it were simply a case of exercising free will, legions of counselors, pyschologists, and social workers would have had to make other career choices! Looking around my Household, I saw people who desperately wanted to be "belong", which is a basic human need. Like many other organizations, TWI took advantage of this.
I was lucky. I recognized the manipulation being used by my Fellowship Coordinator and Branch Coordinator early on. They used classic cult tactics. First, they tried to isolate me from my non-TWI friends: "only associate with Believers", "avenues for the Adversary", "stay firm in Da Word", yada, yada, yada. They tried to present themselves assome sort of surrogate family. 'We're here to help", "come to us with your problems", more yada. Then they tried to make TWI your entire social life: meetings, fellowships, social outings, still more yada. Then they used the old Basic Training techniques of "break 'em down, build 'em back up", so that your self-esteem is wrapped up in their approval. Dsyfunctional parents do the same thing. I simply saw TWI as part of my life, not the whole thing . But I quickly saw that TWI would not accept this and brooked no competition.
Even though I saw what was happening, it was not easy to leave. I had feelings for a member of the Household and erroneously, as it turned out, I saw her as a victim. It was not an easy choice, even though I had no firm ties to TWI. I can only imagine what it must have been like for people who grew up in that atmosphere.
The daughter of Rev W.... Th.... died - she took a drug overdose.
W Th had been on staff for years.
When the daughter died - W Th was thrown out - because hecouldn't keep spiritual control over his household therefore he was no longer fit to be in charge of a department at HQ.
All this was publicly displayed (yelled about) the next Corps Night.
Including in the yell-fest: if anyone dared to contact them to offer condolences, obviously they also were infected with DS. They were colluding with him and endorsing his inability to manage his household. They also would be banished from HQ if they contacted him.
I think W TH was banished to attend (not run) a twig in some remote outpost. Never heard of him again.
Compassion? I think not. Thanks, LCM.
Thinking about it now, many years after the event - I wonder why the girl felt the need to take drugs.
Was it just teen experimentation?
Could it have been to cover the misery of being a staff member's child? Maybe she was raised "in the Way."
Or even ... (having read the sexual abuse stories) - whether that might have played a part... but that's pure speculation in light of hindsight.
In general, whether being asked to leave, leaving because you want to, being done harshly or nicely, I think that's all smyptomatic so to speak. Looking at the bigger picture, they exercise great control over people. They constantly preach/teach/speak on what happens to those who are "not under God's protection," "not in the household," etc. They are sneaky in that they befriend you "if" or "as long as" you are in their group. State an opinion though; ask too many questions; be accepting of others beliefs or religions. etc. & you will see a brand new side! Friendship should not be conditional. Love, in any form, should not be conditional & based on this or that.
With all their control they strictly enforce, but the time you realize what's happened, you are blindsided & left having nothing outside of their group. That leaves one vulnerable, with few or no friends, alienated family members, no job, no money, no resume to speak of & no where to go.
By then how it's done really is shadowed by the overall facts of the abuse one suffered spiritually, emotionally, etc. When someone does leave they've pretty much already succeeded at making it difficult to recover.
One has to wonder why someone who, by their own testimony, suggests they were never a subject of TWI's behavioral control methods, would have ever stayed at all. Puzzling, isn't it?
Oh thats a simple one Waysider Biblical understanding.
Apparently, WhiteDove, you either don't accept or don't realize the we were being subjected to a form of mind control.
No one, that I'm aware of, sat in that room with wet pants or trembled in fear. It was a sense of utter futility, not fear that swept over that room. After we had worked so hard, for so long, we were confronted point blank with this scenario. Then, only hours later, we were sent on another roller coaster. Disappointment and hopelessness were the high cards in that hand, not fear.
Your correct I do not subscribe to that theory.
I think it was fear ,apparently so do others here, it may have been other things as well at times each situation was different but the common denominator was still fear.
