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ClayJay

Another Way Ministry Splinter Group

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If this is a "splinter" group - I'm lovin' it and not inclined to leave.

ClayJay - It turns out that I was one of the "fortunate" ones. I caught glimpses of the life that the hard-core people were leading, and I knew it wasn't for me. My time in was not easy, but for different reasons than most talk about here. It took me a long time to disengage from the TWI mindset on certain things, mainly literalism, dispensationalism, and fundamentalism. Most of that has been within the past year and due to discussion about books people here were reading.

I have been able to come to understand what the attraction was and why I held on to certain beliefs long after leaving through the sharing of experiences here.

Having said that, I don't agree with pouncing on people who still hold to TWI concepts. It's too much like what happened when we were in. Even though this is an anti-TWI forum, we are all in different places, and we need to respect that - unlike how differences were treated in TWI.

Having said that, the main reason for the "About the Way" forum is to give people a place to process their experience in a way that is helpful for them. If that's not necessary or desirable for you, then spend your time elsewhere. I think it's unproductive to tell someone else how they need to process their life experiences, but it is productive to share how you've dealt with issues that have come up in your experience.

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It is all in the BS Message from The Way Tree :realmad: why are people still buying into that LIE?

it is not the People it is The Message is Wrong.

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ClayJay aka Clay Johnson.....here I am, I'm holding the door open for you! C'mon now and get with it.....go on...skedaddle outta here and take your attitude with you. Hurry up....it's cold outside and we're gonna freeze our middle fingers off as we salute you out the door. Can't you here us singing....."Happy trails to you....hope we never meet again........"

My oh my, such kindness towards someone who, as Rascal says;

Clay, I think that your post said an awful lot about how far you yourself need to go in your post twi recovery.

Forgive me, but you seem stalled fella, unable to examine, analyze learn and grow, forever spinning your wheels in an attempt to live within the parameters of the prison constructed from the faulty doctrines of some very disturbed men.

It takes much examination and consideration to recognize and come to grips with the fallacies of what we were taught.

I am truly sad for you being stuck, forever unable to move beyond the boundaries of your religion

I mean, at least Yoda is sad for me and not vindictive. Thank you Rascal. So please Kris, put a condom on your middle finger so that you don't freeze it off...

And Tzaia, thank you for your thoughtful post. It was kind.

"but we just have the love of Jeebus in our fart--errr, hearts, for you all"

Whoa. Glad I'm not you, for, God is not mocked.

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One more thing. Tzaia said in her thoughtful post, at the very end of it:

I think it's unproductive to tell someone else how they need to process their life experiences, but it is productive to share how you've dealt with issues that have come up in your experience.

Well, the fact is, I was very involved with The Way. And it definitely was not all roses. And so, here at this forum, I have chosen to: "share how I've dealt with issues that have come up in my experience" and what I think will be helpful to others here who were in the same boat. But, it just doesn't happen to be in line with the status quo here. I am not in lock step with you all, so, my opinion is unwelcome, so, I guess, "There's the door bucko!" You people have a weird church here. :wave:

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You people have a weird church here.

Well, nobody forced you in here, ... and ain't nobody making you stay.

And yeah, I guess we do kinda have ... an intolerance (((gasps))) for those who want to throw the 'get over it!' crap in our direction; we've had the aforementioned crap smell up the place before, so I'm hoping you can ... ((drum roll please)) get over it as regards our responses to this song-and-dance of yours.

:wave: back at ya!

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I think that one of the reasons people "rehash the negatives" is because when they were in TWI they were either afraid or conditioned to not to speak their minds about their negative experiences. Many of these experiences are vile and gutwrenching to read about. It is here that they feel safe to say that the emperor had no clothes, if you recall that cute story from childhood. ClayJay should remember that if it looks like poop, smells like poop and attracts flies like poop, it is probably poop. To call it chocolate ice cream doesn't change the fact that it is poop. You can "believe" all you want that it is ice cream but it's still poop. Were there positive experiences in TWI? I think most would say that there were. Yet many like myself would say that the positive experiences were like the bread on a poop sandwich. The good taste of the bread was overwhelmed by the poop.

