Sad thing is, I remember when Gary D. went off grounds in 1973 or 1974 and was killed in a car wreck. All the buzz around the ministry was that the reason he died was because he defied revelation from the man of God. ----Sick, Sick, Sick
I didn't know this person, but I well remember this incident because I had a friend who lived at HQ. I was a brand new believer then. When I heard this it really had a profound effect on my 17-year-old mind. I mean, I just took PFAL and believers were supposed to have this hedge of protection, right? How could a guy in The Way Corps die? Then I heard it was because he didn't obey "The Man of God" who in this case was LCM when he coordinated the Corps. It frightened me quite honestly and I realized that since I now knew the "Truth", I'd better not disobey the Man of God or I might die!! Worse (to me) someone I love might die and it would be my fault! I was beat up by that false belief for over a decade after that. When I contracted cancer (which was a devil spirit you know) I was sure it was because of my disobedience...somewhere. With this, I never questioned this or any other teaching of The Way (I was afraid to), I always questioned myself when things didn't go well. A very shame-based, miserable way to live. Yet I would go and tell others about "The more abundant life". I wanted everyone to find what I had?
Yeah, Waysider, that incident is one of the root events. Saying this, for the first time I grieve for this young man and his family. When he was killed, the only thing people did was defend Way doctrine instead of comforting the grieving.
You may also recall at around the same time this young man was killed, there was a young lady on staff that took her own life. Again, that was explained away by her not staying "sharp on The Word". How sad. How very very sad and people were so young.
You may also recall at around the same time this young man was killed, there was a young lady on staff that took her own life. Again, that was explained away by her not staying "sharp on The Word". How sad. How very very sad and people were so young.
I guess I struggle with this one. I just can't give TWI that much credit in my life. I liken this one to blaming the one who "got me in the word" which is the one in the mirror.
I made choices, I did what I did for reasons that are finally clear to me and I blame no one else.
My husband died while we were in TWI but I can't even blame them; he had a horrible heart disease that he could have known about if he'd gone for check ups, etc. and I believe he'd have had the heart attack he did, regardless of their silly and foolish instructions.
I can't blame Ford Motor Company if I run over a nail and my tire blows out either.
I don't know........I just can't blame it on them, I try, have tried. It's part of my story, I get that; they'll always be part of my story, but I chose, I decided.
Maybe all of our dynamics are unique and there's so much more to why things happened. I certainly hold TWI a smidge accountable for some things, like trashing my husband's name after he died, holding him up as an example; they did that of their own choice.
My life is in a place not necessarily because of TWI but because of the choices I made to stay with them.
Having said all that, I know that it's not the case for everyone, just me and it's something I think about a lot and question all of this stuff.
When I got Into the ministry, I was suicidal and had been for some time....I was drinking, had flunked out of college...and was really depressed. I prayed to God for help...and I was witnessed to by a fellow laborer. I was in debt, and I was definitely in a lot of Pain. I felt "Lost" and unable to pinpoint what my problem was. After running into the Ministry repeated times, after I prayed to God....I said, well ok. this must be the answer to my prayer. And I signed on the Green card. Did it save my life? I'd like to say God saved my life.....but I think I had a track record of making bad choices. I didn't know a good one if it came and knocked on my door. I was a left over hippie...just wanted to have "fun", not be responsible or grow up...just have fun... and my fun had backfired on me and I found myself in the pit. I was hardheaded...didn't want to listen to anyone...Once involved I found it was more than I thought it was and I didn't see the errors for years after I was in. My life did change for the better initially.
I got out of debt, I thought I had found a "family", and did in some respects. Like some others have said, this has been a puzzle to me....Was it God that directed me to the ministry? It did a few good things for me. But it all went south....and so did I. I left mentally and emotionally in a bad place. And probably the worst thing was I didn't know what was true and what was not...just confused about it all.
I look back on my involvement and whether or not I ever understand getting involved.....I know this. There were lives that I did actually touch in a very loving and Godly way. I believe God was working in me to love them. As I was also touched by other people who were loving and caring for me, something I hadn't had in my life before. I actually felt like maybe my life had some value. And I had never felt that way before.
The doctrine...totally messed up which messed up people in a big way. People became domineering instead of loving...seeking a status rather than being truly loving and caring. It just turned upside down. Some of my roughest times were after I left and started trying to put the pieces back together and trying to understand it all. It almost was too much for my mind to wrap itself around.
Now, after being out for 23 years, my life is the best it's ever been...but it has taken a lot to get to this point.
It hasn't been an easy journey, but It's been a worthwhile one.
I like reading what other people wrote in response to this topic.....Thank you to everyone for your sharing!