So, you can smugly rehearse in your mind what you would do if a mugger suddenly appeared and stuck a gun in your face. Yeah, first you punch him in the gut, then you give him an upper cut, then you grab the gun and watch him run from you like a scared rabbit. Uh huh, sounds real good until it actually happens to you in a moment's notice. That's when you stammer and stumble over your carefully rehearsed lines and can't remember if you are supposed to exit stage left or stage right.
One of the purposes in training in the scriptures was to become "word conditioned" not circumstance oriented. Jesus was often caught up in the moment as you say, Do you think he did not know if he was to exit stage right or left? I don't think he was rattled by his accusers, he responded with scripture.
Believe me, there was nothing humorous about suddenly being told that everything you had worked so hard for was about to be taken away in a moment's time. Rent the house next door? Why on earth would someone who had traveled 1,000 or 2,000 miles to be a part of it ever want to do that?
The example was to show that you had some options other than compliance to their threats.
Wd, you are exhibiting the same calousness that those twi who were throwing people out exhibited. Not everyone reacts the same way, your arguments all point toward you telling us they should have acted like you. It is illogical to think all people would react the same way to the same circumstances, given that we all have different backgrounds. Many have described being kicked out of their corps assignment and thrown out of the corps was like going through a divorce, being betrayed by the person you still love. You couldn't possible think that every person reacts the same to this, we know they don't, yet you would have us believe they should have acted like you did regarding a non similar event with twi in your life.
I was waiting for this, I knew someone would not fail me. First I never advocated acting like me. I did advocate acting like what we were trained for and claimed to be. I shared my story to that end. the thing is if you don't have a story to relate then it is insinuated that you don't understand. If you do share a story then it is all about you ,everyone doesn't act like you Blah Blah Blah.....That's a nice double edge straw man
You see it is not illogical to think we should respond the same. I think the scripture says something about being of the same mind, speaking the same thing. The response should have been it is written..... I don't recall were it says our backgrounds have any input into the response to a situation. I think it says something as well about not being conformed to the world, and our backgrounds.
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
In previous threads you often don't believe anything anyone else says if you didn't experience it yourself, you did not experience this. You likening twi cu giving back your checking acct to someone loosing their life's calling while being defrocked in a town they never would have been in save their assignment similar?
The subject was threats and responses to them. The point that went over your head was that we should respond to whatever the threat with biblical responses, not turning tail and crawling across the line
You have no authority to logically comment on this thread, you can spout in an angry misguided huff whatever you want to here, but you have no basis of anything close to what people experienced who actually were kicked out did.
I think it was fear ,apparently so do others here, it may have been other things as well at times each situation was different but the common denominator was still fear.
Fear? So tell me. Just how "godly" is a ministry that says that fear from the devil and yet uses it to manipulate people?
Then please tell me just how much Kool-aide you drank...
Fear? So tell me. Just how "godly" is a ministry that says that fear from the devil and yet uses it to manipulate people?
Then please tell me just how much Kool-aide you drank...
I doubt one could judge a ministry on one event, one could judge an event such as this one on it's own merit. If your question was is this unscriptural the answer would be yes.
Then please tell me just how much Kool-aide you drank...
None ,I was gone at the time of this event, because at that point they had ceased to follow any scriptural pattern in their decisions. The proper response should have been scriptural not compliance.
Well, WhiteDove, It's pretty clear to me now why it's impossible for you to understand. You simply weren't there. You were off in some dream world they told you to live in. Got to be like minded, ya know. Yup, speak a scripture and your troubles will magically melt away. Life must be quite simple in that dream world, where reality can be ignored and lechers ride white horses like knights in shining armor. Nope, no room for fear at this little dream world's inn; denial has already rented that room.
Fear is one aspect, not the only one though. It's the obvious one - when you're being yelled at, threatened, and someone's actions and words are imposing consequences on you - do this or else, do this or that will happen, do what I say or you're in trouble - that's going to cause fear.