Edited by oenophile

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Sorry, I just could not resist this after I read onephile's "gift" of a quote:

ClayJay should remember that if it looks like poop, smells like poop and attracts flies like poop, it is probably poop. To call it chocolate ice cream doesn't change the fact that it is poop. You can "believe" all you want that it is ice cream but it's still poop. Were there positive experiences in TWI? I think most would say that there were. Yet many like myself would say that the positive experiences were like the bread on a poop sandwich. The good taste of the bread was overwhelmed by the poop.

Okay! so, you can have your poop and eat it too! Stay in it! Wallow in it! Yumm!

Edited by ClayJay

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Sorry, I just could not resist this after I read onephile's "gift" of a quote:

Okay! so, you can have your poop and eat it too! Stay in it! Wallow in it! Yumm!

Maybe you are much much younger than I initially thought.

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I think that one of the reasons people "rehash the negatives" is because when they were in TWI they were either afraid or conditioned to not to speak their minds about their negative experiences. Many of these experiences are vile and gutwrenching to read about. It is here that they feel safe to say that the emperor had no clothes, if you recall that cute story from childhood.

I was just thinking of that Emperor story today! Especially in regards to the fact there are no "originals" of the Bible texts to "refer back to." I for one was too intimidated to point that out!

Cheers,

Charlene

Edited by penworks

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Agreed Bramble.....maybe close to 9 or 10 although for a 4th grader he's an excellent speller!

Edited by krys

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Well, the fact is, I was very involved with The Way. And it definitely was not all roses. And so, here at this forum, I have chosen to: "share how I've dealt with issues that have come up in my experience" and what I think will be helpful to others here who were in the same boat. But, it just doesn't happen to be in line with the status quo here. I am not in lock step with you all, so, my opinion is unwelcome, so, I guess, "There's the door bucko!" You people have a weird church here. :wave:

Well, shucks. What can I say. Sure wish prez Barry O. was a member of this site. We could'a all been invited for a beer (or something). drink.gif

Clay, for what it's worth, newbies show up here more often than not (just like I did about 5 or so years ago), with no clue how the Search FUNCTION WORKS.

Hell - - - I still don't know how to search for a particular subject "of interest" to me. So the new folks ask questions in the forums, just like I did.

And guess what??? Questions get asked, and questions get answered - - - even if it's gonna be a "re-hash" of an old topic.

I"m gonna be polite here, just like I try to be to be to anyone I talk to here as if I were speaking face-to-face.

Seriously - - - I (occasionally) let my feelings about certain subjects get in the way of "productive posting" on this site, and others.

There's been times I've had a beer or two too many, posted something and hit ENTER, and read it the next day (with regrets).

I'm not accusing you of that, however (IMO) you need to back off a mite.

Folks (well - - - a lot of us) have been here for a few years. Some longer than others. Not sure how you feel about it, but it is refreshing for me (at least) to see the folks who have time/ and time/ and time again (and I can now include myself in this group), come across the unending questions from those who have just escaped twi, and it's clutches. Perhaps you want to look at it as us (I include myself) in wallowing in the S.O.S, and I (for one) can see where you're coming from, but I'm here to tell you that that isn't the case.

I (for one) won't be giving you the "one fingered salute", however I hope you realize that talking about things are healthy. Some folks need to go to a shrink about it, and others don't. I'm one of them there that don't. Even so, I'll not deny the "need to talk" to those who feel they have to to get to whatever point in their lives they want. Even though I feel that a waste of time (imo), it works for some folks. For some, this site is both therapeutic and healing. It's always cool to allow folks (any and all) an avenue of of release and escape, should they desire it.

Hmmmmm. I don't suppose you're a banjo picker, eh?? If you REALLY want to see redundancy/ heated arguments/ and an endless rehash about "stuff" such as banjo tone rings/ bridges/ necks/ strings/ submerged wood/ factory floor rims/ etc./ google Banjo Hangout.

Hey - - - You have a good day.

I hope you take what I say seriously, since I wish you no animosity.

You have a right to your opinion just the same as myself, or anyone else here.

It's my imo that you need to re-think things.

But you do what you want to, eh?? cool.gif

Edited by dmiller

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Darn, and here I was being patient with ClayJay and he had to jump right into the standard "wallow in your poop" line as has been common with those who try to not be forthright with their desire to still believe that TWI leadership crap be covered up and have some kind of deoderizer and camoflague applied.

Obviously, I am talking about the Grease Spot Cafe, and obviously there are those here who will resent this observation, and naturally, disagree with it. But maybe there are some of you "Newbies" here who ought to reconsider your involvement with this splinter group, for that's all it is, just another Way International splinter group.