Thanks Shellon...It HAS been a worthwhile journey...You did so much for me when I first left the ministry and I was like hanging by a thread....it was you that God brought into my life and for quite some time it was you in the chat room that kept me on the journey and I'll always be grateful for you!!!
Thanks Shellon...It HAS been a worthwhile journey...You did so much for me when I first left the ministry and I was like hanging by a thread....it was you that God brought into my life and for quite some time it was you in the chat room that kept me on the journey and I'll always be grateful for you!!!
I'm glad we were both in the right place at the right times for what needed to be said and done.
You tied a knot and hung on; that's not a small deal !
"There is a huge difference between being grateful to those that actually helped us and letting them own us. "
Very nice, Jeff and very true.
I think right now I'm alive in spite of TWI. When in FWC 20 I contracted some humongous infection like the worst flu in the world and was sick for almost two weeks, was actually allowed a day off, but of course no medical attention. A year later, I was giving myself insulin shots because a mystery virus had triggered an auto-immune response that killed all the islet cells in my pancreas, and I was a type I diabetic.
I don't know and never will if prompt medical treatment would have prevented the outcome or even if that infection was the mystery virus that triggered the immune response, but the aftermath of accusation and recrimination, the "what did you do that caused this to happen to you?" "What sin did you commit that God is scourging you for committing by giving you diabetes?" and on and on and on has certainly triggered in me a strength to survive, and fine-tuned my BS-o-meter to detect any theological garbage flung in my direction.
Well, I think my point in starting this thread is that this phrase, or some variation of it, is really something that originated in the early days of The Way and found its way into mainstream Way vocabulary like a catch phrase. I believe there were probably a lot of people who automatically parroted this phrase/idea as if it pertained to some specific, personal event or circumstance. It became a sort of a declaration of indebtedness to the organization.
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JeffSjo
TWO-CENTS ALERT There is a huge difference between being grateful to those that actually helped us and letting them own us.
Bolshevik
What to do with these folks?
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waysider
I don't understand what you mean.
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Broken Arrow
I didn't know this person, but I well remember this incident because I had a friend who lived at HQ. I was a brand new believer then. When I heard this it really had a profound effect on my 17-year-old mind. I mean, I just took PFAL and believers were supposed to have this hedge of protection, right? How could a guy in The Way Corps die? Then I heard it was because he didn't obey "The Man of God" who in this case was LCM when he coordinated the Corps. It frightened me quite honestly and I realized that since I now knew the "Truth", I'd better not disobey the Man of God or I might die!! Worse (to me) someone I love might die and it would be my fault! I was beat up by that false belief for over a decade after that. When I contracted cancer (which was a devil spirit you know) I was sure it was because of my disobedience...somewhere. With this, I never questioned this or any other teaching of The Way (I was afraid to), I always questioned myself when things didn't go well. A very shame-based, miserable way to live. Yet I would go and tell others about "The more abundant life". I wanted everyone to find what I had?
Yeah, Waysider, that incident is one of the root events. Saying this, for the first time I grieve for this young man and his family. When he was killed, the only thing people did was defend Way doctrine instead of comforting the grieving.
You may also recall at around the same time this young man was killed, there was a young lady on staff that took her own life. Again, that was explained away by her not staying "sharp on The Word". How sad. How very very sad and people were so young.
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waysider
HERE
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WordWolf
If it wasn't for twi, Tom M would still be alive.
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Broken Arrow
Thanks for the cross-reference. I hadn't read that, I didn't know her name.
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Shellon
I guess I struggle with this one. I just can't give TWI that much credit in my life. I liken this one to blaming the one who "got me in the word" which is the one in the mirror.
I made choices, I did what I did for reasons that are finally clear to me and I blame no one else.
My husband died while we were in TWI but I can't even blame them; he had a horrible heart disease that he could have known about if he'd gone for check ups, etc. and I believe he'd have had the heart attack he did, regardless of their silly and foolish instructions.
I can't blame Ford Motor Company if I run over a nail and my tire blows out either.
I don't know........I just can't blame it on them, I try, have tried. It's part of my story, I get that; they'll always be part of my story, but I chose, I decided.
Maybe all of our dynamics are unique and there's so much more to why things happened. I certainly hold TWI a smidge accountable for some things, like trashing my husband's name after he died, holding him up as an example; they did that of their own choice.
My life is in a place not necessarily because of TWI but because of the choices I made to stay with them.
Having said all that, I know that it's not the case for everyone, just me and it's something I think about a lot and question all of this stuff.
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Oakspear
I'd be dead by now...
...if I had been born in 1848...
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newlife
Great Topic.....