The "respond with the Word" is an interesting response and one that deserves closer examination. What does that mean?
It doesn't mean the attack will go away. It can mean it will intensify and increase in volume and depth. The idea that if you "speak the Word" and an attacker will flee requires definition because there's ample evidence that when it comes to people and what people do and say, that doesn't always happen.
In fact it definitely doesn't always happen when it comes to "Christians" who, on either side of a fence of opinion, determine to go after one another with vigor and energy on behalf of their cause. In fact when it comes to Wayfer Christianity, you can bet they're going to just "love you" and love you. To death, it seems.
The conflict is set up when a person who's perceived as being "good" does things that make you feel "bad". Or fearful. It would be normal to question your reaction - they keep telling you how right they are, how wrong you are and what you need to do. You feel hurt, unsure.
You have to decide what to do. But the response of fear, of feeling threatened and especially the fact that this or that bozo just won't quit - no matter what you do - that's going to take some working out.
One way is to slap them 5 days from Sunday and walk away. Another is to try and work it out. But as I've found out that can be difficult when it comes to what so many call "Christianity", when it's really just an extension of their own ego.
Sidenote: I'd recommend anyone with money in the Way Credit Union plan on removing it, regardless of the axe you can grind keeping it there. That's the last place I'd want any of my hard earned dinero-skis. Just my opinion.
Sidenote: I'd recommend anyone with money in the Way Credit Union plan on removing it, regardless of the axe you can grind keeping it there. That's the last place I'd want any of my hard earned dinero-skis. Just my opinion.
Oh I did, when I wanted to, on my terms not theirs.
White Dove, you are such an incredible example. I'm sure, that after everyone reads your posts, we all want to aspire to walk as perfectly, and as in fellowship as you do with whatever god it is you worship.
Share with us why don't you. What's it like to be so special? So perfect? So righteous? So much better than everyone else?
Elevating man and the actions of men was the creedo of twi, the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree when you have your roots seated in the pride of man, it easy to see where such a person might be puffed up with all their "right" action, at least in their own eyes, arrogance, another twi trademark. Pride goeth before a fall....good verse...
White Dove, you are such an incredible example. I'm sure, that after everyone reads your posts, we all want to aspire to walk as perfectly, and as in fellowship as you do with whatever god it is you worship.
Share with us why don't you. What's it like to be so special? So perfect? So righteous? So much better than everyone else?
Help us all be just like you.
Gee I don't know It seems to me that we have had access to more training and understanding of the Bible than one could ever want for. It seems fairly simple to me read ,do,
Gee I don't know It seems to me that we have had access to more training and understanding of the Bible than one could ever want for. It seems fairly simple to me read ,do,
Now why didn't I ever think of THAT before???... :blink:
Gee I don't know It seems to me that we have had access to more training and understanding of the Bible than one could ever want for. It seems fairly simple to me read ,do,
"WE?" Pray tell, who's "we" WhitemanDove?
Training? Heck I was part of the leadership training program and I don't believe I was trained.
Though on another note, I do see how you can believe you were trained. Training can serve to cause a person to obey commands and give predetermined responses.
BTW - we had lots of access to the Bible. (I did before I got into twi - the Bible was right ... there... on the bookshelf.) So what? There was little if any access to Biblical understanding.
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TheHighWay
Jeff, that is a perfect example of the way they would try to pit one spouse against the other in order to get what they wanted. They used that tactic constantly throughout the 1990's, but from your example it obviously started a lot earlier.