It makes this very simple Clay jay as you are forthright in your intention to cast doubt into the considerations of newbies as they consider the viability of GSC. And as I considered your post it seems like a measure of patience in your case appears missplaced on my part so far.

TWI is concerned about GSC. Many people here share about vile and nasty things that TWI did that led to broken families, PTSD, and even suicide among victims of TWI leadership abuse and delusion.

And while I would be willing to not cast doubt on your intentions as I shared in my first post on this thread...how is it that you are not at all concerned about casting doubt on the motives of TWI victims who decide to keep the truth about the nasty, rotten garbage that was at the rotten center of TWI, which organization once had many of us believing that it was an honest and good organization?

Yeah, I believe you are right about the relatively decent folks who may be involved with TWI doctrine still, but it seems likely to me that they most likely never had Wierwille or Martindale sexually abuse their wives or daughters. They might find themselves a little perturbed in that case, right ClayJay? And then only to have some doofuss come in here to accuse them of wallowing in poop?!

And considering what some of these folks who keep their experiences out there for all of us to see suffered at the hands of TWI leadership it is evident to me that your intentions must come from a place in your mind that ranges somewhere between incredibly f'in insensitive to legitimate victims who suffered much at TWI's hands to, on the other hand, deliberately and intentionally deluded and desiring to keep newbies away from the experiences shared at GSC for you own misguided reasons.

Okay! so, you can have your poop and eat it too! Stay in it! Wallow in it! Yumm!

The poop that we see at GSC started with that sociopathic sexual predator by the name of Wierwille and flowed downhill to his own sh!tty children and eventual splinter groups all over the world. If you don't like the smell ClayJay I would suggest picking a side that is not identical to the TWI loyalists...braniac.

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Clay, for a lot of people this is a very healing outlet.Issues get discussed and people can talk about their feelings. Back in TWI, a person would get hurt. He'd leave and people would say "he tripped out" and the same problem would hurt other people. The organization would continue and individuals were disposable. This is what the Greasepot is, a place for people who are are considered disposable by TWI to come and get healed.

Do we ever get frustrated and feel like saying "get over it" to each other ? I said it on one occasion and I'm sure others have too. Since we all deal with hurts in different ways we may not always view the way other people deal with them as the best. I view some posters as being too bitter and cynical but that may be a period they have to go through to become whole. We need to be encouraging to each other while we're on our respective journeys.

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That sounds ok TommyZ, can't complain about encouragement one little bit.

Considering how Wayfers have been led around for decades by somebody taking it upon themselves to inform others as to who is or isn't "flipped out" or in this case as ClayJay did, calling somebody's soundness into question I hope everybody understands that even a bit of an overreaction is acceptable.

But in my case, I was definitely holding back. :B)

People telling others that somebody is off as TWI leadership did back in the day to lead folks about when they have no business doing so in terms of competance, care, or intimacy just needs to freakin stop IMO.

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It is true that we are all in differant places of Healing or differant places of destruction

we get to choose which path,and to be completely honest with the world here is that it took

me 10 years after I was OUT of TWI to get hold of..... gee I think I need some help here!

The vice grip is set on people at differant levels of destruction and in order to heal we

need to let go and UNLOCK pandoros box(spiritually)

my problem healing was I had no support and was afraid to do it ALONE.

Therefore this site is really helpful to many people and not to mention family of people

who once were or maybe still in the Vice Grip of TWI Lies.(or dare I say darkness and not

TRUE Light.)

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God first

hi ClayJay

I can see why would you call Pax a cult leader

but he not we take treads where they go

sometimes people need time to heal and get angry out

Grease Spot Cape is a place we can talk about happen to us

so we can get understanding of what happen to us

The Way Ministry took on a road that we disagree with now but some love it

I do not understand how some can see a any ministry as other than a cult

The Way Ministry is our cult but JW cult is just as bad

like the Roman Catholic church who say the bible is God's word and nothing other

The Way Ministry said about the same thing

they are both cults

but Grease Spot Cape is not they just say you will find many views here

some Pax agree with some he does not

but lets both speak their mind

cult only have one view

thank you

with love and a holy kiss Roy

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It's always interesting to watch the double standard of people who want us silenced.

"I don't feel bad that twi ruined lives. I was treated nicely in twi.