When I got Into the ministry, I was suicidal and had been for some time....I was drinking, had flunked out of college...and was really depressed. I prayed to God for help...and I was witnessed to by a fellow laborer. I was in debt, and I was definitely in a lot of Pain. I felt "Lost" and unable to pinpoint what my problem was. After running into the Ministry repeated times, after I prayed to God....I said, well ok. this must be the answer to my prayer. And I signed on the Green card. Did it save my life? I'd like to say God saved my life.....but I think I had a track record of making bad choices. I didn't know a good one if it came and knocked on my door. I was a left over hippie...just wanted to have "fun", not be responsible or grow up...just have fun... and my fun had backfired on me and I found myself in the pit. I was hardheaded...didn't want to listen to anyone...Once involved I found it was more than I thought it was and I didn't see the errors for years after I was in. My life did change for the better initially.
I got out of debt, I thought I had found a "family", and did in some respects. Like some others have said, this has been a puzzle to me....Was it God that directed me to the ministry? It did a few good things for me. But it all went south....and so did I. I left mentally and emotionally in a bad place. And probably the worst thing was I didn't know what was true and what was not...just confused about it all.
I look back on my involvement and whether or not I ever understand getting involved.....I know this. There were lives that I did actually touch in a very loving and Godly way. I believe God was working in me to love them. As I was also touched by other people who were loving and caring for me, something I hadn't had in my life before. I actually felt like maybe my life had some value. And I had never felt that way before.
The doctrine...totally messed up which messed up people in a big way. People became domineering instead of loving...seeking a status rather than being truly loving and caring. It just turned upside down. Some of my roughest times were after I left and started trying to put the pieces back together and trying to understand it all. It almost was too much for my mind to wrap itself around.
Now, after being out for 23 years, my life is the best it's ever been...but it has taken a lot to get to this point.
It hasn't been an easy journey, but It's been a worthwhile one.
I like reading what other people wrote in response to this topic.....Thank you to everyone for your sharing!
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Shellon
Love that! And you have been the one to do the hardest work, I'm proud of you ~!
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newlife
Thanks Shellon...It HAS been a worthwhile journey...You did so much for me when I first left the ministry and I was like hanging by a thread....it was you that God brought into my life and for quite some time it was you in the chat room that kept me on the journey and I'll always be grateful for you!!!
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Shellon
I'm glad we were both in the right place at the right times for what needed to be said and done.
You tied a knot and hung on; that's not a small deal !
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JeffSjo
TWO-CENTS ALERT
There is a huge difference between being grateful to those that actually helped us and letting them own us.
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Bolshevik
.
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Watered Garden
"There is a huge difference between being grateful to those that actually helped us and letting them own us. "
Very nice, Jeff and very true.
I think right now I'm alive in spite of TWI. When in FWC 20 I contracted some humongous infection like the worst flu in the world and was sick for almost two weeks, was actually allowed a day off, but of course no medical attention. A year later, I was giving myself insulin shots because a mystery virus had triggered an auto-immune response that killed all the islet cells in my pancreas, and I was a type I diabetic.
I don't know and never will if prompt medical treatment would have prevented the outcome or even if that infection was the mystery virus that triggered the immune response, but the aftermath of accusation and recrimination, the "what did you do that caused this to happen to you?" "What sin did you commit that God is scourging you for committing by giving you diabetes?" and on and on and on has certainly triggered in me a strength to survive, and fine-tuned my BS-o-meter to detect any theological garbage flung in my direction.
WG
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Bolshevik
..
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chockfull
Can we have another category that says:
"I'm alive no thanks to TWI" ???
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Bolshevik
That would be most people on earth.
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waysider
I think the context is concerned with people who had connections to New Knoxville, Ohio, not Patagonia or Bora Bora.
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Ham
I think I "get it".. those alive.. due to meeting of (un?)willing parents..
if it were *due* to da way international..
maybe they are the "undead"..
I see what you are thinking.. don't give them that much credit.. *life* is what it is..
it would make quite a movie though.. "I'm da way.. undead.."..
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waysider
Well, I think my point in starting this thread is that this phrase, or some variation of it, is really something that originated in the early days of The Way and found its way into mainstream Way vocabulary like a catch phrase. I believe there were probably a lot of people who automatically parroted this phrase/idea as if it pertained to some specific, personal event or circumstance. It became a sort of a declaration of indebtedness to the organization.
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Bolshevik
Like a war vet indebted to his nation
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Ham
my answer to this.. yes, and no..
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Ham
some of the humans here..
hmm..
well.. their existence(?) depended on a couple of non-descript wayfers finding themselves.. producing offspring..
the very few.. did your *life* depend on da way..
it's a legitimate question.
I'd be dead by now.. vs.. I'm da living dead now..
Personally.. I would not give *them* that much credit..
You would have hit this existence, one way or another..
It's not that too far off topic, I don't think. But I'll let it rest..
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