Okay, back to topic -- I had no idea how common these strong-arm tactics were throughout twi. Here's my story:
On the field we had someone living with us and sharing in all the household expenses (rent, utilities). Unbeknownst to us he went to our leadership for some counseling. He was struggling with some personal things and thought, being leadership, they would be able to help and counsel him. Instead, what he got (after one meeting) was an ultimatum to change his attitude or get out. Get out of the ministry, get out of our house, and get out of town! They gave him a few days to think it over and then report back to them. Oh, and he was told not to go to any other believers about this. Of course, a few days wasn't enough time for an already distressed (and now isolated) person to get anything together, but the leadership told him he had made his decision by his lack of action!! He came home, announced to us he'd been ordered to leave, and started packing. After we picked our jaws up off the ground we called the leadership. All we were told was that this person had shown himself to be spiritually stinky and we'd be better off if he left immediately. (we learned the true details much later) We said it was going to really hurt us financially to suddenly have to cover the other half of the rent and utilities! Leadership said, better hurt financially than spiritually. (Oh, thanks.) This guy didn't have time or money to rent a U-Haul so he just took what would fit in his car and left everything else behind, meaning he had to start over with almost nothing wherever he landed, and they had him tell them where he was heading so they could alert the twi-folk in that area not to let him come to fellowships. I was just sick about the whole thing! (But did I stand up to the leadership? Nope, I am heartily ashamed and embarrassed to admit I did not. I knew if I did I would be the next one ordered out the door and hubby probably would have driven me to the train station himself...)
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JavaJane
That about sums it up for me, too, HighWay. There are so many things I saw and did where I never stood up to anyone because of exactly this reason. We made ourselves rely on these people - we based our entire lives on life with the Household... worked with or for people in the twig, our entire social network was based on the twig... many of us (including myself) had cut off relationships with family to be a "better believer.." all of this for people who we thought were good and kind, or as socks put it...
"....One day - they're your friends, wound a little tight but they can be nice and sweet. Next day - they're meaner than a mad bee and acting like you're Evil incarnate. :blink: "
Exactly. We were manipulated.
Bottom line, we may have been led astray... maybe we should have been smarter, less willing to let people walk on us... But I think God is probably angry at the ones who hurt His children in His name and not at His children who are or were in need of healing.
After all,
Matthew 18:6 KJV But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
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chockfull
You know WD I think I'm finally starting to get you a little. Yes, absolutely we own our responses to the situations we were in. There are huge numbers of mitigating circumstances and offenses and horribly gross mistreatment, but ultimately we are responsible for the only thing we can be responsible for. Our response to the situations. You are absolutely right in questioning where it exactly was that we started allowing the empty threats of the loss of foolish things to control our responses. I certainly did allow that, and openly admit it. We can't control what happens to us, but we can control how we respond.
I can only say that in my own mind, I bought into the lies that they introduced the fear with. I was played because I allowed it. I can certainly see how it was accomplished - very subtly, with the balance of threats of losing what I had built over decades, with control through insinuations, but ultimately it is my fault. And in owning that I think I am a little bit stronger and a little bit wiser, and am building the strength to not allow it to happen again.
I applaud your efforts with the Way Credit Union.
You know I think many times I get thrown off by your statements because they come off like you are a cold heartless b@st@rd. Maybe you are. Maybe you have a healthy balanced accountable viewpoint. Maybe a little of both. I'd like to strive to develop strong accountable believing as well as compassion. To each his / her own.
Absolutely. These people will reap what they have sown, or otherwise, as the verse states, God would be mocked. And He may be for a time, but not when all the cards are on the table.
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DocHoliday
You are exactly right, and these are the same tactics that have been used by cults and other abusive organizations for ages. It is basic psychology. One might ask the same questions of someone in an abusive marriage or relationship "why did you stay?"or "no one stopped you from leaving?" But unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. As you have pointed out, when someone's whole life is wrapped up in someone or something; and they are isolated from outside support, it's not as easy as it seems. Even effective salesmen know how to manipulate people. It's why scams proliferate. Anyone skilled at manipulation techniques can successfully find 'marks'. Salesmen, politicians, you name it. Especially when a family is involved, it can be very difficult to leave. If it were simply a case of exercising free will, legions of counselors, pyschologists, and social workers would have had to make other career choices! Looking around my Household, I saw people who desperately wanted to be "belong", which is a basic human need. Like many other organizations, TWI took advantage of this.