If vpw went around and drugged and raped women, I don't see why I should have

any emotional response to that at all. After all, I got what I wanted,

why should I care if anyone else's life was ruined?"

So, to them, it's perfectly FINE to ruin lives.

But TALK ABOUT someone ruining lives, oh, and you've committed The Cardinal Sin.

Do ANYTHING but TALK ABOUT someone ruining lives, that's a lot worse than

actually RUINING THE LIVES.

Or is it just that vpw gets a special pass and can ruin lives and do whatever

he wants, but even bringing it up prompts a hypocritical double-standard that

finally triggers outrage?

BTW, if you hear that your sisters in Christ, for whom Christ died,

were assaulted, raped, drugged, molested, or otherwise victimized,

and their assailant used the cloak of religion (like twi) to justify himself,

and your response is APATHY,

Then SHAME ON YOU.

SHAME ON YOU, and shame on the family that failed to teach you proper values as

you grew up.

Jesus was outraged at the exploitation of MONEY in the name of God.

What do you think his response will be when he judges these rapists/molesters/evil-doers?

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It's always interesting to watch the double standard of people who want us silenced.

"I don't feel bad that twi ruined lives. I was treated nicely in twi.

If vpw went around and drugged and raped women, I don't see why I should have

any emotional response to that at all. After all, I got what I wanted,

why should I care if anyone else's life was ruined?"

So, to them, it's perfectly FINE to ruin lives.

But TALK ABOUT someone ruining lives, oh, and you've committed The Cardinal Sin.

Do ANYTHING but TALK ABOUT someone ruining lives, that's a lot worse than

actually RUINING THE LIVES.

Or is it just that vpw gets a special pass and can ruin lives and do whatever

he wants, but even bringing it up prompts a hypocritical double-standard that

finally triggers outrage?

BTW, if you hear that your sisters in Christ, for whom Christ died,

were assaulted, raped, drugged, molested, or otherwise victimized,

and their assailant used the cloak of religion (like twi) to justify himself,

and your response is APATHY,

Then SHAME ON YOU.

SHAME ON YOU, and shame on the family that failed to teach you proper values as

you grew up.

Jesus was outraged at the exploitation of MONEY in the name of God.

What do you think his response will be when he judges these rapists/molesters/evil-doers?

Thank you for obviating this. Apathy about the seriousness of these matters is beyond belief.

If any of us has knowledge that can help someone else who is in pain but we withhold it, then shame on us.

If any of us has knowledge that sheds light on past events to reveal their nature or their lessons, than I think most would agree that it is our moral obligation to speak up.

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Penworks:

"Thank you for obviating this. Apathy about the seriousness of these matters is beyond belief.

If any of us has knowledge that can help someone else who is in pain but we withhold it, then shame on us.

If any of us has knowledge that sheds light on past events to reveal their nature or their lessons, than I think most would agree that it is our moral obligation to speak up."

Well said, indeed. Also touched on throughout history:

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

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Yeah, what THEY said....

Comparing participation here with the horrors of what was inflicted on us in the name of God, excusing the atrocities committed with scriptural justification that happened in twi shows a lack of compassion and understanding for folks and the devistation that resulted from these monsters sating their sick apetites :(.

We spent decades subjected to this crap, carefully groomed to accept it and believe in the necessity of such abuse. It may take a life time to sort it all out.

Edited by rascal

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One more thing. Tzaia said in her thoughtful post, at the very end of it:

Well, the fact is, I was very involved with The Way. And it definitely was not all roses. And so, here at this forum, I have chosen to: "share how I've dealt with issues that have come up in my experience" and what I think will be helpful to others here who were in the same boat. But, it just doesn't happen to be in line with the status quo here. I am not in lock step with you all, so, my opinion is unwelcome, so, I guess, "There's the door bucko!" You people have a weird church here. :wave:

Your opinion of what works for you is welcome. What's not welcome is your opinion of how everyone else should do it your way.

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Part of losing waybrain is getting to the point that you can actually hear disagreeable things without the "truth alarm" ringing in your head.

I remember when I first started posting on GSC back in 2002 before I left TWI, there was a poster who was a minister of a church. He challenged thoughts ex-wayfers were having. He asked something to this effect: Could you think it was OK for your best friend or family to be Jewish, gay, Pagan, or anything non-Christian without having the "need" to correct them on their beliefs.