I was lucky. I recognized the manipulation being used by my Fellowship Coordinator and Branch Coordinator early on. They used classic cult tactics. First, they tried to isolate me from my non-TWI friends: "only associate with Believers", "avenues for the Adversary", "stay firm in Da Word", yada, yada, yada. They tried to present themselves assome sort of surrogate family. 'We're here to help", "come to us with your problems", more yada. Then they tried to make TWI your entire social life: meetings, fellowships, social outings, still more yada. Then they used the old Basic Training techniques of "break 'em down, build 'em back up", so that your self-esteem is wrapped up in their approval. Dsyfunctional parents do the same thing. I simply saw TWI as part of my life, not the whole thing . But I quickly saw that TWI would not accept this and brooked no competition.
Even though I saw what was happening, it was not easy to leave. I had feelings for a member of the Household and erroneously, as it turned out, I saw her as a victim. It was not an easy choice, even though I had no firm ties to TWI. I can only imagine what it must have been like for people who grew up in that atmosphere.
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copenhagen
I do not know if this fits or not..
I was at this melt your face meeting where this poor guy was
called on the carpet in front of six or seven people. His wife was
in the limb leaders ear about how he was not livin the word.
He was M&A that night and told not to take any money out of the bank.
He was told he could not go home the believers would bring him his stuff.
He had no credit cards to rent a room...
This poor guy had to sleep in his car for two days till he found a couch with a coworker.
His wife was so happy she had a spiritualy clean house she trew a party for the
branch. He lost everything he owned and his to kids.....
The good news is he lost his wife who was and still is a bi#%*...
copenhagen
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Twinky
The daughter of Rev W.... Th.... died - she took a drug overdose.
W Th had been on staff for years.
When the daughter died - W Th was thrown out - because hecouldn't keep spiritual control over his household therefore he was no longer fit to be in charge of a department at HQ.
All this was publicly displayed (yelled about) the next Corps Night.
Including in the yell-fest: if anyone dared to contact them to offer condolences, obviously they also were infected with DS. They were colluding with him and endorsing his inability to manage his household. They also would be banished from HQ if they contacted him.
I think W TH was banished to attend (not run) a twig in some remote outpost. Never heard of him again.
Compassion? I think not. Thanks, LCM.
Thinking about it now, many years after the event - I wonder why the girl felt the need to take drugs.
Was it just teen experimentation?
Could it have been to cover the misery of being a staff member's child? Maybe she was raised "in the Way."
Or even ... (having read the sexual abuse stories) - whether that might have played a part... but that's pure speculation in light of hindsight.
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Vyctorya911
In general, whether being asked to leave, leaving because you want to, being done harshly or nicely, I think that's all smyptomatic so to speak. Looking at the bigger picture, they exercise great control over people. They constantly preach/teach/speak on what happens to those who are "not under God's protection," "not in the household," etc. They are sneaky in that they befriend you "if" or "as long as" you are in their group. State an opinion though; ask too many questions; be accepting of others beliefs or religions. etc. & you will see a brand new side! Friendship should not be conditional. Love, in any form, should not be conditional & based on this or that.
With all their control they strictly enforce, but the time you realize what's happened, you are blindsided & left having nothing outside of their group. That leaves one vulnerable, with few or no friends, alienated family members, no job, no money, no resume to speak of & no where to go.
By then how it's done really is shadowed by the overall facts of the abuse one suffered spiritually, emotionally, etc. When someone does leave they've pretty much already succeeded at making it difficult to recover.
Vyctorya
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WhiteDove
Oh thats a simple one Waysider Biblical understanding.
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WhiteDove
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WhiteDove
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doojable
Fear? So tell me. Just how "godly" is a ministry that says that fear from the devil and yet uses it to manipulate people?
Then please tell me just how much Kool-aide you drank...
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WhiteDove
I doubt one could judge a ministry on one event, one could judge an event such as this one on it's own merit. If your question was is this unscriptural the answer would be yes.
Then please tell me just how much Kool-aide you drank...
None ,I was gone at the time of this event, because at that point they had ceased to follow any scriptural pattern in their decisions. The proper response should have been scriptural not compliance.
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waysider
Well, WhiteDove, It's pretty clear to me now why it's impossible for you to understand. You simply weren't there. You were off in some dream world they told you to live in. Got to be like minded, ya know. Yup, speak a scripture and your troubles will magically melt away. Life must be quite simple in that dream world, where reality can be ignored and lechers ride white horses like knights in shining armor. Nope, no room for fear at this little dream world's inn; denial has already rented that room.
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socks
Fear is one aspect, not the only one though. It's the obvious one - when you're being yelled at, threatened, and someone's actions and words are imposing consequences on you - do this or else, do this or that will happen, do what I say or you're in trouble - that's going to cause fear.
The "respond with the Word" is an interesting response and one that deserves closer examination. What does that mean?
It doesn't mean the attack will go away. It can mean it will intensify and increase in volume and depth. The idea that if you "speak the Word" and an attacker will flee requires definition because there's ample evidence that when it comes to people and what people do and say, that doesn't always happen.
In fact it definitely doesn't always happen when it comes to "Christians" who, on either side of a fence of opinion, determine to go after one another with vigor and energy on behalf of their cause. In fact when it comes to Wayfer Christianity, you can bet they're going to just "love you" and love you. To death, it seems.
The conflict is set up when a person who's perceived as being "good" does things that make you feel "bad". Or fearful. It would be normal to question your reaction - they keep telling you how right they are, how wrong you are and what you need to do. You feel hurt, unsure.
You have to decide what to do. But the response of fear, of feeling threatened and especially the fact that this or that bozo just won't quit - no matter what you do - that's going to take some working out.
One way is to slap them 5 days from Sunday and walk away. Another is to try and work it out. But as I've found out that can be difficult when it comes to what so many call "Christianity", when it's really just an extension of their own ego.
Sidenote: I'd recommend anyone with money in the Way Credit Union plan on removing it, regardless of the axe you can grind keeping it there. That's the last place I'd want any of my hard earned dinero-skis. Just my opinion.
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WhiteDove
Oh I did, when I wanted to, on my terms not theirs.
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Sunesis
White Dove, you are such an incredible example. I'm sure, that after everyone reads your posts, we all want to aspire to walk as perfectly, and as in fellowship as you do with whatever god it is you worship.
Share with us why don't you. What's it like to be so special? So perfect? So righteous? So much better than everyone else?
Help us all be just like you.
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now I see
Elevating man and the actions of men was the creedo of twi, the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree when you have your roots seated in the pride of man, it easy to see where such a person might be puffed up with all their "right" action, at least in their own eyes, arrogance, another twi trademark. Pride goeth before a fall....good verse...
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WhiteDove
Gee I don't know It seems to me that we have had access to more training and understanding of the Bible than one could ever want for. It seems fairly simple to me read ,do,
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GrouchoMarxJr
Now why didn't I ever think of THAT before???... :blink:
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doojable
"WE?" Pray tell, who's "we" WhitemanDove?
Training? Heck I was part of the leadership training program and I don't believe I was trained.
Though on another note, I do see how you can believe you were trained. Training can serve to cause a person to obey commands and give predetermined responses.
BTW - we had lots of access to the Bible. (I did before I got into twi - the Bible was right ... there... on the bookshelf.) So what? There was little if any access to Biblical understanding.
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TheHighWay
Pssst... guys... you should know by now that WhiteDove isn't going to change his color...
Can we stop making this one more thread about WhiteDove's point of view and get back on topic please?
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