At the time I read it, I was thought "No effin way! If someone doesn't want to be Christian, they are screwed spiritually." I don't necessary believe that way anymore. I think everyone should believe how they want to without prejudice as long as they aren't threatening to those around them. There are plenty of Christian types who fit in to the dangerous category.

If we look at history, wars have been based on the need to kill those who lack of acceptance of others' beliefs. Look how many years Israel and the Middle East have been at it. And now we fear for our own soil because the extremist islamics want to see us dead because we are infidels to them whether we are Christian or not. I realize this puts us in the position that we HAVE NO OTHER choice but to kick their arses to protect ourselves.

America was founded on freedom of religion, yet we are so quick to judge if someone isn't of the "norm". If we learned to walk around with less judgment on people, we might learn something.

Tolerance is a scarey word for some people. It raises extreme emotions in quite a few actually. I have to say I have a lot less stress in my life since I've stopped the waybrain train of insanity.

Edited by Nottawayfer

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Part of losing waybrain is getting to the point that you can actually hear disagreeable things without the "truth alarm" ringing in your head.

I remember when I first started posting on GSC back in 2002 before I left TWI, there was a poster who was a minister of a church. He challenged thoughts ex-wayfers were having. He asked something to this effect: Could you think it was OK for your best friend or family to be Jewish, gay, Pagan, or anything non-Christian without having the "need" to correct them on their beliefs.

At the time I read it, I was thought "No effin way! If someone doesn't want to be Christian, they are screwed spiritually." I don't necessary believe that way anymore. I think everyone should believe how they want to without prejudice as long as they aren't threatening to those around them. There are plenty of Christian types who fit in to the dangerous category.

If we look at history, wars have been based on the need to kill those who lack of acceptance of others' beliefs. Look how many years Israel and the Middle East have been at it. And now we fear for our own soil because the extremist islamics want to see us dead because we are infidels to them whether we are Christian or not. I realize this puts us in the position that we HAVE NO OTHER choice but to kick their arses to protect ourselves.

America was founded on freedom of religion, yet we are so quick to judge if someone isn't of the "norm". If we learned to walk around with less judgment on people, we might learn something.

Tolerance is a scarey word for some people. It raises extreme emotions in quite a few actually. I have to say I have a lot less stress in my life since I've stopped the waybrain train of insanity.

:eusa_clap::eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap::eusa_clap::eusa_clap::eusa_clap:

Edited by penworks

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. . .

America was founded on freedom of religion,

. . .

America was founded over money. Religion sometimes decides who gets what.

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Some guy says this:

Your opinion of what works for you is welcome. What's not welcome is your opinion of how everyone else should do it your way

Yet, why is it okay for you all to say that I need to do it YOUR way? That I need to read and re-read of all the "horrors" of The Way in order to be "delivered". Someone named Rascal, who has a "Yoda" icon (who must be "all wise" like "Yoda") told me this:

Clay, I think that your post said an awful lot about how far you yourself need to go in your post twi recovery.

Forgive me, but you seem stalled fella, unable to examine, analyze learn and grow, forever spinning your wheels in an attempt to live within the parameters of the prison constructed from the faulty doctrines of some very disturbed men.

It takes much examination and consideration to recognize and come to grips with the fallacies of what we were taught.

I am truly sad for you being stuck, forever unable to move beyond the boundaries of your religion

So, now I am being "psycho-analyzed" by someone who looks like a rat, is not a professional psychiatrist and I am simply to accept it? No one here saying that this analysis is "unwelcome". AND it's way okay for this person to imply to me what I must do "fella", that I should "examine and consider", etc. So, this is welcome here, but this Oakspeare guy says; "What's not welcome is your opinion of how everyone else should do it your way".

Okay, I get it now. You all may tell me that what works/worked for you is something that I too should do, but, "you Clay Johnson are not welcome to tell anyone here to do what worked/works for you". Okay. Right. Like I said, some church you have here. It's either "Our Way or the Highway!" Gee that certainly sounds awfully familiar! Sounds just like....TWI 2! Am I now Marked and to be Avoided?

Well, at least DMiller seems to be a of kind heart. Really sir, I appreciated your post. No, I don't play banjo. Did a long time ago. Only guitar now. I love Doc Watson and Chet Atkins.

Oh, and I was thinking, maybe I should change my screen name to "Jackalbait".

Edited by ClayJay

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